930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: bellenseb on July 29, 2004, 10:05:00 am
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You couldn't make this stuff up. This reads like an Onion treatment of the Metro police.
Chewing Arrest (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22456-2004Jul28.html)
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Mouthful Gets Metro Passenger Handcuffs and Jail
By Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 29, 2004; Page A01
Stephanie Willett is a 45-year-old scientist for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency from Bowie whose skirmishes with the law had largely been limited to a couple of speeding tickets.
Until she was caught chewing inside a Metro station.
About 6:30 p.m. July 16, Willett was eating a PayDay candy bar while riding the escalator from 11th Street NW into the Metro Center Station. Metro Transit Police Officer Cherrail Curry-Hagler was riding up.
The police officer warned Willett to finish the candy before entering the station because eating or drinking in the Metro system is illegal.
Willett nodded, kept chewing the peanut-and-caramel bar and stuffed the last bit into her mouth before throwing the wrapper into the trash can near the station manager's kiosk, according to both Willett and Curry-Hagler.
Curry-Hagler turned around and followed Willett into the station. Moments after making a remark to the officer, Willett said, she was searched, handcuffed and arrested for chewing the last bite of her candy bar after she passed through the fare gates. She was released several hours later after paying a $10 fine, pending a hearing.
"We've been doing our best to crack down on people who are consuming food and beverages in our stations because we get so many complaints about it," said Lisa Farbstein, a Metro spokeswoman. "In this instance, the woman was given a warning, which she ignored, and she jammed the rest of the candy bar into her mouth and continued to chew."
Willett said she was being unfairly punished because she made fun of the police officer after Curry-Hagler issued a second warning before the arrest.
"Why don't you go and take care of some real crime?" Willett said she told the officer while still swallowing the PayDay bar as she rode a second escalator to catch her Orange Line train home.
The police officer ordered Willett to stop and produce identification. "I said, 'For what?' and kept walking," Willett said.
In a report, Curry-Hagler said she wanted to issue a citation for eating on the Metro but the PayDay lover refused to stop.
"Next thing I knew, she pushed me into the cement wall, calls for backup and puts handcuffs on me," Willett said.
She said Curry-Hagler patted her down, running her hands around Willett's bust, under her bra and around her waist. Two other officers appeared, and the three took Willett to a waiting police cruiser.
At the D.C. police 1st District headquarters, Willett said, she was locked in a cell with another person. At 9:30 p.m., after she paid a $10 fine, Willett was released to her husband.
"It was humiliating," said Willett, who is to appear in court in October. "It was a complete waste of taxpayers' money and the officers' time as well as mine. It was just about her trying to retaliate against me because I made a comment about how insignificant I thought the matter was."
"I understand the intent of them not wanting people to eat in the Metro," Willett said. "If anything, I was chewing in the Metro."
Farbstein said Willett violated the rules. "Chewing is eating," she said.
Sen. Leo E. Green (D-Prince George's) complained in writing to Metro Chief Executive Richard A. White. "They have better things to do than arrest someone for that," said Green, who has not received a response. "It just seemed way out of bounds."
Metro occasionally has come under fire for what some considered extreme enforcement of its no-eating rules. The best-known example was in 2000, when a transit police officer handcuffed a 12-year-old girl for eating a single french fry on a subway platform.
The incident catapulted Metro into the national spotlight, and talk radio hosts debated whether the agency had gone too far in its devotion to order. A federal judge later said the police were "foolish" to arrest the girl but ruled that Metro did not violate her constitutional rights.
The candy bar arrest follows several recent decisions by Metro that have angered passengers. Metro tried to run two-car trains late at night to save money, but the cars became very crowded. And the transit agency started requiring passengers to pay for parking with SmarTrip electronic fare cards but soon found it was running out of cards.
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Another example of the incompetence of the Metro system...
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the image i conjured was a woman standing outside a metro train-car with her mouth wrapped around the corner of the actual car...just gnawing on it.
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Now if they could just arrest the slow fat people that get in my wife's way when she's trying to hurry onto the train.
Or arrest the dumb fucks who stand on the left side of the escalator. Even when there's a fire in the station.
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Originally posted by LonnieBeale:
Another example of the incompetence of the Metro system...
The officer may have been a bit on the anal-retentive side, but how is this incompetence? The rules are clear and are posted everywhere. I wish they would enforce it more because the trains look like shit since they removed the trash cans from stations.
She shouldn't have been eating a shitty candy bar like PayDay anyhow.
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I have no sympathy for this woman. While it is ridiculous that this happened, at least she was warned.
One of the many reasons the DC Metrorail doesn't look a thing like NYC's.
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The fact that the Metro chief is named Richard WHITE probably indicated that Metro are racist.
And the fact that the senator from PG County is named Leo GREEN probably indicates that people from PG County are Martians.
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Where does it say that the offender is African American?
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
The fact that the Metro chief is named Richard WHITE probably indicated that Metro are racist.
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Originally posted by LonnieBeale:
Another example of the incompetence of the Metro system...
She shouldn't have been eating a shitty candy bar like PayDay anyhow. [/b]
I'll agree w/ that...but seriously, to arrest her? She was done w/ it. And why are ppl complaining about those that eat on the metro. I never see anyone eating on the metro. Anyhow, I have blood sugar issues so if I need to eat something, I'm gonna eat it when I need to.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Where does it say that the offender is African American?
There's a photo of the woman on the Post's website: <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I22838-2004Jul28" alt=" - " />
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Nice to see Rerun went and got a PHD after What's Happenin? went off the air...
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Where does it say that the offender is African American?
There's a photo of the woman on the Post's website: <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I22838-2004Jul28" alt=" - " /> [/b]
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The article says once she entered the station she was just chewing...shit...I was chewing gum in the train station this morning. I could have gone to jail!
Sure if you look at the exact letter of the law perhaps she broke it and she deserved the recieved punishment. But imo it's metro and the cops who arrested her that really look like idiots here.
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Ah, okay. In the article it didn't mention that.
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she got what she deserved. she did it after being told not to by a cop, come on. and then she talked back instead of just taking the ticket.
i once nicely advised a lady eating crackers that there was a metro cop a few feet away on the platform and she might get a ticket, so hide the food. she got all rude to me and made a big showing of stuffing the crackers in her face. so i ratted her out to the cop. he only gave her a warning. :confused:
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ReRun is no longer around...
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Nice to see Rerun went and got a PHD after What's Happenin? went off the air...
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Where does it say that the offender is African American?
There's a photo of the woman on the Post's website: <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I22838-2004Jul28" alt=" - " /> [/b]
[/b]
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Yeah right. You probably think the same thing about Jim Morrison and Elvis.
Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
ReRun is no longer around... Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Nice to see Rerun went and got a PHD after What's Happenin? went off the air...
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Where does it say that the offender is African American?
There's a photo of the woman on the Post's website: <img src="http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I22838-2004Jul28" alt=" - " /> [/b]
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She did something Illegal, then she mocked the officer. So she got we she deserved. She said this was "humiliating" to her. Well how does she think the officer felt when she was mocking her? I'm sure the officer felt humiliated also. So F#$k her, hopefully next time she won't say something stupid to law enforcement who are just doing their jobs.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Ah, okay. In the article it didn't mention that.
"Curry-Hagler turned around and followed Willett into the station. Moments after making a remark to the officer, Willett said, she was searched, handcuffed and arrested for chewing the last bite of her candy bar after she passed through the fare gates. She was released several hours later after paying a $10 fine, pending a hearing."
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The comment was about whether she was African American or not. I hadn't seen the article in the Post where there's a picture of her.
Originally posted by chaz:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Ah, okay. In the article it didn't mention that.
"Curry-Hagler turned around and followed Willett into the station. Moments after making a remark to the officer, Willett said, she was searched, handcuffed and arrested for chewing the last bite of her candy bar after she passed through the fare gates. She was released several hours later after paying a $10 fine, pending a hearing." [/b]
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
then she mocked the officer.
No, that wasn't a good thing to do...but c'mon, they could have let it go.
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Oh ok...since it was right under my post I thought...oh well you know.
Don't you people see how this incident has divided our fair city? I wish we could just go back to the way things were pre - 9/28.
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
The comment was about whether she was African American or not. I hadn't seen the article in the Post where there's a picture of her.
Originally posted by chaz:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Ah, okay. In the article it didn't mention that.
"Curry-Hagler turned around and followed Willett into the station. Moments after making a remark to the officer, Willett said, she was searched, handcuffed and arrested for chewing the last bite of her candy bar after she passed through the fare gates. She was released several hours later after paying a $10 fine, pending a hearing." [/b]
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Can someone please make the cops eat donuts joke already?
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http://store.uppitynegro.com/ (http://store.uppitynegro.com/)
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I've got to agree with those that feel she got what she deserved. She didn't only mock the officer, she refused to stop and produce ID. If she had she would have gotten a warning or ticket and that would have been the end of it. Instead she made rude remarks and ignored the officer. I bet she's one of the ones that writes into the Express and complains about people breaking the rules on the metro and there being no enforcement. Talk about having your cake and eating it too!
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I mouthed off to a couple of cops once. I got the shit kicked out of me. I have since refrained from mouthing off to cops.
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She was warned, continued to break the law and got arrested. What's the problem here? Anyway, she looks like she enjoys those Paydays a little too much if you ask me....and she's BLACK for crying out loud. This "African American" garbage is a joke...I'm willing to bet she's never set foot in Africa. What's wrong with being "black"? I just don't get it....until white's are "European Americans" then black people will be black. It's just silly political correctness dreamed up by Jesse Jackson most probably.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Or arrest the dumb fucks who stand on the left side of the escalator. Even when there's a fire in the station.
One of my pet peeves is locals who yell at tourists for standing to the left on those really short little escalators going down to the platform from the faregates. Unless a train is coming, calm the fuck down -- the whole escalator ride is 17 seconds. You might save 4 seconds by yelling and passing by. Now, the regular long escalators, that makes more sense. Though a polite "excuse me" always works when I use it...
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
she got what she deserved. she did it after being told not to by a cop, come on. and then she talked back instead of just taking the ticket.
Wait -- by my reading, she did exactly what the officer told her. She finished the bar (ie, threw any related trash away and had no food in her hands whatsoever) before entering the metro. This is the issue -- the possible waste from food products, right? What, the possibility that she might vomit is part of the equation? Anyone could vomit anytime, whether they have food in their mouths or not.
She finished the candy bar for all intent and purposes. She did NOT continue breaking the law, she did exactly as the officer asked her initially.
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Seems like the tourists are the ones who are in the wrong, not the locals.
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Or arrest the dumb fucks who stand on the left side of the escalator. Even when there's a fire in the station.
One of my pet peeves is locals who yell at tourists for standing to the left on those really short little escalators going down to the platform from the faregates. Unless a train is coming, calm the fuck down -- the whole escalator ride is 17 seconds. You might save 4 seconds by yelling and passing by. Now, the regular long escalators, that makes more sense. Though a polite "excuse me" always works when I use it... [/b]
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Is Rory going to be an American?
Originally posted by Bollocks:
What's wrong with being "black"? I just don't get it....until white's are "European Americans" then black people will be black.
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I must say I'm shocked at how many board members are siding with the cops on this. Yeah i know we need the police in our society and I do my best to respect them...but this story just brings out the rabble rouser in me. Payday lady mouthed off a bit, but in the end it seems like the reason the cops gave her such a hassle were as much (if not more) personal as they were legal. And I've got no tolerance for cops that allow the chip on thier shoulder to determine their actions.
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Originally posted by chaz:
but in the end it seems like the reason the cops gave her such a hassle were as much (if not more) personal as they were legal. And I've got no tolerance for cops that allow the chip on thier shoulder to determine their actions.
I'm w/ ya.
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The signs say no eating on the train or WITHIN ANY PART OF THE METRO SYSTEM (this includes the station part before the turnstyle)
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
Originally posted by J'Mal:
she got what she deserved. she did it after being told not to by a cop, come on. and then she talked back instead of just taking the ticket.
Wait -- by my reading, she did exactly what the officer told her. She finished the bar (ie, threw any related trash away and had no food in her hands whatsoever) before entering the metro. This is the issue -- the possible waste from food products, right? What, the possibility that she might vomit is part of the equation? Anyone could vomit anytime, whether they have food in their mouths or not.
She finished the candy bar for all intent and purposes. She did NOT continue breaking the law, she did exactly as the officer asked her initially. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB] The signs say no eating on the train or WITHIN ANY PART OF THE METRO SYSTEM (this includes the station part before the turnstyle)
But you dont actually see the signs till you get within the turnstyle.
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This whole thing smacks of the ridiculous "zero tolerance" policies in schools where kids are *expelled* for having a nail file or an aspirin in school.
Look, she obviously was finished with the candy bar. Unless she vomited in the station, the spirit of the law was *not* being violated. It's not like she was opening up a happy meal on the train. I think she expected a little discretion to be used and was shocked at how blind, context-free and idiotic the law enforcement was.
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I'm not saying the tourists are right, but why throw a fit over that particular scenario? If my point isn't logical to you, then we're at an impasse. When I see this situation, to me it's locals being annoying "I live here, you don't, get outta my way" assholes.
Note my parameters, only the short escalator and no train coming. It's not right and wrong, it's reasonable and shitty.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Seems like the tourists are the ones who are in the wrong, not the locals.
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Or arrest the dumb fucks who stand on the left side of the escalator. Even when there's a fire in the station.
One of my pet peeves is locals who yell at tourists for standing to the left on those really short little escalators going down to the platform from the faregates. Unless a train is coming, calm the fuck down -- the whole escalator ride is 17 seconds. You might save 4 seconds by yelling and passing by. Now, the regular long escalators, that makes more sense. Though a polite "excuse me" always works when I use it... [/b]
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Different people have differing levels of patience, I guess.
I myself, want them out of the way, no matter the size of the escalator. I yell, but I yell, "Excuse me, please." Often they are so off in la-la land, you have to politely yell just to get their attention.
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
I'm not saying the tourists are right, but why throw a fit over that particular scenario? If my point isn't logical to you, then we're at an impasse. When I see this situation, to me it's locals being annoying "I live here, you don't, get outta my way" assholes.
Note my parameters, only the short escalator and no train coming. It's not right and wrong, it's reasonable and shitty.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Seems like the tourists are the ones who are in the wrong, not the locals.
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Or arrest the dumb fucks who stand on the left side of the escalator. Even when there's a fire in the station.
One of my pet peeves is locals who yell at tourists for standing to the left on those really short little escalators going down to the platform from the faregates. Unless a train is coming, calm the fuck down -- the whole escalator ride is 17 seconds. You might save 4 seconds by yelling and passing by. Now, the regular long escalators, that makes more sense. Though a polite "excuse me" always works when I use it... [/b]
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When I said metro, I was referring to the station, not the train. She was on the escalator when the officer told her to "finish," insinuating he didn't consider her in the station yet. Otherwise he would have stopped her at the bottom of the escalator, right?
I think there should be regular mouth checks instituted; I'll bet there are definitely commuters on those trains with specks of sausage and wheaties left in there EVERY SINGLE MORNING. The chaos must be contained.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
The signs say no eating on the train or WITHIN ANY PART OF THE METRO SYSTEM (this includes the station part before the turnstyle)
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
Originally posted by J'Mal:
she got what she deserved. she did it after being told not to by a cop, come on. and then she talked back instead of just taking the ticket.
Wait -- by my reading, she did exactly what the officer told her. She finished the bar (ie, threw any related trash away and had no food in her hands whatsoever) before entering the metro. This is the issue -- the possible waste from food products, right? What, the possibility that she might vomit is part of the equation? Anyone could vomit anytime, whether they have food in their mouths or not.
She finished the candy bar for all intent and purposes. She did NOT continue breaking the law, she did exactly as the officer asked her initially. [/b]
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I have to wonder if the people defending the cops would support zero-tolerance jaywalking ticketing on empty side streets. I mean - it's against the law.
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Imaging descending the escalator every moring and Rhett there at the bottom doing mouth checks and making sure we all ride the escalator properely.
Rhett, were you a hall monitor in school?
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
I have to wonder if the people defending the cops would support zero-tolerance jaywalking ticketing on empty side streets. I mean - it's against the law.
Apples and peaches...the woman was given two warnings. She chose to talk back to the officer when she could have simply nodded her head, put the candy away and walked on. Sometimes, people need to know when it's appropriate to listen and not talk.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Often they are so off in la-la land, you have to politely yell just to get their attention.
They're on vacation & excited to be in the nation's capital, and are probably not expecting to be accosted using public transportation for a rule that is not universal. It's DC, they're waiting to get shot or mugged, not reprimanded for standing on the wrong side of the escalator.
It's true, I'm very patient with things like this. I think to myself that your life won't be better for yelling and adding 4 seconds to your wait on the platform.
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Originally posted by bellenseb:
[qb] She chose to talk back to the officer when she could have simply nodded her head, put the candy away and walked on. Sometimes, people need to know when it's appropriate to listen and not talk. [/b]
She couldn't put the candy away, it was already gone (in her mouth).
Though I agree that mouthing off was hugely unwise. Man, though, cops can send you over the edge, but you must keep it all inside and explode later with civilian friends...
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You prefer to think of it as 4 seconds out of our life, I prefer to think of it as depriving me of burning for calories... :)
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
You prefer to think of it as 4 seconds out of our life, I prefer to think of it as depriving me of burning for calories... :)
Touche. 7 calories, actually, when you include the yelling.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
You prefer to think of it as 4 seconds out of our life, I prefer to think of it as depriving me of burning for calories... :)
Too many PayDay's huh?
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In my dreams.
Originally posted by chaz:
Rhett, were you a hall monitor in school?
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I was a bus patrol.... :D
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Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Originally posted by bellenseb:
[qb] She chose to talk back to the officer when she could have simply nodded her head, put the candy away and walked on. Sometimes, people need to know when it's appropriate to listen and not talk. [/b]
Man, though, cops can send you over the edge, but you must keep it all inside and explode later with civilian friends... [/b]
We all say things in haste or regret, to officers, people on the street, or in traffic. Sometimes, not thinking before we spea can get us in trouble. She said what she did, unwisely. However, I'm guessing many of us would have mumbled, thought or said something similar if in the same situation. Or, as Bags said, held it in and complained about it here or to another.
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She chose to talk back to the officer when she could have simply nodded her head, put the candy away and walked on. Sometimes, people need to know when it's appropriate to listen and not talk. [/QB]
So you think it's ok to get arrested for talking back to a cop? Since when are they above the criticisms of people? They are public servants after all.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Is Rory going to be an American?
Originally posted by Bollocks:
What's wrong with being "black"? I just don't get it....until white's are "European Americans" then black people will be black.
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Rory is American, his passport says so. However, he's going to be Irish soon.......really soon!
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It almost seems like the cop was trying to trap her - saying "finish it", and then when she followed his instructions in a reasonable way, he proceeded to harass her. I would have been upset too. Was she supposed to spit out the bar? It's absurd. We need nuance in law enforcement.
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Originally posted by chaz:
So you think it's ok to get arrested for talking back to a cop? Since when are they above the criticisms of people? They are public servants after all.
Depending on the circumstances, I think the officer could make an arrest. But it would truly be a case-by-case situation. There's a lot to this story that is missing. What was her tone in making the remarks? Has she been warned previously or was she a first-time offender? Assuming she enters at this Metro station frequently, it's possible.
The problem with the Post article is that the officer's side of the story is not represented (yet). There's only a paragraph from a Metro Media Relations person.
Edited to add: The officer was also a woman (and given the name, I bet also black), so let's stop this "he did this to her" stuff.
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of course its not ok to get arrested for talking to a cop
BUT what I see most people saying is, like in every profession, there are a subgroup of cops who are assholes and abuse their badge - there are also some people who think that once they put a uniform on they are better than us - they also have guns
this was a trivial situation but the woman chose to be a dumbass and antagonize the cop - you gotta choose your battles in life - eat the fuckin candy bar and keep yer trap shut
Originally posted by chaz:
She chose to talk back to the officer when she could have simply nodded her head, put the candy away and walked on. Sometimes, people need to know when it's appropriate to listen and not talk. [/b]
So you think it's ok to get arrested for talking back to a cop? Since when are they above the criticisms of people? They are public servants after all. [/QB]
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mankie - you could probably get one for rory at before you guys even go back - I got one for Niamh at the embassy in DC in about 2 weeks
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Is Rory going to be an American?
Originally posted by Bollocks:
What's wrong with being "black"? I just don't get it....until white's are "European Americans" then black people will be black.
[/b]
Rory is American, his passport says so. However, he's going to be Irish soon.......really soon! [/b]
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Again, all this over a fuckin' shitty Payday!
<img src="http://student.plattsburgh.edu/zerr1442/PAYDAY.JPG" alt=" - " />
If you're going to get busted, at least chow down on a better candybar!
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I love payday bars. Maybe that's why I feel so strongly about this. That and the cops acted like a-holes!
Yeah I know the lady was just shooting herself in the foot by mouthing off....but I'm always dis-trusting of authority. I'm just wired that way, I guess.
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This whole thing has "Seinfeld" written all over it.
Yeah, 'member when Jerry was arrested for public urination in the parking garage?
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Originally posted by chaz:
So you think it's ok to get arrested for talking back to a cop? Since when are they above the criticisms of people? They are public servants after all.
I am also shocked at how many people are siding with the cops on this one.
It's not against the law to talk back to a cop. They are not above the law, they are subject to it just like everybody else. If I feel the need to tell them to do a better job, I will (continue to) do so.
Arresting someone for a $10 offense? Absolutely egregious. Restricting someone's freedom, probably the most highly valued aspect of American society, because of a $10 offense and mocking an officer - absolutely a civil suit in the waiting.
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
I think she expected a little discretion to be used and was shocked at how blind, context-free and idiotic the law enforcement was.
Well she probably coulda expected it until she opened her big pay day eating mouth to say something stupid. So since she was arrested, I'd say she was the idiotic one. I bet she was even more pissed when they didnt serve a pay day with her Jail meal.
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And they probably didn't even have cable on the tv in the jail cell.
Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Originally posted by bellenseb:
I think she expected a little discretion to be used and was shocked at how blind, context-free and idiotic the law enforcement was.
Well she probably coulda expected it until she opened her big pay day eating mouth to say something stupid. So since she was arrested, I'd say she was the idiotic one. I bet she was even more pissed when they didnt serve a pay day with her Jail meal. [/b]
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Arresting someone for a $10 offense? Absolutely egregious. Restricting someone's freedom, probably the most highly valued aspect of American society, because of a $10 offense and mocking an officer - absolutely a civil suit in the waiting.
Ahh, so suing someone because of one's own stupidity isn't egregious? I thought we would have moved beyond morons putting hot coffee between their leg-lawsuits by now.
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You there! Stop at once! I know that Payday bar is in here somewhere....We have ways of dealing with people like you....
<img src="http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/photos/hands_up+large.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Ahh, so suing someone because of one's own stupidity isn't egregious? I thought we would have moved beyond morons putting hot coffee between their leg-lawsuits by now.
Just show me the law that says she can be arrested for saying to a cop "Go fight some real crime."
I can assure that I will have no problems showing you where you can't be arrested without probable cause.
Was her speech stupid? Probably. Disrespectful and rude? absoutely. Against the law? not a chance.
Was her eating in the station a violation? Probably, though she was finishing up because the same cop told her too so the cop excused it in the first instance and all she did was abide. But was her offense an arrestible offense? Not in this country.
A civil suit here would not be ridiculous. I value my freedoms more than anything else I have. This arrest was moronic and egotistical move by a police officer, and while she may have violated a civic code, this cop likely violated a constitutional ammendment, if not 2 or 3.
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Vansmack for President!!!
Vansmack....What is your stance on the revoking of dildo priveledges for citizens of the state of Alabama?
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Didn't she refuse to show her ID? I'll bet there's some Patriot Act-based law that says if a Metro cop asks to see your ID you'd better show it or risk being arrested as a terrorist.
I can see it on FoxNews now: "PayDay Terrorist strikes on Metro: Are Your Children Safe?"
Bottom line: They're both idiots.
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Originally posted by Skeeter:
Didn't she refuse to show her ID? I'll bet there's some Patriot Act-based law that says if a Metro cop asks to see your ID you'd better show it or risk being arrested as a terrorist.
I think refusing to show your ID falls under the catch all of "refusing to follow an officer's command" or some such thing. Of course, this predates the Patriot Act.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I think refusing to show your ID falls under the catch all of "refusing to follow an officer's command" or some such thing. Of course, this predates the Patriot Act.
I'll go with this law which predates the Patriot Act as well:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
What's the probable cause here? "Why don't you go do some real police work?" - I'm guessing no.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Skeeter:
Didn't she refuse to show her ID? I'll bet there's some Patriot Act-based law that says if a Metro cop asks to see your ID you'd better show it or risk being arrested as a terrorist.
I think refusing to show your ID falls under the catch all of "refusing to follow an officer's command" or some such thing. Of course, this predates the Patriot Act. [/b]
please refer to Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of the State of Nevada (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/21june20041210/www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/03pdf/03-5554.pdf) recently issued by the Supreme Court.
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We suspended that one. Didn't you get the memo?
Originally posted by vansmack:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
What's the probable cause here? "Why don't you go do some real police work?" - I'm guessing no.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
We suspended that one. Didn't you get the memo?
I heard somewhere that it went with Brennan to his grave, but I thought that was all just a vicious rumor.
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Time to move his desk to the basement.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
We suspended that one. Didn't you get the memo?
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In addition to the Nevada case, I believe that there were a couple of cases in California and one in Arizona that defended the practice of requiring people to show ID when police request it.
Things will be much easier after we steal...oops...I mean win... the election. We are working to mandate the implantation of subdermal national identification chips that will allow the police to scan you with a UPC gun from a distance of 75 meters. The chips will interface with the Diebold® and the Nestle© databases to cross-reference any and all previous confectionary consumption violations.
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
We suspended that one. Didn't you get the memo?
I heard somewhere that it went with Brennan to his grave, but I thought that was all just a vicious rumor. [/b]
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We're going to need that stapler also.
mmmkay?
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Time to move his desk to the basement.
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I was in Paris 15 years ago, and cops randomly asked me to show id. I asked them for a reason, and they told me they didn't need one. I later read that in France they can throw you in jail if you don't have id and a certain amount of money on you.
I guess the Bush administration is trying to turn the US into fucking France.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
In addition to the Nevada case, I believe that there were a couple of cases in California and one in Arizona that defended the practice of requiring people to show ID when police request it.
You keep leaving out one really important part: folks had to show their ID when police had probable cause to request it.
Was that Swingline stapler you were looking for?
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<img src="http://cradle.brokenglass.com/blog/images/red_stapler.png" alt=" - " />
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Look at the curves on that thing. Yowza.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
You keep leaving out one really important part: folks had to show their ID when police had probable cause to request it.
She was being issued a warning for eating in the Metro system. Isn't that probable cause?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
She was being issued a warning for eating in the Metro system. Isn't that probable cause?
The probable cause had passed when the cop told her to finish it and she did. By abiding by what the cop asked her, there was no longer probable cause.
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Well I think it will be a sad day when people are no longer being Hassled by The Man
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WTOP interviewed (http://www.wtop.com/?sid=237272&nid=25&PHPSESSID=8ef944bbc01196ca5a18777ed286b950) Stephanie Willet, the woman arrested, this morning. Audio links also include an interview with the Metro Police Chief. And yes, she is meeting with a lawyer.
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Once You're Done Eating, Don't Even Think About Getting on Your Cell (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55325-2004Sep27.html)
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Once You're Done Eating, Don't Even Think About Getting on Your Cell (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55325-2004Sep27.html)
or reading that article.
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I'm not sure why so many people are afraid of registering for the Washington Post.
Between Metro and Cell User, a Disconnect
Officer Shoves, Arrests Pregnant Woman Over Loud Call
By Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 28, 2004; Page A01
Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police.
The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone.
Their verbal dispute quickly escalated, and Saoutis grabbed Aaron by the arm and pushed her to the ground. He handcuffed the 23-year-old woman, called for backup and took her to a cell where she was held for three hours before being released to her aunt. She was charged with two misdemeanors: "disorderly manner that disturbed the public peace" and resisting arrest.
Those are the facts on which both sides agree.
They interpret the events of Sept. 9 very differently.
Transit Police and some Metro officials say Saoutis was protecting the peace by removing a woman who had overstepped the boundaries of civil behavior because she was loudly cursing into her phone.
They say that cell phones have become just another instrument of loutish behavior in the public space and that they are fighting a dramatic deterioration of manners in the transit system.
"We need better enforcement to allow people to know we are serious and want to maintain the high-quality level of the system," said Robert J. Smith, chairman of the Metro board, adding that "ranting youth" have become a plague on the subway. "This isn't Montana. We live in a very dense region, and people are on top of each other all the time."
Smith, who refuses to carry a cell phone, said he thinks Metro riders need to use the devices with care. "We wouldn't allow someone to come into the U.S. Capitol Rotunda and shout obscenities into a cell phone," he said.
But Aaron and some defenders of free speech say the Transit Police are the ones who overstepped boundaries by making a crime out of conversation and pushing a pregnant woman to her knees. The incident took place out of doors and not in the confines of a rail car or bus, they note.
And they point to a string of other incidents, including the July arrest of a 45-year-old woman for chewing a PayDay candy bar and the 2000 arrest of a 12-year-old girl for eating a french fry, that are earning the Transit Police a national reputation as an agency itching to lock up riders.
"Technically, the police officer is right, but the result is wrong," said D.C. Council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1), who represents the city on the Metro board. "How do we prevent minor transgressions escalating into major problems? It's not what any of us want. We don't want pregnant women booked for loud cell phone conversations. We don't want 12-year-old girls in handcuffs for eating a single french fry. Whether it's training or guidance to our officers, we have to do something."
Johnny Barnes, executive director of the Washington area chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, called Aaron's arrest "troubling."
"There seems to be an unusual attention paid to activities of patrons," Barnes said. "One should be able to ride the Metro and exercise a range of rights without fear of intervention from Metro police."
Aaron, who lives in Silver Spring and works as a clerk at the Food and Drug Administration, said she was talking to her fiance on her cell phone as she walked toward the bus bay about 4:45 p.m. Sept. 9 to catch the Route C4 Metrobus.
"Our phone conversation had ended," she said. "I'm walking down the stairs and the transit cop said, 'You have to lower your voice, ma'am.' I said, 'You can't tell me how loud I can talk.' He said, 'I can arrest you,' and he grabbed my arm. I said, 'What are you doing? I'm pregnant! Oh, so you want to flex some muscle today?' He grabbed my hand, and we struggled."
Aaron acknowledged that she was loud on the phone but said she wasn't cursing and lobbed a profanity only after Saoutis grabbed her.
After her release that night, Aaron went to Holy Cross Hospital and was treated in the emergency room for a bruise she said was a result of Saoutis's pushing her to the ground and placing his knee on her upper back.
Saoutis, who is about to complete his first year on the job with the Transit Police, was not available for an interview yesterday, according to Deputy Chief Tim Gronau.
Gronau said his officer properly enforced the law and arrested Aaron because it was clear she wasn't taking his warning seriously.
"We're not either pro or negative cell phones," he said. "The issue is [that] the volume of her conversation, coupled with the language, is not conducive to socially accepted standards of behavior."
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People in Bowie are always eating candy bars. They love their sweet taste!
Originally posted by pollard:
Stephanie Willett is a 45-year-old scientist for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency from Bowie whose skirmishes with the law had largely been limited to a couple of speeding tickets.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I'm not sure why so many people are afraid of registering for the Washington Post.
it's not fear, it's lazyness...I love registering on new workstations...then when I'm logged on, it says "welcome, assmunch" or whatver other fake name I make up..huhuhuh
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Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I'm not sure why so many people are afraid of registering for the Washington Post.
it's not fear, it's lazyness...I love registering on new workstations...then when I'm logged on, it says "welcome, assmunch" or whatver other fake name I make up..huhuhuh [/b]
not really lazyness either. just dont feel the need to be a part of the Washington Post..
and i think its laziness.
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I have mentioned Bugmenot (http://www.bugmenot.com) before. It provides fake registration names for you.