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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: xcanuck on August 19, 2004, 02:09:00 pm
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Sat Sept 25 is gonna be a Canucks wet dream. Two of the top Canadian bands hit DC. Nope - not Shania and Bryan (thank goodness). It's the Tragically Hip and the Weakerthans.
The Hip are doing an early show at the 9:30 and then later that night we'll be able to catch the Weakerthans at the Black Cat.
Definitely a good night of music!
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i really really like the Weakerthans. Good stuff. They get 4 chimbly stars.
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best band playing that night is Lucero, who for some reason are opening for The Weakerthans
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Are you saying that the Weakerthans are weaker than Lucero?
Originally posted by pollard:
best band playing that night is Lucero, who for some reason are opening for The Weakerthans
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I'll be taking a breather that night, between the two best shows of the weekend.
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Originally posted by pollard:
best band playing that night is Lucero, who for some reason are opening for The Weakerthans
you just proved how unHIP you really are, pollard.
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Originally posted by xcanuck:
Sat Sept 25 is gonna be a Canucks wet dream.
I've got my Hip tickets already. can't wait.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
you just proved how unHIP you really are, pollard.
how tragic
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Are you saying that the Weakerthans are weaker than Lucero?
yes it is an appropriate name
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http://www.tinymixtapes.com/articles/04.08.13-misunderstood_hip.htm (http://www.tinymixtapes.com/articles/04.08.13-misunderstood_hip.htm)
The Misunderstood Hip
The Plight of the Tragically Hip
08.13.04
by wolfman
There are many misunderstood stories and interpretations in today's world of music, but none compare to the struggle of acceptance that The Tragically Hip endures with each consequent album release, especially south of the Canadian border. Once again, The Tragically Hip will attempt to gain notoriety and a more numerous fan base in the United States with their new album In Between Evolution, their tenth studio album since the late '80s. While their committed and fanatical followers in Canada engulf themselves into another slice of Hip accomplishment, our friendly neighbors to the south have never fully acknowledged their immense talents and achievements. Furthermore, the Hip's incredible music has been described as somewhat diluted across the border, leaving their established foundations weak and shaken. Yet, no one has ever attempted to clarify why this consistently occurs to the group, since it possesses such an incredible back-catalogue of hits. There must be a plethora of reasons why The Hip struggle in the U.S. and I will attempt to alleviate and assuage this unexplained phenomena. But first, if you want to enjoy and take pleasure in listening to The Tragically Hip, you must know who they are and what they represent.
The Tragically Hip is often misinterpreted; that has been established already: But why? Often represented as the epitome of Canadiana, The Hip plays rock 'n roll. This leaves many potential music lovers misjudging The Hip as a novelty act, something regional that cannot be associated with a broader acceptance. Yes it's true, in Canada The Tragically Hip go beyond novelty, affirming a more rigid 'cult' fan base after each consecutive album release. Who else could attract 30,000 people to a mediocre outdoor festival. And furthermore, would a novelty band last as long as they have and expand its musical achievements so willfully? The Hip's career has spawned 17 years, 17 fucking years! Not bad for novelty.
So why have they been exiled from the U.S., while other Canadian bands are welcomed with open arms, especially in today's 'indie' market. Perhaps the lack of real promotion signifies their ultimate downfall, but I believe that The Hip's promo has vastly improved for the last two releases. Maybe the lack of chance The Hip has been given by listeners has left them in the pitfalls, leaving the band members uninterested in expanding its world acceptance. And while bands like The Barenaked Ladies achieve international success for each album release, The Tragically Hip goes unnoticed and overlooked again and again; what a kick in the ass that must be to witness such mediocre bands like The Barenaked Ladies pole vault its stardom above and beyond without a trace of any challenging talent.
Let's paint a clearer image of the band. Who is The Tragically Hip? The band members are Robby Baker (guitar), Gordon Downie (singer), Johnny Fay (drums), Paul Langlois (guitar, vocals), and Gord Sinclair (bass, vocals). "We're a collective, and everything we do is a reflection of the five of us," concludes Gordon Downie, lead vocalist of The Hip. "A lot of it's unspoken, and that has a lot to do with having been together for fifteen years. All of our decisions are basically built around that, and everything flows from that." Bassist Gord Sinclair adds: "We've always felt that the strength of the group is that it is a group, and it's increasingly rare that bands are given the time to develop the kind of working relationship that we have. That's allowed us to create an atmosphere where all five guys can feel like they have an equal voice in what's going down, rather than relying on one or two songwriters, and that allows us to avoid repeating ourselves."
Seventeen years of partnership can put a strain on many bands, but not The Hip, as they completely immerse all band members into the creative process. That is the strength of the band's everlasting tenure in rock 'n roll. The band members possess a calm, down-to-earth disposition that closely relates to the Canadian way of living. Perhaps this temperament has lead many to conclude that The Hip is exceptionally Canadian, unable to create a bond the U.S. market. The Tragically Hip is all about connecting with the music they create and to generate a connection with its fans and listeners; a task that has been an everlasting struggle with many markets of the world, except Canada, to be sure.
The Hip has recorded 10 studio recordings since 1987 and 1 live album. If you want to know more about these albums, please check out this discography. (http://www.maplemusic.com/artists/hip/disc.asp) I would divulge in describing each album in detail, but my aim with this article is to provide anyone who is willing to give The Tragically Hip a chance with a mix tape that will strengthen its faith in one of today's most talented bands. Furthermore, this mix tape will connect possible fans with The Tragically Hip's newest release, In Between Evolution, an eclectic mix of The Hip's most energetic rock 'n roll, an introspective collection of its work in the last 17 years [TMT Review].
Here are some of the Hip's most mesmerizing album tracks from these 17 years, encompassing its passion and perseverance as a truly unique rock 'n roll band. These selected songs are not in any order but create an adequate overview of The Hip's powerful music.
1. "Thugs" (Day For Night) â?? Possibly the most emotionally driven song in The Hip's entire catalogue, "Thugs" literally paints a picture of abstract deception. While the video showcased scenes of a robbery while Gord Downie crooned his poignant lyrics "I do the rolling/ You do the details," most will agree that the song's theme is simply about painting, not crime. Although the video received lackluster acceptance and earned a ban on many music stations, "Thugs" is definitely The Hip at its most effective.
2. "Gift Shop" (Trouble At The Henhouse) â?? Trouble At The Henhouse was The Hip's distinct departure from straight-up rock 'n roll. Although Day For Night mingled in layered musicianship, nothing compared to the brooding musical achievement of "Gift Shop." Furthermore, The Hip completely immersed itself with dark imagery and abstract lyricism. Lyrics like "We're forced to bed/But we're free to dream" unfastened a new and improved (yet still very similar) Tragically Hip that not only focused on rocking its fans but presented them with truly intellectual music as well.
3. "Cordelia" (Road Apples) â?? Yes, it's true; The Tragically Hip was pretty twangy at the beginning. Although it had received mass appeal in Canada with its previous album release, Road Apples was definitely The Hip's crowning achievement. Filled with catchy rock anthems and luscious ballads, Road Apples was a Canadian staple. And while other songs on the album captured the hearts of many fans, only "Cordelia" exemplified the rawest passion and commitment any song can bear. Emotional lyrics like "Jump in the ring with your hidden cape/ The bull can't decide what it is that he hates" adequately explain the strength and compassion of the song and elevated it above all others on the record.
4. "Putting Down" (Music@Work) - A real gem amongst one of The Hip's less favorable albums. Although a very straightforward song, "Putting Down" contains an unimaginably catchy melody. Light-hearted and contained, Downie showcases an appealing disposition, rhyming off his lyrics with amusing happiness and contentment. The musical accompaniment is fantastic, creating an easy-going track filled with a chanting chorus and sing-along capability.
5. "Save The Planet" (Phantom Power) â?? Taking a musical approach from earlier albums, "Save The Planet" captures immediately and doesn't let go until it's 3 and ½ minute finish. The music is relentless as Downie chants convincingly "What's left to captivate us/ What's to become of us," showcasing The Hip's fanatical energy once more.
6. "New Orleans Is Sinking" (Up To Here) â?? Ahh, the crowning achievement; without this song, The Hip would not have received such accolades as it has in its long and prosperous career. In fact, "New Orleans Is Sinking" is perhaps the most recognizable Canadian song ever, after Stompin' Tom's "Hockey Song." Even today, as the radio continues to include the song in its rotation, many will loudly chant along to its captivating melody. I don't know too many The Hip fans that do not know every word of "New Orleans Is Sinking." Perhaps the most sought after performance at any The Hip show, "New Orleans Is Sinking" has always become a feverish jam song, intertwining Downie's exceptional and hilarious soliloquies about Killer Whales or an appropriate David Bowie cover. A true classic!
7. "Locked In The Trunk Of A Car" (Fully Completely) â?? If Road Apples captivated many fans and established The Hip as musical contenders, Fully Completely kept its promise, further developing The Hip as a force to reckon with. "Locked In The Trunk Of A Car" was the first installment of The Hip's darker imagery. Shouting lyrics like "Everyday, I'm dumping the body" and "It'd be better for us if you didn't understand" exemplified Downie's peculiar, fascinating storytelling. The musical accompaniment committed as well, creating an eerie response to The Hip's previous work. Yet, the music was intriguing, creating a perfect score to Downie's incredible lyricism.
8. "Fireworks" (Phantom Power) â?? The perfect love story. With the compassion that Canadians have with the sport of hockey, many fans of The Hip were possibly shocked to hear the context of this song. Lyrics like "You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey/ And I never saw someone say that before/ You held my hand and we walked home the long way/ You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr." A implausible song about relationships and commitment. "Isn't it amazing anything's accomplished/ When the little sensation gets in your way;" I have to agree.
9. "The Dark Canuck" (In Violet Light) â?? A great example of Downie's commitment to the passion of the group. Downie's exemplifies why he is regarded as a tremendous leader in The Hip with his compelling and mesmerizing vocals. "The Dark Canuck" is a beautifully layered song, showcasing The Hip's jamming capabilities. Unless you've witnessed its favorable live performances, the Hip have always struggled to mimic the extreme intensity of its live show on record. That isn't a bad thing, as most notable artist suffer from the same fate, yet "The Dark Canuck" is the closest you will get to its raw and energetic live show.
10. "Summer's Killing Us" (In Between Evolution) â?? The perfect new single from The Hip's newest album, "Summer's Killing Us" is a cross-hybrid of the old rock 'n roll philosophy intertwined with The Hip's musical direction since Day for Night. And with the addition of tighter and bolder production, In Between Evolution's "Summer's Killing Us" should finally convince many music lovers in the U.S. that this little Canadian band deserves some much-ado recognition.
As mentioned before, The Hip's discography spans through a plethora of albums and bootlegs. Narrowing a mix tape to 10 songs only touches the surface. Below are some more songs that are recommended to enhance any Tragically Hip experience.
1. The Tragically Hip (1987) â?? "Small Town Bringdown," "Highway Girl."
2. Up To Here (1989) â?? "Blow At High Dough," "She Didn't Know."
3. Road Apples (1991) â?? "Little Bones," "Twist My Arm," "On The Verge."
4. Fully Completely (1992) â?? "At The Hundredth Meridian," "Fifty-Mission Cap," "The Wherewithal."
5. Day For Night (1994) â?? "Grace, Too," "Daredevil," "So Hard Done By," "Nautical Disaster," "Scared."
6. Trouble At The Henhouse (1996) â?? "Springtime In Vienna," "Ahead By A Century," "700 ft Ceiling."
7. Phantom Power (1998) â?? "Poets," "Escape Is At Hand For The Travellin' Man."
8. Music@Work (2000) â?? "My Music At Work," "Lake Fever," "The Bastards."
9. In Violet Light (2002) â?? "Are You Ready," "Use It Up," "All Tore Up."
10. In Between Evolution (2004) â?? "Gus: The Polar Bear From Central Park."
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just thought I'd post a set from their last show, in case anyone's wondering what thier playing (though, the set lists seem to change rather drastically from night to night)
Tuesday, September 21, 2004
Setlist - The Avalon, Boston, MA - Sept. 21, 2004
It Can't Be Nashville Every Night
Grace, Too
Are You Ready
Twist My Arm
In Bobcaygeon
You Are Everywhere
Courage
Summer's Killing Us
Poets
Goodnight Josephine
Lake Fever
100th Meridian
Escape Is At Hand (For The Travelling Man)
Fireworks
Mean Streak
New Orleans Is Sinking
Gus
My Music @ Work
1st Encore:
Vaccination Scar
Ahead By A Century
Something On
2nd Encore:
Heaven Is A Better Place Today
Little Bones
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Are you saying that the Weakerthans are weaker than Lucero?
Originally posted by pollard:
best band playing that night is Lucero, who for some reason are opening for The Weakerthans
[/b]
I've seen Lucero, they're nothing special. And they sound nothing like the Weakethans, whole nother genre. Odd pairing.
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Originally posted by redsock:
I've seen Lucero, they're nothing special. And they sound nothing like the Weakethans, whole nother genre. Odd pairing.
I've seen Lucero, they put on a damn fine show.
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For anyone whos going to the Hip show on Saturday, you may expect to see one Dan Akroyd on the harmonica. He's shown up in Toronto and in NYC last night, so who knows whether he'll make the trip to DC.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
For anyone whos going to the Hip show on Saturday, you may expect to see one Dan Akroyd on the harmonica. He's shown up in Toronto and in NYC last night, so who knows whether he'll make the trip to DC.
nifty.
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Burning the candle at both ends but it's worth it. We saw the Hip in Detroit and Cleveland. The Hip were their usual rocking selves. Gord was in fine form, ranting and going on about all sorts of nonsense when he wasn't singing. But, to be honest, nothing out of the ordinary.
Sam Roberts, however, delivered the goods. He rocked his Montreal heart out and won over all the Yanks in the audience who had never heard him before. Solid rock and roll. No frills. Just 110% effort and energy.
Then I went on another roadtrip (just got back this morning) from seeing the Weakerthans in Pittsburgh and Philly. I am blown away by the following they've accumulated, inspite of not having any airplay. There were close to 1000 people last night in Philly and everyone seemed to know all the words to all the songs. I guess they're not Winnipeg's best kept secret anymore.
One night off....and then it's Sam Roberts, the Hip and Weakerthans all in one day tomorrow...then off to Philly for another Hip show.
yes....I'm obsessed. My wife is arranging for an intervention...
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how do you people get all this time off work?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
how do you people get all this time off work?
Here's the beauty of it. The Detroit and Cleveland Hip shows were on Sat and Sun so we didn't take any time off (although Mon morning was kinda brutal). I'm seeing a total of 10 Tragically Hip/Sam Roberts shows on this tour and only taking ONE day off to make it all happen!
I *did* have to take a couple of days off to make the Weakerthan shows happen, but it's worth it. They're probably my favorite band from the Northland.
Sonickteam2 - you going to go to the Baltimore show, too?
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But doesn't this Sam Roberts fella suck?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
But doesn't this Sam Roberts fella suck?
Oh, he DEFINITELY sucks, if you're a cooler-than-thou hipster that only like bands that Mojo, Q, and Pitchfork like.
But if you like straight ahead, energetic rock and roll, then he's f**king amazing.
:) :)
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Then he's like John Cougar Mellencamp?
Originally posted by xcanuck:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
But doesn't this Sam Roberts fella suck?
Oh, he DEFINITELY sucks, if you're a cooler-than-thou hipster that only like bands that Mojo, Q, and Pitchfork like.
But if you like straight ahead, energetic rock and roll, then he's f**king amazing.
:) :) [/b]
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Originally posted by xcanuck:
Sonickteam2 - you going to go to the Baltimore show, too?
mayhaps. its 10 minutes from my house...but with Clinic, Deftones, Ted Leo, Libertines and Death Cab all the week before, and then my weekend of following Muse around....it may not happen
they usually play Ont. over the holidays somewhere..
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Then he's like John Cougar Mellencamp?
i am so sure you are NOT making fun of the Coug. :mad:
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
but with Clinic, Deftones, Ted Leo, Libertines and Death Cab all the week before, and then my weekend of following Muse around....it may not happen
And don't forget Interpol... ;)
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The Bottle Rockets do it way better than I ever could...
Got a tow, from a guy named Joe.
Cost sixty dollars hope I don't run outta dough.
Told me 'bout a sex offense put him three days in jail,
Stuck in Indianapolis hope I live to tell the tale.
I'm stuck in Indianapolis, with a fuel pump that's deceased.
Ten days on the road now I'm four hours from my hometown
Is this Hell or Indianapolis, with no way to get around.
Called my girl to tell her all the trouble that I had.
First time I called her in ten days, guess that made her mad.
Far as she's concerned I'm stuck here in this Hoosier State.
Stuck in Indianapolis with no way to set things straight.
CHORUS
Sittin' in this bar is gettin' more than I can stand,
If I could catch a ride, would they think I ditched this band.
Who knows what this repair'll cost, scared to spend a dime.
I'll puke if that jukebox plays John Cougar one more time!
But if I ever leave here I hope never to return,
If I get that van back, man the road I'm gonna burn.
Right now my future's in the hands of the boys down at Firestone.
Stuck in Indianapolis, feelin' all alone.
CHORUS
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Then he's like John Cougar Mellencamp?
i am so sure you are NOT making fun of the Coug. :mad: [/b]
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QUOTE]they usually play Ont. over the holidays somewhere.. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Canadian tour dates have already been announced. Ontario shows are:
11/26 - Toronto, ON / ACC on sale now
11/27 - London, ON / John Labatt Center on sale 11/28 - Ottawa, ON / Civic Centre on sale now
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Originally posted by xcanuck:
Canadian tour dates have already been announced. Ontario shows are:
11/26 - Toronto, ON / ACC on sale now
11/27 - London, ON / John Labatt Center on sale 11/28 - Ottawa, ON / Civic Centre on sale now
and hot damn if i dont have a flight to Toronto already booked for 11/26. :)
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The Hip were hot last night.
No. Really.
It was like a hundred degrees in the Club. The walls were sweating.
Temperature notwithstanding, it was a great, great show. In a selfish way, it's a good thing the band is not as revered here as they are in the Great White North. Much nicer to see a band this good in a 1,000-person club than a 15,000-seat arena. I'll probably make the trek to Recher next month.
Saturday, September 25, 2004
Setlist - 9:30 Club, Washington, DC, Sept. 25, 2004
As Makeshift As We Are
Grace, Too
Summer's Killing Us
Poets
It's A Good Life If You Don't Weaken
Heaven Is A Better Place Today
Inevitability Of Death
In Bobcaygeon
Nautical Disaster
It Can't Be Nashville Every Night
Vaccination Scar
Fighter Figter
100th Meridian
Something On
New Orleans Is Sinking
Gus The Polar Bear From Central Park
My Music @ Work
Encore:
Ahead By A Century
Blow At High Dough
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Wonderful show on Saturday night. I agree with ggw, its hard to get tickets for thier small shows in Canada. and so its nice to see them from 8 ft away every once off. The energy was great too, Gord hasn't slowed down a bit.
There was a full fledged mob of Canadians up front, jumping around. And i forgot how its ok to just push people out of your way and jump around and spill beer and smoke cigarettes when you really dont have enough room...when you're in Canada. haha.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Wonderful show on Saturday night. I agree with ggw, its hard to get tickets for thier small shows in Canada. and so its nice to see them from 8 ft away every once off. The energy was great too, Gord hasn't slowed down a bit.
Definitely a great show. We were right up against the rail and Gord was a dripping wet machine. I've never seen anyone sweat the way he does.
We went to Philly last night to see them play there and I have to admit that last night's show was possibly the most energetic I've seen from the band in a the last few years. Gord completely lost it towards the end of the show. He was riding his mic stand like it was a horse and bent the stand to a 90 degree angle. Then he lost his balance and fell down. He stayed on the floor but kept screaming about how his horse had fallen on him, broken his leg, crushed his pelvis, and the tide was coming in. It was pretty damn funny.
*sigh* Three weeks off before we go to Burlington, Albany, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Grand Rapids, Toledo, and finally a show in Ottawa. Nothing like a Hip tour. :)
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
It was like a hundred degrees in the Club. The walls were sweating.
I almost passed out as did a couple others.
Good show.
Sam Roberts - ugh.
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I guess you're one of those hipsters.
Oh, he DEFINITELY sucks, if you're a cooler-than-thou hipster that only like bands that Mojo, Q, and Pitchfork like.
But if you like straight ahead, energetic rock and roll, then he's f**king amazing.
Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
[/qb]
Sam Roberts - ugh. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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I liked what I saw of Sam Roberts.
He opened for someone else a while back (TSOOL maybe?) and I remember being thoroughly unimpressed at the time. But I thought he was good on Saturday.
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Huh?
I thought they were terrible, let's just leave it at that.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I guess you're one of those hipsters.
Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
[/b]
Sam Roberts - ugh. [/QB]
[/QB][/QUOTE]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I guess you're one of those hipsters.
Oh, he DEFINITELY sucks, if you're a cooler-than-thou hipster that only like bands that Mojo, Q, and Pitchfork like.
But if you like straight ahead, energetic rock and roll, then he's f**king amazing.
the first song or two by him were kind of strange...then i got the John Cougar Mellencamp vibe from him, then i thought he just rocked out. a lot of energy, the band jived well together. and really a perfect opener for the Hip. live, they come across much better than thier CD.
and i like Q magazine.
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I'm just messing with you.
Those were x-canuck's comments about Sam Roberts.
I've never heard them, but my hunch is that I would agree with you.
Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
Huh?
I thought they were terrible, let's just leave it at that.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I guess you're one of those hipsters.
Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
[/b]
Sam Roberts - ugh. [/b]
[/QB]
[/QB][/QUOTE]
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Originally posted by xcanuck:
*sigh* Three weeks off before we go to Burlington, Albany, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Grand Rapids, Toledo, and finally a show in Ottawa. Nothing like a Hip tour. :)
what job do you have that you can do that?
and at $25 a piece!
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Originally posted by xcanuck:
Definitely a great show. We were right up against the rail and Gord was a dripping wet machine. I've never seen anyone sweat the way he does.
what side of the stage were you on?
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You've obviously never been to an Old 97's show.
[QB] Originally posted by xcanuck:
[qb] machine. I've never seen anyone sweat the way he does.
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I only caught the last half of Roberts, but I agree on the band being tight and rocking out.
As for the perspiration, even from my vantage point upstairs, you could see a steady stream of sweat coming off Downie's hands and arms.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
the first song or two by him were kind of strange...then i got the John Cougar Mellencamp vibe from him, then i thought he just rocked out. a lot of energy, the band jived well together. and really a perfect opener for the Hip. live, they come across much better than thier CD.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
what side of the stage were you on?
We were on the right hand side (as you face the stage)...right in front of Gord Sinclair and Rob Baker. I was the East Indian guy with the shoulder length hair and my wife was the Irish redhead. Yeah....we stick out in a crowd :D
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Originally posted by xcanuck:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
what side of the stage were you on?
We were on the right hand side (as you face the stage)...right in front of Gord Sinclair and Rob Baker. I was the East Indian guy with the shoulder length hair and my wife was the Irish redhead. Yeah....we stick out in a crowd :D [/b]
ahhh, i was right behind you. were you near the girl with the colorful hat (i believe it was a girl) and the tall dude with the Damphousse jersey? i was behind them.....for a while, then i stepped back about 6 feet or so to let some shorter folk see.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
ahhh, i was right behind you. were you near the girl with the colorful hat (i believe it was a girl) and the tall dude with the Damphousse jersey? i was behind them.....for a while, then i stepped back about 6 feet or so to let some shorter folk see.
So now you know who I am. :) Next time, say hi!
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October 6th Sam Roberts will perform on the Late Late Show on CBS
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Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
October 6th Sam Roberts will perform on the Late Late Show on CBS
The Tivo is already set!!
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Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
October 6th Sam Roberts will perform on the Late Late Show on CBS
tv sucks
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What channel's ESPN again?
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Originally posted by econo:
What channel's ESPN again?
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