930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: ggw on October 22, 2003, 01:39:00 am
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Suicide allegedly.
http://www.sweetadeline.net/ (http://www.sweetadeline.net/)
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From ElliottSmith.com (http://www.elliottsmith.com/)
Steven Paul (Elliott) Smith. August 6, 1969 - October 21, 2003.
Elliott Smith was born on August 6, 1969 in Omaha, Nebraska. Elliott spent his childhood near Dallas, Texas where he began his musical training at the age of nine, winning a local award for original composition at the age of ten.
Elliott relocated to Portland, Oregon as a Sophomore at Lincoln High School where he was achieved the rank of National Merit Scholar. During his time at Lincoln High School, Elliott joined the band "Stranger Than Fiction" in which he composed music and performed until his graduation in 1987.
Elliott later attended Hampshire College in Amherst, Massachusetts, where he majored in Philosophy and Political Science.
During his time at Hampshire, Elliott, known then as Elliott Stillwater Rotter, co-founded the band "A Murder of Crows". He later became a member of well know band "Heatmiser". It was during this time that Elliott began to release music as a solo artist.
During his lifetime, Elliott released five full-length albums as a solo artist as well as a number of singles. Elliott was nominated for an Academy Award for "Miss Misery", his musical contribution to the Academy Award winning movie, "Good Will Hunting".
At the time of his death, Elliott was recording his sixth album, "From A Basement on the Hill".
Elliott is survived by a host of family, friends and fans. :confused:
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The word so far is that he stabbed himself in the heart. Nothing official as of yet though. Quite sad. A real loss for all of us.
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np: XO
this is indeed a great lose. i was a bit late in getting into elliot smith and his songwriting talents will be missed.
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he battled addiction after addiction so he was not good off really ever so he probably couldn't take it any longer. it is sad, but man... that guy had it bad from the start.
big up's to him, he was a great songwriter.
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I can't find anything on the web about this, can anyone post a link?
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I'm devastated. Rest well, Elliott,
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Originally posted by dlcjr1775:
I can't find anything on the web about this, can anyone post a link?
http://pitchforkmedia.com/news/03-10/22.shtml (http://pitchforkmedia.com/news/03-10/22.shtml)
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That's really tragic. He will be missed. :(
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Real sad sad news. I'm definately a fan of his music....XO is the only record I have, but I have a few friends who are RABID fans. They surely will be seriously depressed over this. RIP.
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Wow, my brother just told me. I was wondering why KEXP just played a 6 song set of his stuff. Such a shame, I know he was having a hard time with drug addiction and I was really looking forward to seeing him do great things. Truely sad.
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i am heartbroken to know he will not continue to create his wonderful wonderful music. i saw him in charlottesville in 2000 and i wept thru the show because it was the most stunningly beautiful music i had ever heard. his voice was angelic. i will miss him greatly, as will everyone.
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http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1479869/20031022/smith_elliott.jhtml?headlines=true (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1479869/20031022/smith_elliott.jhtml?headlines=true)
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I think it's safe to say that this is one of those moments when I feel as though everything around me completely stops, I feel like the wind has been knocked out of me, and grief, anger, and sorrow override every other emotion in my mind. Elliott Smith did something for me which I think any truly great artist or musician does...he made me see beauty, he was there with me while I experienced happiness and joy and sadness...but he wrote songs that could have been a soundtrack to my life. When I was falling in love, "Figure 8" had come out and I took a trip to Montreal. It was one of the happiest times of my life and Elliott's music brings me right back to that moment of discovery and possibility. When my father died, I remember flying home to Chicago and listening to some of the stuff off "XO" and "Either/Or", bawling my eyes out, knowing that Elliott could easily understand loss and pain. And for me Elliott was never about just misery. When Elliott wrote a song, it was almost as if he was the first person that ever truly felt those certain kinds of emotions...his voice and music was so honest, so absolute, and so expressive. When I was 5 years old, the Beatles were my favorite band...and John Lennon died. I went to school, knowing full well that none of the other kids could understand why I was so sad. 23 years later I am right back to where I was when I was 5...I feel like the world around me continues on, but I cannot keep up today. One of the most talented souls I've ever known of has become an Ian Curtis. This is just one of those days where I have to stop and try to make sense of something that will NEVER make sense to me. What a loss.
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wow. what a loss. he was incredible.
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Aw, no! What sad, sad news. And what a loss to everyone. I am very sorry I never got to see him live.
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Originally posted by kurosawa-b/w:
Aw, no! What sad, sad news. And what a loss to everyone. I am very sorry I never got to see him live.
Now noone ever will again.....What ever will i do?
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All your sadness and sympathy should be directed to his family and friends. If in fact he did commit suicide then mission accomplished on his behalf.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I firmly believe that those who kill themselves don't deserve sympathy because they took a cowards way out with no consideration whatsoever for those they left behind.
Sorry, but I have my reasons for feeling strongly about the suicide issue.
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Well said, mankie. While I am sad he is gone I am really angry that he decided to go out like this. Still I'll miss the music he COULD have made.
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Of course I am angry too Mankie...simply put, it's not fair to anyone, most of all his family, friends, and loved ones. The selfish side of me as a fan says it's not fair to me too...but on a basic human level, the real tragedy is that another person has fallen victim to depression, and depression should be treated like a disease because that is what it is. Some of us are survivors of it, and we were fortunate to have medication and effective therapy. But no person deserves to suffer. And just because they weren't strong enough to beat the disease it also doesn't mean they deserve what they got. A tragedy is a tragedy...there are no winners here, just loss.
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Originally posted by bunnyman:
Of course I am angry too Mankie...simply put, it's not fair to anyone, most of all his family, friends, and loved ones. The selfish side of me as a fan says it's not fair to me too...but on a basic human level, the real tragedy is that another person has fallen victim to depression, and depression should be treated like a disease because that is what it is. Some of us are survivors of it, and we were fortunate to have medication and effective therapy. But no person deserves to suffer. And just because they weren't strong enough to beat the disease it also doesn't mean they deserve what they got. A tragedy is a tragedy...there are no winners here, just loss.
Okay, this is opening a can of worms but here goes;
I've been there, wanted out, planned to go out. The details are unimportant, but basically I changed my mind at the last minute when I came to the realization it's better I live the rest of my life in total misery than take my own life to end MY pain but leave my family in the same situation because of my selfish actions.
That's it...(changing subject)Arsenal lost last night,WOOOOOO-HOOOOOO!
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Mankie, I've been there too...and I'm real sorry to hear that you know what it's like. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. I find that even now I have good days and bad days, but fortunately that is the power of music...it can touch our lives in ways that we could have never imagined possible, it gives us the strength when we didn't know we had it in ourselves.
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Originally posted by mankie:
That's it...
I, for one, am glad you're still here Mank.
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Originally posted by mankie:
it's better I live the rest of my life in total misery
Ah, the trials and tribulations of a beautiful south fan.....
Did you ever think you would end up happy and have a job to make young boys so jealous?
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Very sad. Can't say I was a big fan of his work.. but heard some of it. It's always sad to me to see a person being overtaken by his demons and take his own life. :(
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Thanks smackie...me too! :D
Bunnyman, you're exactly right, after I decided I couldn't let my family down I relied heavily on music (and Boddingtons!) Glad you made the hard but right choice too by the way.
mar...Blankie, I sometimes actually feel guilty when I realize how great my life is these days when there's a million poor souls out there hurting like I was.
BTW we have the following cars right here in the showroom for our party tonight.
288 GTO, F40, F50 and Enzo
The likelyhood of seeing those cars together under the same roof is damn near impossible, but here they are.
We also have a Maserati Quattroporte, which is probably the most beautiful car I've ever seen, honestly.
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288 GTO, F40, F50 and Enzo
Care to let me know where you leave the keys?
Those cars are worth more than I will ever earn, what a bummer.
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Originally posted by BLANK:
288 GTO, F40, F50 and Enzo
Care to let me know where you leave the keys?
Those cars are worth more than I will ever earn, what a bummer.
Probably more than all the board members combined will ever earn, as long as you don't include GGW! ;)
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Probably more than all the board members combined will ever earn, as long as you don't include GGW!
Is GGW filthy rich or something? Does he own the 9:30 club? :cool:
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by mankie:
That's it...
I, for one, am glad you're still here Mank. [/b]
I'm glad your still her Mank also, if it werent for you then i would be the butt of all jokes when it comes to 80's music. ;)
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288 GTO? Wow...I think that's my fave to be honest!
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Originally posted by Guiny:
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by mankie:
That's it...
I, for one, am glad you're still here Mank. [/b]
I'm glad your still her Mank also, if it werent for you then i would be the butt of all jokes when it comes to 80's music. :D
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Don't expect me to get all sappy, old man.
How much would a Quattroporte set me back?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Don't expect me to get all sappy, old man.
How much would a Quattroporte set me back?
Just under $100k optioned out. $5k deposit will reserve one for you.....will that be cash, check or charge Mr. GGW?
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About 100K
Would you really trade in the S600?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0306_mas/ (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0306_mas/)
Oh and Mankie, do you really mean 280 gto, not 250?
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It's a beautiful car.....
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Originally posted by BLANK:
About 100K
Would you really trade in the S600?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0306_mas/ (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0306_mas/)
Oh and Mankie, do you really mean 280 gto, not 250?
Nope, I mean a 288 GTO
<img src="http://www.jeffchan.com/cars/concorso2001/ferrari-288-gto-red1.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Yes depression played a huge part but I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the trigger: his chemical addiction mainly heroin. You would think by now does drugs would be passé but I guess it's cool to become a cliché... I can't understand how people get into it.. have we learned nothing after Seattle, Britpop and Sid?
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Originally posted by Fico:
Yes depression played a huge part but I'm suprised nobody has mentioned the trigger: his chemical addiction mainly heroin. You would think by now does drugs would be passé but I guess it's cool to become a cliché... I can't understand how people get into it.. have we learned nothing after Seattle, Britpop and Sid?
Yer right...if not for the drugs E. Smith may very well still be among us, but...
I don't necessarily think everyone gets into drugs cuz they think they're 'cool' or whatever...sure they are sort of a fixture in pop culture to some degree and that certainly increases the prevalance in society....I think many get into them cuz they are depressed and at first the drugs help with feelingss of isolation, lonliness etc. And let's face it - they feel good. Of course the drugs stop working in this capacity after time and instead of self-medicating some sort of psychic pain you wind up feeding a bona-fide habit, which compounded with the pre-existing feelings of isolation and lonliness.....
You get the picture.
Drug abuse ( ie not in moderation) = bad
Depression and general untreated mental illness = bad
Drug abuse + untreated mental illness = powder keg ready to explode.
But back to your origional point, it is amazing folks get into them when we have so many examples like you said.
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Originally posted by chaz:
[[/qb]
Yer right...if not for the drugs E. Smith may very well still be among us, but...
I don't necessarily think everyone gets into drugs cuz they think they're 'cool' or whatever...sure they are sort of a fixture in pop culture to some degree and that certainly increases the prevalance in society....I think many get into them cuz they are depressed and at first the drugs help with feelingss of isolation, lonliness etc. And let's face it - they feel good. Of course the drugs stop working in this capacity after time and instead of self-medicating some sort of psychic pain you wind up feeding a bona-fide habit, which compounded with the pre-existing feelings of isolation and lonliness.....
You get the picture.
Drug abuse ( ie not in moderation) = bad
Depression and general untreated mental illness = bad
Drug abuse + untreated mental illness = powder keg ready to explode.
[/QB][/QUOTE] Well stated,I wholeheartedly concur.And for the record,kicking the habit is not an easy thing to do,and almost imposssible without love and much support of those close to the one addicted.
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It's hard for any of us who have never been adicted proper to ramble about getting clean and what it takes to come out of it, but I'm sure its really really hard..
but the point was how with all the bad examples people still get into it.. i.e. in Seattle you had Andy Wood lead singer of Mother Love Bone an epitomal band die of overdose..I'm sure after his death many people who never used heroin from the scene gave it a go.. some came out, some as Layne Staley and Kurt Cobain never did...
same with Britpop.. I finished reading an outstanding book called "The Last Party: Britpop, Blair and the demise of english rock"..I may be wrong about the title.. it documents extensively the british music scene... in bands like Elastica, Pulp & Suede among others heroin use was prominent and most of the people involved got into the habit out of it being the chic drug of the movement.. in 92' being in Camdentown doing heroin with britpop royalty was the thing to do... eventually the drug became the demise of many a bands..
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This is my first posting, and it is one that is moved by Elliott Smith's tragic death. I keep remembering his show at the Recher theatre a few years back with Granddaddy.
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I'm listening to Some Song right now, off the brilliant Needle in the Hay 7" (still my favorite Smith release). The odd thing about Smith for me, though, is that I don't consider myself to be a geniune, full-fledged fan...and yet I have some moments and some memories that are always going to be entwined with his songs...he was just that kind of musician.
Anyway, as I've been typing this, I've dropped the needle three times...and I'm still getting chills.
Some Song
It's a junkie dream makes you so uptight,
yeah it's halloween tonight and every night.
See you scratch your skin,
your sandpaper throat â??
you're a symphony, man, with one fucking note.
How they beat you up week after week,
and when you grow up you're going to be a freak.
Want a violent girl who's not scared of anything...
Help me kill my time,
'cause I'll never be fine.
Help me kill my time.
You went down to look at old Dallas town,
where you must be sick just to hang around.
Seen it on TV how to kill your man,
then like Gacy's scene a canvas in your hand.
You better call your mom, she's out looking for you
in the jail and the army and the hospital too.
But those people there couldn't do anything for you.
Help me kill my time,
'cause I'll never be fine.
Help me kill my time,
help me kill my time,
help me kill my time,
'cause I'll never be fine.
Help me kill my time.
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Originally posted by walkman:
Anyway, as I've been typing this, I've dropped the needle three times...
I assume you mean the needle on the record player.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Suicide allegedly.
Who? Perhaps I would give more of a damn if I'd ever heard of him? Sheb Wooley was more of a loss for me. Call me insensitive if you must.
<img src="http://www.weirdlinks.com/dailyweblog_files/liza_minelli_wedding.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
Sheb Wooley was more of a loss for me.
Who?
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Exactly (http://www.coldwellbanker.ca/scripts/cb/profile.asp?id=20370)
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DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT BELIEVE I HAVE THE TRUTH, ABSOLUTE OR OTHERWISE. I DO NOT INTEND TO IMPLY THAT MY OPINIONS THAT I EXPRESS IN THIS POST ON THE NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE NATURE OF OTHERS' COMMENTS EXTEND TO THE ESSENCE OF THOSE PEOPLE'S PERSONALITIES. I DO ASSUME THAT THERE IS EVEN ONE PERSON HERE WHO CARES VERY MUCH AT ALL WHAT MY OPINION IS.
i guess maybe i don't fit in here but a lot of times you guys seem really mean. i was, coincidentally, overdosing and then slicing up my arms with razors to the sounds of xo on the day elliot smith was stabbing himself.
it is just not as simple a question as that of the presence or nonpresence of "willpower" you imply by saying he chose a coward's way out. addiction to substance is one thing. addiction to several substances and the obviously serious psychological pathology present in elliot smith is something to sympathize with him about, rage at GOD about, and then make your peace with. but you don't betray his family and friends' pain by choosing to accept that you have not the background from which to say his choice was cowardly.
maybe suicide is a coward's way out. i obviously don't know. i don't want to be a coward. but i bet neither do you and yet it seems quite cowardly to me to pretend you're some ubercool, ultra experienced gent on a website to feel better about yourself.
it seems similarly cowardly to me to call it the coward's way out because you still have unresolved feelings about your own suicide attempts. if you've really been there and made the decision not to do it because of family and friends' pain, i can honestly say i've done something similar in my own circumstances and i applaud you. im glad you're alive. who's to say, however, that elliott wasn't on that precipice a billion times before. somehow you've gotten help. maybe he had to make that choice everyday. for whatever reason he was incapable of finding help compatible with his own situation. exhaustion, intoxication, and long-standing depression are debilitating by themselves, let alone in some sort of combination. Saying he was a coward seems at best a statement quite insensitive in its hastiness to assume surrounding circumstances.
as far as suicide in general, taking pills to sleep forever, jumping off a building, perhaps these i would more lengthily consider before saying circumstance determined cowardliness. stabbing yourself to death? pause for a moment. imagine that. that is a moment saturated with existential meaning. that's an action chosen, whether or not your inhibitions are debilitated by drugs or what have you, amidst a type of pain that reaches the kind of unconscious material spoken about by jung, freud, heidegger. What was the significance to the makeup of the human consciousness of the japanese art of killing yourself to AVOID cowardice. how the hell do we know?
i was in the hospital the day after elliott died explaining to my family and friends why i feel like i have no other choice than to bleed myself. it's not, for me, at least, a once in a lifetime choice spurred by some horrific event or moment of despair. it's an ongoing battle i fight with thoughts that i am desperately trying to master. thoughts which are the impulse for often unbearably painful emotions. the analogy to a faucet that i can turn on and off is far to simple for the choice i make when attempting suicide. furthermore, it's a catch 22 dealing with those i love dearly and, perhaps contrary to popular belief, much more than myself in many cases. after the bouts i've had with this situation, i still can't say that i can answer the question of whether my death or survival would least injur my family.
What truly is worse;
the conglomerate of pain and anxiety, self-doubt and desperation, anger and frustration they've felt in seeing me struggle for 23+ years with addiction and depression, all the while knowing me well enough to know i'm not callous, that i do love them, and that it's mostly because my thinking is fucked up and so not being able to fully hate me and write me off, seeing the struggle i fight to turn off feelings and intelligence and yet feeling powerless to translate the resources to control these thoughts and feelings which come so easily to them to me, seeing me vacillate between this totally helpless dependant woman and this hopeful competent woman who wants to help herself and heal the wounds she knows she's created so she can love them better and never knowing at which point the latter is truly in control so that they might breathe and say "she's alright"
OR
watching me make a morbid, horrible, disgusting choice that pains them to the extreme, and then having the freedom to decide for themselves whether it was right or wrong, and resolve themselves to it accordingly.
of course, of course, of course, i certainly wish the question never presented itself. i've certainly tried my hardest to, at best, make it stop, or at least, keep my struggles from those i love. it hasn't worked. i recognize that my efforts, no matter how sincere and persistent make me no less definitively a sinner. nevertheless, sinner is not synonymous with coward.
that i connected in a real way with almost every piece elliot composed does not tell me how alike or different i am from elliott smith. neither does it tell you. But i can say this: no one on a website who has read this, then heard my music, and then heard about my death would be in the position to make a statement so completely saturated with arrogance as "she took the coward's way out and is not the one who deserves sympathy." Everyone effected by Elliot Smith's suicide deserves sympathy, no matter their choices or how you percieve their control over the matter.
it may encourage some of you that i don't think i'll be coming on this 930 site for a while because i know everyone will either have mean things to say which pick apart little bits of this...treatise here i've written until it spirals out of logical control. or worse, nothing at all will be said. regardless of all this, please remember that while the outcomes are rarely as well publicized, talented, kind, often reasonable people who suffer terribly from depression and addiction everywhere you are. this includes internet fora. while opinions on the inconsequential are of course to be bandied about, in fact it's obviously encouraged. but consequentiality is relative. don't forget to connect your heart to your brain for that extra second and be compassionate in your expressions.
thanks if you even took the time to read this.
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rip m/
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Broadkat, are you alright? Seriously. I'm not making fun of you either. I know depression all too well! I also know how many, many people really don't understand it. That took a lot to bare your soul like that.
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Chill (http://koti.mbnet.fi/badbee/wavs/stress.wav) out
Maybe this soothing image will help:
<img src="http://www.busy-bees.com.au/graphics/products/7711%20puppy.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Or this one.....
<img src="http://drs.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=cats/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.avant-gardening.com/three%20cats%20at%20pond1.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Broadkat, I don't know you, but I found your input amazingly elucidating, thoughtful, complex and insightful. Like just about everyone, I've struggled with demons, and agree that it's far more complex than some on the board have exclaimed. Whatever the cause, such a soulful and intelligent man's death is devastating and something to be mourned. I, in fact, find it especially sad that his inner turmoil was so profound and deeply experienced that he found no way out of that but the violence he inflicted on himself.
Reach out to those who love you; though your pain will be a challenge for them, they love you, and we all have some sort of shit we need to work through.
Thought this story from today's NY Times was touching in its simplicity.
October 26, 2003
In Brooklyn, Musician Was Just Another Guy Named Smith
By MICHAEL BRICK
People come to New York to be found or to be lost. Elliott Smith came to Brooklyn for a little of both.
Mr. Smith, the singer and songwriter who was found dead of a stab wound, apparently self-inflicted, at his home in Los Angeles on Tuesday, achieved fame during his years in Brooklyn, but people who knew him remember him as someone who did not seek attention.
Mr. Smith, who died at age 34, would spend late nights and early mornings at O'Connor's, a bar on Fifth Avenue in Park Slope, where he would sit in a booth, quietly playing cribbage or composing music.
Even after he became a known figure among musicians and club owners in New York City and in the broader segment of the music industry devoted to angst-filled pop, Mr. Smith sought anonymity.
"In the course of talking to him, I figured out that he was Elliott Smith," said Michael Priggen, a former bartender at O'Connor's.
Mr. Smith, who was born in Omaha and grew up around Dallas and Portland, Ore., lived in Brooklyn in the late 1990's. Then, the section of Park Slope that he favored was full of bodegas and car service dispatchers.
He said in interviews and, less directly, in his songs, that he struggled with addictions to drugs and alcohol during his years in Brooklyn. On his first major-label album, "XO," released in 1998, he sang:
"So I wait for the F train, and connect through a friend of mine to a yesterday dream, 'cause I'll have to be high to drag the sunset down."
But it was during his Brooklyn years, too, that he received the offer from the director Gus Van Sant to compose songs for the film "Good Will Hunting," a job that would bring him a broader audience.
"I spend a lot of my time in bars in Brooklyn, where I now live," Mr. Smith said in 1998 to the online magazine Muse, based in Dublin. "It's a good place to write and draw inspiration for songs. I like observing people and faces and how people interact in conversation with each other. Bars are good also because you get the chance to observe all this stuff and no one will take any notice of me. I fit right in â?? just another scruffy person in the corner."
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It would seem there are a few candidates on the bboard who could use a little Proloxil. (http://www.astonishedhead.com/images/OVOID.swf) ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ Seriously.
<img src="http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~hhile/gfx/prozac.gif" alt=" - " />
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Broadkat, I certainly hope you don't imagine that ALL of us are uncaring, mean-spirited people. I hope that you are at least lurking so you can read this message...please, hang in there. As someone that still copes with depression, all I can say is that you should never lose faith in yourself. I have been in your shoes...and it's really difficult to figure out how one goes on. But please don't give up just yet. For me it was a combination of medication and therapy that helped...so I just hope you know that people ARE NOT going to judge you or belittle you just because you're going through a rough time. Hang in there...and don't disappear from the board. If anything, tell us more about your favorite songs of Elliott's and what they mean to you. One of mine is "Everything Reminds Me of Her"...it gives me chills every time I listen to it. But pretty much all of "Figure 8" has never really left rotation in my CD player since July of 2000. It still remains some of his best work, IMO.
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okay, so i've calmed down a bit and some people have said some really nice things and as always katwoman has egg on her face.
i was, upon reflection, trying to imply that some of you were mean, though it's embarrassing to say it. this was done as my own knee-jerk reaction to to a constant fear of rejection and isolation which had nothing to do with any of you but which i transferred to you nonetheless. i don't know any of you in person. At best, you've been kind, helpful, wonderful, knowledgeable, smartalecks. i'm okay, you're okay....okay?
i guess i just needed to vent, elliott's death was raw and stinging, and here i was. so thanks for responding so kindly. i'm sorry if i came off as either damning or desparate for attention, but i guess in a real sense i was feeling a little of both, of/ from people in general. i had (obviously)a bad week in which elliott's death (obviously)played some sort of existential-phenomenological part. i feel dumb for the post and probably deserve that feeling, but I am not going to be dumber by depriving you all of my constant annoyances. i will feel the fear and do it anyway. ;) thanks for the sentiments of all flavors.
I will also try to keep posts a little shorter from now on, now that you all know my life story, though.
--you once talked to me about love
and you painted pictures of
a never-never land.
i could have gone to that place
but i didn't understand
i didn't understand
i didn't understand---
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Sure cure (http://www.people.virginia.edu/~trm7k/animal.wav) for blues
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Not to take ggw's place as the epitomal jerk (since Rhett and his missus are now gone)... but for such a small group of people there really are a lot of you out there with serious headfucks going about... again, I do not want to be insensitive to all you out there dealing with issues but I guess I'll have to watch what I say in here as one snotty remark (it would seem) can drive some of you off the cliff... scary.. this is the only board I post in but I guess there's a lot of "everything" in the cyberworld...
Hell, I was gonna spark some sexual innuendo with Samantha but her ex-boyfriend (who's a few fries short of a happy meal according to Samantha) may be lurking so I don't wanna joke and have this guy go over to her house and chop her into pieces... what would mankie do?
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Originally posted by Fico:
Not to take ggw's place as the epitomal jerk ... but for such a small group of people there really are a lot of you out there with serious headfucks going about... again, I do not want to be insensitive to all you out there dealing with issues but I guess I'll have to watch what I say in here as one snotty remark (it would seem) can drive some of you off the cliff...
hey man, do what you want, but yeah i might get sensitive if say that people who admit they have depression who are posting on a thread IN BEREAVEMENT OF A SUICIDE that they have "serious headfucks" .... saying you don't mean to be insensitive doesnt negate the fact that it is pretty objectively insensitive.
but no one's barring your brilliant and biting or even baldly insensitive wit, on this or any other thread, as far as i know. i do, however, reserve the reciprocal right to respond to it anyway I want, like, for example, by saying, "fuck you".
"but hey, no offense, dude."
ps -- if writing a long explanation of something = driving off a cliff, call me the wiley fucking coyote.
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Originally posted by Fico:
epitomal
Fico, meet Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epitomal).
Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epitomal), meet Fico.
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Originally posted by broadkat:
hey man, do what you want, but yeah i might get sensitive if you say, say people who admit they have depression who are posting on a thread ABOUT SUICIDE and in bereavement that they have "serious headfucks"....that's just alittle contradictory. but i'm not mad. say what you want. sex up who you want. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I guess I'm not up to date on cyber etiquette... to me it's just pretty weird the way people here seem to open up to strangers... and from what I've seen happen here things easily backfire... take Rhett for example..he came in here boasting about being a sexual libertine and what not.. when his own comments started getting back at him he couldn't take it... i think it's great to share your feelings, im just not sure if sharing it with everyone is a good idea...some people might use your confessions to their own interests... I am convinced there are sick people in here who would take someone's comment on this board and play it up as a "connection" to someone else just to get on their pants or something like that... cos yes, if you spend your days and specially your weekends socializing through this place you've got problems... be that extreme shyness, lack of social skills, etc.. maybe I'm not making any sense but I'm still baffled how people can substitute a keyboard and screen full of strangers over "normal" interaction with other homosapiens, mammals, Rhetts and Celestes out there...
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Originally posted by ggw™:
Originally posted by Fico:
epitomal
Fico, meet Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epitomal).
Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epitomal), meet Fico. [/b]
Thank you almighty Gay George W.
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No doubt Webster's is YOUR favorite dickionary.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Fico:
epitomal
Fico, meet Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epitomal).
Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=epitomal), meet Fico. [/b]
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(1) I think the whole reason folks may open up about some things on here is that it's faceless; it's easier to vent a bit to strangers and get some objective feedback, or do what you can to fill someone in on some things they seem to be ignorant about....
(2) Activity on this board in no way leads to the assumption that posters have no social lives. I have a hell of a social life, lots of friends, I get out most nights, etc. I came here to find out about the local live music scene, and lo and behold I found I'm really damn opinionated. And with that being the case, this is a cool place to vent.
(3) In every area of my life I tend to be overly open about what's going on with me, what I'm about, etc. And that may lead to someone blasting me on things they learn here. But, unlike some board members, I try really, really hard not to criticize anyone on a personal level (like calling them a stupid ignorant jack ass for going to a Justin Timberlake show). While I'll chime in with my opinion, I'll bet you don't find me attacking anyone. And in return, I doubt I'll ever be attacked (in a way I would take personally or seriously) on this board.
I hear what you're saying Fico. I think you're actually taking this all too seriously yourself. And it's like t.v. -- if you find a thread boring or overly familiar, just don't read that one.
Originally posted by Fico:
Originally posted by broadkat:
hey man, do what you want, but yeah i might get sensitive if you say, say people who admit they have depression who are posting on a thread ABOUT SUICIDE and in bereavement that they have "serious headfucks"....that's just alittle contradictory. but i'm not mad. say what you want. sex up who you want. [/b]
I guess I'm not up to date on cyber etiquette... to me it's just pretty weird the way people here seem to open up to strangers... and from what I've seen happen here things easily backfire... take Rhett for example..he came in here boasting about being a sexual libertine and what not.. when his own comments started getting back at him he couldn't take it... i think it's great to share your feelings, im just not sure if sharing it with everyone is a good idea...some people might use your confessions to their own interests... I am convinced there are sick people in here who would take someone's comment on this board and play it up as a "connection" to someone else just to get on their pants or something like that... cos yes, if you spend your days and specially your weekends socializing through this place you've got problems... be that extreme shyness, lack of social skills, etc.. maybe I'm not making any sense but I'm still baffled how people can substitute a keyboard and screen full of strangers over "normal" interaction with other homosapiens, mammals, Rhetts and Celestes out there... [/QB][/QUOTE]
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i haven't seen this posted, but has anyone seen the end of those girls gone wild commercials? the point being that, should you want to mail a check to buy one of those vids, the addressee is GGW video. do you like photography??? wink wink nudge nudge
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
i haven't seen this posted, but has anyone seen the end of those girls gone wild commercials? the point being that, should you want to mail a check to buy one of those vids, the addressee is GGW video. do you like photography??? wink wink nudge nudge
GGW - How well do you know Snoop Doggy Dogg? What was it like working with him?
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...except for fanning the flames of threads gone by with snotty comments on how it's a good thing Rhett and Celeste took each other off the market...
...but I'm glad that you have been the perfect angel since then...
Originally posted by Bagster:
[(3) In every area of my life I tend to be overly open about what's going on with me, what I'm about, etc. And that may lead to someone blasting me on things they learn here. But, unlike some board members, I try really, really hard not to criticize anyone on a personal level (like calling them a stupid ignorant jack ass for going to a Justin Timberlake show). While I'll chime in with my opinion, I'll bet you don't find me attacking anyone. And in return, I doubt I'll ever be attacked (in a way I would take personally or seriously) on this board.
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Yup, you're right, I was appalled at the porky midget shit and "we think so alike" garbage.
But all in all, my comment was AWFULLY mild. I wouldn't even want to go back and look at some/many of your postings.
But the Robbie Fulks folks have taken you in and....oh, and found you to be quite intolerant in most cases.
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Except for the ones who shoot me private messages saying, "I'm so glad you said that...I've always thought that, but was too chicken to say it."
What's wrong with thinking like your partner? Don't you and your significant other think alike?
Originally posted by Bagster:
But the Robbie Fulks folks have taken you in and....oh, and found you to be quite intolerant in most cases.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Except for the ones who shoot me private messages saying, "I'm so glad you said that...I've always thought that, but was too chicken to say it."
What's wrong with thinking like your partner? Don't you and your significant other think alike?
And I guess you're basically saying that if I made the mistake of making a joke about someone (not you)that was in poor taste, then you're allowed to attack me back personally?
Originally posted by Bagster:
But the Robbie Fulks folks have taken you in and....oh, and found you to be quite intolerant in most cases.
[/b]
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It's not thinking like your partner, it's being mean like your partner. I guess you're right, you would want someone equally mean to mate with.
And I'm done. Regardless of what you may think, I refuse to be part of the overall Rhett bashing or re-hashing.
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Ok, we both stated before that we were sorry for what was said.
You were not there when it was said....it was said online. As we have stated numerous times, it was not our intention to be "mean." What we said may have been insensitive, but it was not "mean". I think that is your interpretation, which I guess you are entitled too. I'll be if you hung out with us at all, you'd find that we may not be the most pc people, but we're certainly not mean.
Certainly not mean in the same way that people have spewed venom on this board at me. Certainly not mean in a way that someone would post our home address on this board. Certainly not mean in a way that every time there is a chance to make some sort of lame-ass fag joke on this board, certain board members will reach out and mock me.
Where are you when it comes to criticizing the meanness that has been directed my way, Ms. Bags?
Originally posted by Bagster:
It's not thinking like your partner, it's being mean like your partner. I guess you're right, you would want someone equally mean to mate with.
And I'm done. Regardless of what you may think, I refuse to be part of the overall Rhett bashing or re-hashing.
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I will confess to laughing me arse off at the porky midget comment...I've been wanting to throw it at someone ever since..
Rhett, I missed the post with your home address...I was thinking of sending an e-greeting but since it's no mystery where should I mail this year's xmas card?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Certainly not mean in the same way that people have spewed venom on this board at me. Certainly not mean in a way that someone would post our home address on this board.
Originally posted by Bagster:
And I'm done. Regardless of what you may think, I refuse to be part of the overall Rhett bashing or re-hashing.
[/b]
That is horrendous. I didn't see that, because I stopped following that thread as it got really nasty. You're right, I haven't criticized that, but I did withdraw from it. That is so, so wrong -- hell, I'm worried that your picture's online, but you seem okay with it as you've posted links to other sites.
I think that some of the other "venom" you talk about, as it's happening among regulars, I kind of ignore and chalk up to the way y'all communicate. The initial 'issue' was with a completely new user who I didn't think would understand the way the board works sometimes.
But you're right, Rhett. If it's wrong it's wrong. As a bit of a newbie myself, compared to the cadre of regulars, I thought the jibing was more light-hearted among yourselves.
Internet communication does weird things to folks. I really just want to know if it's worth checking out The Decemberists at Black Cat or Arlo at Velvet Lounge!
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Sniff, sniff...
Oh, St. "Bagster", you are too, too good...though I just have not been the same since you made fun of my hairy pits. Still I will be kind and advise you to see Arlo. I cannot, however, vouch for any of the other bands on the bill.
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Alrighty, fair enough.
I think one of the dangers of saying anything on a chatboard is that there's really no way to interpret how somebody really means something. What maybe be a lighthearted jab can easily interpreted as otherwise.
We saw Arlo at the Bowery Ballroom on Saturday. They only playes a short set, and much of it was unrecorded new stuff. A couple of good new tunes, but all in all I don't think the new stuff measures up to the first two albums (yet). No fisticuffs at this show as was the case when we saw them at Velvet.
The slow songs I've heard by the Decemberists bored me. The fast ones were nice.
School is taking care of any concert decisions we might have had to make.
Originally posted by Bagster:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Certainly not mean in the same way that people have spewed venom on this board at me. Certainly not mean in a way that someone would post our home address on this board.
Originally posted by Bagster:
And I'm done. Regardless of what you may think, I refuse to be part of the overall Rhett bashing or re-hashing.
[/b]
That is horrendous. I didn't see that, because I stopped following that thread as it got really nasty. You're right, I haven't criticized that, but I did withdraw from it. That is so, so wrong -- hell, I'm worried that your picture's online, but you seem okay with it as you've posted links to other sites.
I think that some of the other "venom" you talk about, as it's happening among regulars, I kind of ignore and chalk up to the way y'all communicate. The initial 'issue' was with a completely new user who I didn't think would understand the way the board works sometimes.
But you're right, Rhett. If it's wrong it's wrong. As a bit of a newbie myself, compared to the cadre of regulars, I thought the jibing was more light-hearted among yourselves.
Internet communication does weird things to folks. I really just want to know if it's worth checking out The Decemberists at Black Cat or Arlo at Velvet Lounge! [/b]
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It's too bad that the original thread was deleted or we could see where Rhett said that if somebody "grated on" him and his wife, they were entitled to "grate" that person back.
But then when Rhett grates on others and they follow Rhett's advice and give it right back to Rhett, he casts himself as some poor undeserving victim of mean-spiritedness.
If the original thread were still extant we could also see that Rhett called the original poster a "whiny little bitch" despite the fact that the only one whining and bitching was (and still is) Rhett.
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While it may not be the popular opinion around this message board, I'm glad that Rhett and Celeste appear to be posting again. I probably don't agree with 75% of what they say, but at least they make it interesting. So they push a few buttons? It's not like we don't have others who try to do the same.
By the way you two, what was it about the Shins performance that didn't live up to the albums? Just curious...
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What was the purpose of your posting my home address, you sanctimonious prick?
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
It's too bad that the original thread was deleted or we could see where Rhett said that if somebody "grated on" him and his wife, they were entitled to "grate" that person back.
But then when Rhett grates on others and they follow Rhett's advice and give it right back to Rhett, he casts himself as some poor undeserving victim of mean-spiritedness.
If the original thread were still extant we could also see that Rhett called the original poster a "whiny little bitch" despite the fact that the only one whining and bitching was (and still is) Rhett.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
What was the purpose of your posting my home address, you sanctimonious prick?
I posted an address with no association to whom that address belonged.
Good job on letting everyone know that it is your address.
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Originally posted by nkotbie:
By the way you two, what was it about the Shins performance that didn't live up to the albums? Just curious...
Marty Crandall's stage banter...
Seriosly, though, I thought they were alright live. Their music is very nuanced such that the details can be lost in a rock-show type scene with less than great acoustics, people talking, shuffling about, etc.
And, as an example of shifting gears for live performances, to "make them work" I noticed that Beulah did their tunes differently live...less detailed, more simply loud and direct, more like snapshots of their songs, or songs using larger brush-strokes, if you will...
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
What was the purpose of your posting my home address, you sanctimonious prick?
I posted an address with no association to whom that address belonged.
Good job on letting everyone know that it is your address. [/b]
you lovers take this quarrel off the board, please!
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Again, prick, my question is...
Why would you post it in the first place?
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
What was the purpose of your posting my home address, you sanctimonious prick?
I posted an address with no association to whom that address belonged.
Good job on letting everyone know that it is your address. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Again, prick, my question is...
Why would you post it in the first place?
Because Rhett, I was following your doctrine of "somebody grates on me, I'm entitled to grate on them."
You constantly exhibit that ideal in both your statements and actions, yet when somebody practices it on you, you throw a hissy fit that would make a Scarsdale debutante proud.
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I luv this board...
Well Rhett and Celeste are posting again... where's Markie, Lulu & Ginger?
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Calling a random person a "porky midget" can hardly be equated with posting someone's home address on an internet chatboard.
So then if your willingly doing the same "wrongs" as me, what gives you the right to judge me and call me names as if you're somehow better than me?
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Again, prick, my question is...
Why would you post it in the first place?
Because Rhett, I was following your doctrine of "somebody grates on me, I'm entitled to grate on them."
You constantly exhibit that ideal in both your statements and actions, yet when somebody practices it on you, you throw a hissy fit that would make a Scarsdale debutante proud. [/b]
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Originally posted by Celeste:
I just have not been the same since you made fun of my hairy pits.
According to *your* husband, they're the most beautiful hairy pits in the land. And I believe I simply restated that. Guess he's wrong.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Because Rhett, I was following your doctrine of "somebody grates on me, I'm entitled to grate on them."
You constantly exhibit that ideal in both your statements and actions, yet when somebody practices it on you, you throw a hissy fit...[/b]
GGW, he is no different than anyone else in that respect. You do tend to be a little harsher with him than with others, though I have observed similarities between you and he, which are curious.
I should clarify for everyone the reason we stopped posting, or, I should speak for myself only, that the reason I stopped posting, was that I found people on the board to be definitely self-righteous, often humorless, and to a degree kind of stupid. Not everyone, of course...the whole midget tirade just illustrated alot of this very clearly. Anyway...I don't plan on posting much, now, either...just a slow day, I guess...
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
you throw a hissy fit that would make a Scarsdale debutante proud.
Now why do you have to harsh on Scarsdale?!?
;)
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Originally posted by Bagster:
Originally posted by Celeste:
I just have not been the same since you made fun of my hairy pits.
According to *your* husband, they're the most beautiful hairy pits in the land. And I believe I simply restated that. Guess he's wrong. [/b]
I guess it's just a subjective thing.
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Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw™:
Because Rhett, I was following your doctrine of "somebody grates on me, I'm entitled to grate on them."
You constantly exhibit that ideal in both your statements and actions, yet when somebody practices it on you, you throw a hissy fit...[/b]
GGW, he is no different than anyone else in that respect. You do tend to be a little harsher with him than with others, though I have observed similarities between you and he, which are curious.
I should clarify for everyone the reason we stopped posting, or, I should speak for myself only, that the reason I stopped posting, was that I found people on the board to be definitely self-righteous, often humorless, and to a degree kind of stupid. Not everyone, of course...the whole midget tirade just illustrated alot of this very clearly. Anyway...I don't plan on posting much, now, either...just a slow day, I guess... [/b]
You three should get a room...
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Calling a random person a "porky midget" can hardly be equated with posting someone's home address on an internet chatboard.
Like I said, it was just a random address until you piped up. In fact it was on a thread you never contributed to and was in no way associated with you. Until now.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
So then if your willingly doing the same "wrongs" as me, what gives you the right to judge me and call me names as if you're somehow better than me?
I've only directed those "wrongs" at you. And since they are not "wrongs" in your book, I've done you no "wrong."
And I am better than you.
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I didn't know Elliot Smith ended it all at the lovely Chalfonte.
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That's news to me, but I did hear Colonel Johnson sold him the knife.
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
I didn't know Elliot Smith ended it all at the lovely Chalfonte.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
I didn't know Elliot Smith ended it all at the lovely Chalfonte.
He was actually murdered by one of their giant cockroaches, but Bernstein Management covered it up with this suicide bit. Look for the scandal to be exposed the City Paper this week...
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I was wondering how he penetrated his own ribcage.
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The basketball story is a good one at the bottom. From Beck: I heard the news this morning that Elliott Smith had passed away. It is a terrible loss for myself and many of my friends, who knew, worked and hung out with him. Needless to say he was one of the best songwriters of our day and a formidable musician. He was also soft spoken, intelligent and extremely humble. He had an acute sense of justice. At one of my shows last year he tried to intervene with security who were harrassing a kid, and was in turn beaten and arrested by them. We know he’s had his struggles over the years and I was heartened by word that he was on an upswing and preparing a new album. We even talked a few times about getting together and making some music when I got off tour. Nobody was to know what would happen, but I am grateful for the times we got to tour and hang out together. He will be missed and the ramifications of his absence will long be felt. - Bek
I have a good memory of him, from when I recorded a few songs for the xo album: we were at Sunset Sound, and on a break we were playing basketball, and he had all these wigs and costumes. He brought out this pirate hat that somehow had an eye patch built into it. Anyway, we devised a game where we all had to take turns doing a lay-up wearing the pirate hat and patch, and we each had to do our best pirate impersonation while trying to make the shot. It was ridiculous and somehow so sweet! At least he had a light side in there at some point. I'm going to hold on to that image of him hobbling towards the the basketball hoop in pirate garb, shouting, "Ahrrrrr!", and laughing. - Joey Waronker, longtime drummer for Beck.
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Late response, but RIP Elliott Smith.
Makes you think about things really, how someone who had so much talent and created so much beauty could have so much sadness and ugliness inside. I've been listening to his music, his fragile and delicate voice, wondering what he was thinking in that brutal moment before he chose to do what he did. Whether he was searching for something, whether he was sad, whether he was scared, whether he decided to fuck it all and go home for the rest of eternity?
And then you listen to "Say Yes":
It's always been wait and see
A happy day and then you pay
And feel like shit the morning after
But now I feel changed around and instead falling down
I'm standing up the morning after
Situations get fucked up
And turned around sooner or later
Then you wonder where the hope went.
I guess we'll never know, but it's particularly tragic when you think of what could have been. It's a thought that will keep me going, for sure, through my own existentialist self-analytical self-obsessed dark moments. What happens next? You'll never know unless you try. When it all seems too much now, I'll just try to ask myself "What could be?" Maybe I can create something beautiful too.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
But, goodbye Elliott.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
I was wondering how he penetrated his own ribcage.
He used a force multiplier.