930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Justin Tonation on August 22, 2003, 08:49:00 pm
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I just noticed the Timberlake show is 21+. What up with that, Seth? I thought 9:30 was all ages all times.
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Since he probably won't start til 12:30 a.m. or 1 a.m. it probably isnt a bad move making it over 21.
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Timberlake is probably very expensive, in order to make any money (sometimes break even) you have to have drinkers in there. Can't pack a house with people who are buying sodas and water and still be able to afford a high-priced act.
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Justin is now trying to appeal to a more adult audience. It's probably the only way that they could force the little girlies out and maintain an entirely "adult" audience. Also, by restricting the crowd to adults only, it makes it look like it's working.
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Is Justin over 21 (http://unassistedchildbirth.com/orgasmic.htm) centimeters???
Fuck a damn Justin, when is Michael Jackson cumming? Justin Timberlake??? 930 has just lost any cred it once had.
And howzabout that Partridge family reunion ? (http://www.marycareyforgovernor.com/)
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Originally posted by +H? ?ömþæ¥ Ððør§:
Is Justin over 21 (http://unassistedchildbirth.com/orgasmic.htm) centimeters???
Fuck a damn Justin, when is Michael Jackson cumming? Justin Timberlake??? 930 has just lost any cred it once had.
And howzabout that Partridge family reunion ? (http://www.marycareyforgovernor.com/)
I love it when people start up with the 9:30 "losing it's cred" stuff. What a bunch of crap. The club is a business, not a non-profit organization. I thought the whole point of starting a business was to make money, you know earn a profit? Without the occasional big name act/big ticket price you wouldn't get all the ultra hip indie rock or alt country or whatever is currently cool to like shows with the $15 ticket price.
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Originally posted by Shadrach:
I love it when people start up with the 9:30 "losing it's cred" stuff. What a bunch of crap. The club is a business, not a non-profit organization. I thought the whole point of starting a business was to make money, you know earn a profit? Without the occasional big name act/big ticket price you wouldn't get all the ultra hip indie rock or alt country or whatever is currently cool to like shows with the $15 ticket price.
Thank you, Shadrach. I resent hearing people complain about 930 "selling out" or whatever.... if you don't bring in money, you can't stay in business nor can you bring in the elitist indie fuck bands....Besides, I bet the Justin show will be interesting. He's not untalented. Everyone (well a lot of people) on this board claim to "listen to everything" or at least have some form of variance in their musical tastes... and then they immediately slam (did i just use that word?) Justin Timberlake, when there really are worse things in music. :mad:
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Originally posted by Shadrach:
I love it when people start up with the 9:30 "losing it's cred" stuff[...]The club is a business, not a non-profit organization. I thought the whole point of starting a business was to make money, you know earn a profit?[/QB]
You seem to be saying here, Sadsack, that integrity can be de-linked from business practice. Via your logic, booking OJ Simpson would bring high-paying hordes thru the gates too. A stinkeroo like Justin leaves a definite, cheesy aftertaste.
Originally posted by paige:
Thank you, Shadrach[...]Besides, I bet the Justin show will be interesting. He's not untalented[...]there really are worse things in music.
Just what was Justin's main talent again? He's the prepackaged "Tiger Beat" Leif Garrett of today. He's a dumbed-down, Wal-Mart version of David Cassidy.
"...not untalented," indeed! His mother, his agent and all of their accountants would, doubtless agree with your assessment of his 'bankable' talent, paige. He's product. You're a tool.
"I swear that you are Hitler's clone
You spread disease wherever you roam
Got the brains of a garden gnome
Why are you a moron? (http://www.deadmilkmen.com/lyrics.html)"
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Originally posted by +H? ?ömþæ¥ Ððør§:
Originally posted by Shadrach:
I love it when people start up with the 9:30 "losing it's cred" stuff[...]The club is a business, not a non-profit organization. I thought the whole point of starting a business was to make money, you know earn a profit?[/b]
You seem to be saying here, Sadsack, that integrity can be de-linked from business practice. Via your logic, booking OJ Simpson would bring high-paying hordes thru the gates too. A stinkeroo like Justin leaves a definite, cheesy aftertaste.
Originally posted by paige:
Thank you, Shadrach[...]Besides, I bet the Justin show will be interesting. He's not untalented[...]there really are worse things in music.
Just what was Justin's main talent again? He's the prepackaged "Tiger Beat" Leif Garrett of today. He's a dumbed-down, Wal-Mart version of David Cassidy.
"...not untalented," indeed! His mother, his agent and all of their accountants would, doubtless agree with your assessment of his 'bankable' talent, paige. He's product. You're a tool.
"I swear that you are Hitler's clone
You spread disease wherever you roam
Got the brains of a garden gnome
Why are you a moron? (http://www.deadmilkmen.com/lyrics.html)" [/QB]
Yawn. Get some new material.
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just got back from being away for a week, so sorry for the delay in responding
OK...first things first...
the 21 and over thing was totally Justin's deal. he is definitely trying to establish the aforementioned "cred", and wanted it to be grown-ups only, presumably to be more performance-oriented and less screamy. also, because it's such a late show, the thought was that it might be irresponsible to allow such a young crowd to be defying mommy & daddy and coming down to the bowels of the U Street corridor after Metro. or maybe they were trying to protect mommy & daddy. in any event, we didn't feel it was worth fighting over. had it been a regular showtime, we definitely would have.
now, about this "cred" thing. there's this judge somehwere down South thinking that the Ten Commandments is the ultimate "cred" and that everybody should fall in line with that way of thinking. the Nazis had a similar approach (as do most Republicans, IMHO). who is to say what is hip and what is not? try and tell the people that fill up the club for Justin that they should NOT be enjoying this.
there is a big difference between promoting a murderer and/or bigot (we once refused Professor Griff a gig until he apologized for his remarks, which he didn't), and a boy-band refugee. personally, I think that people that take all of this that seriously should get over themselves, and try and learn how to be happier. I'll say it agian...stop thinking about what you're thinking about and just enjoy life.
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Originally posted by Shadrach:
Yawn. Get some new material.
I second that. You're starting to repeat yourself. Calling me a tool doesn't help, either.
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
just got back from being away for a week, so sorry for the delay in responding
OK...first things first...
the 21 and over thing was totally Justin's deal. he is definitely trying to establish the aforementioned "cred", and wanted it to be grown-ups only, presumably to be more performance-oriented and less screamy. also, because it's such a late show, the thought was that it might be irresponsible to allow such a young crowd to be defying mommy & daddy and coming down to the bowels of the U Street corridor after Metro. or maybe they were trying to protect mommy & daddy. in any event, we didn't feel it was worth fighting over. had it been a regular showtime, we definitely would have.
now, about this "cred" thing. there's this judge somehwere down South thinking that the Ten Commandments is the ultimate "cred" and that everybody should fall in line with that way of thinking. the Nazis had a similar approach (as do most Republicans, IMHO). who is to say what is hip and what is not? try and tell the people that fill up the club for Justin that they should NOT be enjoying this.
there is a big difference between promoting a murderer and/or bigot (we once refused Professor Griff a gig until he apologized for his remarks, which he didn't), and a boy-band refugee. personally, I think that people that take all of this that seriously should get over themselves, and try and learn how to be happier. I'll say it agian...stop thinking about what you're thinking about and just enjoy life.
yeah everybody shut up, Justin is going to have a real problem selling records and tickets if you say it is not cool to like him, you have to like him, it is not ok to think there is such a thing as god awful music, espcially when it is force fed to everyone through every method possible, how many places are most bands that people like on this board dismissed out of pure ignorance and Justin praised out of pure spending power, I think it is fine for a few people on this board to say Justin is not cool, doh! stop thinking, enjoy life, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, the computer has lights on it, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
why doesn't everybody just stop being so sensitive about what people say is cool or not
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As an analogy, the "old" Nightclub 930 was comparable to the old WHFS's programming department.
And the new 930 to the new & improved 'HFS as well...
BTW: ...Sorry for existing. I'm simply waiting for Dr.Kevorkian's parole.
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maybe justin timberlake is crap. maybe everything you or i listen to is crap. if about a thousand people, many of whom are probably going to his show at mci as well, want to drop $45 to see him and have a great time, what difference is it to you? nobody's making anybody listen, or go to the show.
news flash: musical taste is subjective. it cannot be quantified.
everything is crap to somebody.
i'm curious as to why you assume that the music you like is dismissed based on ignorance, but that timberlake is popular just because of spending power. it seems an awfully biased way of looking at things to me.
if it's possible that you have listened to both types of music and decided on one option, it's possible that others have done the same and decided on another option. it's also possible that there are people that listen to both. odd how that works, isn't it?
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Originally posted by thatguy:
maybe justin timberlake is crap. maybe everything you or i listen to is crap. if about a thousand people, many of whom are probably going to his show at mci as well, want to drop $45 to see him and have a great time, what difference is it to you? nobody's making anybody listen, or go to the show.
news flash: musical taste is subjective. it cannot be quantified.
everything is crap to somebody.
i'm curious as to why you assume that the music you like is dismissed based on ignorance, but that timberlake is popular just because of spending power. it seems an awfully biased way of looking at things to me.
if it's possible that you have listened to both types of music and decided on one option, it's possible that others have done the same and decided on another option. it's also possible that there are people that listen to both. odd how that works, isn't it?
ig·no·rance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-ns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
I know from experience that most people (outside of this board) have never heard of a lot of the music I listen to, and therefore are ignorant of it. I also am guessing a lot of people heard of Justin Timberlake because there is a lot of money being spent to make it that way. My point being what does it hurt if I state my opinion that Justin Timberlake sucks. He will still sell tickets for $45, so why do you care if I say anything about him.
and the fact is, this is not about being cool or not, a lot of bands that I like struggle to make it because of the music industry, if people heard them, they would probably be pretty succesful, i bet if you take any song and play it on the radio a lot it will be successful, so it pisses me off to see Justin Timberlake get this kind of success because years ago he was probably picked out of some audition to be in a boy band and sing music written by somebody else
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Originally posted by +H? ?ömþæ¥ Ððør§:
As an analogy, the "old" Nightclub 930 was comparable to the old WHFS's programming department.
And the new 930 to the new & improved 'HFS as well...
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I booked both the old and the new 930, and my criteria has never changed - I try and book:
A. what I think people want to see
B. what I think people need to start seeing
C. what I think might turn some heads, good or bad
as there are only so many nights on the calendar, I often have to pick between several different shows available. that is probably where people pick up on our preferences, as we tend to book what we think are more "important" stuff, artistically and/or culturally.
but, rest assured, if nobody else wanted the dates, and we could book a month of Justin Timberlake sell-outs, I'd do it with no apologies.
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
the 21 and over thing was totally Justin's deal. he is definitely trying to establish the aforementioned "cred", and wanted it to be grown-ups only, presumably to be more performance-oriented and less screamy. also, because it's such a late show, the thought was that it might be irresponsible to allow such a young crowd to be defying mommy & daddy and coming down to the bowels of the U Street corridor after Metro. or maybe they were trying to protect mommy & daddy. in any event, we didn't feel it was worth fighting over. had it been a regular showtime, we definitely would have.
Thank you for answering what was actually a semi-serious question (I just wanted to see how you spun it). It's too bad it became stupid flamefest.
who is to say what is hip and what is not?
Thirty years ago, Tower of Power sang a song that says all you need to know:
So you want to jump out your trick bag
And ease on into a hip bag
But you ain't just exactly sure what's hip
So you start to let your hair grow
Spend big bucks to cop you a wardrobe
But somehow you know there's much more to the trip
chorus
WHAT IS HIP?
Tell me - tell me if you think you know
WHAT IS HIP?
If you was really hip
The passing years would show
You into a hip trip
Maybe hipper than hip
But WHAT IS HIP?
So you become part of the new breed
Been smokin' only the best weed
Been hangin' out on the so-called hippest set
Been seen at all the right places
Been seen with just the right faces
You should be satisfied
Still it ain't quite right
chorus
bridge
Hipness is - What it is! ( X 3)
And sometimes hipness is
What it ain't!
You done even went and found you a guru
In your effort to find you a new you
And maybe even managed
To raise your conscious level
As you striving to find the right road
There's one thing you should know
What's hip today
Might become passe
chorus to end
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I can only speak for myself here but personally, I appreciate it when the club books an act now and then that I have no fucking interest in. As much as I want an exclusive 6 bedroom penthouse apartment hooked up with the 9:30 Club, it ain't happening. There is no way on this Earth that I can afford the time or the money to attend the club 3 or more nights a week, every week. And that doesn't even count the drive from north of Baltimore that I have to contend with!
In the meantime, I think it's great that the club use what they have to offer to please others and (hopefully) rake in some good cash so that we (the hipsters.... :D :roll: ) can continue to see all the cool shows that we get to see, some on a very initmate and non-profitable basis.
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It's justin timberlake. it's a monday night. It's after 11 frickin' 30 at night. I'd never go to it, it's a crazy ass time, it's certainly not keeping any band out that I *would* have gone to see that late on a Monday night.
So what do I care? I think it's a hoot that Justin is going to bring in so much crazy money to the 9:30 Club, and actually, the idea of an adult show after the craziness that must be the MCI center show is really intriguing -- I can't wait to hear about it. Hell, Justin's helping to pay for my Idlewild and Mike Doughty shows.
Seth, go for it my man. D.C. is a big city, and i love that I can both count on the 9:30 club for 5 - 10 shows I month I want to go to, and on the other nights, there are shows *other* folks want to go to.
Why do people get so wound up over things like this?
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.... I actually like, "Justified" and would go if he sings, "Gone".
Seth: Good call on the Prof. Griff gig. Some promoters would had booked the guy regardless of what he has said about ethnic groups.
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so, why werent the White Stripes booked?
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Originally posted by jadetree:
My point being what does it hurt if I state my opinion that Justin Timberlake sucks. He will still sell tickets for $45, so why do you care if I say anything about him.
it doesn't hurt anything (until your negativity comes back to you eventually), and i couldn't possibly care less if you state that opinion.
what point does it serve, though? does it make the bands that you like any more successful? why rain on someone's parade? why begrudge someone the enjoyment they get out of an artist just because you don't happen to share their opinion of the music? why go out of your way to spend your energy to do something negative when you could be doing something positive instead? why not post a message praising a band that you think is just great in place of a message belittling a band you don't like?
i know, i'm a frikkin' hippie.
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Originally posted by Rupert Pupkin:
so, why werent the White Stripes booked?
what are you talking about? the white stripes played the club sometime last year, and they are booked to play an IMP show at GW in november.
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Oh, cry me a river, fer Christ's sake! Keep it up and we'll send Atomic Kitten over for your listening pleasure. :p
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Originally posted by thatguy:
i know, i'm a frikkin' hippie. [/b]
well you don't look like a frikkin' hippie
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Originally posted by thatguy:
what point does it serve, though? does it make the bands that you like any more successful? why rain on someone's parade? why begrudge someone the enjoyment they get out of an artist just because you don't happen to share their opinion of the music? why go out of your way to spend your energy to do something negative when you could be doing something positive instead? why not post a message praising a band that you think is just great in place of a message belittling a band you don't like?
I second this opinion!
And as for Justin Timberlake: Though I can't quite figure him out or really get into his tunes, I am pretty curious about this show. Will he do costume changes or have dancers? Or is this just a straight set? If anyone goes, please report back.
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Mr. Timberlake will be subject to my wait five years rule... Where I'll choose to start listening to him long after the hype and over exposure wears off. Five years down the road The Spice Girls turned out to better than I expected. There is northing wrong will catchy pop songs as long as their well done, and sometimes their even better when it's become kitschy ala ABBA.
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Well, I purchased a ticket and plan on going to the show. I suppose that makes me incredibly "uncool". Does it make me any "cooler" if I tell that I only own three "teen pop" albums? Does it make me any "cooler" if I tell you that the last show I went to was A Perfect Circle at the 9:30 Club? Does it make me any "cooler" if I tell you about the absurd amount of Smashing Pumpkins bootlegs I own? Does it make me any "cooler" if I tell you about all the "indie/underground" bands I've seen live?
Music is music. For me, I don't base my tastes on what is "cool" or "hip" or "indie" or whatever. I don't feel the need to restrict myself to one style of music. I like what I like when I like it. I'm not a 16 year old TRL fanatic, but I'll admit that I do like a lot of Justin Timberlake's songs. I'm not going to the show at the MCI Center...I'm not willing to pay that much money for those tickets and I don't want to be surrounded by screaming pre-teen/teen girls. So yeah, I'm going to go check out the show at the 9:30 Club. Maybe it'll suck, maybe it won't. But, I'm curious to see him live.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Mr. Timberlake will be subject to my wait five years rule... Where I'll choose to start listening to him long after the hype and over exposure wears off. Five years down the road The Spice Girls turned out to better than I expected. There is northing wrong will catchy pop songs as long as their well done, and sometimes their even better when it's become kitschy ala ABBA.
Ummm. He's already been around for five years. :p
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X
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No. A Perfect Circle are a major label band with zero indie cred.
Seriously folks, why all the big stink? This is not a hip indie artsy city with a cool local radio station to support the scene. This is a city of policy wanks and lawyers. Sure, there is a small indie rock scene, but most people here prefer major label music, be it Justin Timberlake or Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, be it Michelle Branch or the Dandy Warhols, and that is what a club the size of the 9:30 Club is going to have to cater to.
Originally posted by BlueStar:
Well, I purchased a ticket and plan on going to the show. I suppose that makes me incredibly "uncool". Does it make me any "cooler" if I tell that I only own three "teen pop" albums? Does it make me any "cooler" if I tell you that the last show I went to was A Perfect Circle at the 9:30 Club? Does it make me any "cooler" if I tell you about the absurd amount of Smashing Pumpkins bootlegs I own? Does it make me any "cooler" if I tell you about all the "indie/underground" bands I've seen live?
Music is music. For me, I don't base my tastes on what is "cool" or "hip" or "indie" or whatever. I don't feel the need to restrict myself to one style of music. I like what I like when I like it. I'm not a 16 year old TRL fanatic, but I'll admit that I do like a lot of Justin Timberlake's songs. I'm not going to the show at the MCI Center...I'm not willing to pay that much money for those tickets and I don't want to be surrounded by screaming pre-teen/teen girls. So yeah, I'm going to go check out the show at the 9:30 Club. Maybe it'll suck, maybe it won't. But, I'm curious to see him live.
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Originally posted by Yank:
Oh, cry me a river, fer Christ's sake! Keep it up and we'll send Atomic Kitten over for your listening pleasure. :p
They're already here. Cable networks such as The Disney Channel and Nickelodeon plays their video, "The Tide Is High" almost nonstop.
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How are we supposed to raise our flagging self-image if you won't let us rag on the beautiful people?
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It is funny how most of the people talking about the cool factor are those who say it doesn't matter, I could care less if Justin Timberlake is cool or not, I think he sucks and is not worthy of the attention he gets, those who like him will have fun whatever I say and if they don't because of what I said, well then they just aren't very happy are they. As far as saying positive things, I do say when I like things, and I get crap for some of them, but I don't cry and say I am not listening to that anymore because somebody on the Internet told me it was not cool. I just don't get why everyone has to be so sensitive, if you just like what you want to like, who the hell cares.
As for always being happy, I loved the show at the club last night, I wish the sex pistols would have been happy in the 70s though, because I am sure they would have made the same great music. They should not have been critical like they were in their songs, might have made somebody unhappy. Lots of people are calling the sex pistols sell outs now, did it ruin the show for me? No.
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Jadetree likes Hootie & The Blowfish.
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did you not get the memo on Dischord or Teenbeat Records?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
No. A Perfect Circle are a major label band with zero indie cred.
Seriously folks, why all the big stink? This is not a hip indie artsy city with a cool local radio station to support the scene. This is a city of policy wanks and lawyers. Sure, there is a small indie rock scene, but most people here prefer major label music, be it Justin Timberlake or Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, be it Michelle Branch or the Dandy Warhols, and that is what a club the size of the 9:30 Club is going to have to cater to.
I agree with Rhett for once. And i think there is WAY too much negativity on this board at certain times. Christ, you guys could all live in Baltimore where you only get 1/3 of the shows and the rest you have to drive 40 minutes too :)
But I have heard Justin Timberlakes album, and i think it sucks and should never be played out loud. But i have to work tonight , so I dont care about the show...but i may go to the Britney Spears thing next week.
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by the way , this thread made me think of a quote that belongs here:
"It is better to be a neighbour of a field than to be a neighbour of one who speaks badly."
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It's perfectly ok to not like a certain artist or band or whoever.... but it's far too confusing when instead of saying "I just think he/she/they are not good" and coming across as though you are saying "I just think he/she/they are not cool" -- and not really clarifying until everyone has gotten their panties in a twist over it. Personally, I didn't think Justin Timberlake was that talented when he was in his boy band days. However, from hearing some of his music and seeing how he is compared to 5 years ago, I think he's talented in some form. It may not be the music I like, and yea, I will make fun of him because of the boy band days, but it's far too easy to dismiss him as some shitty act. Actually I think it's a cool thing that he wanted his show to be 21+ because then people won't have the excuse "I don't want to be surrounded by little annoying girls" to fall back on when they really want to go but are afraid to admit it.
So. To conclude my point:
Who the Fuck cares about Justin Timberlake? Let's stop being negative and waste our time on this board talking about something funny, like Enrique Iglesias' mole.
Mr. Josh Thatguy is a hippie! Who knew? That is awesome.
Kurosawa and I really are alike.
And one last side note - Rhett, if you don't like the lack of DC's indie scene and all of that crap, and if it really bothers you (I'm not sure if it does or not).. why don't you just Move!!! :p
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
by the way , this thread made me think of a quote that belongs here:
"It is better to be a neighbour of a field than to be a neighbour of one who speaks badly."
I thought of this one from the stepford wives-
"If you tell me you don't like this dress, I'm sticking my head right in the oven."
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The most reassuring point in this thread was Seth's comment about Prof Griff. I think that says more about quality booking that 20 pages of argument about Timberlake. Clearly Seth is not going to book anyone just to sell tickets (Well there was that Steve O tour, but I won't say anything if you don't).
Look at it this way. If we were in the UK and King Robbie was book to play the club in our town, people would come out of the woodwork to say how horrible he is. If Justin was booked, we'd probably go to see the "big US pop-star". If the JT shows was say $20 cheaper and not 21+ I'd probably go. And if Robbie came back I'd see him in a second. Pop music elitism is kind of tiresome, there's a reason why more folks are listening to Neptunes than say Pavement, not that there's anything wrong with that.
And with that I think I need to preorder my Andrew WK album.
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Jadetree,
I dont like your dress.
Musical elitism is fine. But hey I love my pop too and can stand to listen to a whole Robbie Williams album. I just dont think Timberlakes music is any good. I mean can you really remember the words or the melody or anything about one of his songs after its played? Plus I dont think he is pretty either. Lets face it he is no Joey fatone.
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Originally posted by mjnova:
The most reassuring point in this thread was Seth's comment about Prof Griff. I think that says more about quality booking that 20 pages of argument about Timberlake. Clearly Seth is not going to book anyone just to sell tickets (Well there was that Steve O tour, but I won't say anything if you don't).
Look at it this way. If we were in the UK and King Robbie was book to play the club in our town, people would come out of the woodwork to say how horrible he is. If Justin was booked, we'd probably go to see the "big US pop-star". If the JT shows was say $20 cheaper and not 21+ I'd probably go. And if Robbie came back I'd see him in a second. Pop music elitism is kind of tiresome, there's a reason why more folks are listening to Neptunes than say Pavement, not that there's anything wrong with that.
And with that I think I need to preorder my Andrew WK album.
Pop culture crap aside, the Neptunes are MUCH better and i think, more talented than Pavement.
but you wont hear me blasting the Neptunes in my car downtown.....
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Originally posted by BlueStar:
Well, I purchased a ticket and plan on going to the show. I suppose that makes me incredibly "uncool". ... So yeah, I'm going to go check out the show at the 9:30 Club. Maybe it'll suck, maybe it won't. But, I'm curious to see him live.
I'm with you. If I hadn't gone to a show every night this weekend, it weren't Monday and it was, say, Thursday, I'd be highly tempted to go myself, just to see what the deal is.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
No. A Perfect Circle are a major label band with zero indie cred.
Seriously folks, why all the big stink? This is not a hip indie artsy city with a cool local radio station to support the scene. This is a city of policy wanks and lawyers. Sure, there is a small indie rock scene, but most people here prefer major label music, be it Justin Timberlake or Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, be it Michelle Branch or the Dandy Warhols, and that is what a club the size of the 9:30 Club is going to have to cater to.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
DAMN you are tough, Rhett. Remind me not to show you my cd collection; many of the bands can be found on Allmusicguide. What a mainstream loser I am.
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Jadetree,
I dont like your dress.
Musical elitism is fine. But hey I love my pop too and can stand to listen to a whole Robbie Williams album. I just dont think Timberlakes music is any good. I mean can you really remember the words or the melody or anything about one of his songs after its played? Plus I dont think he is pretty either. Lets face it he is no Joey fatone.
If you can't acknowledge that Cry Me A River is one of the most inventive pop songs in ages, and that Like I Love You is the best Michael Jackson rip off possibly ever, than you should probably have your ears checked. Robbie writes some nice breezy summer day tunes, but that's about it. I still love his first two (British) albums, though.
And speaking of Joey, let's remember, Robbie was "the fat one" from his little boy band, and look how he turned out.
When you look at who's pushing boundries in music right now Missy Elliot has most folks beat by a mile. The best "indie" band of last year was a Joy Division cover band, which is great cause they were way before my time, but pop music is surprisingly enjoyable of late.
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You agree with Rhett, but are down on all the negativity? That's a paradox, or an oxymoron -- you know what I mean.
Because I agree with you, Sonick. We get almost every band, major and indie, come through DC, and that's pretty damn awesome. I want to know where these "good Indie mecca cities" are Rhett seems to be referring to. Okay, you're gonna tell me Austin and Minneapolis. Doesn't mean DC sucks, though.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
No. A Perfect Circle are a major label band with zero indie cred.
Seriously folks, why all the big stink? This is not a hip indie artsy city with a cool local radio station to support the scene. This is a city of policy wanks and lawyers. Sure, there is a small indie rock scene, but most people here prefer major label music, be it Justin Timberlake or Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, be it Michelle Branch or the Dandy Warhols, and that is what a club the size of the 9:30 Club is going to have to cater to.
I agree with Rhett for once. And i think there is WAY too much negativity on this board at certain times. Christ, you guys could all live in Baltimore where you only get 1/3 of the shows and the rest you have to drive 40 minutes too :)
But I have heard Justin Timberlakes album, and i think it sucks and should never be played out loud. But i have to work tonight , so I dont care about the show...but i may go to the Britney Spears thing next week. [/b]
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First of all, i think indie style rock is having a great year even before brmc and the strokes put out albums in the next two months. second, how can you praise justin timberlake for doing a good michael jackson impersanation and than knock interpol for being a joy division rip off?
i'm very curious to know what the crowd is like for a sold out 21+ Justin Timberlake show at 1 am on a Monday.
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I think we get a lot of great indie bands that play this area. Just that the tend to play Black Cat, Iota, Velvet Lounge, and not 9:30 Club.
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Originally posted by Mobius:
First of all, i think indie style rock is having a great year even before brmc and the strokes put out albums in the next two months. second, how can you praise justin timberlake for doing a good michael jackson impersanation and than knock interpol for being a joy division rip off?
i'm very curious to know what the crowd is like for a sold out 21+ Justin Timberlake show at 1 am on a Monday.
He said he couldn't remember the melodies of the songs, and I think he's full of crap and hasn't even heard any singles all the way through. One of his singles was extreamly inventive, the other was a very catchy rip off. So that's a .500 batting average.
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Originally posted by mjnova:
So that's a .500 batting average. [/b]
or it means that half of his songs are shit.
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Originally posted by mjnova:
I think he's full of crap
You are probably right. Good to get to the level of insults straight away.
I have seen his videos on MTV multiple times. I will listen again now you have all defended him so vehemently.
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by mjnova:
I think he's full of crap
You are probably right. Good to get to the level of insults straight away.
I have seen his videos on MTV multiple times. I will listen again now you have all defended him so vehemently. [/b]
I'm just saying while not being a particularly big fan I find that he has quite good singles, and you're probably just dismissing them out of hand to be reactionary.
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Originally posted by Mobius:
First of all, i think indie style rock is having a great year even before brmc and the strokes put out albums in the next two months.
to say that the strokes have anything to do with 'indie style rock' is ridiculous. they are a pop band as much as anything else.
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What exactly is "indie" about BRMC? They are on Virgin What exactly is "indie" about the Strokes. They are on RCA. Has indie rock went the way that "alternative rock" went, and just become a marketing tool? I thought indie rock implied indie label, hence the name?
Originally posted by Mobius:
First of all, i think indie style rock is having a great year even before brmc and the strokes put out albums in the next two months. second, how can you praise justin timberlake for doing a good michael jackson impersanation and than knock interpol for being a joy division rip off?
i'm very curious to know what the crowd is like for a sold out 21+ Justin Timberlake show at 1 am on a Monday.
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Originally posted by sparky:
Originally posted by Mobius:
First of all, i think indie style rock is having a great year even before brmc and the strokes put out albums in the next two months.
to say that the strokes have anything to do with 'indie style rock' is ridiculous. they are a pop band as much as anything else. [/b]
I thought every band with shaggy haircuts was indie style rock? shit.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
What exactly is "indie" about BRMC? They are on Virgin What exactly is "indie" about the Strokes. They are on RCA. Has indie rock went the way that "alternative rock" went, and just become a marketing tool? I thought indie rock implied indie label, hence the name?
would that make the White Stripes an Indie band? (they are V2 right?)
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That's why I said indie "style" instead of indie. I really don't what indie is, but I'd say, other than technically, brmc, white stripes and the strokes still "feel" indie (of course, i haven't heard the new brmc or strokes so that's an assumption). each band still lives in its own universe despite big label support. you could say that also makes a band like phish indie, and that's probably true- just not indie rock, more like indie shit.
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The Strokes and Stripes are just as shitty to me as Phish is. So it's really all subjective.
Originally posted by Mobius:
That's why I said indie "style" instead of indie. I really don't what indie is, but I'd say, other than technically, brmc, white stripes and the strokes still "feel" indie (of course, i haven't heard the new brmc or strokes so that's an assumption). each band still lives in its own universe despite big label support. you could say that also makes a band like phish indie, and that's probably true- just not indie rock, more like indie shit.
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Originally posted by Mobius:
you could say that also makes a band like phish indie, and that's probably true- just not indie rock, more like indie shit.
HA ha ha -- bravo, Mobius.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
The Strokes and Stripes are just as shitty to me as Phish is. So it's really all subjective.
Originally posted by Mobius:
That's why I said indie "style" instead of indie. I really don't what indie is, but I'd say, other than technically, brmc, white stripes and the strokes still "feel" indie (of course, i haven't heard the new brmc or strokes so that's an assumption). each band still lives in its own universe despite big label support. you could say that also makes a band like phish indie, and that's probably true- just not indie rock, more like indie shit.
[/b]
You finally said something that I can agree with
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
The Strokes and Stripes are just as shitty to me as Phish is. So it's really all subjective.
i thought you were being technical? now you are being subjective? hmmm, i think that makes Rhett pretty "indie"
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Originally posted by Mobius:
That's why I said indie "style" instead of indie. I really don't what indie is, but I'd say, other than technically, brmc, white stripes and the strokes still "feel" indie ...each band still lives in its own universe despite big label support...
what a load of crap
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[rhett]Only alt.country bands that play at iota are truly indie. The rest of the 'indie' crap is flavor-of-the-week mass market drivel that is being force-fed to you sheep waiting at the trough of commercialized coolness.[/rhett]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
The Strokes and Stripes are just as shitty to me as Phish is. So it's really all subjective.
everyone quit putting the Strokes and the White Stripes in the same category. They sound NOTHING alike, arent on the same label, and just because they played a FEW shows together and the same group of truck driver hat hipsters and trendy college/high school kids listen to them, does not mean they need to be mentioned in the same breath (unless you wanna say you hate them both, i suppose)
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ha ha...
seriously, though, we can all admit that the term "indie" doesn't really mean "indie" anymore...same thing for movies...once you have to put the word "style" after a descriptor, that kinda signals that your term has been diluted...
now Joe Pernice...he's indie
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Originally posted by bags:
DAMN you are tough, Rhett. Remind me not to show you my cd collection; many of the bands can be found on Allmusicguide. What a mainstream loser I am. [/b]
bags, just remember, if it was Rhett's cd collection it wouldn't be mainstream...it would be alt-country. ;)
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Yeah it's been diluted, but mostly across the board we understand what it means. So who cares, because that's all that really matters when you're trying to communicate a thought, no? That you communicate it in such a way as to achieve a mutual understanding?
In my opinion, indie rock or pop is definitely a particular style. When someone describes a band that way, I feel like I have some sense of where they're coming from.
Originally posted by Celeste:
ha ha...
seriously, though, we can all admit that the term "indie" doesn't really mean "indie" anymore...same thing for movies...once you have to put the word "style" after a descriptor, that kinda signals that your term has been diluted...
now Joe Pernice...he's indie
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the strokes and the white stripes were both signed to small indie labels, initially, where they gained their indie cred. But when someone says indie rock or indie pop to me, it makes me think of types of music not what record labels a band maybe on. The term has transcended its original meaning.
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Hmmm, I'm not so familiar with that whole alt.country thing. Is there an indie branch to that as well?? ;) [/b][/quote]
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I think Wilco is pretty Indie, i mean, didnt they BUY their own record back from the label so they could release it on an independant label?
thats so indie, its unreal.....they payed like half a million dollars to be indie.
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Originally posted by Celeste:
now Joe Pernice...he's indie
yeah, he is on subpop, right? Do you think if he sold a half a million albums he would stay on Subpop?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
I think Wilco is pretty Indie.
Yeah, Sire and Warner were pretty great indie labels.
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Celeste:
now Joe Pernice...he's indie
yeah, he is on subpop, right? Do you think if he sold a half a million albums he would stay on Subpop? [/b]
Probably not. But if he went major, Rhett would resort to the old "I like his earlier stuff much better" claim.
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Celeste:
now Joe Pernice...he's indie
yeah, he is on subpop, right? Do you think if he sold a half a million albums he would stay on Subpop? [/b]
Nope, he'd graduate to alt-country. ;)
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
I think Wilco is pretty Indie.
Yeah, Sire and Warner were pretty great indie labels. [/b]
my point exactly
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
I think Wilco is pretty Indie, i mean, didnt they BUY their own record back from the label so they could release it on an independant label?
thats so indie, its unreal.....they payed like half a million dollars to be indie.
They got their record back from one Warner label and then sold it to another Warner label.
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Originally posted by ggw?:
They got their record back from one Warner label and then sold it to another Warner label. [/b]
i thought YTF was on Nonesuch Records, are they owned by Warner? i just remember the article on how Wilco was "suddenly Indie" and how i wished i had like them from the beginning.... haha
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Nonesuch is distributed by Warner.
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Originally posted by Member 656:
Nonesuch is distributed by Warner.
wilco are liars AND hipsters...piss on them.
oh wait...positivity.......uh, I liked the Wilco show i was at this summer, the music was VERY VERY good. It was quite catchy and better than I thought it was going to be. I was thinking "man, i sure am having fun at a Wilco concert!!!" and then, Fountains of Wayne finished and we left , cause i didnt really wanna stay til WIlco came onstage....
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Originally posted by Member 656:
Nonesuch is distributed by Warner.
Nonesuch is owned by Warner Music Group.
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Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by Member 656:
Nonesuch is distributed by Warner.
Nonesuch is owned by Warner Music Group. [/b]
Well.. that too.
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The beauty of this board...
we can go from talking about Justin Timberlake's real age to whether or not he is actually talented to being a hippie and spreading positivity to talking about what classifies a band as indie to how wilco sucks at life.
i love it. :)
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42
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The beauty of this board...
we can go from talking about Justin Timberlake's real age to whether or not he is actually talented to being a hippie and spreading positivity to talking about what classifies a band as indie to how wilco sucks at life.
i love it.
I think its called ADD
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Actually, he is not on Subpop. He has releases his last two album on Ashmont, which is bascially just him and one other person working out of their own little office.
He dropped off of Subpop so that he could have more control and self-release his music..now THAT'S indie.
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Celeste:
now Joe Pernice...he's indie
yeah, he is on subpop, right? Do you think if he sold a half a million albums he would stay on Subpop? [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
now THAT'S indie.
Can we clear some things up:
White Stripes: Multiple albums on Sympathy an honest to goodness independant label. Then signed with V2. I would say they now fall into the vast black hole of "Alternative" which is another can of worms. But for a good while they were a legitimate indie band.
Strokes : One, maybe 2 eps on indie labels but jumped to a major as fast as humanly possible. Although they had college radio backing they were never really "indie". Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins got played on college radio but indie they isn't. Another "Alternative" band.
BRMC : Uh, they're on what, V2? Not particularly indie. I mean, they don't get much play on mainstream radio but, SHOCKING, neither does a lot of stuff on major labels. Not getting played every hour on HFS when you're on a major =/= indie.
I'm listening to Green Day right now for the first time in ages. Are they a "punk" band? Damned if I know.
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Originally posted by mjnova:
Can we clear some things up:
White Stripes: Multiple albums on Sympathy an honest to goodness independant label. Then signed with V2. I would say they now fall into the vast black hole of "Alternative" which is another can of worms. But for a good while they were a legitimate indie band.
By all accounts, they didn't make any royalties while on Sympathy. V2 offered them a sweetheart deal which included the oft-mentioned "full artistic control" - which is why people sign or stay with indies, isn't it?
So if they still have control over their output, and have somebody who can do more for them than Long Gone John could, isn't that a good thing?
So, if you still play the same style of music, but jump to a major label, do you lose the "indie" title simply because you are actually making money now?
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Originally posted by ggw?:
[simply because you are actually making money now?
I am with you on this one GGW....
as for the strokes well they released 4 singles on roughtrade:
http://www.roughtraderecords.com/ (http://www.roughtraderecords.com/)
if you take b-sides then they must make up over half of their album. So does that make it an indie album afterall?
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I say yes, you do lose the "indie" tag. But who said indie=good, majors=bad?
Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by mjnova:
Can we clear some things up:
White Stripes: Multiple albums on Sympathy an honest to goodness independant label. Then signed with V2. I would say they now fall into the vast black hole of "Alternative" which is another can of worms. But for a good while they were a legitimate indie band.
By all accounts, they didn't make any royalties while on Sympathy. V2 offered them a sweetheart deal which included the oft-mentioned "full artistic control" - which is why people sign or stay with indies, isn't it?
So if they still have control over their output, and have somebody who can do more for them than Long Gone John could, isn't that a good thing?
So, if you still play the same style of music, but jump to a major label, do you lose the "indie" title simply because you are actually making money now? [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
But who said indie=good, majors=bad?
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Well if the major is only interested in manufactured pop, written by some dodgy songwriting team, like the matrix. Then majors are bad. For the strokes and whitestripes I dont think it matters except they get more media space.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I say yes, you do lose the "indie" tag. But who said indie=good, majors=bad?
Nobody. But "indie" is more often used to describe a band's style of music than to describe the band's business arrangements. I mean, you call a band alt-country whether they are on a major or an independent. Same with metal. But when someone says an "indie" band, do you think, "A band that is not business partners with a multi-national recording company?" Or do you take that term to mean they sound unlike what is generally played on the narrow confines of radio and MTV?
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by ggw™:
[simply because you are actually making money now?
I am with you on this one GGW....
as for the strokes well they released 4 singles on roughtrade:
http://www.roughtraderecords.com/ (http://www.roughtraderecords.com/)
if you take b-sides then they must make up over half of their album. So does that make it an indie album afterall? [/b]
The Strokes were inevitably gonna jump ship for a major.
I think if you get more than one song consistantly played on a corperate radio station that weakens your indieness. I know I know, the band has nothing technically to do with it, but if they have multiple tunes deemed palpable for the masses than it it's tougher to lump them in with the indie crowd.
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ppssst, ggw, for some reason we're not getting anywhere with these explanations. Valiant attempt, though.
Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I say yes, you do lose the "indie" tag. But who said indie=good, majors=bad?
Nobody. But "indie" is more often used to describe a band's style of music than to describe the band's business arrangements. I mean, you call a band alt-country whether they are on a major or an independent. Same with metal. But when someone says an "indie" band, do you think, "A band that is not business partners with a multi-national recording company?" Or do you take that term to mean they sound unlike what is generally played on the narrow confines of radio and MTV? [/b]
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I dunno, I always took indie to mean a bands record label status. indie=independent.
There can be indie bands that are alt-country, lo-fi, shoegazer, trip-hop, whatever. But that's just my opinion.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I dunno, I always took indie to mean a bands record label status. indie=independent.
There can be indie bands that are alt-country, lo-fi, shoegazer, trip-hop, whatever. But that's just my opinion.
I think that's too hard and fast. There are bands on majors who are still concidered indie for whatever reason. Wilco being a prime example. But that's more in keeping with my radio example. If folks in the mainstream don't hear the band then they're not necessissarily mainstream even if they're on say Capitol (which does a good job of working with college radio).
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At least one person agrees with me...
http://www.llarion.com/likes.htm (http://www.llarion.com/likes.htm)
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Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I say yes, you do lose the "indie" tag. But who said indie=good, majors=bad?
Nobody. But "indie" is more often used to describe a band's style of music than to describe the band's business arrangements. I mean, you call a band alt-country whether they are on a major or an independent. Same with metal. But when someone says an "indie" band, do you think, "A band that is not business partners with a multi-national recording company?" Or do you take that term to mean they sound unlike what is generally played on the narrow confines of radio and MTV? [/b]
I agree totally here. "indie" came from Independent. However, it has grown to more than that. Because when i say "alternative", thats Smashing Pumpkins, Our Lady Peace, Staind, blah blah blah, whatever. And then theres Indie which is the likes of bands on Victory, Sup-Pop, TVT (are they independent still?) XL , V2 , whatever, but if Badly Drawn Boy was on an independent label and then he signed to Warner, what would he be then? Alternative? nooooo, i dont think so, and isnt Dashboard Confessional on an indie label still?
The point is , we ALL know what "indie" originally meant, but it has kinda changed the way its thrown around, unless you are really old and out of touch i suppose.
i dont even like to use the word indie for this reason , however.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
At least one person agrees with me...
http://www.llarion.com/likes.htm (http://www.llarion.com/likes.htm)
That guy sounds like your type, Rhett.
In addition to all those pictures of his "kitties," he's got this great tidbit about his background:
I thought I'd tell you a little bit about my best friend in the world, the late Aaron Michael Leonard. Mikey and I met in the fall of 1977, rehearsing for The Wiz. I was the Lion, he was several parts in the chorus.
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i DON'T LIKE CATS OR NEGRO MUSICALS
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So basically, "indie" is an ever changing, ever evolving phrase which basically means whatever music sonick happens to like at the moment.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I say yes, you do lose the "indie" tag. But who said indie=good, majors=bad?
Nobody. But "indie" is more often used to describe a band's style of music than to describe the band's business arrangements. I mean, you call a band alt-country whether they are on a major or an independent. Same with metal. But when someone says an "indie" band, do you think, "A band that is not business partners with a multi-national recording company?" Or do you take that term to mean they sound unlike what is generally played on the narrow confines of radio and MTV? [/b]
I agree totally here. "indie" came from Independent. However, it has grown to more than that. Because when i say "alternative", thats Smashing Pumpkins, Our Lady Peace, Staind, blah blah blah, whatever. And then theres Indie which is the likes of bands on Victory, Sup-Pop, TVT (are they independent still?) XL , V2 , whatever, but if Badly Drawn Boy was on an independent label and then he signed to Warner, what would he be then? Alternative? nooooo, i dont think so, and isnt Dashboard Confessional on an indie label still?
The point is , we ALL know what "indie" originally meant, but it has kinda changed the way its thrown around, unless you are really old and out of touch i suppose.
i dont even like to use the word indie for this reason , however. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
So basically, "indie" is an ever changing, ever evolving phrase
words never start out meaning one thing and get used for something else?
deck1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dk)
n.
A platform extending horizontally from one side of a ship to the other.
A platform or surface likened to a ship's deck.
A roofless, floored structure, typically with a railing, that adjoins a house.
The roadway of a bridge or an elevated freeway.
A pack of playing cards.
A group of data processing cards.
A tape deck.
Slang. A packet of narcotics.
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Dashboard Confessional...
Vagrant/ Interscope Records
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thank you Anton
Rhett is old and has been listening to so much alt-country lately , he has trouble understanding things. And is starting to talk nonsense.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
So basically, "indie" is an ever changing, ever evolving phrase which basically means whatever music sonick happens to like at the moment.
Rhett, dont you remember , I like "mainstream" stuff like Radiohead and Kenna and The Music, thats not indie.
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SOMEDAY YOU'LL BE AS OLD AS I AM NOW AND MAYBE EVEN HALF AS WISE
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
thank you Anton
Anytime.....
I think the word changed in meaning for me when I discovered indie music charts in the mid to late 80's Erasure and Depeche Mode always seemed to be #1 , Mute is an in dependent. Yet neither band really fit in with anything else on the chart....... I dont think of them as indie bands, because their sound was so mainstream.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
WISE
Wise enough to turn "caps" off after typing in code?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
SOMEDAY YOU'LL BE AS OLD AS I AM NOW AND MAYBE EVEN HALF AS WISE
i am sorry rhett, dont yell at me.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
SOMEDAY YOU'LL BE AS OLD AS I AM NOW AND MAYBE EVEN HALF AS WISE
Sometimes I'm confused why people come to web boards and interject endlessly when they hate everything that's talked about. Maybe it's some kinda genetic defect. If I was a doctor I'd research it. Interesting stuff, to say the least.
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i DON'T HATE EVERYTHING THAT IS TALKED ABOUT, JUST most OF IT. IT'S CALLED QUALITY CONTROL. IF I LIKED EVERYTHING, OR EVEN MOST THINGS, I WOULDN'T HAVE ANY TASTE. IT'S THE FACT THAT I ONLY LIKE A SMALL MINORITY OF MUSIC THAT MEANS I ACTUALLY HAVE TASTE. NOT NECESSARILY GOOD TASTE, BECAUSE TASTE IS SUBJECTIVE MIND YOU, BUT IF YOU LIKE most OF THE MUSIC THAT IS DISCUSSED ON THIS BOARD, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE DISCERNING ENOUGH TASTE.
Originally posted by mjnova:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
SOMEDAY YOU'LL BE AS OLD AS I AM NOW AND MAYBE EVEN HALF AS WISE
Sometimes I'm confused why people come to web boards and interject endlessly when they hate everything that's talked about. Maybe it's some kinda genetic defect. If I was a doctor I'd research it. Interesting stuff, to say the least. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
i DON'T HATE EVERYTHING THAT IS TALKED ABOUT, JUST most OF IT. IT'S CALLED QUALITY CONTROL. IF I LIKED EVERYTHING, OR EVEN MOST THINGS, I WOULDN'T HAVE ANY TASTE. IT'S THE FACT THAT I ONLY LIKE A SMALL MINORITY OF MUSIC THAT MEANS I ACTUALLY HAVE TASTE. NOT NECESSARILY GOOD TASTE, BECAUSE TASTE IS SUBJECTIVE MIND YOU, BUT IF YOU LIKE most OF THE MUSIC THAT IS DISCUSSED ON THIS BOARD, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE DISCERNING ENOUGH TASTE.
the mouth opens , the shit pours out. Thats the dumbest thing you've said to date. but i do believe, not the dumbest thing you will ever say.
being picky does not mean having "better" taste, it may mean having "LESS" taste though.
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What I was saying was that if you like MOST music, you really don't have any taste.
It's like a fat person who will basically eat anything that's put on a plate in front of them just because it's there.
I choose not to be one of those people.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
[Q being picky does not mean having "better" taste, it may mean having "LESS" taste though.
Rhett only ever admits to liking alt-country, therefore he is never going to like everything in this indie rock/pop dominated forum. I bet he likes most everything they talk about in an alt-country forum like that of Robbie Fulks.
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I mean lets face it. Most of you are fucking sheep. Whatever NME or pitchfork tells you you're supposed to like, you like. You all basically like the same stuff, because that's what you're told to like.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Most of you are fucking sheep.
So how do you find about bands you might like?
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oH WAIT, i'M SORRY, SONICK. your taste seems to be more formed by reading SPIN than pitchfork or NME, but same idea
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I mean lets face it. Most of you are fucking sheep. Whatever NME or pitchfork tells you you're supposed to like, you like. You all basically like the same stuff, because that's what you're told to like.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I mean lets face it. Most of you are fucking sheep. Whatever NME or pitchfork tells you you're supposed to like, you like. You all basically like the same stuff, because that's what you're told to like.
If that were the case, I'd follow Superchunk. Just ask my friends about that one -- yucky yuck yuck.
This conversation is getting more and more inane.
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mostly i listen to kexp. if something catches my ear, i go to amazon and listen to soundclips. if soundclips aren't avaiable, i'll go to their website and listen to them or read any reviews that have been posted.
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Most of you are fucking sheep.
So how do you find about bands you might like? [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB] mostly i listen to kexp. Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
[qb]
but that places you at the same level of sheepdom as me and I wager most of the rest of us. I listen to woxy and virgin radio and lots of duff free/cheap samplers from game exchange.....
The bands that are played on KEXP are the very same bands that get in NME and pitchfork.
So please take this in a non aggressive, not sarcastic way (think thatguy), what makes you so unique?
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KEXP regularly programs an innovative, eclectic mix of alternative rock, hip hop, electronic, roots & blues, world & reggae, jazz, Americana, rockabilly, ambient and more.
From what I have heard of WOXY, they are a modern rock station. You're not going to hear the Drive By Truckers or Jay FArrar or Solomon Burke, or Common or the Roots, etc, etc, etc.
Virgin I don't listen to, so I can't comment. But I'm guessing they probably don't mix all those genres up into the same show. They might have special "niche" shows.
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB] mostly i listen to kexp. Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
[qb]
but that places you at the same level of sheepdom as me and I wager most of the rest of us. I listen to woxy and virgin radio and lots of duff free/cheap samplers from game exchange.....
The bands that are played on KEXP are the very same bands that get in NME and pitchfork.
So please take this in a non aggressive, not sarcastic way (think thatguy), what makes you so unique? [/b]
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And Pitchfork clearly won't even MENTION anything that is alt-country.
For example, they had an article on the Pernice Brothers. On the current tour, there are two temporary replacement members. One plays regularly for power pop band the Bigger Lovers, the other plays for alt-country singer Peter Bruntnell. Guess which one Pitchfork mentioned in their story, and which one they ignored.
And no, I don't read No Depression magazine.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Most of you are fucking sheep.
You're the one that grew up on a farm....
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
KEXP regularly programs an innovative, eclectic mix of alternative rock, hip hop, electronic, roots & blues, world & reggae, jazz, Americana, rockabilly, ambient and more.
From what I have heard of WOXY, they are a modern rock station. You're not going to hear the Drive By Truckers or Jay FArrar or Solomon Burke, or Common or the Roots, etc, etc, etc.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
WOXY just plays alternative rock, "Drive By Truckers or Jay FArrar or Solomon Burke, or Common or the Roots" have all been played on WOXY I think (actually who are the common?). Although Farrar is pretty rare to hear. The roots on the other hand was their single of the week.
Virgin is bland pop-rock for the most part. The speciality shows are good though.
So I miss out all the other genres. I dont really enjoy them. I guess that is why I strggle to get through a day listening to KEXP. Too much challenging music. But if you like all those genres doesnt that mean that you are less discerning than me? The opposite of your original argument?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
And Pitchfork clearly won't even MENTION anything that is alt-country.
Is Wilco alt-country?
http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/w/wilco/yankee-hotel-foxtrot.shtml (http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/w/wilco/yankee-hotel-foxtrot.shtml)
they gave it a rare 10.0
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Actually, I dislike quite a bit of what KEXP plays. Or at least am indifferent to a lot of it. But I think I would rather be challenged by a radio station than entertained by it.
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
KEXP regularly programs an innovative, eclectic mix of alternative rock, hip hop, electronic, roots & blues, world & reggae, jazz, Americana, rockabilly, ambient and more.
From what I have heard of WOXY, they are a modern rock station. You're not going to hear the Drive By Truckers or Jay FArrar or Solomon Burke, or Common or the Roots, etc, etc, etc.
[/b]
WOXY just plays alternative rock, "Drive By Truckers or Jay FArrar or Solomon Burke, or Common or the Roots" have all been played on WOXY I think (actually who are the common?). Although Farrar is pretty rare to hear. The roots on the other hand was their single of the week.
Virgin is bland pop-rock for the most part. The speciality shows are good though.
So I miss out all the other genres. I dont really enjoy them. I guess that is why I strggle to get through a day listening to KEXP. Too much challenging music. But if you like all those genres doesnt that mean that you are less discerning than me? The opposite of your original argument? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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Originally posted by Mobius:
First of all, i think[...]i'm very curious to know what the crowd is like for a sold out 21+ Justin Timberlake show at 1 am on a Monday.
I'd be interested to see if it was similar to the crowd that hangs at a Mary Kate + Ashley show...over 40 creepy guys.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
First of all, i think[...]I thought every band with shaggy haircuts was indie style rock? shit.
I always look at the shoes first. Trust me, look at the shoes. It's the shoes.
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Wilco was alt-country for their first two albums. Clearly, they have become a Pitchfork indie/alternative band in light of YHF. Totally different sound of a band.
I'm not daying I hate all that is Pitchfork I just try not to let it guide my music taste, since it is so narrow in scope.
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
And Pitchfork clearly won't even MENTION anything that is alt-country.
Is Wilco alt-country?
http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/w/wilco/yankee-hotel-foxtrot.shtml (http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/w/wilco/yankee-hotel-foxtrot.shtml)
they gave it a rare 10.0 [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
What I was saying was that[...]It's like a fat person who will basically eat anything that's put on a plate in front of them just because it's there.
And I am that person, but with a proviso: The Fiber Content.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
oH WAIT, i'M SORRY, SONICK. your taste seems to be more formed by reading SPIN than pitchfork or NME, but same idea
you constantly prove time and time again, that not only are you a picky bitch, who just read review anyway, just different ones that most, or so you think , that you are also close minded and sterotypical.
because i listen to Radiohead, Kenna, and The Music (just for example, cause my taste is WAY wider than that) doesnt mean i have EVER even been on pitchfork.com (i have once, cause someone said that tore up the Hail To the Thief disc) and i havent read spin in at least 10 years, not even when i am bored at work. I dont read reviews written by other people, i dont read music magazine, EXCEPT Q and i only read the reviews there to hear what new bands are called. i dont pay ANY attention to how many stars they have.
Basically, I DO listen to WOXY sometimes, but other than that, i buy/steal (hah) music and listen to my MP3s.
So mr. i think i know everything, GFY cause you probably only think i read Spin and pitchfork, because you used to when you were my age, and you think its just normal....
and as for your fat person analogy, i shit on it, because having a wide vast taste in what you like, doesnt mean you dont care....no one , i repeat, no one with a brain will agree with you there.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Wilco was alt-country for their first two albums. Clearly, they have become a Pitchfork indie/alternative band in light of YHF. Totally different sound of a band.
I'm not daying I hate all that is Pitchfork I just try not to let it guide my music taste, since it is so narrow in scope.
I thought you said the narrower the scope the better?
round and round we go , rhett.
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to be honest, i only really listen to one band ever, i dont really like the rest of music...i guess i have GREAT TASTE...
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http://www.woxy.com/play.shtml (http://www.woxy.com/play.shtml)
there is what WOXY plays on a daily basis.
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X
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radiohead=the music=kenna
i mean they're all basically "modern rock", right?
i like some modern rock bands, but like most restaurants in dc, most of them are pretty bland.
tell me some of your favorite jazz artists. what are some of your favorite rockabilly bands? what alt-country bands do you think are overrated, and which are underrated? Who do you think are the 5 top bluegrass artists of all time?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
to be honest, i only really listen to one band ever, i dont really like the rest of music...i guess i have GREAT TASTE...
If it is the beautiful south,
hello Mankie. :D
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all basically the same to me. some of them better than others, but really limited in scope.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
http://www.woxy.com/play.shtml (http://www.woxy.com/play.shtml)
there is what WOXY plays on a daily basis.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
tell me some of your favorite jazz artists. what are some of your favorite rockabilly bands? what alt-country bands do you think are overrated, and which are underrated? Who do you think are the 5 top bluegrass artists of all time?
What I was saying was that if you like MOST music, you really don't have any taste.
It's like a fat person who will basically eat anything that's put on a plate in front of them just because it's there.
I choose not to be one of those people.
But you like most genres of music. Do you think this verges on contradiction
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
radiohead=the music=kenna
i mean they're all basically "modern rock", right?
i like some modern rock bands, but like most restaurants in dc, most of them are pretty bland.
tell me some of your favorite jazz artists. what are some of your favorite rockabilly bands? what alt-country bands do you think are overrated, and which are underrated? Who do you think are the 5 top bluegrass artists of all time?
ok sucker
i really HATE bluegrass and alt-country...although for some reason Clem Snide can be dealt with, cause of sentinmental purposes...
As far as jazz...Coltrane, obviously, and charlie parker, getz, and i like a Diana Krall CD
how about blues, and hip hop, and electronica, thats more my style than what you listed...and besides all this genre naming is still contradicting what you first said...
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No, I like a variety of bands from different genres. If I like 5% of the music in any given genre, I'm still being discerning.
Though I wouldn't say that I'm equal in my tastes. I might like 20% of the alt-country I hear, and 1% of the hip hop.
Just like if I only like a small percentage of foods in EACH of the food groups, I'm still being discerning.
Except I don't listen to anything that would fall in the "smooth jazz" category. Nor will I eat from the meat food group. Some things are just bad, and should be avoided.
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
What I was saying was that if you like MOST music, you really don't have any taste.
It's like a fat person who will basically eat anything that's put on a plate in front of them just because it's there.
I choose not to be one of those people.
But you like most genres of music. Do you think this verges on contradiction [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Except I don't listen to anything that would fall in the "smooth jazz" category.
The National Smooth Jazz Awards:
NEW ARTIST OF THE YEAR
Norah Jones
http://www.nationalsmoothjazzawards.com/ (http://www.nationalsmoothjazzawards.com/)
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Just like if I only like a small percentage of foods in EACH of the food groups, I'm still being discerning.
Your analogy is intriging though as most people I know only are passionate about one or two genres of music, but most of them will eat at any kind of resaurant. I dont think musical "taste" is the same as food.
So is it Ok to like 20% of indie(ish) rock you hear but only 2% of the hip-hop and 0% of the bluegrass.
In the end I will end up liking less music than you and will therefore have been more discerning?
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I stand corrected. I guess I do like something from EVERY genre.
Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Except I don't listen to anything that would fall in the "smooth jazz" category.
The National Smooth Jazz Awards:
NEW ARTIST OF THE YEAR
Norah Jones
http://www.nationalsmoothjazzawards.com/ (http://www.nationalsmoothjazzawards.com/) [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I stand corrected. I guess I do like something from EVERY genre.
SHEEP!!!
SHEEP!!!
I BET YOU EAT MEAT TOO!!!!
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I can't even express how retarded this has gotten. And yet, I love it. I no longer know if we're literally just wanking off for the hell of it, or if this is a sensible though often low brow debate about musical genres, etc.
Hell, who cares, I am laughing my ass off right now.
ohmigod, ggw, you are so funny.
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Its a complete departure from the number crunching i am doing...that is this inane converstation
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(i know this topic has been beaten to death but) Built to Spill is on Warner Brothers. What are they?
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A MEDIOCRE BAND JUST LIKE GBV
HEHEHE
Originally posted by Mobius:
(i know this topic has been beaten to death but) Built to Spill is on Warner Brothers. What are they?
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Originally posted by ggw?:
I BET YOU BEAT MEAT TOO!!!! [/b]
Oh yes he does....and not just his own! :D
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
A MEDIOCRE BAND JUST LIKE GBV
HEHEHE
Be happy Rhett, you are not allowed to make me sad.
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Justin Timberlake is playing at the 930 tonight at 11:30 p.m. I noticed that Kindred The Family Soul who scheduled to perform to tonight will hit the stage at 9 p.m. I'm heading there right this minute.
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Please send Justin + Sadsack my warmest regards.
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Originally posted by RonniStar:
Justin Timberlake is playing at the 930 tonight at 11:30 p.m. I noticed that Kindred The Family Soul who scheduled to perform to tonight will hit the stage at 9 p.m. I'm heading there right this minute.
good luck, JTLake is sollllld out like some shit. however, have fun at the early show!
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Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I stand corrected. I guess I do like something from EVERY genre.
SHEEP!!!
SHEEP!!!
I BET YOU EAT MEAT TOO!!!! [/b]
Shish Kabob
:D
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
A MEDIOCRE BAND JUST LIKE GBV
HEHEHE
ahhh more mind-numbing Rhettoric
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Correction: They are a ROCK band, just like GBV. Not one I'd pay money to see or hear, but certainly well above mediocre (same for GBV). I just thought I needed to bring Jadetree into the conversation somehow, and that was a surefire way.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
A MEDIOCRE BAND JUST LIKE GBV
HEHEHE
Originally posted by Mobius:
(i know this topic has been beaten to death but) Built to Spill is on Warner Brothers. What are they?
[/b]
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So how was the Justin show?
Seth, great idea (the post-show show), just the wrong guy for me. Do it again with others if you can.
How about a Springsteen post-show show on Sept. 13th? You could sell tickets for $100 each, easy.
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Huh, get over it. Wilco's on WOXY right now. Of course, Wilco's indie, not alt.country, right?
Anyhow, song is "Box Full of Letters" from album "A.M." -- I'm assuming this is old? I like it, way more than that Billy Bragg crap (I love the Bragg man, but these two entities did not come together and produce genius).
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I can't find the time, to write mah mind the way I want it to read.
That's a great song. Yes, A.M. is old. It's their first album. It's a shame people judge Wilco on their collaboration with Bragg.
Say, how about I start judging Bragg solely on his collaboration with Wilco?
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it should also be noted that bragg and co were merely adding music to woody gutherie songs... without woody gutherie there might not have ever been a billy bragg.
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but without Billy Bragg I would never have heard of woody.
And as for Thirsty, Billy Bragg was a well established artist who had just done one of his best works before he met wilco. Wilco were relatively unkonown. Ahh the good old days.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
That's a great song. Yes, A.M. is old. It's their first album. It's a shame people judge Wilco on their collaboration with Bragg.
Say, how about I start judging Bragg solely on his collaboration with Wilco?
Just to clarify, I didn't judge Wilco on the Guthrie/Bragg stuff on *purpose* -- I didn't know Wilco five years ago, because (as Rhett will likely point out) I'm just a sheep-like poseur that finds out about music once they've hit a certain NME/Pitchfork critical mass.
I'm just as disappointed to see Bragg put out less than stellar material.
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great wilco review for the non sheep (http://www.themelesswonder.com/wilco.htm)
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
great wilco review for the non sheep (http://www.themelesswonder.com/wilco.htm)
That's awesome.
Of course, reading a review written by SOMEONE ELSE, no less, shows we're both just sheep at heart.
I like this lead in: "Instead I could??ve bought two large pizzas, 11 crunchy tacos, 15 Pepsi-colas, and a side-order of Love, which is now sold at all Wal-marts."
But before anyone else picks a bone with me, I might like early Wilco. Let me see if I can find any review online.
:D
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Actually, I would venture that Wilco was as popular as Billy Bragg in the US when the first Mermaid Avenue album came out. They already had two relatively successful albums out.
Wilco headlined at the old 9:30 club on their first tour (I was there, great show), and were headlining venues the size of the new 9:30 club on their second tour. (I was not in the area, so can't say for sure if they headlined at the 9:30 that tour.)
Of course, if your sphere of music revolves around Britpop/modern rock, they probably made very little impact on your musical map. But then again, current bands like OAR, Robert Randolph, and Guster, who all sell out the 9:30 Club, are probably relatively unknown to the typical Billy Bragg fan.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
OAR, Robert Randolph, and Guster, who all sell out the 9:30 Club, are probably relatively unknown to the typical Billy Bragg fan.
You hit the nail on the head there. Am I missing out?
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Personally, my order of favorites for Wilco are:
1. Being There
2. Summerteeth
3. AM
4. YHF
5. Mermaid Ave 2
6. Mermaid Ave 1
AM was straight up alt-country
Being There added a Stones-y+70's radio feel
Summerteeth was pretty pop
YHF had a few cool songs, but left me a bit cold
The Mermaid Avenue albums were hit and miss. I thought the Wilco songs were better than the Bragg songs, so I don't see how one can blame Bragg's troubles on having to work with Wilco. Plus, as Kosmo said, they were both restricted to only writing the music to Guthrie lyrics.
I though Woddy Guthrie was sort of a household name. I mean he did write "This Land is Your Land", which was required singing in American elementary schools
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I don't like OAR or Guster at all.
Robert Randolph seems to be talented, but not my cup of tea.
I guess the Dandy Warhols are pretty big in England/Europe? I hadn't heard of them until I heard the were playing Bumbershoot a couple of months ago. So we all have holes in our musical knowledge...
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
OAR, Robert Randolph, and Guster, who all sell out the 9:30 Club, are probably relatively unknown to the typical Billy Bragg fan.
You hit the nail on the head there. Am I missing out? [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
American elementary schools
believe it or not there are 6billion people alive today who did not go to one of them.
Of those that did, what percent know woody wrote it?
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Who's Afraid of Justin Timberlake?
http://slate.msn.com/id/2087321/ (http://slate.msn.com/id/2087321/)
This ties into both the thread topic and Wilco, as they are mentioned in the article.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I guess the Dandy Warhols are pretty big in England/Europe?
they were big one hit wonders until the release of thier third album. The second album had the hilarious, I never thought you'd be a junkie, (because heroin is so passe).<not if you were the last junkie on earth>.
Bohemian like you on their third album got used in a car advert in the UK and that has catapaulted them into the spotlight.
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Bohemian like you on their third album got used in a car advert in the UK and that has catapaulted them into the spotlight.
I thought it was for Vodafone (Or Orange)?
Godless was used in a Nissan commercial.
Their music has also been in Michelob and Verizon spots.
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120 minutes used to play dandy's "tv theme song" pretty regularly when the first album came out way back when. then, "last junkie on earth" got alot of radio airplay, at least on the stations i listened to in college. maybe the mid-90s were radio's last hurrah.
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Is Guster going to sell out?
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
But then again, current bands like OAR, Robert Randolph, and Guster, who all sell out the 9:30 Club, are probably relatively unknown to the typical Billy Bragg fan.
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Billy Bragg was a well established artist who had just done one of his best works before he met wilco. Wilco were relatively unkonown. Ahh the good old days.
not exactly, in the states...people knew them
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Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
[qb]
I thought it was for Vodafone
[/b]
Yeah, your probably right...
http://www.commercialbreaksandbeats.co.uk/artist.asp?artAlpha=d (http://www.commercialbreaksandbeats.co.uk/artist.asp?artAlpha=d)
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Originally posted by bags:
Is Guster going to sell out?
probably. . .i believe they have in the past.
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Originally posted by bags:
Is Guster going to sell out?
Yeah most likely. They are playing a show at GWU next week for students only with Jason Mraz and THAT is almost sold out. Last time Guster played 9:30 I believe it sold out shortly into their set? But I may be mistaken...
-z
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Did anyone look at the program they were selling at the Sex Pistols show?
They had a faux ad in there for 'Billy Blagg and the Jokes' The catch line was "Why write real songs when you can simply sloganeer?" or something to that effect.
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Interesting -- though the GWU show may well be Mraz. He had a full crowd at 9:30 for the Liz Phair co-headline show.
Thanks for the info...didn't realize I was *so* far behind on the Guster ball.
Originally posted by SamZeb:
Originally posted by bags:
Is Guster going to sell out?
Yeah most likely. They are playing a show at GWU next week for students only with Jason Mraz and THAT is almost sold out. Last time Guster played 9:30 I believe it sold out shortly into their set? But I may be mistaken...
-z [/b]
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Originally posted by ggw?:
Did anyone look at the program they were selling at the Sex Pistols show?
they had a program, how very punk. I didnt see it, how much was it?
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Originally posted by bags:
Interesting -- though the GWU show may well be Mraz. He had a full crowd at 9:30 for the Liz Phair co-headline show.
Thanks for the info...didn't realize I was *so* far behind on the Guster ball.
Yeah Mraz is good too, but Guster has been selling out shows since Mraz was playing Java Joe's for tiny audiences back in San Diego.
Regardless, two pretty good acts worth checking out at some point...
cheers
-z
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Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
they had a program, how very punk. I didnt see it, how much was it?
$10.00
Shirts were between $30 and $40.
"and you thought that we were faking that we were all just money making"
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I have to say, it was kinda funny seeing Pistols concert goers clutching programs.
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Did they have an intermission as well? Plush opera seating? Those funny opera glasses? Do tell.
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Actually, it was the grungiest (no pun intended) show I've seen at 9:30 in years. The floor was drenched in beer and sweat -- just one song into the set! Almost seemed like a set-up, if you know what I mean.
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" ya think it's funny, turning rebellion into money?"
Me and the missus got a T-shirt each. $75.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Did they have an intermission as well?
Yes, but they were all out of strawberries and cream by the time I got to the head of the queue.
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Surely, the peasants don't deserve such delights.
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As for Lydon, he was his usual impish self, staring psychotically into the audience and occasionally pausing to blow his nose without benefit of a handkerchief. Still, there was something inherently contrived about listening to a 47-year-old lead a crowd that could shell out 50 smackers each to see a rock show in a rousing chorus of "I wanna be an anarchist . . . Destroy!"
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Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't there something inherently contrived about city folk listening to songs about prairies?
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not to play devils advocate but isnt all music that we listen to contrived?
con·trived ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-trvd)
adj.
Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored: a novel with a contrived ending.
con·trived·ly (-trvd-l, -trvdl) adv.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
[Buy it]
con·trive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-trv)
v. con·trived, con·triv·ing, con·trives
v. tr.
To plan with cleverness or ingenuity; devise: contrive ways to amuse the children.
To invent or fabricate, especially by improvisation: contrived a swing from hanging vines.
To plan with evil intent; scheme: contrived a plot to seize power.
To bring about, as by scheming; manage: somehow contrived to get past the guards unnoticed.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Surely, the peasants don't deserve such delights.
True, but it was anarchy I tell you.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
As for Lydon, he was his usual impish self, staring psychotically into the audience and occasionally pausing to blow his nose without benefit of a handkerchief. Still, there was something inherently contrived about listening to a 47-year-old lead a crowd that could shell out 50 smackers each to see a rock show in a rousing chorus of "I wanna be an anarchist . . . Destroy!"
"We're the real deal," boasted singer John Lydon (aka Johnny Rotten), and to their credit the Pistols wasted no time in establishing their bona fides, mustering up all the musical filth and fury of yore.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45120-2003Aug25.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45120-2003Aug25.html)
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what song about prairies are you referring to? "this land is your land"?
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't there something inherently contrived about city folk listening to songs about prairies?
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alright, i'll admit it. "contrived" was my wife's word. the reviewer used "surreal".
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
not to play devils advocate but isnt all music that we listen to contrived?
con·trived ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-trvd)
adj.
Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored: a novel with a contrived ending.
con·trived·ly (-trvd-l, -trvdl) adv.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
[Buy it]
con·trive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-trv)
v. con·trived, con·triv·ing, con·trives
v. tr.
To plan with cleverness or ingenuity; devise: contrive ways to amuse the children.
To invent or fabricate, especially by improvisation: contrived a swing from hanging vines.
To plan with evil intent; scheme: contrived a plot to seize power.
To bring about, as by scheming; manage: somehow contrived to get past the guards unnoticed.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
alright, i'll admit it. "contrived" was my wife's word. the reviewer used "surreal".
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Wasn't it your wife who was telling me how she liked to use dictionary.com when her colleagues used fancy words in the wrong context....
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I think this is exactly the meaning she had in mind...
Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored: a novel with a contrived ending.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I think this is exactly the meaning she had in mind...
Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored: a novel with a contrived ending.
As for Lydon, he was his usual impish self, staring psychotically into the audience and occasionally pausing to blow his nose without benefit of a handkerchief. Still, there was something inherently Obviously planned or calculated about listening to a 47-year-old lead a crowd that could shell out 50 smackers each to see a rock show in a rousing chorus of "I wanna be an anarchist . . . Destroy!"
So does she suspect that John called us all before the show to plan this in advance?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I think this is exactly the meaning she had in mind...
Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored: a novel with a contrived ending.
That describes rather well all music that has been recorded in a studio.
I think the situation contained irony and that Jonny is a hypocrite.
But then he is out there selling a subversive message. At least he isnt doing AMEX commercials with Roger Dalterey.
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What is so wrong with doing and American Express commercial?
I would think that a credit card would be the best friend of someone who pays $75 for two t-shirts?
And what is so inherently "right" about subversion or a subversive message?
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I think this is exactly the meaning she had in mind...
Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored: a novel with a contrived ending.
That describes rather well all music that has been recorded in a studio.
I think the situation contained irony and that Jonny is a hypocrite.
But then he is out there selling a subversive message. At least he isnt doing AMEX commercials with Roger Dalterey. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
What is so wrong with doing and American Express commercial?
I would think that a credit card would be the best friend of someone who pays $75 for two t-shirts?
And what is so inherently "right" about subversion or a subversive message?
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Were you not calling everyone who posted on this board a sheep yesterday? You probably wouldnt like subversion if you were a sheep.
I love you inconsistancy.
the musicians who actually appear in adverts for products tend to be those regarded as more interested in making money than music.
He was in a wax jacket with a shotgun and a fishing rod looking like lord of the fucking manor, if that helps it get on your nerves too.
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Does Johnny Lydon give away his riches to the poor?
I'll bet he lives it up pretty fancy just like Daltry. Whereas Daltry's fans are middle ages yuppies or blue collar folks who admire wealth, Lydon's fans are middle aged yuppies who somehow think they are subversive because they still get drunk on a Sunday night.
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I think most all musicians are interested in making BOTH money AND music.
Originally posted by Anton Newcombe:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[qb]
the musicians who actually appear in adverts for products tend to be those regarded as more interested in making money than music.
[/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Lydon's fans are middle aged yuppies who somehow think they are subversive because they still get drunk on a Sunday night.
no that is just some of the fans, there are also a lot of kids who still dress like punks from 1977 and emulate everything they have heard about how punks should act
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Does Johnny Lydon give away his riches to the poor?
I doubt it, do you?
when have you seen Jonny rotten doing commercials? I bet the who made much more money than the pistols.
I thought Roger looked like a twat, remember he sang "hope I die before I get old".
As for being subversive, well every little helps, try not having a car and being dependant on oil........
Otherwise the pistols message was anti-apathy. Fuck the hippies that just sat about all day, go and do something. Probably just a reflection of the drugs they took.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I think most all musicians are interested in making BOTH money AND music.
odd you should say that.... when was the last new sex pistols or who album?
Jonny is redeemed by PIL, bt its been a while since one of them.
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Originally posted by ggw?:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I think this is exactly the meaning she had in mind...
Obviously planned or calculated; not spontaneous or natural; labored: a novel with a contrived ending.
As for Lydon, he was his usual impish self, staring psychotically into the audience and occasionally pausing to blow his nose without benefit of a handkerchief. Still, there was something inherently Obviously planned or calculated about listening to a 47-year-old lead a crowd that could shell out 50 smackers each to see a rock show in a rousing chorus of "I wanna be an anarchist . . . Destroy!"
So does she suspect that John called us all before the show to plan this in advance? [/b]
clearly the BEST word here would be "ironic" (so hipsters can be so proud) though I admit that this morning, I may have blearily said it was "phony and contrived"...