930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: G.Love on July 28, 2003, 01:08:00 pm
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Hate to be one to gloat, but did an AMERICAN just win the Tour de France for the fifth time? An AMERICAN riding for the US POSTAL SERVICE team, no less, not a Brit riding for the Royal Mail team.
Where are all the Brit riders? - smoking their fags and working on their coronaries by sucking down their greasy fish and chips! Maybe Beckham can take up biking to save face for the Brits, then I can see the movie "Bike it Like Beckham" or "Beckham Away" - ride the bike you bloody Cutters!!! (ref. the movie Breaking Away)
You know if the shoe were on the other foot, you would be taking a swipe at the US....
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Its good when America wins everything. You are so gracious.
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Just trying to live up to the Ugly American stereotype!
*In my best Homer Simpson voice*
"Wooohoo! We're #1! We're #1! USA! USA! In your face!"
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Um, get better atheletes?
Originally posted by markie:
Its good when America wins everything. You are so gracious.
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More importantly, do the Brits really care about bicycle riding? I think NOT. We normally let the Italians and French enjoy the girlie sports. If there was a Brit rider though, I bet he had two balls in his shorts.
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That's nice Mankie, keep playing kickball in the back yard.
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its very difficult to become a professional raod cyclist in Britain. there is not enough infrastructure in the sport and not enough high profile local races. Therefore kids dont take it up early enough as a sport to become great at it.
Americans are naturally advantage over Britain having in Colorado, a high altitutude place to train.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
That's nice Mankie, keep playing kickball in the back yard.
Actually the Brits have back gardens...and you keep playing Tee-ball.
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Originally posted by markie:
Americans are naturally advantage over Britain having in Colorado, a high altitutude place to train.
Then why does one-knacker mail boy spend 6 months in Spain training?
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I was too busy swimming and playing soccer. I think my Pops would have preferred baseball though.
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Originally posted by markie:
Its good when America finally wins something. You are so gracious.
Yes indeed.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by markie:
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Then why does one-knacker mail boy spend 6 months in Spain training? [/b]
training, or "competing" in the classics?
you need to be based in europe once you are an established cyclist.
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Originally posted by markie:
Americans are naturally advantage over Britain having in Colorado, a high altitutude place to train.
The Belgians haven't done too badly (18 titles) and the highest point in Belgium is probably about 500 feet.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
[qb] ...and you keep playing Tee-ball. [/b]
and what's the matter with T-ball? Is there an equivalent for cricket to get the little ones interested at a young age?
PS play croquet in your garden all you want!
PSS One knacker has more balls than you and I will ever have!
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
The Belgians haven't done too badly (18 titles) and the highest point in Belgium is probably about 500 feet. [/QB][/QUOTE]
when was the last time a Belgian won? If altitutude trainings benefits were known at that point then he trained at altitide.
Merckx trained at altitude, but the whole training thing was so much less scientific back in those days. Back then you didnt train all year for one race, the tour. Hence Merckx won a lot of classice and the Vuelta and Giro and tour all in the same years.
The men to raise the bar in training professionalism are Greg Lemond and Miguel Indurain. But that probably just reflects and increased commercialisation of allsports, not just cycling, in the 80s.
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Markie is also forgetting the all powerful $$$$$$. Brit, and most European athletes for that matter, have to train before and after they go to work or school and then on weekends. They don't get the sponsorship money or the endorsment royalties which enables them to be able to train full time...then there's also the steroids of course.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Markie is also forgetting the all powerful $$$$$$. Brit, and most European athletes for that matter, have to train before and after they go to work or school and then on weekends. They don't get the sponsorship money or the endorsment royalties which enables them to be able to train full time...then there's also the steroids of course.
three cheers for capitalism and corporate sponsorhsip!
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Well a Dane won in '96 and an Irish guy in '87 (is there altitude in Ireland) and plenty of Dutch have placed.
You gotta feel sorry for Jan Ullrich, second place in four of the last six years.
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If only he didn't have to practice before and after school.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
You gotta feel sorry for Jan Ullrich, second place in four of the last six years.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Markie is also forgetting the all powerful $$$$$$. Brit, and most European athletes for that matter, have to train before and after they go to work or school and then on weekends. They don't get the sponsorship money or the endorsment royalties which enables them to be able to train full time...then there's also the steroids of course.
Armstrong has been tested more than any other athlete alive. It's the wops, krauts, and frogs who get pinched for juicing up.
And Europeans have a huge advantage in cycling sponsorship. It's really only since Armstrong has been so successful that sponsorship money has gone into the sport in the US.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Well a Dane won in '96 and an Irish guy in '87 (is there altitude in Ireland) and plenty of Dutch have placed.
all winners have trained at altitude since the 60s. Although the use of EPO (erythropoeitin) and blood doping has reduced its importance.
Thats why there is a 50% maximum hematocrit level (red blood cells)
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Originally posted by markie:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Well a Dane won in '96 and an Irish guy in '87 (is there altitude in Ireland) and plenty of Dutch have placed.
all winners have trained at altitude since the 60s. Although the use of EPO (erythropoeitin) and blood doping has reduced its importance.
Thats why there is a 50% maximum hematocrit level (red blood cells) [/b]
But not having a high altitude in your country is not a barrier to winning.
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Actually, I'm reading a book at the moment in which it addresses the training at altitude issue. Basically it's a load of bollocks. Yes you can train at altitude to get the body used to working efficiently with less oxygen by producing more red blood cells, but withing 72 hours of breathing at a lower attitude the body goes right back to were it was.
In fact, it can have the opposite effect than desired on many athletes, because you are unable to train as hard as you would at sea level so you can't push the body as much so the training is less effective.
Interesting...no?
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Originally posted by mankie:
Interesting...no?
What? The stuff about the oxygen? Or the fact that you're actually reading a book?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Armstrong has been tested more than any other athlete alive. It's the wops, krauts, and frogs who get pinched for juicing up.
I KNOW...I WAS BEING SARCASTIC.
And Europeans have a huge advantage in cycling sponsorship. It's really only since Armstrong has been so successful that sponsorship money has gone into the sport in the US.
WHICH IS WHY ARMSTRONG HAS BEEN ABLE TO TRAIN FULL TIME TO BECOME WINNER 5 YEARS RUNNING. THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT.
[/b]
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
But not having a high altitude in your country is not a barrier to winning.
It is a help though. Especially if as Mankie pointed out your training can only take place around work.
It helps get you to a higher level of fitness, at the start, which then gives you a leg up into a team and the drug taking and the fame and glory.
There have been plenty of very succesful Columbian cyclists, have their not?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
What? The stuff about the oxygen? Or the fact that you're actually reading a book?
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I actually have two books on the go at the moment...I'm not as stooopid as markie looks you know.
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Originally posted by mankie:
They don't get the sponsorship money or the endorsment royalties which enables them to be able to train full time...
isn't it interesting that the US Postal Service sponsors Armstrong, but yet, fiscally, they are always in the red which results in an increase to the cost of the postage stamp?
I figure they are paying for Armstrong and 7 other riders, plus the coaches and support crews, year round - including travel, lodging and food. I wonder what the cost of that is per year?
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WHICH IS WHY ARMSTRONG HAS BEEN ABLE TO TRAIN FULL TIME TO BECOME WINNER 5 YEARS RUNNING. THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT.
Europeans tend to be more into cycling -- there are clubs and races everywhere. Not so in the US. Moreover, the number of professional cyclists (i.e., those who cycle full-time) is much, much greater in Europe than in the US. And sponsorships are far more plentiful in Europe.
All the above is traditionally true. Only in the last 4-5 years, as Armstrong has been winning, has the US begun to catch up. Nonetheless, Armstrong notwithstanding, the Europeans still dominate the sport and remain better equipped (sponsorship money, etc...). So I don't think I proved your point.
He has won five years running because he has been the best cyclist five years running -- period.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
[QUOTE
He has won five years running because he has been the best cyclist five years running -- period.
You are forgetting the one big advantage he has...he doesn't have to worry about crushing his nuts on the seat! :D
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Originally posted by mankie:
72 hours of breathing at a lower attitude the body goes right back to were it was.
when I went cycling in Colorado and Calgary for 3 weeks I came back noticeably fitter than before.
If you keep training when you get back in the 72 hour period, well you can train harder than before which helps make you take a jump in fitness. Plus 72 hours is when it starts to go down, not goes down to its previous levels.
all professional endurance athletes train at altitude.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
[QUOTE
He has won five years running because he has been the best cyclist five years running -- period.
You are forgetting the one big advantage he has...he doesn't have to worry about crushing his nuts on the seat! :D [/b]
I read an article that said there is actually a lot of truth to the notion that his cancer helped him get where he is today. First, it caused him to slim down -- his weight had previously been a problem. Second, he could build back all his muscles specifically for cycling and endurance. And of course, there is the huge intangible of facing your own mortality and surviving.
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http://www.lancearmstrong.com/bio.html (http://www.lancearmstrong.com/bio.html)
he trained at altitude and was originally a triathlete. Such competitions are rarer in the UK. (((The US climate (in some states) makes it easier to train)))
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
cancer helped him get where he is today.
serious injury has seen many a rider come back much stronger...
laurent Jalabert and Marco Pantani came back after horrendous crashes and along break much better cyclists.
In addittion to your excellent points that time off may be recoverey time to muscles to fully heal.
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<img src="http://www.glossynews.com/artman/uploads/soccerteach.gif" alt=" - " />
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i just found out that there's a team in the spanish league with my last name. . .too bad my spanish never got to this advanced stage where i'd be able to read the page:
http://www.villarrealcf.es/ (http://www.villarrealcf.es/)
and there's a pitcher for the arizona diamondbacks with that last name too. . .trying to get my sister to get a jersey from him.
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There is an adult film producer/actor who shares my last name. I'll refrain from wanting his jersey.
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Amstrong is joining a reduced group of cyclists, Eddy Merckx from Belgium, Bernard Hinauld and Jacques Anquetil from France, and Miguel Indurain from Spain with 5 Tours de France. I wish the attention these cyclists got in the US was 10% of the attention Amstrong gets in Europe.
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Originally posted by Barcelona:
Amstrong is joining a reduced group of cyclists, Eddy Merckx from Belgium, Bernard Hinauld and Jacques Anquetil from France, and Miguel Indurain from Spain with 5 Tours de France. I wish the attention these cyclists got in the US was 10% of the attention Amstrong gets in Europe.
But they're not American so why would you expect Americans to give a rats arse about them?...come on Barcelona mate, you've lived here long enough now...you should know that.
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Well that eliminates Beckham.
Originally posted by mankie:
If there was a Brit rider though, I bet he had two balls in his shorts.
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Originally posted by G.Love:
isn't it interesting that the US Postal Service sponsors Armstrong, but yet, fiscally, they are always in the red which results in an increase to the cost of the postage stamp?
[/QB]
What is really amazing is that the US government, unlike Europe, expects the post office (and AMTRAK too!) to turn a profit each and every year. Maybe this expalins why a pullman compartment on AMTRAK for a family of three round-trip from New York to LA cost over $3500 ?
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Originally posted by The Bombay Doors:
Originally posted by G.Love:
isn't it interesting that the US Postal Service sponsors Armstrong, but yet, fiscally, they are always in the red which results in an increase to the cost of the postage stamp?
[/b]
What is really amazing is that the US government, unlike Europe, expects the post office (and AMTRAK too!) to turn a profit each and every year. Maybe this expalins why a pullman compartment on AMTRAK for a family of three round-trip from New York to LA cost over $3500 ? [/QB]
That is what they get for asking the government to consider them Performance Based Organizations (PBO's). If they didn't, then maybe they wouldn't be in that mess.