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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: bearman🐻 on October 06, 2010, 10:40:00 am

Title: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: bearman🐻 on October 06, 2010, 10:40:00 am
Thoughts??

http://pitchfork.com/news/40293-steve-albini-goes-off-on-sonic-youth/

You gotta give it to veteran producer and former Big Black/current Shellac frontman Steve Albini-- dude is indie as fuck. So indie, in fact, that he recently told GQ that he considers Sonic Youth a "bad influence" (!) for signing with major label Geffen in 1990, a choice Abini thinks they "should be embarrassed about." (Sonic Youth broke ties with Geffen around 2008 and their latest LP, The Eternal, came out on indie Matador.)

It seems relevant to note that two of Albini's most notable engineering credits are Nirvana's In Utero and PJ Harvey's Rid of Me-- both of which came out on major labels. Perhaps he never cashed those checks?

Click on for Albini's full analysis-- which actually might be harsher than those pull quotes would let on:


On Sonic Youth's decision to sign with Geffen: "I don't know the exact circumstances of Sonic Youth's decision, so I'm not comfortable saying they did it wrong. But a lot of the things they were involved with as part of the mainstream were distasteful to me. And a lot of the things that happened as a direct result of their association with the mainstream music industry gave credibility to some of the nonsense notions that hover around the star-making machinery. A lot of that stuff was offensive to me and I saw it as a sellout and a corruption of a perfectly valid, well-oiled music scene. Sonic Youth chose to abandon it in order to become a modestly successful mainstream band-- as opposed to being a quite successful independent band that could have used their resources and influence to extend that end of the culture. They chose to join the mainstream culture and become a foot soldier for that culture's encroachment into my neck of the woods by acting as scouts. I thought it was crass and I thought it reflected poorly on them. I still consider them friends and their music has its own integrity, but that kind of behavior-- I can't say that I think it's not embarrassing for them. I think they should be embarrassed about it."

He goes on (really!): "I think what they did was take a lot of people who didn't have aspirations or ambitions and encouraged them to be part of the mainstream music industry. They validated the fleeting notions that these kids had that they might one day be rock stars. And then they participated in inducing a lot of them to make very stupid career moves. That was a period where the music scene got quite ugly-- there were a lot of parasitic people involved like lawyers and managers. There were people who were making a living on the backs of bands, who were doing all the work. Had Sonic Youth not done what they did I don't know what would have happened-- the alternative history game is kind of silly. But I think it cheapened music quite a bit. It made music culture kind of empty and ugly and was generally a kind of bad influence."

As an amazing end note, GQ threw some prime red meat in the famously t-shirt-and-jeans-wearing producer's direction with the question "How would you describe your fashion?" His answer lived up: "I think fashion is repulsive. The whole idea that someone else can make clothing that is supposed to be in style and make other people look good is ridiculous. It sickens me to think that there is an industry that plays to the low self-esteem of the general public. I would like the fashion industry to collapse. I think it plays to the most superficial, most insecure parts of human nature. I hope GQ as a magazine fails. I hope that all of these people who make a living by looking pretty are eventually made destitute or forced to do something of substance. At least pornography has a function."
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Justin Tonation on October 06, 2010, 11:19:49 am
"That was a period where the music scene got quite ugly-- there were a lot of parasitic people involved like lawyers and managers. There were people who were making a living on the backs of bands, who were doing all the work."

I guess centuries can be considered a period.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: nkotb on October 06, 2010, 11:28:54 am
I think being friends with Albini probably comes with the understanding that, at some point, you're going to do something that's not quite DYI enough for him. 

Definitely a different take.  I mean, most people applaud SY for making the jump while not selling out and using their clout to bring other bands with them.  Guess Albini considers that the gateway drug of major label-hood.

Hard to fault his thought process though; I mean, the dude believes this AND lives it.  Although Pitchfork's questioning of him recording major label albums is a bit flawed.  Hasn't he always said he'd record any band, but if it's a major, he'll gouge them because a) it's not the band's money and b) it gives him the ability to then record bands he likes/respects for less or free?
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: thirsty moore on October 06, 2010, 11:39:09 am
I think being friends with Albini probably comes with the understanding that, at some point, you're going to do something that's not quite DYI enough for him.
I'm sure he was a real pain in the ass when the industry moved from 78's to 12's.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: bearman🐻 on October 06, 2010, 11:43:59 am
Actually, the Pitchfork author is being a little harsh on him. Steve charges a one-time fee, and doesn't accept royalties for his work. He could have made a fortune on "In Utero" but instead just got the job done quickly and efficiently, and made a damn fine-sounding record...abrasive, but that was the idea.

As for Sonic Youth, if it wasn't them, then who? The Replacements were no different, same thing with Husker Du. Sonic Youth was on SST, and ALL the SST bands got frustrated with how shifty and shady Greg Ginn and Co. were handling their business affairs. So SY go to Enigma, who goes belly up. They were frustrated and wanted to distribute their music more widely. I cannot fault them for that, and that's where I disagree with Steve. Nowadays, it makes no sense for musicians to go to a label when Merge and Matador still do a great job. Weezer going to Epitaph is funny.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: nkotb on October 06, 2010, 11:45:29 am
Not as funny as people buying new Weezer albums :)

Weezer going to Epitaph is funny.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: K8teebug on October 06, 2010, 11:50:33 am
He makes me laugh.  The fact is no one can record like him.  Plus, Shellac rocks.

Sonic Youth is the Grateful Dead of indie rock.  I like them, but it's a fact.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: azaghal1981 on October 06, 2010, 12:05:00 pm
The main difference is that when Sonic Youth improvise, it doesn't sound like noodly garbage 9.5 times out of 10.


RE:Albini, the SY stuff is a little overboard but the comments about file/music sharing are dead on. The stuff about the fashion industry is gold.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: hutch on October 06, 2010, 12:19:46 pm
I think in retrospect that bands that didn't sign with majors did themselves a disservice  at that unique point in time (1989-1991)...

The one that comes to mind is Fugazi.... Of course if you don't want people to listen to your music then doing what they did is the way to go...
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: nkotb on October 06, 2010, 12:24:09 pm
Agreed...I'd sign on that contract without a moment's hesitation.  But I'll always give Albini props for talking the talk and actually following through.

I think in retrospect that bands that didn't sign with majors did themselves a disservice  at that unique point in time (1989-1991)...

Why should comparing them to GD be considered an insult???

Sonic Youth is the Grateful Dead of indie rock.  I like them, but it's a fact.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: James Ford on October 06, 2010, 12:53:18 pm
Best production work Steve Albini ever did was for Robbie Fulks.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: ggw on October 06, 2010, 12:54:59 pm
I don't get the SY - GD comparison. SY is to indie rock as GD is to ??
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: K8teebug on October 06, 2010, 01:11:56 pm
I just mean they're indie rock guitar noodlers.  Not that they are bad.  I like them.  I just think they are the Grateful Dead of indie rock.  But, yes, they are much better at it.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: ggw on October 06, 2010, 01:26:54 pm
Okay - I get that. It's no secret that Thurston is a closet Deadhead and it definitely shows on some of their music.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: James Ford on October 06, 2010, 01:34:06 pm
I'm no big fan of either, but you really think that Sonic Youth is better and noodly guitar music that the Grateful Dead? Really?

I sent the quote about fashion to my wife (without attributing it to anybody), and her response was priceless:

I think that quote comes from a bitter and weird person.



I just mean they're indie rock guitar noodlers.  Not that they are bad.  I like them.  I just think they are the Grateful Dead of indie rock.  But, yes, they are much better at it.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: thirsty moore on October 06, 2010, 01:50:53 pm
ggw - it's time to let your IT department know you post at work.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Vas Deferens on October 06, 2010, 02:09:21 pm
but he uses his phone?
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: godsshoeshine on October 06, 2010, 02:10:12 pm
steve makes points that were maybe relevant 20 years ago. in 2010 it sounds like a needless shot to me. still like him though
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: walkonby on October 06, 2010, 02:52:06 pm
better guitarist?

jerry or thurston

trey or j.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Relaxer on October 06, 2010, 03:37:13 pm
Albini is a pretty limited producer: drums way up in the mix, vocals buried, bass either overboard or non-existent. Little bands use him as a producer because he is a "name" and big bands such as Bush, Robert Plant and the Manic St Preachers use him as a punk-rock novelty and then never use him again because he can only do one thing and because he's a dick.

And his music wasn't all that great either. Big Black did have influence, but it too was limited and really only had an effect on people like Reznor and Jourgeson who then took it to the masses. And Shellac kinda sucks too. Live at Action Park was cool at first but has no depth, and no one listens to any other Shellac album.

And he's a stupid jerk who never responded to the birthday card I spent a really really long time on.

Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: azaghal1981 on October 06, 2010, 03:53:03 pm
Lee > Thurston and Jerry

J > everyone else


Duh.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Jaguar on October 06, 2010, 04:01:26 pm
Albini is a smart and talented guy who got lost up his own ass.

Quite frankly, I've never liked any of his work but always gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was just not to my taste. Still think that way and also very much agree with Relaxer that it's extremely limited in scope.

His rants are often pretty good but the old fart seems to have turned into and old curmudgeon.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: azaghal1981 on October 06, 2010, 04:19:32 pm
Oh wait Jaguar's here.

Kevin > everyone else.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Jaguar on October 06, 2010, 04:26:23 pm
^  ::)    ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: chaz on October 06, 2010, 05:35:50 pm
Pod - The Breeders

thanks for that one
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Epstein on October 06, 2010, 09:44:31 pm


And his music wasn't all that great either. Big Black did have influence, but it too was limited and really only had an effect on people like Reznor and Jourgeson who then took it to the masses. And Shellac kinda sucks too. Live at Action Park was cool at first but has no depth, and no one listens to any other Shellac album.



really? you sure about that?
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: azaghal1981 on October 07, 2010, 05:02:46 am
He's old and delusional. Don't mind him.

Everyone knows that the best Shellac album is 1000 Hurts.


Excellent Italian Greyhound has some of their best individual tracks but I find that it kind of falls off hard in the second half.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: azaghal1981 on October 07, 2010, 05:48:43 am
Good read here. (http://marathonpacks.tumblr.com/post/1257511683/steve-albini-thurston-moore-and-the-spectrum-of-indie)
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: K8teebug on October 07, 2010, 07:58:36 am
Love Shellac.  I like all their albums, actually, but do agree about Italian Greyhound.  Plus, they are awesome live.

Like Big Black too.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Relaxer on October 07, 2010, 09:09:43 am

Everyone knows that the best Shellac album is 1000 Hurts.


LOL
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: azaghal1981 on October 07, 2010, 10:19:09 am
I think I'll work to some Shellac today.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: bearman🐻 on October 07, 2010, 10:28:40 am
In honor of the elitist essence of Albini, I'd say the best Shellac records are the Uranus and the Rude Gesture 7"s. Followed by Action Park.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: James Ford on October 07, 2010, 10:31:31 am
You doing fries or burger grill today?

I think I'll work to some Shellac today.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: azaghal1981 on October 07, 2010, 07:19:24 pm
I did your wife to "Prayer to God" on my lunch break.


Sidenote: "Prayer to God" is probably the closest Shellac ever came to a pop song.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Brian_Wallace on October 09, 2010, 12:56:43 am
I don't get the SY - GD comparison. SY is to indie rock as GD is to ??


I can settle this right now because I just saw BOTH of them back to back less than two hours ago.  (Grateful Dead.  Phish.  Same thing.)

Ummmmmm..... Sonic Youth.  For the sole reason that I'd much rather bend Kim Gordon over and go woof woof than Bob Weir/Fishsticks.  I'll just pretend she's Liz Phair.

Brian

P.S.  Speaking of which, this Karen Owen situation is a Godsend for La Liz, isn't it?  It's like Journey after the last episode of "The Sopranos."   Lis Phair is SOOOO relevant again due to the Dukie "F*ck List."
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Jaguar on October 09, 2010, 03:20:12 am
Ah, come on Brian. You can do much better than that!  :P
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: azaghal1981 on October 25, 2010, 08:55:21 am
For those of you who have Dime accounts (http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=325881)


SHELLAC
2010-10-04
Lyon (Feyzin), France
Epicerie Moderne

Source: Core Sound High-End Binaurals (DPA 4061) > TASCAM DR-1 (16bits/44.1k)
Lineage: SD card > Mastering/Editing > WAV > Flac (level 8)

o Tracklisting

t01 Paco
t02 Paco
t03 Copper
t04 Compliant
t05 A Minute
t06 Squirrel Song
t07 Gary, Indiana
t08 Ghosts
t09 Canada
t10 My Black Ass
t11 [new song]
t12 Boycott
t13 Prayer To God
t14 Killers
t15 Crow
t16 The End of Radio
t17 Steady As She Goes
t18 Dude, Incredible
t19 Spoke

Total running time: 1h24'02"


This sounds fantastic. Maybe the best sounding live Shellac document to date. Definitely the best I have heard.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: teepo on October 25, 2010, 09:21:39 am
t11 [new song]


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: sweetcell on February 08, 2023, 02:43:12 pm
* * * H O T   T A K E   A L E R T  * * *

Steve Albini Explains Why He Hates Steely Dan (https://www.stereogum.com/2213086/steve-albini-explains-why-he-hates-steely-dan/news/)

"Music made for the sole purpose of letting the wedding band stretch out a little." - lol
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: kosmo vinyl on February 08, 2023, 03:05:36 pm
 ;D

It really is white male fragile ego season with the usual "why isn't this second tier 70s Hard Rock band, still not nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame, when some non-rock group gets the nod" and not everyone worships at the alter of Steely Dan..
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: bearman🐻 on February 08, 2023, 03:17:56 pm
Steve just makes me laugh.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: kosmo vinyl on February 08, 2023, 03:42:59 pm
speaking of "eccentric" producers... it was amusing seeing Rick Rubin trending recently because he told Anderson Cooper

 "I have no technical ability and I know nothing about music," he said. "I know what I like and what I don't like and I'm decisive about what I like and don't like."

which of course was easily refuted if one watches the Rubin & Paul McCartney interview
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: ye-ole-hatch ıll|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl on February 09, 2023, 10:17:21 am
"I have no technical ability and I know nothing about music,"
My understanding is, he can't play the piano, guitar or drums at any level of expertise, so I do think the first part is right
now he's a kick-ass turntablist, so that's some technical ability that he's shrugging off

little hyperbole in the second part, but he's not classicly trained and don't think he can even read sheet music

Although, this could all be made up in my mind as I'm a little obsessed with Mr Rubin as of late
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: ye-ole-hatch ıll|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl on February 09, 2023, 03:35:35 pm
welp, this has made quite the ripple

https://www.nme.com/news/music/artists-wade-into-steve-alibinis-steely-dan-debate-3394639

https://twitter.com/JasonIsbell/status/1622785506101628934?s=20&t=LFAhhqlJ8F0ipaPDPrqQwg
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: bearman🐻 on February 13, 2023, 10:43:33 am
For the record, I don't put much stock in anything St. Vincent says. Apparently she needs a guitar tech to hit which pedals she needs to use for particular songs. I think she didn't do herself many favors when she basically ruined Sleater Kinney. So just because she's into Steely Dan, that doesn't say much.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Space Freely on February 13, 2023, 10:49:18 am
For the record, I don't put much stock in anything St. Vincent says. Apparently she needs a guitar tech to hit which pedals she needs to use for particular songs. I think she didn't do herself many favors when she basically ruined Sleater Kinney. So just because she's into Steely Dan, that doesn't say much.

Interesting. Do you have a link about the guitar tech hitting the pedals?

Some people would say she made Sleater Kinney sound more tolerable.

I'm kind of neutral on Steely Dan, and St. Vincent isn't going to change my mind. I can think of many others bands that are much easier to hate.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Yada on February 13, 2023, 11:15:51 am
wait, how did st. vincent ruin sleater kinney?
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Julian, Forum COGNOSCENTI on February 13, 2023, 11:22:21 am
wait, how did st. vincent ruin sleater kinney?
I *think* she stole away the drummer who was leaving S-K anyway?
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: bearman🐻 on February 13, 2023, 03:23:01 pm
For the record, I don't put much stock in anything St. Vincent says. Apparently she needs a guitar tech to hit which pedals she needs to use for particular songs. I think she didn't do herself many favors when she basically ruined Sleater Kinney. So just because she's into Steely Dan, that doesn't say much.

Interesting. Do you have a link about the guitar tech hitting the pedals?

Some people would say she made Sleater Kinney sound more tolerable.

I'm kind of neutral on Steely Dan, and St. Vincent isn't going to change my mind. I can think of many others bands that are much easier to hate.

No. I heard that one directly from a musician friend who would know for sure.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: bearman🐻 on February 13, 2023, 03:23:49 pm
wait, how did st. vincent ruin sleater kinney?

By pushing Janet Weiss out of the band. Along with some other unsavory drama.
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: Space Freely on February 13, 2023, 03:39:25 pm
For the record, I don't put much stock in anything St. Vincent says. Apparently she needs a guitar tech to hit which pedals she needs to use for particular songs. I think she didn't do herself many favors when she basically ruined Sleater Kinney. So just because she's into Steely Dan, that doesn't say much.

Interesting. Do you have a link about the guitar tech hitting the pedals?

Some people would say she made Sleater Kinney sound more tolerable.

I'm kind of neutral on Steely Dan, and St. Vincent isn't going to change my mind. I can think of many others bands that are much easier to hate.

No. I heard that one directly from a musician friend who would know for sure.

Does she have her guitar tech help her teach her class?

https://www.masterclass.com/classes/st-vincent-teaches-creativity-and-songwriting/chapters/meet-your-instructor-st-vincent-a-k-a-annie-clark
Title: Re: Steve Albini is at it again...
Post by: sweetcell on February 13, 2023, 04:39:20 pm
For the record, I don't put much stock in anything St. Vincent says. Apparently she needs a guitar tech to hit which pedals she needs to use for particular songs.

Interesting. Do you have a link about the guitar tech hitting the pedals?

No. I heard that one directly from a musician friend who would know for sure.

the pedals thing is a non-story, IMO.  there are a good number of guitarists that get their techs, or a computer via MIDI, to do their pedal/sound switching. 

the number of pedal/preset combinations a guitarist has to remember can be overwhelming if they want to sound live like they did on the album.  given all the other stuff an artist on stage has to remember and do, hitting the correct combo of pedals isn't something that is going to impress the crowd - but getting the combos wrong is going to drag the show down.  i'd rather have a solid show by a guitarist who isn't stepping on his/her own stompboxes, than have a guitarist mess up a song because they accidentally put distortion on a clean rhythm part (which in turn makes the drummer jump and miss a beat, pisses off the singer so they're no longer focused on their performance, etc.)