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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Frank Gallagher on August 24, 2005, 10:24:00 am
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Drug body to scrutinise Armstrong
The boss of the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) says the organisation is looking into the latest doping claims against cycling legend Lance Armstrong.
French paper L'Equipe claimed signs of EPO were found in samples of the seven-time Tour de France winner's urine from the 1999 race.
Armstrong has denied the claims but Wada president Dick Pound said: "It's a pretty serious story if it is true.
"We've not decided what we'd do because I've not looked at all the details."
Pound said Wada would not be able to make a judgement until it had seen all the evidence.
"We will look at the information available and then we will decide the best way to get as much light on this as possible," he said.
Tests on the samples from the 1999 race were carried out in 2004 because cycling's governing body did not start using a urine test for EPO until 2001, L'Equipe said.
Pound said the issue is a matter for the International Cycling Union (UCI) and USA Cycling, noting that Wada had not yet been formed when the samples were taken.
"But what is good for me is it's a lesson to anybody using drugs that we may not catch you on day one, but sooner or later, the truth will come out," said Pound.
"Now the riders involved have a serious responsibility to explain how it is that the substance got into the system."
Wada was launched in November of 1999, four months after the samples would have been taken from Armstrong during his first Tour de France triumph.
USA Cycling spokesman Andy Lee said the national governing body for the sport would need more information before saying anything.
"Right now we're not going to comment on it. We don't have any of the details," he said. "It's not our arena to comment on an ongoing investigation."
Armstrong says the L'Equipe article is part of a "witch-hunt".
He added: "I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance-enhancing drugs."
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Lies, all lies!!!!!!!!!
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cheaters, all cheaters
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
Lies, all lies!!!!!!!!!
Who? Armstrong? Well he has been hanging with old Hee-haw of the Whitehouse, the master of lies and deceit...
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Your just saying that because he's just another American dominating his sport. These lies wouldnt be coming out if it were a Eur-a-pee'in winning seven years in a row.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
These lies wouldnt be coming out if it were a Eur-a-pee'in winning seven years in a row.
but if they were , you would believe them....
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Haven't the French tried pinning this stuff on him several times before and nothing has ever been proven?
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
Your just saying that because he's just another American dominating his sport. These lies wouldnt be coming out if it were a Eur-a-pee'in winning seven years in a row.
Not at all.....I was saying "Say it aint so" because I am a huge fan of Lance Armstrong, but hate cheaters, and Tyler Hamilton has already broken my cycling heart.
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Le Monde is reporting that Markie sleeps in a hyobaric chamber.
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Yes you did, No I didn't, Yes you did, No I didn't...
Hell it was 1999! Like I am supposed to believe that a bottle of piss was stored all nice and safe for 6+ years, these french scientists/chemists now perform tests on the ANONYMOUS samples, they trace these samples back to any given individual (which just so happens to be the one person these very same people would just love to nail in such a scheme), and it is all proven fact. In this case I choose to believe its all a bunch of crap. Sour grapes.
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The Associated Press Friday, August 26, 2005
PARIS, France --
Lance Armstrong's record setting seventh Tour de France victory, along with his entire Tour de France legacy, may be tarnished by what could turn out to be one of the greatest sports scandals of all time.
Armstrong is being quizzed by French police after three banned substances were found in his South France hotel room while on vacation after winning the 2005 Tour de France.
The three substances found were toothpaste, deodorant, and soap, which have been banned by French authorities for over 75 years.
Armstrong's girlfriend, American rocker Sheryl Crowe, is quoted as saying "We use them every day in America, so we naturally thought they'd be ok throughout Europe."
Along with these three banned substances, French authorities also physically searched Armstrong and found several other interesting items that they had never seen before, including a backbone and a testicle.
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<img src="http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage06/1.gif" alt=" - " />
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
The Associated Press Friday, August 26, 2005
PARIS, France --
Lance Armstrong's record setting seventh Tour de France victory, along with his entire Tour de France legacy, may be tarnished by what could turn out to be one of the greatest sports scandals of all time.
Armstrong is being quizzed by French police after three banned substances were found in his South France hotel room while on vacation after winning the 2005 Tour de France.
The three substances found were toothpaste, deodorant, and soap, which have been banned by French authorities for over 75 years.
Armstrong's girlfriend, American rocker Sheryl Crowe, is quoted as saying "We use them every day in America, so we naturally thought they'd be ok throughout Europe."
Along with these three banned substances, French authorities also physically searched Armstrong and found several other interesting items that they had never seen before, including a backbone and a testicle.
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tyler was framed.
and now they'll try to do it to lance.
god bless 'em.
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Landis, Admitting Doping, Accuses Top U.S. Cyclists (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/sports/cycling/21landis.html?hp)
By JULIET MACUR and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT
VISALIA, Calif. ? After four years of maintaining his innocence about doping charges that ruined his reputation and caused him to be stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title, the American cyclist Floyd Landis has sent e-mail messages to several cycling officials in the United States and in Europe in which he admits using performance-enhancing drugs for most of his career.
Two of those officials said that Landis?s messages provided a detailed description of doping that began in 2002, Landis?s first year alongside then-teammate Lance Armstrong. Both were riding for the successful but now-defunct United States Postal Service team. The two officials who received the e-mail did not want their names published, citing ongoing investigations, including by federal authorities, into the content of the e-mail.
In the messages, which were first reported by The Wall Street Journal, Landis accused other top American cyclists on the Postal Service team, including Armstrong, of using performance-enhancing drugs and methods. Other cyclists named were current United States road racing national champion George Hincapie, three-time Tour of California champion Levi Leipheimer and five-time United States time trial champion David Zabriskie.
None of those riders, who are all competing at this week?s Tour of California, were available for comment Wednesday.
Jonathan Vaughters, team manager of Zabriskie?s Garmin-Transitions team, said that Zabriskie was upset after learning of Landis?s accusations late Wednesday.
?I don?t know what is in the head of Floyd Landis, what his motivations are, but I think Dave just wants to get on with this race,? Vaughters said of Zabriskie, who is in the overall lead of the Tour of California, with four stages to go. ?Dave can win this race. He can win this race clean, under any level of scrutiny.?
Steve Johnson, chief executive of USA Cycling and the main recipient of Landis?s e-mail messages, did not return several calls for this article on Wednesday.
Landis also did not return phone calls, but told ESPN.com that he had no documentation to prove most of his claims against his former teammates. ?I want to clear my conscience,? said Landis, who races with the lower level OUCH-Bahati Foundation Pro Cycling team. ?I don?t want to be part of the problem anymore.?
Landis provided detailed information about his own doping practices, saying he consistently used the blood-booster EPO to increase his endurance, testosterone, human growth hormone and blood transfusions.
He said he took female hormones and tried insulin once during the years he rode for the Postal Service and Swiss-based Phonak teams, according to ESPN.com. He spent $90,000 a year on his doping regimen, he said.
Landis said that some of his teammates on the Postal Service team were well aware of the doping regimen in the sport.
Two other Postal Service team members admitted to The New York Times in 2006 that they had used EPO while preparing for the Tour de France in 1999. Frankie Andreu, who is retired from racing, and a second rider who spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to jeopardize his career, both said they had used the drug while they were teammates with Armstrong in 1999.
Two more members of the 1999 team later tested positive for using banned substances. Tyler Hamilton tested positive for blood doping in 2004 and then retired from cycling last year after acknowledging that he used a banned steroidal substance. And Roberto Heras tested positive for EPO in 2005. In at least one of his messages to cycling officials, according to a person who received it, Landis said that he and Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France champion, had discussed the need to use blood transfusions to boost endurance. A new test for the synthetic blood-booster, EPO, had made doping more difficult.
Armstrong, who has been dogged by doping allegations throughout his career, has denied doping and has never officially tested positive. At the 1999 Tour, he failed a test for a corticosteroid, but produced a doctor?s note for it.
For Pat McQuaid, president of the International Cycling Union, Landis?s accusations do not taint Armstrong?s reputation one bit.
?I think Landis is in a very sad situation and I feel sorry for the guy because I don?t accept anything he says as true,? McQuaid said in a telephone interview on Thursday. ?This is a guy who has been condemned in court, who has stood up in court and stated that he never saw any doping in cycling. He?s written a book saying he won the Tour de France clean. Where does that leave his credibility? He has an agenda and is obviously out to seek revenge.?
McQuaid said he received Landis?s e-mail messages several weeks ago, but immediately discounted the accusations in them because they were ?purely allegations and no proof of anything.? He has since sent the messages to the cycling union?s legal department.
Federal authorities have spoken with Landis in recent weeks about the information in the e-mail, according to two people briefed on the matter.
Landis, who spent nearly two years and reportedly more than $2 million fighting the charges against him, has agreed to cooperate with the authorities and provide them with the same information he has provided anti-doping and cycling officials. The authorities are interested in whatever information Landis has about distributors of banned substances and new methods of doping being used by athletes.
Over the past month, Landis also has been cooperating with officials from the United States Anti-Doping Agency, providing them with details about the other cyclists and Armstrong, the people briefed on the matter said.
Jeff Novitzky, a federal agent who spearheaded the investigation into the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative steroids case, is involved in the investigation. It is not clear whether Landis has contacted him via e-mail or telephone.
Landis, who lives in California but grew up in rural Pennsylvania, won the inaugural running of the Tour of California, in 2006. That was several months before his improbable victory at the Tour de France, when he rode solo over a mountain pass to put himself into contention for the victory.
After winning the Tour, Landis tested positive for synthetic testosterone and was subsequently barred from the sport for two years after a very public, costly and caustic legal battle.
Landis had insisted he was innocent and wrote a book in 2007 titled, ?Positively False: The Real Story of How I Won the Tour de France.? His fans donated money for his defense. As recently as a few months ago, he was on ?Larry King Live? to discuss his case and emphasize his innocence.
On Thursday, the rest of the peloton is likely to be talking about it, too.
Philippe Maertens, the spokesman for Armstrong and Leipheimer?s RadioShack team, said Armstrong and team manager Johan Bruyneel would speak about the issue on Thursday morning before the Stage 5 start of the race.
In his e-mail messages to cycling officials, Landis also named team officials he alleged had been involved in doping.
Doping regimens were encouraged by some team officials, including Johan Bruyneel, the longtime Postal Service team manager and current head of Armstrong?s RadioShack team, Landis wrote, according to a person who received the e-mails. Landis also said that the former head of the Swiss-based Phonak team, Andy Rihs, also tolerated doping. Landis was a member of the Phonak squad when he won the 2006 Tour.
Rihs, who now owns BMC Racing based in the United States, issued a statement calling Landis?s allegations ?lies? and said, ?Neither I nor the management of the team knew that Floyd Landis was doped.?
Landis said that Bruyneel, his team manager on the Postal Service team, introduced him to the use of steroid patches, blood doping and human growth hormone, according to officials who received the e-mail. Landis also said that in 2003, after breaking his hip, he had stored bags of blood in Armstrong?s apartment in Girona, Spain. He said that his blood was stored in a refrigerator, along with bags of blood belonging to Hincapie and Armstrong.
Landis, in his e-mails to cycling officials, also recounted helping Leipheimer and Zabriskie use the blood-booster EPO before the Tour of California several years ago. Neither of those riders have ever tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug or method.
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cheaters, all cheaters
Good find.
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Slightly less surprising than Ricky Martin preferring dudes
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all i have to say about guys who ride bikes as a "sport" . . . where is that garbage truck?
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If this "scandal" leads to middle-aged men living out their Lance Armstrong fantasies finally hanging it up and putting away their spandex for good, then society will have benefited greatly.
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How anyone, for a millisecond, believed he wasn't doping all along is beyond me. It's a sport where it's pretty much common knowledge 90% of the racers are doping and one guy goes out -- after cancer -- and supposedly beats all these cheaters clean as a whistle, not once but 7 consecutive times? Absurd proposition.
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If this "scandal" leads to middle-aged men living out their Lance Armstrong fantasies finally hanging it up and putting away their spandex for good, then society will have benefited greatly.
yes, excellent idea! they shouldn't be biking, they should be driving!
::)
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the whole-lance-as-hero hype always made me feel a bit uneasy because:
How anyone, for a millisecond, believed he wasn't doping all along is beyond me. It's a sport where it's pretty much common knowledge 90% of the racers are doping and one guy goes out -- after cancer -- and supposedly beats all these cheaters clean as a whistle, not once but 7 consecutive times? Absurd proposition.
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If this "scandal" leads to middle-aged men living out their Lance Armstrong fantasies finally hanging it up and putting away their spandex for good, then society will have benefited greatly.
yes, excellent idea! they shouldn't be biking, they should be driving!
::)
(http://blog.photos2view.com/files/images/bike-crash.preview.jpg)
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If this "scandal" leads to middle-aged men living out their Lance Armstrong fantasies finally hanging it up and putting away their spandex for good, then society will have benefited greatly.
yes, excellent idea! they shouldn't be biking, they should be driving!
::)
you can ride a bike without dressing up like a douche...
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in baggy pants or a loose tracksuit that gets caught in the chain? over-sized shorts that flap in the wind? you might think they look like douches, your call, but there is a practical reason for the skin-tight clothing.
(no, i don't bike)
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I can tell you don't bike because if you did you'd know there are options other than what you describe.
I do bike, quite a lot, and I'll tell you that the practical reasons only apply to about 1 percent of all cyclists (actual racers and long-distance riders).
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Wouldn't some sort of athletic shorts, or even casual shorts, be the natural substitution here?
in baggy pants or a loose tracksuit that gets caught in the chain? over-sized shorts that flap in the wind? you might think they look like douches, your call, but there is a practical reason for the skin-tight clothing.
(no, i don't bike)
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in baggy pants or a loose tracksuit that gets caught in the chain? over-sized shorts that flap in the wind? you might think they look like douches, your call, but there is a practical reason for the skin-tight clothing.
(no, i don't bike)
If you road a mountain bike dressed like that you would get laughed off the trail. Road Bikers dress like douches. There is no real reason for it other than being a douche.
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in baggy pants or a loose tracksuit that gets caught in the chain? over-sized shorts that flap in the wind? you might think they look like douches, your call, but there is a practical reason for the skin-tight clothing.
(no, i don't bike)
If you road a mountain bike dressed like that you would get laughed off the trail. Road Bikers dress like douches. There is no real reason for it other than being a douche.
This debate is quickly starting to sound straight off of the 5th grade play ground. Thanks for the laughs.
"Road bikers are gay! Me and my mountain biker friends could beat you up!!"
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in baggy pants or a loose tracksuit that gets caught in the chain? over-sized shorts that flap in the wind? you might think they look like douches, your call, but there is a practical reason for the skin-tight clothing.
(no, i don't bike)
If you road a mountain bike dressed like that you would get laughed off the trail. Road Bikers dress like douches. There is no real reason for it other than being a douche.
This debate is quickly starting to sound straight off of the 5th grade play ground. Thanks for the laughs.
"Road bikers are gay! Me and my mountain biker friends could beat you up!!"
don't say gay . . . my bear friends and i (who also use proper sentence structures, by the way) will tear you apart.
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Okay, playing along with your 5th grade games... Walkie, do bears shit in the woods?
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in baggy pants or a loose tracksuit that gets caught in the chain? over-sized shorts that flap in the wind? you might think they look like douches, your call, but there is a practical reason for the skin-tight clothing.
(no, i don't bike)
If you road a mountain bike dressed like that you would get laughed off the trail. Road Bikers dress like douches. There is no real reason for it other than being a douche.
I think sweetcell is envisioning the alternative to spandex biker wear as this:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mf5CQj5DMec/St9wLZUPsYI/AAAAAAAAAJU/rbzQS1ROW6M/s400/epic-fail-baggy-pants-fail.jpg)
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Okay, playing along with your 5th grade games... Walkie, do bears shit in the woods?
after the last time when one of them used "pretty leaves" that turned out to be poison ivy as toilet paper . . . they most certainly do not.
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don't say gay
Do you find the term "ghey" more apt?
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don't say gay
Do you find the term "ghey" more apt?
i prefer the term gay, ghey, queer, etc. . . . as not meaning anything "negative." i know, i know; it's hard for a generation so absorbed with hate.
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I get your point, to a certain extent. Can you suggest a more appropriate term for a guy who walks around in spandex and shaves his legs?
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I get your point, to a certain extent. Can you suggest a more appropriate term for a guy who walks around in spandex and shaves his legs?
putz?
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I get your point, to a certain extent. Can you suggest a more appropriate term for a guy who walks around in spandex and shaves his legs?
Douchenozzle?
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I get your point, to a certain extent. Can you suggest a more appropriate term for a guy who walks around in spandex and shaves his legs?
seth hurwitz?
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I get your point, to a certain extent. Can you suggest a more appropriate term for a guy who walks around in spandex and shaves his legs?
seth hurwitz?
Sweetcell, you left everyone speechless. :D
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Contador fails Second Doping Test (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/sports/cycling/05cycling.html)
By JULIET MACUR
A test new to the antidoping movement was used for the first time at the Tour de France last summer, and now it appears that the three-time Tour winner Alberto Contador ? who tested positive for a banned drug at the race ? may have more explaining to do.
That new test detects a specific type of chemical, called a plasticizer, that is found in plastic IV bags. Evidence of that chemical in an athlete?s urine could mean the athlete has used a blood transfusion to boost endurance. The World Anti-Doping Agency bans blood transfusions or any intravenous infusions, except in a medical emergency.
A test performed on at least one of Contador?s urine samples from the Tour revealed levels of that chemical eight times higher than the minimum amount that signifies doping, according to a person with knowledge of the test results.
The International Cycling Union drug-testing chaperones took the urine sample from Contador on July 20, the eve of the Tour?s final rest day, said the person, who wanted to remain anonymous because of an agreement to keep the information confidential while Contador?s investigation is continuing.
The next day, as Contador announced last week, he tested positive for clenbuterol, a weight-loss and muscle-building drug. He claimed that failed test came from his consumption of tainted beef from Spain. Contador has denied ever doping and said he knew nothing of the latest incriminating test.
The cycling union has spent more than two months investigating Contador?s case, and it is receiving scientific help from the World Anti-Doping Agency as it determines how to proceed. Pat McQuaid, the cycling union?s president, did not return phone calls or e-mails for comment.
While there was already a validated test for blood doping with someone else?s blood, the new test breaks ground because it may be able to detect if an athlete has had a transfusion with his own blood.
Before, an athlete could remove his own blood, store it, then reinfuse it just before a sporting event to gain an edge without worrying about testing positive.
The test to detect plasticizers from IV bags has been around for more than a year in antidoping, but is not yet validated for use, so an athlete could easily question its validity in court. Still, the test could be used in conjunction with other facts to build a doping case, antidoping experts said.
?Even without a validated test, it could be looked at in a case-by-case basis,? Francesco Botré, the chief of the World Anti-Doping Agency-accredited laboratory in Rome, said. ?If someone has a very, very high level of plasticizers in the urine, it would be hard for that athlete to explain how that happened if not for doping. If the level is lower, it obviously would make it much harder, but it would still be possible to prove.?
The second failed test, at the least, adds to Contador?s woes.
A day before the Tour?s decisive mountain stage, he tested positive for clenbuterol, a drug that boosts metabolism but can also increase aerobic capacity and the ability to process oxygen. He faces a two-year ban and loss of his Tour title if convicted of a doping offense.
Contador, who said he was tested eight times in the Tour?s final week, failed the test for clenbuterol on July 21, one day after the failed plasticizer test. Though the levels of the drug found in his urine were ?very small,? according to the cycling union, doping rules say that any amount constitutes an offense.
Contador?s press agent, Jacinto Vidarte, said in a telephone interview on Monday that Contador ?has done nothing illegal? and denies receiving any blood transfusions.
?There has been no official confirmation at all,? Vidarte said, regarding a news report last week that Contador had failed the test for the plasticizer.
That report, from the German state-run television station ADR, suggested that Contador?s positive test result for clenbuterol probably occurred because Contador transfused his own blood on that day, and that the stored blood he had used already had clenbuterol in it.
Now, however, the failed test for clenbuterol and for the plasticizers appear to have occurred on different days.
Bernhard Kohl, the Austrian rider who was stripped of his third-place finish at the 2008 Tour for doping, said Monday that he was not surprised a top cyclist had tested positive for more than one banned thing.
?It?s impossible to win the Tour de France without doping,? said Kohl, who was in Leesburg, Va., to speak at the United States Anti-Doping Agency?s science conference. ?You can tell by looking at the speed of the race. Every year it has been about 40 kilometers per hour. It?s the same the year I raced, the year Floyd Landis won, this year. It shows riders are still doping.?
Kohl, who said he retired from the sport to avoid having to think about doping every day, has no specific knowledge of Contador?s case but said most of the top riders rely on transfusions of their own blood and of designer, undetectable drugs like different types of the blood-booster EPO.
?I was tested 200 times during my career, and 100 times I had drugs in my body,? he said. ?I was caught, but 99 other times, I wasn?t. Riders think they can get away with doping because most of the time they do. Even if there is a new test for blood doping, I?m not even sure it will scare riders into stopping. The problem is just that bad.?
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i think the real problem here . . . is that people care so much about people riding bikes, that it would become a sport and people think they have to take enhancements to do it. i can't wait until juggling makes it into the olympics, and "arm/hand/finger steroids become all the rage."
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Tainted meat.
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Apparently it's so.
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Walkie - No offense mate but you obviously know nothing about cycling. It's one of the ultimate team sports.
My wife had the same opinion as yourself until she forced herself to watch a couple of stages of the TDF and I explained what was going on. She is not exactly an addict, but has a great appreciation of the sport.
The fact that a whole team of highly trained and competive professional athletes would put themselves through so much punishment and effort simply for the glory of one is nothing short of amazing.
I lost interest during the height of the doping scandals but they have really begun to clean it up.
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what is a surprise is how people refused to accept for so long that lance was a doper
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Walkie - No offense mate but you obviously know nothing about cycling. It's one of the ultimate team sports.
My wife had the same opinion as yourself until she forced herself to watch a couple of stages of the TDF and I explained what was going on. She is not exactly an addict, but has a great appreciation of the sport.
The fact that a whole team of highly trained and competive professional athletes would put themselves through so much punishment and effort simply for the glory of one is nothing short of amazing.
I lost interest during the height of the doping scandals but they have really begun to clean it up.
no offense mate . . . but you are yelling at me for something i said two years ago.
it's a bike. aka, a toy for kids that adults turn into something way more serious than it should be.
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Not yelling, just defending a sport I really enjoy.
On the surface I can see how it just looks like a bunch of skinny blokes riding bicycles. In reality though, there's plenty of strategy and mind games happening within the Peleton, even between competing teams. (Let's work together and put team ***** out of contention so it's just down to our two teams) It's not just that last 1km sprint finish up for grabs.
Aren't balls of all shapes and sizes just childrens toys?
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Not yelling, just defending a sport I really enjoy.
On the surface I can see how it just looks like a bunch of skinny blokes riding bicycles. In reality though, there's plenty of strategy and mind games happening within the Peleton, even between competing teams. (Let's work together and put team ***** out of contention so it's just down to our two teams) It's not just that last 1km sprint finish up for grabs.
Aren't balls of all shapes and sizes just childrens toys?
peloton pelotudo.
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My guess is most of the top cyclists of his era were doing this, that it was common knowledge they were doping even among the powers that be.
So Lance is just their lee harvey oswald.
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Not yelling, just defending a sport I really enjoy.
On the surface I can see how it just looks like a bunch of skinny blokes riding bicycles. In reality though, there's plenty of strategy and mind games happening within the Peleton, even between competing teams. (Let's work together and put team ***** out of contention so it's just down to our two teams) It's not just that last 1km sprint finish up for grabs.
Aren't balls of all shapes and sizes just childrens toys?
was just joking about your yelling . . . but YES, balls are toys, too.
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My guess is most of the top cyclists of his era were doing this, that it was common knowledge they were doping even among the powers that be.
So Lance is just their lee harvey oswald.
No. LA is Custer. This was his last stand. Many have fallen before him.
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Not yelling, just defending a sport I really enjoy.
On the surface I can see how it just looks like a bunch of skinny blokes riding bicycles. In reality though, there's plenty of strategy and mind games happening within the Peleton, even between competing teams. (Let's work together and put team ***** out of contention so it's just down to our two teams) It's not just that last 1km sprint finish up for grabs.
Aren't balls of all shapes and sizes just childrens toys?
was just joking about your yelling . . . but YES, balls are toys, too.
...and not just for children!!!! ;)
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My guess is most of the top cyclists of his era were doing this, that it was common knowledge they were doping even among the powers that be.
So Lance is just their lee harvey oswald.
No. LA is Custer. This was his last stand. Many have fallen before him.
I know nothing of cycling. How pervasive was doping? Was it common knowledge among those involved in the sport (cyclists. officials)? Of these 7 titles they are stripping, how far down the leader board will they have to go until they get to someone who wasn't doping? Or were all the top cyclists of that time involved in it (whether proven or not another story...)?
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I think LA is the last main contender they nailed.
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I think LA is the last main contender they nailed.
I figured that...I guess what I'm asking is, how likely is it that many of the contenders were cheating as well and just never got caught? Lance was like the golden goose. You bust him and you can pretty much close the book and move on. One big fish worth a dozen little ones. You get the picture.
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If he had more balls, I think he would have fought these charges a little harder.
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Of these 7 titles they are stripping, how far down the leader board will they have to go until they get to someone who wasn't doping? Or were all the top cyclists of that time involved in it (whether proven or not another story...)?
Five cyclists stand to inherit Lance Armstrong?s seven Tour de France victories after anti-doping authorities said they would strip them from him. Three have served doping bans and one may be investigated.
Armstrong yesterday was banned from the sport of cycling for life after refusing to fight drug allegations by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, saying it was pointless to fight a ?witch hunt.?
Armstrong, 40, won the Tour de France every year from 1999 to 2005, a record for the sport?s most prestigious race. He survived testicular cancer early in his career, and created Livestrong, a charity that has raised more than $470 million for the fight against cancer, according to its website.
Germany?s Jan Ullrich, a winner of the Tour de France in 1997, finished second to Armstrong of the U.S. three times between 2000-2003. He was banned in February for two years and had results between 2005 and 2007 voided after being found guilty of blood doping.
Ullrich told Deutsche Presse-Agentur that he was ?proud? of his second places and was giving no thought to Armstrong losing his titles.
The Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne, Switzerland, said at the time that the German?s DNA was matched to blood bags seized by police in a 2006 anti-doping investigation in Spain. He had also served a six-month ban for testing positive for amphetamines in 2002, which he said came from taking drugs on a night out.
Alex Zuelle, a runner-up to Armstrong in 1999, was part of the Festina team thrown out of the 1998 Tour after its coach was caught with banned performance-enhancing substances. The Swiss rider was banned for seven months after admitting taking the performance-enhancing drug EPO.
Basso Ban
Two years after finishing second in 2005, Italy?s Ivan Basso confessed to being part of a blood-doping ring in Spain, Italy?s Olympic authority said at the time. He served a two-year ban in 2007 and 2008 for ?attempted doping? although he denied taking any.
Cycling News reported yesterday that the German national doping agency said it may open an investigation into whether three riders, including Germany?s 2004 second-place finisher Andreas Kloeden, used illegal doping or products.
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Ullrich also served a six-month ban for testing positive for amphetamines in 2002, which he said came from taking drugs on a night out.
Just give them to this guy simply because he likes to party.
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So...it's safe to say with a large number of people we are dealing in levels of guilt rather than actual guilt.
I say just vacate them. Or let him keep them.
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The man raced all those years. He was constantly tested. he never failed a single test. Now they go back and claim that someone said something to someone and swears that they saw someone else do something with someone. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. He was tested, all negative. That is proof enough for me. The organizations who go back now and strip medals are hollow, spineless, and weak at best. Leave the man alone. He passed your own test for all those years. Medals stripped or not, I consider him the seven time champ and anyone else selected to take his place are mere puppets of their little game of gotcha.
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The man raced all those years. He was constantly tested. he never failed a single test. Now they go back and claim that someone said something to someone and swears that they saw someone else do something with someone. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. He was tested, all negative. That is proof enough for me. The organizations who go back now and strip medals are hollow, spineless, and weak at best. Leave the man alone. He passed your own test for all those years. Medals stripped or not, I consider him the seven time champ and anyone else selected to take his place are mere puppets of their little game of gotcha.
There is no "gotcha" but dozens of people testifying he was doping. Its a coincidence? All these people have it in for him? WHY?
I agree 100% with keeping samples for future testing when anti-masking tests get better..
You'll see all those Jamaican runners also eventually be found out.
It is amazing the lengths people will go to to not see their hero taken down. "Its a persecution! Hey they were all cheating anyways!"
Lance Armstrong: a fraud.
And to answer James' statement the reason he is not fighting it is because he simply couldn't.. he was going to be found guilty so rather than go through with that he stopped fighting it. Why else would he have stopped? He had appealed to everyone he could. There was nothing else he could do. He would have been stripped anyways. This way he can say "Oh I'm tired of being persecuted!" whch is a load of baloney.
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I'm sorry but IMHO the tests speak for themselves. Who knows what all incentive people have. For all we know the agency paid those folks to say what they did. I am not at all saying that is what happened but he tested clean so I will believe the tests. Any good detective will tell you that an eye witness is actually one of the weakest forms of evidence available.
I 100% agree with you on the "everyone was doing it" argument being worthless. 100% that means nothing at all.
I do find it funny how people tend to pick and choose the idols they demonize though. Take baseball and Pete Rose / Barry Bonds. IMHO Bonds belongs in the HOF no questions asked but Rose should NEVER be in. Even if one believes Bonds should be out, there is absolutely no argument that supports Rose being in. He has been proven of and has acknowledged breaking a rule of baseball that in the rules expressly calls for a lifetime banishment. End of story no more discussion needed. He has absolutely ZERO respect for the game, never did, never will. This web site (http://www.peterosesucks.com) states it perfectly. Any parent who holds Rose out as a role model or as someone who plays baseball 'the way it should be played' should lose their kid. (Not really but it is damn close. Rose was and still is a total scum bag. Bonds has never been proven to have used anything. While many (including me) believe that it is, at the very least, highly probable that he used PEDs, he did not test positive. Benefit of the doubt in my case. Even if he did test positive, the rules do NOT call for a lifetime ban for use of PEDs. I believe a first offense is 50 games (am I right). So again IMHO Bonds absolutely belongs in the HOF. Rose never. But because everyone loves to demonize Binds and they adore Rose, a vast majority would believe the exact opposite.
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From what I gather, a lot of the people who said he did then got reduced sentences for their confirmed doping. This stuff happened years ago and is a waste of time and money instead of investigating what may be going on now.
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From what I gather, a lot of the people who said he did then got reduced sentences for their confirmed doping. This stuff happened years ago and is a waste of time and money instead of investigating what may be going on now.
The process started many many years ago. Should they stop now because he has been appealing for years?
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There are long and widespread reports that Lance has been paying off and bribing testing labs for years and using his PR machine to intimidate adn freeze out anyone who has talked about what he's done. He didn't quit out of fatigue, he quit because there's a prosecutor gathering more and more evidence against him.
Just because he says he never failed a test doesn't mean its true. People do lie and Lance is a liar and a bully. It doesn't exonerate him that others were doing it. He won those championships and then lovingly draped himself in his Livestrong group. Which is also kind of a sham. Its not like Livestrong is this wonderful group curing cancer or even doing anything remotely to assist in fighting cancer. Its a PR group that has collected enormous amounts of money, much of it which went to funding labs that are willing to give Lance a pass and bribing officials over and over.
I mean, what reason could biking possibly have for smearing the Michael Jordan of their sport? If this is a sham conviction, it's the most self-defeating campaign ever seen.
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I mean, what reason could biking possibly have for smearing the Michael Jordan of their sport? If this is a sham conviction, it's the most self-defeating campaign ever seen.
bingo.
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There are long and widespread reports that Lance has been paying off and bribing testing labs for years and using his PR machine to intimidate adn freeze out anyone who has talked about what he's done. He didn't quit out of fatigue, he quit because there's a prosecutor gathering more and more evidence against him.
Just because he says he never failed a test doesn't mean its true. People do lie and Lance is a liar and a bully. It doesn't exonerate him that others were doing it. He won those championships and then lovingly draped himself in his Livestrong group. Which is also kind of a sham. Its not like Livestrong is this wonderful group curing cancer or even doing anything remotely to assist in fighting cancer. Its a PR group that has collected enormous amounts of money, much of it which went to funding labs that are willing to give Lance a pass and bribing officials over and over.
I mean, what reason could biking possibly have for smearing the Michael Jordan of their sport? If this is a sham conviction, it's the most self-defeating campaign ever seen.
Not making any judgment on the validity/truth of said rumors, what you are saying boils down to 'they have been saying it so long it must be true'. This is how urban myths start and become so popular. However, it does not add any more (or less) validity to the underlying story.
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I think a common sense resolution to this fiasco is to simply draw a line under his 7 victories and declare nobody the winner during that period as those just behind him had a good chance of being dirty.....then move on. I doubt that will happen though.
I believe (and hope) pro cycling is now clean, because it's a great sport if you take the time to learn the politics and tactics that go between teams and individual riders during a race.
GO WIGG-O!
;D
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THere should definitely be no "winners" of those Tours...
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THere should definitely be no "winners" of those Tours...
GOT IT!!!!
Give them all participation trophies!!!!
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I mean, what reason could biking possibly have for smearing the Michael Jordan of their sport? If this is a sham conviction, it's the most self-defeating campaign ever seen.
Because for the Tour de France, it's not about the individual. There's a tremendous amount of National pride involved, and that's why certain countries have been pushing hard for a public flogging of Lance.
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I mean, what reason could biking possibly have for smearing the Michael Jordan of their sport? If this is a sham conviction, it's the most self-defeating campaign ever seen.
Because for the Tour de France, it's not about the individual. There's a tremendous amount of National pride involved, and that's why certain countries have been pushing hard for a public flogging of Lance.
Correctomundo!!!
Wiggins would be a good case in point. The French were not pleased that a Brit was wearing maillot jaune, but by the start of the final week they were actually rooting for the bloke, thanks to his honest and humble post stage interviews.
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I mean, what reason could biking possibly have for smearing the Michael Jordan of their sport? If this is a sham conviction, it's the most self-defeating campaign ever seen.
Because for the Tour de France, it's not about the individual. There's a tremendous amount of National pride involved, and that's why certain countries have been pushing hard for a public flogging of Lance.
But I thought it was a US agency that was involved...
Look people can come up with whatever excuses they want.. some people wouldn't believe anything at this point but there is plenty out there to lead one to believe that the guy was doping. If he hadn't, with the tens of millions in ad revenue he has now lost he'd be pretty silly not to keep fighting it. After all, its not like he's the one fighting it as much as his team of highly paid lawyers.
And before Lance began acting like a first class prick he was pretty well liked everywhere in spite of being American.
Maybe it is all made up but the latest story is that even Hincapie was willing to testify against him.
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girl look at that body . . . i work out.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lance-armstrong-stripped-of-his-seven-tour-de-france-titles.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lance-armstrong-stripped-of-his-seven-tour-de-france-titles.html)
RatBastard, still clinging to your hopes that despite mountain ranges of evidence and testimony to the contrary, that Lance is still innocent? Still standing on the deck of SS Romney as it slowly sinks below the surface?
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Nike sucks. Firing cheater Lance while they continue to line rapist Kobe and dog killer Vick's pockets is a travesty.
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that is a very good point.
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There are long and widespread reports that Lance has been paying off and bribing testing labs for years and using his PR machine to intimidate adn freeze out anyone who has talked about what he's done. He didn't quit out of fatigue, he quit because there's a prosecutor gathering more and more evidence against him.
Just because he says he never failed a test doesn't mean its true. People do lie and Lance is a liar and a bully. It doesn't exonerate him that others were doing it. He won those championships and then lovingly draped himself in his Livestrong group. Which is also kind of a sham. Its not like Livestrong is this wonderful group curing cancer or even doing anything remotely to assist in fighting cancer. Its a PR group that has collected enormous amounts of money, much of it which went to funding labs that are willing to give Lance a pass and bribing officials over and over.
I mean, what reason could biking possibly have for smearing the Michael Jordan of their sport? If this is a sham conviction, it's the most self-defeating campaign ever seen.
lance did fail drug tests. he tried to say his tests were tampered with even though the drug testing agency had no idea who they were testing. and they offered to let him have his urine tested somewhere else. and he told the one clean rider in the sport to get out of the sport because the guy talked about everyone else being on drugs.
people getting upset because some professional athelete's downfall is silly. They are just there to entertain. less important in the scheme of things than your postman or the guy cleaning your bathrooms at work.
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I think a common sense resolution to this fiasco is to simply draw a line under his 7 victories and declare nobody the winner during that period as those just behind him had a good chance of being dirty.....then move on. I doubt that will happen though.
I believe (and hope) pro cycling is now clean, because it's a great sport if you take the time to learn the politics and tactics that go between teams and individual riders during a race.
GO WIGG-O!
;D
pro cycling is not a great sport. all the teams make it no fun to watch. if it were every man for himself it might be interesting but as it is currently it is incredible boring to watch.
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I'm not upset... just think he's an asshole and a FRAUD.... ideally he would be in jail. He took a lot of people's money.. took a lot of people for a ride.
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Still, I bet he could beat you in a bike race.
I'm not upset... just think he's an asshole and a FRAUD.... ideally he would be in jail. He took a lot of people's money.. took a lot of people for a ride.
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Still, I bet he could beat you in a bike race.
I'm not upset... just think he's an asshole and a FRAUD.... ideally he would be in jail. He took a lot of people's money.. took a lot of people for a ride.
I should hope so.. haven't touched my bike in close to two years..
Lance is like Clemens... that insufferable arrogant Texas breed of American that makes me wish the Lone Star State had gone its own way...
So much of the shit in this country comes from there: Bush, Allen Stanford, Enron
You ever hear of a pyramid scheme? Somebody cheating? Usually they're from Texas.
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I only think it's sad because he's done alot to raise money for cancer research.
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I only think it's sad because he's done alot to raise money for cancer research.
So agree. Very sad he swindled so many out of their money.
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I've read multiple reports that plenty of Livestrong funds went toward buying off testing labs to ensure he never failed a test.
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Question: should I stop tracking my daily calories through their app? I don't want to be guilty by association...also I haven't run in like four days and crushed a Smoky BBQ Chicken pizza at Cosi today for lunch :(
I've read multiple reports that plenty of Livestrong funds went toward buying off testing labs to ensure he never failed a test.