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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Jaguar on May 17, 2007, 06:54:00 am
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More proof that Americans are over-worked (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070516/us_nm/usa_vacation_dc)....except for all of you professional surfers. ;)
With that said, I'm off to my job that doesn't provide any paid vacation time though we are allowed :roll: to take off two weeks a year of unpaid time.
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There is no constitutional right to take a vacation. Stop crying and work to get a better job if you don't like what yours offers.
Unless you want to be like France, where:
-Unemployment rate hasn't fallen below 8 percent since 1981
-Also since 1981, France's per capita GDP declined from seventh in the world to 17th
-In the last five years, the French economy has been below the average of the 30 industrial economies that comprise the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
-In 2006, France's economic growth rate was the slowest of any nation in the European Union except Portugal.
-Since 1997, France's public debt rose faster than any other country in Western Europe
-Taxes on the average French worker now exceed 50 percent
Viva la France!
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Moreover, France's poverty rate remains one of the lowest in the world, at 6% (compared to 15% in the UK and 18% in the US).
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
There is no constitutional right to take a vacation. Stop crying and work to get a better job if you don't like what yours offers.
Unless you want to be like France, where:
-Unemployment rate hasn't fallen below 8 percent since 1981
-Also since 1981, France's per capita GDP declined from seventh in the world to 17th
-In the last five years, the French economy has been below the average of the 30 industrial economies that comprise the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
-In 2006, France's economic growth rate was the slowest of any nation in the European Union except Portugal.
-Since 1997, France's public debt rose faster than any other country in Western Europe
-Taxes on the average French worker now exceed 50 percent
Viva la France!
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Find a better job! :cool:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
With that said, I'm off to my job that doesn't provide any paid vacation time though we are allowed :roll: to take off two weeks a year of unpaid time.
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This is the one that blew my mind. The average Swede takes 25 sick days per year, on top of their incredibly liberal vacation benefits.
Smokers take eight days more sick leave per year
Published: 29th March 2007 11:41 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/6841/ (http://www.thelocal.se/6841/)
Smokers take on average nearly eight days more sick leave per year than non-smoking colleagues, according to a Swedish study published on Thursday in the British health journal Tobacco Control.
The study looked at data on absence for sickness among more than 14,000 workers between 1988 and 1991.
Across the sample, the average total of days taken as sick leave was 25.
Current smokers accounted for 29 percent of the sample, compared to 26 percent for former smokers and 45 percent who had never smoked.
Smokers took 34 days off per year on sick leave on average, "never" smokers took 20 days and former smokers took 25 days.
The gap between smokers and former/never smokers was reduced to just under eight days when factors such as socio-economic background, alcohol use and obesity were taken into account.
Sweden has the highest sickness-absence rate among industrialised countries.
According to the latest Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) figures, Sweden loses 25 working days per employee per year due to sickness, compared to nine in the United States.
Even so, the evidence points to smoking as having a clear impact on productivity beyond Sweden, the study says.
The author of the paper is Petter Lundborg, an economist at Free University Amsterdam in the Netherlands.
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The UK is around 15-17% and the US is around 12-13% (unless you have some more current figures).
In any case, France's figures are only low because of the wefare state that has wrecked their economy. I'll take a healthy economy that encourages growth any day over what they have.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Moreover, France's poverty rate remains one of the lowest in the world, at 6% (compared to 15% in the UK and 18% in the US).
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
There is no constitutional right to take a vacation. Stop crying and work to get a better job if you don't like what yours offers.
Unless you want to be like France, where:
-Unemployment rate hasn't fallen below 8 percent since 1981
-Also since 1981, France's per capita GDP declined from seventh in the world to 17th
-In the last five years, the French economy has been below the average of the 30 industrial economies that comprise the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
-In 2006, France's economic growth rate was the slowest of any nation in the European Union except Portugal.
-Since 1997, France's public debt rose faster than any other country in Western Europe
-Taxes on the average French worker now exceed 50 percent
Viva la France!
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Have you ever been to France? Their people seem so much happier, healthier, and attractive compared to here, even with the smoking and red meat.
And how is their economy "wrecked" if nobody is living in poverty?
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
The UK is around 15-17% and the US is around 12-13% (unless you have some more current figures).
In any case, France's figures are only low because of the wefare state that has wrecked their economy. I'll take a healthy economy that encourages growth any day over what they have.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Moreover, France's poverty rate remains one of the lowest in the world, at 6% (compared to 15% in the UK and 18% in the US).
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
There is no constitutional right to take a vacation. Stop crying and work to get a better job if you don't like what yours offers.
Unless you want to be like France, where:
-Unemployment rate hasn't fallen below 8 percent since 1981
-Also since 1981, France's per capita GDP declined from seventh in the world to 17th
-In the last five years, the French economy has been below the average of the 30 industrial economies that comprise the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
-In 2006, France's economic growth rate was the slowest of any nation in the European Union except Portugal.
-Since 1997, France's public debt rose faster than any other country in Western Europe
-Taxes on the average French worker now exceed 50 percent
Viva la France!
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i bet it has something to do with coastal elites
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i'm not going to gain any friends by pointing this out, but: it's "vive la france", not "viva". "viva" is spanish (and italian, and...)
i'm convinced you all really, really care, too.
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
And how is their economy "wrecked" if nobody is living in poverty?
Source?
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Yeah, but they also have a buttload of Moslems.
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For what? My original quote "Moreover..."?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_France)
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
And how is their economy "wrecked" if nobody is living in poverty?
Source? [/b]
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6.5% of 64 million people is 4.16 million people. That's a little different than "nobody."
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
For what? My original quote "Moreover..."?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_France)
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
And how is their economy "wrecked" if nobody is living in poverty?
Source? [/b]
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
i'm not going to gain any friends by pointing this out, but: it's "vive la france", not "viva". "viva" is spanish (and italian, and...)
i'm convinced you all really, really care, too.
hahah, thats exactly what i was going to point out. :) but i didnt want Jag to think i was being a prick.
anyway, i realize that the US is fucking great and all of their ideas are the best and their economy kicks soooo much ass, but really, for the middle class....and even the lower middle class, things are probably better in many other countries.
but americans are MOST famous for not being able to put themselves in anyone else's shoes...even other americans!
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Sorry, I didn't realize I was appearing on the McLaughlin Report. ;)
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
6.5% of 64 million people is 4.16 million people. That's a little different than "nobody."
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
For what? My original quote "Moreover..."?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_France)
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
And how is their economy "wrecked" if nobody is living in poverty?
Source? [/b]
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Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
There is no constitutional right to take a vacation. Stop crying and work to get a better job if you don't like what yours offers.
not all of us want to sell our souls to the government for a few measly vacation days! why do the sheep get all the good benes??
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Originally posted by le sonick:
but americans are MOST famous for not being able to put themselves in anyone else's shoes...even other americans!
very interesting observation. can't say i dissagree. i guess it's an extension of the social emphasis placed on individuality in this country.
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Happier? Is that why they have so many riots and car burnings? Protests and strikes? Is that why 53% voted for a conservative president who ran a campaign on changing the status quo? Healthier, maybe, but I wouldn't call the French "happier" overall. And I have no idea why you threw in attractive, like that has any relevance.
The poverty rate is not a good indicator of the overall economy of a nation. The poverty rate is low in France because of massive government spending on welfare, which in turn has helped slow their economy...see my original post in this thread, which breaks it down.
And no, I've never been, but I plan on it sometime in the next few years.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Have you ever been to France? Their people seem so much happier, healthier, and attractive compared to here, even with the smoking and red meat.
And how is their economy "wrecked" if nobody is living in poverty?
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Uh, except that as individuals, Americans give more to charity than any other nation on earth.
Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by le sonick:
but americans are MOST famous for not being able to put themselves in anyone else's shoes...even other americans!
very interesting observation. can't say i dissagree. i guess it's an extension of the social emphasis placed on individuality in this country. [/b]
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Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
Uh, except that as individuals, Americans give more to charity than any other nation on earth.
not surprising, since the US is the richest on earth and has a huge population. percentage of income given might be better grounds for bragging rights (then again, richer you get, the more disposable income you have to give away). but i'm certainly not knocking charitable giving in this country by individuals.
btw, source?
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And a source (http://gpr.hudson.org/files/publications/GlobalPhilanthropy.pdf) you shall have.
It's interesting to read this stuff:
The U.S. government gave about $20 billion in foreign aid in 2004, and Jimmy Carter, Bono and Angelina Jolie cried about it, but then privately in the same year, individual Americans gave another $24.2 billion.
After the 2004 tsunami, the U.S. government pledged approximately $900 million to relief efforts, but American individuals gave another $2 billion in food, clothing and cash.
Americans per capita individually give about three and a half times more money per year, than the French per capita, seven times more than the Germans and 14 times more than the Italians.
Just some stuff to think about before you make snobby, ignorant generalizations (le sonick) about Americans.
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Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
Just some stuff to think about before you make snobby, ignorant generalizations (le sonick) about Americans.
i've lived in this country for 13 years, sir....so snobby perhaps...ignorant, not a chance.
and for the record, your "Stop crying and work to get a better job if you don't like what yours offers." comment was fairly ignorant in its own right!
so, touche buddy!
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Oh, and I'm surprised this (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070514/lf_afp/lifestylefranceireland;_ylt=As3bUZaQYj7jtRENZaFiWkkDW7oF) wasn't posted yesterday, since it was all over the place:
French workers biggest whiners, Irish happiest: study
French workers are the world's biggest whiners, according to a study published Monday which said the Irish complain least about their lot.
Britons come second to their Gallic cousins in the moaning stakes, followed by Sweden, the United States and Australia. Japanese workers have the lowest morale, but don't complain so much.
The lowest levels of whining were found in the Netherlands, Thailand and Ireland, according to the study by the FDS research group.
"It is interesting to note that after France, Britain and Sweden, the world's biggest workplace whingers are Americans, despite their having by far the highest levels of income," said FDS chief Charlotte Cornish.
"Compare them to Thai workers: while real levels of income are more than eight times higher in the States, more workers in the US feel their pay is a problem than in Thailand," she added.
The study, entitled "What Workers Want, A Worldwide Study of Attitudes to Work and Work-Life Balance", draws on data from 14,000 employees in 23 countries.
They were notably asked about their satisfaction with issues including pay levels and their work-life balance, as well as average working hours.
In terms of worker morale, Dutch workers are the happiest, followed by their Thai and Irish counterparts. The lowest morale of all is found in Japan, followed by Germany, said the study.
The study's authors noted that rightwing French President-elect Nicolas Sarkozy shouldn't expect things to become happier anytime soon, as he prepares to shake up notoriously strike-prone France.
"The UK and US, with their marked competitive individualism and unequal wealth distribution, both appear towards the top of the world's list of whingiest workers," said Cornish.
"The French come out on top -- it seems unlikely that Nicolas Sarkozy's election and the likely shift to more Anglo-Saxon economic practices will make the workers in France any more happy with their lot," she added.
What was that, Rhett? French are happier?
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Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
And a source (http://gpr.hudson.org/files/publications/GlobalPhilanthropy.pdf) you shall have.
It's interesting to read this stuff:
The U.S. government gave about $20 billion in foreign aid in 2004, and Jimmy Carter, Bono and Angelina Jolie cried about it, but then privately in the same year, individual Americans gave another $24.2 billion.
After the 2004 tsunami, the U.S. government pledged approximately $900 million to relief efforts, but American individuals gave another $2 billion in food, clothing and cash.
Americans per capita individually give about three and a half times more money per year, than the French per capita, seven times more than the Germans and 14 times more than the Italians.
Just some stuff to think about before you make snobby, ignorant generalizations (le sonick) about Americans.
this data really shows NOTHING about the general caring of the us population. so, the richest country gave the most!!! nowhere in your americanized data does it say how many people contributed what money?
$2 billion in food, clothing and money? how do we know that $1.7 billion of that was donated by american companies and the wealthiest 1%? leaving the other 350 million people donated nickels and dimes.
i'm not saying thats the case, but simply this data really doesnt show jack-shit...but thanks for providing it!
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Originally posted by le sonick:
i've lived in this country for 13 years, sir....so snobby perhaps...ignorant, not a chance.
and for the record, your "Stop crying and work to get a better job if you don't like what yours offers." comment was fairly ignorant in its own right!
so, touche buddy! [/QB]
Your statement was highly ignorant of the actual facts about individual giving in America.
And working to get something better if you don't like it is kind of how things work here. It's not my fault you're some out of touch elitist who doesn't understand such things.
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Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
Originally posted by le sonick:
i've lived in this country for 13 years, sir....so snobby perhaps...ignorant, not a chance.
and for the record, your "Stop crying and work to get a better job if you don't like what yours offers." comment was fairly ignorant in its own right!
so, touche buddy! [/b]
Your statement was highly ignorant of the actual facts about individual giving in America.
And working to get something better if you don't like it is kind of how things work here. It's not my fault you're some out of touch elitist who doesn't understand such things. [/QB]
as i've already stated, your "actual facts" dont say patooey.
so what you're saying is basically that people who dislike their jobs but dont get new ones are lazy crybabies? just trying to get your point because apparently i missed it.
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Brandon is correct -- Americans give more, per capita and in total, than other nations (like 3x as much as Canadians, I believe). The American government, on the other hand, is way down the list.
If you want a source, just google per capita charity giving
You'll get lots of reports like the one below:
In an earlier report in Philanthropy, Tobin, Karp, and Weinberg write that, "a recent German study reports that on a per capita basis, American citizens contribute to charity nearly seven times as much as their German counterparts, and that about six times as many Americans as Germans do volunteer work.... Some 70 percent of U.S. households make charitable cash contributions...over half of all U.S. adults will volunteer an estimated 20 billion hours in charitable activities this year.... In short, American philanthropy is extraordinary by any world standard."
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You want more? A good resource on this topic is, "Who Really Cares (http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compassionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6917644-7237763?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179421251&sr=8-1)" by Arthur Brooks.
More findings:
-People at the lower end of the income scale give almost 30 percent more of their income than do those who make $1 million or more.
-The American working poor are, relative to their income, some of the most generous people in America today. The nonworking poor, howeverâ??those on public assistance instead of earning low wagesâ??give at lower levels than any other group. In other words, poverty does not discourage charity in America, but welfare does.
-24 of the top 25 states where people give an above average percent of their income were red states in the previous presidential election.
-Mississippi is one of the poorest states in the nation, but gives the most away.
-Conservatives give about 30 percent more than liberals, even though on average conservative-headed families make slightly less money.
-People who believe the government does not have a basic responsibility to take care of the people who can't take care of themselves are 27 percent more likely to give to charity.
-Religion is the single biggest predictor as to whether someone will be charitable. Religious people give to four times as much to charity, and not just to their own church but also to outside organizations and even explicitly non-religious charities.
Besides all of this, WHO CARES how many people contributed what money? I mean you're obviously off the mark when insinuate that Americans don't care, but even more obviously, if we're giving so much, SOMETHING is working, and it's working better than it is in Europe.
Originally posted by le sonick:
this data really shows NOTHING about the general caring of the us population. so, the richest country gave the most!!! nowhere in your americanized data does it say how many people contributed what money?
$2 billion in food, clothing and money? how do we know that $1.7 billion of that was donated by american companies and the wealthiest 1%? leaving the other 350 million people donated nickels and dimes.
i'm not saying thats the case, but simply this data really doesnt show jack-shit...but thanks for providing it! [/QB]
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Thanks, but when I want an opinion on a country on something as subjective as "healthier, happier, and more attractive (which to me is in large part a reflection of the first two), I'll start by asking someone who has actually been there (preferably lived there), as opposed to someone who is prfoota.
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
Happier? Is that why they have so many riots and car burnings? Protests and strikes? Is that why 53% voted for a conservative president who ran a campaign on changing the status quo? Healthier, maybe, but I wouldn't call the French "happier" overall. And I have no idea why you threw in attractive, like that has any relevance.
The poverty rate is not a good indicator of the overall economy of a nation. The poverty rate is low in France because of massive government spending on welfare, which in turn has helped slow their economy...see my original post in this thread, which breaks it down.
And no, I've never been, but I plan on it sometime in the next few years.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Have you ever been to France? Their people seem so much happier, healthier, and attractive compared to here, even with the smoking and red meat.
And how is their economy "wrecked" if nobody is living in poverty?
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Originally posted by le sonick:
so what you're saying is basically that people who dislike their jobs but dont get new ones are lazy crybabies? just trying to get your point because apparently i missed it. [/b]
I'm saying that if you don't like the benefits your job gives you, rather than whine about the government not forcing private businesses to give you vacation time, you should probably work harder to get to a job that gives you what you want.
Obviously, with the current state of the French economy, government mandated 30 day vacations and 35 hour work weeks do not work.
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It certainly didn't seem like a subjective argument when you used it to counter a point about poverty rates and the overall economy.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Thanks, but when I want an opinion on a country on something as subjective as "healthier, happier, and more attractive (which to me is in large part a reflection of the first two), I'll start by asking someone who has actually been there (preferably lived there), as opposed to someone who is prfoota.
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
More proof that Americans are over-worked (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070516/us_nm/usa_vacation_dc)
i think what's even more interesting is how the 40 hour work week has been completely abandoned by so many in the private sector ... seems like if you want to be upwardly mobile, you need to work 60+ hours a week
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oh no!!! proven wrong again by another government working yuppie! damnit. how can i keep being so stupid.
how about this one?
americans value money over time spent vacationing with loved ones.
discuss.
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Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
You want more? A good resource on this topic is, "Who Really Cares (http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compassionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6917644-7237763?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179421251&sr=8-1)" by Arthur Brooks.
god bless arthur brooks, a true american!
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good point Hoya....maybe its just living in DC but it constantly astounds me how so many people are completely defined by what they do, how hard they work, how little vacation they take.....I'm engaged in a more or less constant low level war of attrition with my boss because I like to take my vacations in 2 week chunks - you'd swear the world was about to end
I'm lucky that I generally only have to work 8 hour days and even with that I only get to see my kids for an hour or two each day after you factor in getting to and from work.......my neighborhood is filled with lawyers working 80 hour weeks and many of them have basically subcontracted out care of their kids to nannnies/au pairs etc
Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
More proof that Americans are over-worked (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070516/us_nm/usa_vacation_dc)
i think what's even more interesting is how the 40 hour work week has been completely abandoned by so many in the private sector ... seems like if you want to be upwardly mobile, you need to work 60+ hours a week [/b]
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Well sure, if you count church tithing as charity.
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
More findings:
-Conservatives give about 30 percent more than liberals, even though on average conservative-headed families make slightly less money.
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Originally posted by le sonick:
americans value money over time spent vacationing with loved ones.
While this may be the prevailing thought on the East Coast, it is certainly not on the west coast.
My working time on the East Coast can be described as live to work (it's all about where you went to school, who you work for now, etc.).
My working time on the West Coast can be described as work to live (it's all about what you do after work - work is just the means to get there).
I live in a state that is happier than France and has a larger economy than France by itself.
If the French had a better work ethic we wouldn't have had to bail them out of two World Wars. They can piss off.
Oh yeah, and our wine is better too. There, I said it.
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if you want whining, just mention 'france' around a republican
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yeah, and also foreign remittances from immigrants to folks back home I believe make up a huge portion of US charity care
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Well sure, if you count church tithing as charity.
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
More findings:
-Conservatives give about 30 percent more than liberals, even though on average conservative-headed families make slightly less money.
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Oh yeah, and our wine is better too. There, I said it.
Oh, it looks like you havent tried Chilean wine, specially a carmenere...mmm, thats a lot better than california or French wine...
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Originally posted by lacroix:
Oh yeah, and our wine is better too. There, I said it.
Oh, it looks like you havent tried Chilean wine, specially a carmenere...mmm, thats a lot better than california or French wine... [/b]
what would you pair a carmenere with to bring out it's full flavor? mass produced wine is mass produced wine. . .i'm just spoiled living here and being able to go to boutique and cult wineries where i can buy stuff that's not available in stores.
oh. . .california and chile have no match for a sauternes. . .
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Originally posted by lacroix:
Oh, it looks like you havent tried Chilean wine, specially a carmenere...mmm, thats a lot better than california or French wine...
What in me saying CA wine is better than French wine would make you say that I haven't tried Chilean wine?
Very poor logic.
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What in me saying CA wine is better than French wine would make you say that I haven't tried Chilean wine?
Very poor logic.
Have you?, what do you think?
A wine that impress me very much was a Washington State wine, dont remember right now where exactly was from or the vineyard, but it was excellent, body, flavour and the taste that left afterward...
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
oh. . .california and chile have no match for a sauternes. . .
If I wanted a sweet wine, I'd have a wine cooler or throw some vodka in the kool-aid.
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Originally posted by lacroix:
Have you?, what do you think?
Yes, and I find them some of the best bang for your buck wines on the market. You can find some great prices on good Chilean wines because they're building a reputation (and, especially in Northern CA, competing with a seriously crowded market).
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Originally posted by lacroix:
A wine that impress me very much was a Washington State wine, dont remember right now where exactly was from or the vineyard, but it was excellent, body, flavour and the taste that left afterward...
washington state makes a lovely riesling. . .you can just about choose any winery, and the riesling will be good. i like columbia winery's cellarmasters riesling, but chateau ste. michelle's "eroica" is also very good.
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I have heard that Arizona has lovely wines also, have you guys tried one of those?
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Yes, and I find them some of the best bang for your buck wines on the market. You can find some great prices on good Chilean wines because they're building a reputation (and, especially in Northern CA, competing with a seriously crowded market).
I like your point of view, next time you are in town let me invite you a glass of wine :D
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Originally posted by lacroix:
I have heard that Arizona has lovely wines also, have you guys tried one of those?
nope, but i've got a bottle of colorado cab franc at home.
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haha, a government working yuppie? first of all, my paychecks aren't signed by Uncle Sam; second of all, if by 'yuppie' you mean young upwardly mobile professional, I say thanks for the compliment (even though I actually live pretty modestly).
And Americans are free to value money over time spent vacationing with loved ones, or the other way around. It's all in what you want to do, as long as you come up with the means to do it. There isn't much point to you making another generalization like that.
Originally posted by le sonick:
oh no!!! proven wrong again by another government working yuppie! damnit. how can i keep being so stupid.
how about this one?
americans value money over time spent vacationing with loved ones.
discuss.
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
if you want whining, just mention 'france' around a republican
do republicans hate france?
and in case anyone got this from my posts, i was in no way defending france in any way. though i have my own unpopular (and apparently wrong) opinions on what makes a good country, France does not strike me as that country anyway!
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Remittances add an additional $47 billion that is not included in charity or individual aid statistics.
Tithes were counted, though they do not make up a majority of the giving. However, much of a tithe goes back into charity through the church, and those who tithe are also more likely to give to other charity outside of their church.
Originally posted by brennser:
yeah, and also foreign remittances from immigrants to folks back home I believe make up a huge portion of US charity care
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Well sure, if you count church tithing as charity.
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
More findings:
-Conservatives give about 30 percent more than liberals, even though on average conservative-headed families make slightly less money.
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Originally posted by lacroix:
I have heard that Arizona has lovely wines also, have you guys tried one of those?
I went wine tasting in Sedona once, but that was before Venerable turned me into a wine-o so I can't really comment on the quality of the wines.
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Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
haha, a government working yuppie? first of all, my paychecks aren't signed by Uncle Sam; second of all, if by 'yuppie' you mean young upwardly mobile professional, I say thanks for the compliment (even though I actually live pretty modestly).
And Americans are free to value money over time spent vacationing with loved ones, or the other way around. It's all in what you want to do, as long as you come up with the means to do it. There isn't much point to you making another generalization like that.
Originally posted by le sonick:
oh no!!! proven wrong again by another government working yuppie! damnit. how can i keep being so stupid.
how about this one?
americans value money over time spent vacationing with loved ones.
discuss.
[/b]
but i like hearing your infinite wisdom!!!
haha
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Originally posted by le sonick:
do republicans hate france?
Politically, everybody hates France.
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PS Republicans kind of like France at the moment thanks to the 53% that voted for Sarkozy over Royal.
PPS I am registered as a Republican, but I have NEVER jumped on any hate France bandwagon. I'm just pointing out the facts on how their economy isn't so hot, and I don't want that to be repeated here.
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Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:
I am registered as a Republican
NO!!!! what a shocker!! :eek:
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Originally posted by le sonick:
americans value money over time spent vacationing with loved ones.
at one of the law firms i worked at in d.c., i was chastised because i used all 20 days of vacation time during a year. it was a situation where an employee was given a set number of days that could be used for vacation and sick time, and the law firm was upset that i took it all as vacation.
karma got back at me with the next law firm. . i had to take time off without pay for my honeymoon (i only got 6 days off the first year, and my wedding took up 3 weeks).
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Originally posted by vansmack:
While this may be the prevailing thought on the East Coast, it is certainly not on the west coast.
My working time on the East Coast can be described as live to work (it's all about where you went to school, who you work for now, etc.).
My working time on the West Coast can be described as work to live (it's all about what you do after work - work is just the means to get there).
I live in a state that is happier than France and has a larger economy than France by itself.
If the French had a better work ethic we wouldn't have had to bail them out of two World Wars. They can piss off.
Oh yeah, and our wine is better too. There, I said it.
Did you only live in DC smackie? I felt like in DC it was all about work - 24/7.
Life in NYC for me is a totally different story. And it seems for most of my friends. Its all about working to live. I will add that most my friends aren't native New Yorkers and we come from all different countries and cities from around the world. A lot of us work 35 hour work weeks - yay! - and its all about what happens as soon as that clock hits 5:30.
Perhaps I still have mostly the cali girl in me, and always viewed work as just something i had to do to get by. :) i should add that im broke almost all the time here, because i do go out 24/7. and just like that - making plans to go see another band tonight! :D
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
not surprising, since the US is the richest on earth and has a huge population. percentage of income given might be better grounds for bragging rights (then again, richer you get, the more disposable income you have to give away). but i'm certainly not knocking charitable giving in this country by individuals.
There are many on this very bboard who wish you would move to France...and tuit suite too!
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Who Gives to Charity?
BY JOHN STOSSEL - JFS Productions, Inc.
December 7, 2006
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/44719 (http://www.nysun.com/article/44719)
Americans are pretty generous. Three-quarters of American families give to charity â?? and those who do, give an average of $1,800. Of course that means one-quarter of us don't give at all. What distinguishes those who give from those who don't? It turns out there are many myths about that.
To test them, ABC's "20/20" went to Sioux Falls, S.D., and to San Francisco. We asked the Salvation Army to set up buckets at their busiest locations in both cities. Which bucket would get more money? I'll get to that in a minute.
San Francisco and Sioux Falls are different in some important ways. Sioux Falls is small and rural, and more than half the people go to church every week.
San Francisco is a much bigger and richer city, and relatively few people attend church. It is also known as a very liberal place, and since liberals are said to "care more" about the poor, you might assume people in San Francisco would give a lot.
But the idea that liberals give more is a myth. Of the top 25 states where people give an above-average percentage of their income, all but one, Maryland, were red â?? conservative â?? states in the last presidential election.
"When you look at the data," says a professor at Syracuse University, Arthur Brooks, "it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more. And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."
Researching his book, "Who Really Cares" (arthurbrooks.net), Mr. Brooks found that the conservative/liberal difference goes beyond money:
"The people who give one thing tend to be the people who give everything in America. You find that people who believe it's the government's job to make incomes more equal, are far less likely to give their money away."
Conservatives are even 18% more likely to donate blood.
The second myth is that people with the most money are the most generous. But while the rich give more in total dollars, low-income people give almost 30% more as a share of their income.
"The most charitable people in America today are the working poor," Mr. Brooks says.
We saw that in Sioux Falls, S.D. The workers at the meat packing plant make about $35,000, yet the Sioux Falls United Way says it gets more contributions of over $500 from employees there than anywhere else.
Note that Mr. Brooks said the "working" poor. The non-working poor â?? people on welfare â?? are very different, even though they have the same income. The non-working poor don't give much at all.
What about the middle class? Well, while middle-income Americans are generous compared to people in other countries, when compared to both the rich and working poor in America, Mr. Brooks says, "They give less."
When asked why, many say, "I don't have enough money to spare." But it's telling that the working poor manage to give.
And the rich? What about America's 400 billionaires? I'll report on them in next week's column.
Finally, Mr. Brooks says one thing stands out as the biggest predictor of whether someone will be charitable: "their religious participation." Religious people are more likely to give to charity, and when they give, they give more money â?? four times as much.
But doesn't that giving just stay within the religion?
"No," says Mr. Brooks, "Religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly non-religious charities. Religious people give more blood; religious people give more to homeless people on the street."
And what happened in our little test? Well, even though people in Sioux Falls make, on average, half as much money as people in San Francisco, and even though the San Francisco location was much busier â?? three times as many people were within reach of the bucket â?? by the end of the second day, the Sioux Falls bucket held twice as much money.
Another myth bites the dust.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Oh yeah, and our wine is better too. There, I said it.
meh, not convinced myself. many high end reserve wines from CA are indeed outstanding. but mid-grade and table wines? i prefer french and italian. only talking reds, i rarely drink white.
Originally posted by Brandon Brendall, the thief:However, much of a tithe goes back into charity through the church
questionable assertion in my opinion. running a church, paying off loans, paying staff, etc eats up most of what goes into the basket in most churches on sunday. i'm sure mega-churches generate surpluses.
Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
There are many on this very bboard who wish you would move to France...and tuit suite too!
i can definitely think of two - one of them being me, i'd love to live in france. food is better, and i'm a rambling type. otherwise, your assertion that "many" wish this is a tad delusional in my opinion :)
while i have your attention, i'd like to point out that it's spelled "toute suite". this is the popular way of saying it, the grammatically correct form is "tout de suite". i'm convinced you really, really care, too.