930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: evilsatan on May 17, 2003, 01:21:00 pm
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hello all
your comments on the new forum software please
love
evilsatan
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Hi, oh Evil One! :p
Not sure yet, but I think I like the most recent post being displayed at the top so we don't have to scroll down every time. A little soon to tell yet.
Would be nice if we still were able to display email addresses and websites in our bios. (Unless I've missed something.) A member directory would be cool too. Am I asking for too much!?
Thanks for all of your work. It's obvious that you've put a lot into this. It is very much appreciated!
:cool:
Jaguar
:cool:
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i tend to agree with jag here........
i think i prefer when the newest posts are at the top then you don't have to constantly have to scroll down to read the new posts but i guess it's a little to soon for criticism........but i'll ream you next week about the same issue i'm sure...............
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i tend to agree with jag here........
i think i prefer when the newest posts are at the top then you don't have to constantly have to scroll down to read the new posts but i guess it's a little to soon for criticism........but i'll ream you next week about the same issue i'm sure...............
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hmmm... is it me or was there a button above the post on the old sw to make do a reply without quotes... now you have to scroll to the top just to post a reply. another reason to have the posts reversed.
the ubb code buttons are nice addition!
and i'm still a moderator :cool:
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any chance of putting back the search feature? my brain is like a sieve and once in awhile i like looking up an old comment.
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i'm loving the ubb code. that's a great feature. i would like to have the most recent posts at the top though and not at the bottom. and perhaps a post from the administrator quickly outlining the new features because i'm sure i'll miss more than a few of them. thankie!
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I like the new forum.
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to be honest, i hate new things. haha. i miss the old forum because it just seemed a lot easier to use. then again it's too soon to tell and i'm sure that i'll adjust. but i do like the most recent reply on top as well. i like to see how far off topic everyone has gotten :) why did you guys change it anyway? but still, good job.
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no, keep oldest posts at top...it makes 100x more sense the way it is now. Think about it, if you have a new post you haven't read that is 5 pages long...doesn't it make more sense to scroll down reading, then hit the next page scroll down, etc...rather than the old way where you had to first go to the last page, then scroll up...it just doesn't make sense that way, sorry.
:D
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i changed the forum software because the old software would not run on the new server
i can't make up my mind about oldest to newest posts order....we had this discussion last time around and i don't really remember how we resolved it....probably whatever seth like best... ;)
i suppose i could make a post about all the new features...but i don't have a clue as to what they are ;)
and thanx for the cool evil satan avatar thingy... i'm liking that
i will change the colors back
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just want to see what my member number is???
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there is a link at the top left of the page that allows you to jump to new posts. no need to scroll.
if a thread has more than one page, there are links to each page on the thread selection page so you can jump right to the last page.
newest last is much easier to read.
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Originally posted by evilsatan:
probably whatever seth like best
why can't everyone be like that
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Originally posted by G.Love:
just want to see what my member number is???
guilty as charged :D
and there are some mysterious icons at the bottom of each page without labels. i'm guessin' there moderator functions of some sort
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also there is no longer a place for location or website in the user profile
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Where is the link to get to the newest post? I can't find it. I don't like scrolling down, they won't give me a scrolling mouse at work.
Change is hard...maybe I'll get over it.
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Originally posted by kosmo:
also there is no longer a place for location or website in the user profile
yeah that feature went away when i trashed the signature option....signatures just seem like to much verbiage...if you guyz would like i can see if i can put it back in just the profile part.
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the web address thing was pretty useful.
Only a handful of people used it but they mostly had pretty fun websites. I say bring it back.
I am starting to enjoy the new board....
So far only two people seem to like posts as earlier first, but one of them is Thatguy. Your not scared of him, are you?
And if you could see yout way to making the text that blue colour I would feel much more at home.
Thanks for the board.
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i think the new set-up is excellent, my main complaint had always been the starting post at the bottom, it seems to me that this is a definite upgrade, thx
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Here's a suggestion that will be it less cluttered in here... Put at the top of the forum a couple of locked topics which will then remain at the top. i.e 9:30 Club FAQs for Newbies, Posting Guidelines, Read this first before posting as examples topics.
Personally I would like to keep posting what should be in the FAQ forum out of the regular forum. i.e. questions about cameras, set time, will such and such show sellout. I would also like to start moving such topics into the FAQ forumas long as the regulars haven't started responding to them.
See this forum for an example. This could be a big help for eddie so he isn't always responding to how many people does the club hold, how can i get such and such local band to play there, etc.
Infopop Forum example (http://community.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=frm&s=729094322&f=3700965652)
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and bombay doors will certainly appreciate the post preview button ;)
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The dark purple text on black background makes it very hard to read the date and time of the post.
Besides that, no complaints.
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What's the algorithm for the weighted score of the user rating?
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Hmmmm. . . did like the new posts on top, though.
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Who rated me?
I have been rated 3 times and have an aggregate score of 1.00.
feel the love, I dont.
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Originally posted by markie:
Who rated me?
I have been rated 3 times and have an aggregate score of 1.00.
feel the love, I dont.
I've got a 2.97 -- indicating that I am approximately 3 times cooler than you. That sounds about right.
There is some funky weighting equation. Although, in your case, it would appear that you got three ratings of 1, which would obviate the need for weighting.
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I got a rating of 2 with 1 vote, you can turn rating off, I did.
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jadetree, how can you turn off the rating option?
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I want to know how unloved I am.
Lily look in your profile.
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Originally posted by lily1:
jadetree, how can you turn off the rating option?
in your profile
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thankie markie and jadetree. apparently no one feels the love for me either. boo hoo hoo.
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Dark purple on a black background makes the times really hard to read.
I prefer the phpBB software over UltimateBB. It's free software, looks nicer (IMHO), and it has more features. Just my two cents.
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Originally posted by kosmo:
and there are some mysterious icons at the bottom of each page without labels. i'm guessin' there moderator functions of some sort [/QB]
those icons are labeled, but you can't read the labels with the color scheme in place. mouse over them, or highlight the area, and you can see what they do. they are in fact moderator functions (delete post, move post, close thread, highlight thread).
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Oh, and you now have to be registered and logged in just to read the forums. You shouldn't have to. That's a UBB option. Someone should turn it off so that lurkers and newbies can read the forums without registering.
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I also vote for newest posts at the top, and for changing the colors back to the old more legible ones. And, yes, how do newbies and lurkers participate now?
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Originally posted by Darth Ed:
Oh, and you now have to be registered and logged in just to read the forums. You shouldn't have to. That's a UBB option. Someone should turn it off so that lurkers and newbies can read the forums without registering.
So we know what you've been up to Darth Ed, prior to today. Lurker! <img src="http://smilies.crowd9.com/contrib/dvv/uriel.gif" alt=" - " />
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Yes, I'm a former lurker... Guilty as charged.
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Hey Evilsatan...
Who's Member #1?
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Originally posted by walkman:
Hey Evilsatan...
Who's Member #1?
And here I thought it was Seth. He's all the way down the list as #14!
Mine got bumped all the way back when my internet service provider changed hands and I had to reregister when I tried to change something in my profile. That's why I now have those dots above my a.
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Dear Evil Satan ;)
Jaguar
:cool:
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Originally posted by walkman:
Hey Evilsatan...
Who's Member #1?
walkie you're back :) well not that you went anywhere... haha
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and i fully second Jag's comments. even though it seems to make more sense, we are all lazy and i think that the most recent reply on top is the best. i hate to scroll, and i am lazy. also. maybe it is because i have a headache but i'm finding it straining to read off of the new format. i'm a bit fastidious today, so i apologize, but still, i miss the larger font. im young but my eyes are dyin' here!
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Congrats on finally upgrading the software :) I would recommend you stick with keeping first posts first -- it'll take some getting used to but it is like every other bulletin board in existence.
I also recommend you enable the "jump to new posts" feature, which will allow people to, well, jump to new posts. That should alleviate some of the concerns about moving away from the last-post-first format.
Also it would be cool to enable some of the profile features so people can reveal a little about themselves if they so choose....
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
Congrats on finally upgrading the software :) I would recommend you stick with keeping first posts first -- it'll take some getting used to but it is like every other bulletin board in existence.
I also recommend you enable the "jump to new posts" feature, which will allow people to, well, jump to new posts. That should alleviate some of the concerns about moving away from the last-post-first format.
Also it would be cool to enable some of the profile features so people can reveal a little about themselves if they so choose....
I agree! :) I always did not like how I had to scroll all the way down when I'd be checking out a topic if I didn't see it for a day and then 40 some posts stacked up on top of it. It'll make most of the threads stay on topic since you can always see what the original poster was discussing.
Perhaps is there a way to set that up in the user preferences to keep the default with first message on top and then the user can switch it to see the late post first instead?
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Originally posted by markie:
Who rated me?
I have been rated 3 times and have an aggregate score of 1.00.
feel the love, I dont.
I didn't know I could have given you a zero :D
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Originally posted by MindCage:
I always did not like how I had to scroll all the way down when I'd be checking out a topic if I didn't see it for a day and then 40 some posts stacked up on top of it. It'll make most of the threads stay on topic since you can always see what the original poster was discussing.
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
now surely if you needed a reason to put it back to the way it was this is it.............
keeping on topic..........................the horror......
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listen to Mindcage, the man is smart!
;)
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I say that you open the polls function and we take a vote on it.
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member number one is actually me with a name i don't use in public ;)
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Originally posted by evilsatan:
member number one is actually me with a name i don't use in public ;)
Oh let me guess?
Dont leave us hanging?
Chadboy?
;)
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so
is someone gonna sumerize all this for me?
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Originally posted by evilsatan:
so
is someone gonna sumerize all this for me?
everybody has an opinion
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Originally posted by evilsatan:
so
is someone gonna sumerize all this for me?
What are you trying to say.... Personally I will never forget the look on your face when I asked you if you were evilsatan......
sum·ma·rize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sm-rz)
intr. & tr.v. sum·ma·rized, sum·ma·riz·ing, sum·ma·riz·es
To make a summary or make a summary of.
summerize
v : prepare for summer; "summerize your car"; "summerize a house" [ant: winterize]
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hmmm....wonder what member number i am/was.....
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so to summarize
Please can you make the last post first..... its very tiresome if you are posting regularly to scroll through everything, every time, just to read one comment.
It detracts from the quickfire nature of the board.
Sure it maybe better for people who dont look at the board ver often, but do you really want to reward people for not looking at the board very often?
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overall, much better set-up.....we just gotta get used to it......
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Originally posted by markie:
so to summarize
Please can you make the last post first..... its very tiresome if you are posting regularly to scroll through everything, every time, just to read one comment.
It detracts from the quickfire nature of the board.
Sure it maybe better for people who dont look at the board ver often, but do you really want to reward people for not looking at the board very often?
Have you tried using the jump to next post feature? It occasionally gets you to the newest post at the bottom of the list. Sometimes it takes you to your last post.
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and change the color scheme or text tags on the icons so we can read them.
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jump to last post is doubly annoying as I have to wait for the page to reload and then it doesnt actually take me to my or the last post.....
that means I have to scroll through all the posts just to read Jadetree calling me German at the very end. Its almost not worth it.
I much preffered it the other way around. It was good for getting a converation going. Now it is easy to miss new posts, especially with the frontpage summary not working.
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Originally posted by markie:
jump to last post is doubly annoying as I have to wait for the page to reload and then it doesnt actually take me to my or the last post.....
that means I have to scroll through all the posts just to read Jadetree calling me German at the very end. Its almost not worth it.
I much preffered it the other way around. It was good for getting a converation going. Now it is easy to miss new posts, especially with the frontpage summary not working.
well i'm glad it's not just me that gets wonky results from the "jump to next post feature". all this makes me really nostaglic for caucus the original forum sw used here. that open showed you how many new posts were in a thread and took you to the proper place in the thread.
maybe there is an personal perferences option that could be used. so those who like newest to oldest can have it their way and visa versa.
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I vote for keeping the "first post is first" style. I always, always hated the "first post is last" style of the old boards. It was so freaking annoying reading threads that way, especially multi-page threads... Ugh. Every other board in existence is "first post is first."
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Why is it all of the people who like first post first are unregistered or new members?
How can you post if you are unregistered would be an equally pertinnent question?
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Originally posted by markie:
Why is it all of the people who like first post first are unregistered or new members?
Imposters!
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I am registered. I don't know why the previous post says that I'm not. I've been reading these boards reguarly for several years, and I stand by my statement.
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Well Darth Ed,
I dont remember you ever posting before.
If you posted regularly in a conversational way could you not see how it would be annoying?
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Originally posted by Darth Ed:
I vote for keeping the "first post is first" style. I always, always hated the "first post is last" style of the old boards. It was so freaking annoying reading threads that way, especially multi-page threads... Ugh. Every other board in existence is "first post is first."
well, that's just a shame. the old system worked very well with the very quick (and very bored) habitual posters on this board...it makes more sense if you're in the middle of a good fight or off-topic discussion..... to anyone else it may seem annoying, but i found it very useful here. so there.
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Thanks Paige, that is exactly what I thought.
I wonder who these "unregistered posters" are, trying to come between us all the time.
I bet he likes Stars Wars?
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couldn't have said it better myself!!! ;)
so basically we need two forums, one for us bored regulars and one for those who come seeking info and to swap recipies... :roll:
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Originally posted by markie:
Thanks Paige, that is exactly what I thought.
I wonder who these "unregistered posters" are, trying to come between us all the time.
I bet he likes Stars Wars?
no one can come between us, markie... except maybe samantha.
i bet he DOES like star wars. what a weirdo. ;)
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Oh Paige you are naughty.....and I had forgotten all about Samantha. How fickle I am too all but you.
I wonder if he will post again and tell us all what a great movie The Phantom Menace was, so we can all laugh at his expense.
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summary of my thoughts:
i'm all for a color scheme change if that's what most people want.
first posts first is the way it should stay. i've always hated having to scroll backwards through a discussion. not everyone sits here all day checking as each new post is made. for those that don't, it's a pain in the ass to read backwards, especially on multi-page threads. most days when i check in, there are at least three or four long threads that have started since my last check, and reading them in order is much easier on my brain.
as for scrolling, i do less now than i did before thanks to links to the multiple pages, and the jump to new posts feature. besides, i think that whining about scrolling is really pretty lame. is it really that hard? a click of the mouse or a spin of the little wheel is hardly an enormous effort, you lazy bastards.
deleting posts is much easier now, since you have to be logged in the whole time and don't have to re-enter your info. thanks for that. i'm still not gonna manually delete all the crap in the forum, though. especially now that you can set your preferences to only see posts as recent as you want.
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in addition to all of the above, i'll add this:
maybe making it a little more work to get to the new stuff will make y'all think a little more before you post. you know, improve the signal to noise ratio around these parts. just a thought.
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If you make no other changes, please change the color on the text for the times and dates of the posts. Dark purple on black is simply unreadable.
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Originally posted by thatguy:
in addition to all of the above, i'll add this:
maybe making it a little more work to get to the new stuff will make y'all think a little more before you post. you know, improve the signal to noise ratio around these parts. just a thought.
The same people who provide the noise on this board are the same people who give a lot of the information that is useful. The board is useless when nobody is posting, the noise keeps people coming back, otherwise it is someone posting every couple of days and is useless.
What was the original point of the board, genuine question, what was the idea of having a board on the site?
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Originally posted by ggw:
If you make no other changes, please change the color on the text for the times and dates of the posts. Dark purple on black is simply unreadable.
word. and it sure doesn't help when you're colour-blind.
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Originally posted by thatguy:
summary of my thoughts:
not everyone sits here all day checking as each new post is made.
Well this is what I was getting at before. People who only read the board occasionally like first post first. People who use the board a lot like first post last. You are being equally lazy as me in your preference. If not more so, as I look at posts 100 times a day, so 100 scrollings, vs you, 1 time a day, 1 scrolling.
Last post first does encourage more rapid fire discussion, it just saves time and is more direct. If that is not what you want on the board, if you dont like the "noise" well that is up to you.
Perhaps you should use another forum? :p
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Originally posted by markie:
Well this is what I was getting at before. People who only read the board occasionally like first post first. People who use the board a lot like first post last.
I think the occasional users outnumber the regulars by maybe 100:1 (assuming there are 2000 members and 20 regular posters). So should the board be designed for the benefit of the greatest number of people or for the benefit of the frequent users?
I have no opinion on first-post-first. I think it will just take some getting accustomed to.
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Originally posted by markie:
Oh Paige you are naughty.....and I had forgotten all about Samantha. How fickle I am too all but you.
I wonder if he will post again and tell us all what a great movie The Phantom Menace was, so we can all laugh at his expense.
;) you bet i am.
if he talks about any star wars-related things, we may have to banish him.. only kidding. it's nice to have someone to poke fun at on the board.
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Originally posted by ggw:
Originally posted by markie:
[qb] outnumber the regulars by maybe 100:1 (assuming there are 2000 members and 20 regular posters).
[/b]
2000 members since 1999,
I wonder how many of those were alter egos? Of the rest how many of those actually read the board still. And still, of those it is possible that some read it often during the day without posting.
I would say your numbers and therefore premise is flawed.
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Originally posted by paige:
only kidding. it's nice to have someone to poke fun at on the board.
ding ding ding,
perhaps we can pick on thatguy next?
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Originally posted by markie:
You are being equally lazy as me in your preference.
i'm being lazy by preferring to read english in the way that english is supposed to be written (left to right, top to bottom)? how about we start making the first posts read right to left?
.keew txen bulc eht gniyalp si yalpdloc raeh i
Perhaps you should use another forum? :p
i do, and i have for many, many years. and you know what? all of them are first post first. as for my presence here, i'm afraid you'll be stuck with me as long as my job is what it is. if that changes, odds are i'll disappear.
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Originally posted by thatguy:
. if that changes, odds are i'll disappear.
You wouldnt stop by just for old time sake? Surely you love the jovial banter?
I like your backward writing, that is the best thing you have ever typed here.
But do you know the answer to Jadetrees question, why did the club set up a board in the first place.?
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Originally posted by markie:
You wouldnt stop by just for old time sake? Surely you love the jovial banter?
not likely. if i didn't work at the club, i don't think i'd be around at all.
But do you know the answer to Jadetrees question, why did the club set up a board in the first place.?
nope. i wasn't a part of that decision making process.
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Originally posted by markie:
Originally posted by paige:
only kidding. it's nice to have someone to poke fun at on the board.
ding ding ding,
perhaps we can pick on thatguy next? [/b]
no.. someone completely unsuspecting and very easily made fun of.......
you pick, my love
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Absolutely no question about it....NEWEST AT THE TOP!!!!
Everything else I can tak or leave, though I did prefer the blue type....
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[[/QUOTE]no.. someone completely unsuspecting and very easily made fun of.......
[/QB][/QUOTE]
yeah...........but hold on..........isn't that paige?
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Why is it important for people to be able to rate my member? I'm at four out of five stars so thank you ladies....thank you all!
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Originally posted by mankie:
Why is it important for people to be able to rate my member? I'm at four out of five stars so thank you ladies....thank you all!
hey mankie.........i'd give you one.............hur,hur,hur
not really though i don't have 5 seconds to spare.........
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Originally posted by mankie:
Why is it important for people to be able to rate my member? I'm at four out of five stars so thank you ladies....thank you all!
hate to burst yer bubble there mank, but you are a 1 out of 5 stars right now...
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Originally posted by poorlulu:
not really though i don't have 5 seconds to spare.........
you would rather post stupid shit on this board than have sex with Mankie?
I guess you are not as stupid as I thought afterall, Poorlulu.
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Originally posted by markie:
you would rather post stupid shit on this board than have sex with Mankie?
I guess you are not as stupid as I thought afterall, Poorlulu.
[/b]
In her defence she doesn't know what real sex is yet. Had anyone had her sexual experience they'd rather post on the Vines bored never mind this one.
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that webcam of yours must be working real well?
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Originally posted by markie:
2000 members since 1999,
I wonder how many of those were alter egos? Of the rest how many of those actually read the board still. And still, of those it is possible that some read it often during the day without posting.
I would say your numbers and therefore premise is flawed.
2731 members since 1999.
Assume 231 of those were alter-egos of Rhett
Assume only 10% of the remainder still read the board
Assume there are 25 daily posters
Occasionals still outnumber regulars 10:1
Perhaps there would be more regulars if the posts ran oldest to newest?
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well the jump to newest post feature doesn't work, it can actually take you backwords in time. as it happened when i did it on this topic, it jumped to page two.
if the board truly took you to the past post you would have seen, then i could care less which way the posts are ordered.
also does anyone know of other people not being able to log on? as mentioned in the dupek thread there is another who can't seem to log on and we haven't seen b/w of late either..
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Originally posted by ggw:
Perhaps there would be more regulars if the posts ran oldest to newest?
Perhaps you can kiss my arse?
you already stated you didnt have a preference, so perhaps you are carrying on to annoy me?
It is impossible to know how many lurkers there were out there.
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Originally posted by kosmo:
as mentioned in the dupek thread there is another who can't seem to log on and we haven't seen b/w of late either.. [/QB]
Yes dupek couldnt log on, he just presumed he had been banned. He tried making a new user, but that did not work either....
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Originally posted by markie:
Perhaps you can kiss my arse?
Oh you big tease, you.
Originally posted by markie:
you already stated you didnt have a preference, so perhaps you are carrying on to annoy me?
It is impossible to know how many lurkers there were out there.
I don't have a preference, I'm just playing Devils Advocate.
The old board was the only board I ever saw that ran last-post-first, so one would assume that there is a reason that every other board is set-up first-post-first.
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Just because eveyone else does something, does that make it right?
I can just imagine you in the ministry of finance...
I think thatguys arguement was the most compelling, English left to right, top to bottom.
but I still prefered it the old way. Most of the people who prefer it the new way hardly ever post anyhow, did anyone say, Got Haggis?
I guess I am beyond caring anymore. I just wanna annoy Jadetree.
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Originally posted by markie:
I can just imagine you in the ministry of finance...
Gov't work doesn't pay well.
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Originally posted by kosmo:
well the jump to newest post feature doesn't work, it can actually take you backwords in time. as it happened when i did it on this topic, it jumped to page two.
from what i can tell, it's based on a cookie that marks when you last logged out, and takes you to the closest in time after that. so, it will only work each time you start a new session. if you stay logged in, it won't work properly.
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Originally posted by poorlulu:
yeah...........but hold on..........isn't that paige?
ouch. that hurts......
yeah right. haha
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Originally posted by thatguy:
from what i can tell, it's based on a cookie that marks when you last logged out, and takes you to the closest in time after that. so, it will only work each time you start a new session. if you stay logged in, it won't work properly. [/QB]
thats the trick... however i rarely logout... but it is a nice feature for those that don't visit often. i wonder how it would work if the posts were reversed. hmmmm might solve all our problems if it did :D
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That "jump to newest posts" feature should be enacted immediately! Also, I recommend formatting the screen so it's a bit wider.
Finally, every time I go to the old forum, which I keep forgetting to un-bookmark, I get a page that says "hack attempt logged." That's kinda scary. :eek:
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NEWEST POSTS AT THE TOP........
it's soooo boring to have to look at all the old posts over and over again...............
especially when they are mankies...........
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
That "jump to newest posts" feature should be enacted immediately! Also, I recommend formatting the screen so it's a bit wider.
Finally, every time I go to the old forum, which I keep forgetting to un-bookmark, I get a page that says "hack attempt logged." That's kinda scary. :eek:
Ahh Doctor Doom, you are a genius. I bet that is the problem I guess that Dupek is having. I thought he would have worked that out......
I will ask him
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Originally posted by kosmo:
also does anyone know of other people not being able to log on?
Hmmm... haven't seen any "newbies" posting here since this new forum transformation.
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not that anyone cares, but I like it either way :D just to put my two cents in.
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Oldest post first. It's the way just about every other forum works, and people get used to it very quickly. Maybe you'd have more 'regular posters' if the board made more intuitive sense.
Honestly, the regulars will get used to it...if you're really here that much, you'll know that in the "Bitchin' Camaro" thread, you're on page three.
It's so obvious it's just an issue of change -- the blue was a pain (not that the purple is much better, but it's only one line per post).
I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but if you're really that concerned with hyper-speed virtual conversations, go into a chat room.
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Originally posted by bags:
Oldest post first. It's the way just about every other forum works,
so are other forums necessarily right?
You appear to be the only newbie for a while, the frontpage not having a teaser really does not help that in my opinion.....
And I have never found a chat room worth reading.
It was much more enjoyable the other way around, on dialup with pictures posters its especially annoying . As soon as a new pic is decoded the page keeps moving up.
This was not an issue with the forum the other way around.
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I'm not a newbie, despite the # of posts listed for me. Though I will not dare argue with anyone with over 6700 posts.
I have a cable connection, so have been completely unaware of the issue you raise.
And no, every other forum isn't necessarily right, but I think it shows that people can work with it, and quite well in fact.
Wonder if any of this discussion is being taken in by the moderators for possible changes??
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I've just got used to it this way so you'd better not even THINK of changing it now!