930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: HoyaSaxa03 on December 06, 2012, 11:48:17 pm
-
I need some advice. Here's the setup:
Mac Mini 2012, mostly 320 kbps MP3s ---> 3.5mm headphone jack to RCA ---> Onkyo TX-8555 (http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-8555&class=Receiver&p=i) --> Audioengine P4 speakers (http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-P4#.UMFkjINcaWE)
The Onkyo receiver doesn't have digital inputs, hence my less-than-ideal analog connection.
Do I need a DAC? Does it matter that I'm using lossy source material (i.e., would a DAC not add as much punch to lossy material as it would to lossless)? Would a cheapo DAC help much (like this (http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA202-USB-Audio-Interface/dp/B000J0IIEQ) or this (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=6884&seq=1&format=2)), or do I have to get into the $100+ range to make a difference? This is a ~$200 receiver and ~$250 speakers, so I don't want to go crazy here and add a $150-200 DAC if I don't have to.
As an aside, I have a Music Hall USB-1 hooked up to this rig as the main source and really like the sound.
-
I have a question too! We just bought a Stanton T92 and are experiencing that humming sound in our speakers. Guessing we need a preamp. Does anyone have any suggestions? We are using a very old receiver from 1993, but it's a Pioneer, and my husband will not get rid of it. We do want to get some new speakers, but don't have any ideas there either.
-
I have a question too! We just bought a Stanton T92 and are experiencing that humming sound in our speakers. Guessing we need a preamp. Does anyone have any suggestions? We are using a very old receiver from 1993, but it's a Pioneer, and my husband will not get rid of it. We do want to get some new speakers, but don't have any ideas there either.
did you ground it?
i bought a few pairs of speakers at thrift stores.. you really get great deals
-
How do you ground it? I am a total girl when it comes to this stuff...
-
Niiiiice... an audiophile thread.
I picked up the Sea Change mobile fidelity release last week and it's unreal how good it sounds. Wowser.
-
I have a question too! We just bought a Stanton T92 and are experiencing that humming sound in our speakers. Guessing we need a preamp. Does anyone have any suggestions? We are using a very old receiver from 1993, but it's a Pioneer, and my husband will not get rid of it. We do want to get some new speakers, but don't have any ideas there either.
EDIT:
It looks like the Stanton T-92 has a phono or line input option. Make sure you have this switch set correctly on your turntable. use phono if your receiver has a phono input, otherwise use the line input.
It also looks like your turntable does not have or require a ground wire.
http://www.stantondj.com/pdf/manuals/t92_manual.pdf
-
I have a question too! We just bought a Stanton T92 and are experiencing that humming sound in our speakers. Guessing we need a preamp. Does anyone have any suggestions? We are using a very old receiver from 1993, but it's a Pioneer, and my husband will not get rid of it. We do want to get some new speakers, but don't have any ideas there either.
well, does the turntable have a grounding wire coming out the back?.. if it does then usually one connects/hooks it to a grounding rod (very small) on the back of the amplifier or what have you..
I am no audiophile though... some turntables have the grounding wire and some don't.. the humming could be due to some other factor but that is a definite possibility.
-
Thanks so much! Alot of my friends who have direct drive turntables had to get a preamp to get rid of the humming. It's supposed to have a built in preamp, but some of the reviews of it said it's not the best. I will double check to make sure we have it correctly plugged in. Good to know about the grounding wire.
-
I have a question too! We just bought a Stanton T92 and are experiencing that humming sound in our speakers. Guessing we need a preamp. Does anyone have any suggestions? We are using a very old receiver from 1993, but it's a Pioneer, and my husband will not get rid of it. We do want to get some new speakers, but don't have any ideas there either.
If you didn't have a pre-amp you would barely able to hear the music from the turntable. If your amplifier is from 1993 it most likely has a phono input, which would mean it has built in pre-amp. If you are using that you should be fine.
I have a Audio-Technica AT-LP120 turntable and it is actually pretty awesome. And it is only 200 dollars.
-
Aside from figuring out the origin of the background noise, vinyl sounds pretty terrific on the Stanton. It was 300 and it's way better than the super old one we were using before. Definitely the right investment. Wanted to be able to put our vinyl on the computer if there was a blizzard and we wanted a winter project.
-
my main one is the Numark Pro TT-1 and its great.. I have two portable Numarks, an Aiwa I can't remember (not impressed with ).. another one I can't remember inthe basement that is not being used.. and I've set up about 5 friends with free turntables. Up to a few years ago you could find them on the street for free!
-
Hoya....I think a DAC would definitely help. I don't imagine the one in the MAC mini is very good. You can find many for under $100. I think audioengine even sells one that doubles as a headphone amp that may be in this price range. Check out NuForce they are supposed to be good and pretty cheap I think. You can always order a cheapo dac like the ones in your link from a place with a good return policy and send it back if it doesn't make a difference.
IMO, the best thing you can do to improve SQ is swap out your speakers.
What do I know though. I sold all my nice stuff a few years ago. Won't get back into it until I have a dedicated room.
-
Hoya....I think a DAC would definitely help. I don't imagine the one in the MAC mini is very good. You can find many for under $100. I think audioengine even sells one that doubles as a headphone amp that may be in this price range. Check out NuForce they are supposed to be good and pretty cheap I think. You can always order a cheapo dac like the ones in your link from a place with a good return policy and send it back if it doesn't make a difference.
IMO, the best thing you can do to improve SQ is swap out your speakers.
Thank you sir. The audioengine DAC is $170, which seems silly given the rig I'm talking about.
Just so I understand the whole function of the DAC -- a cheapo DAC probably wouldn't help much if I could run digital/optical out of the Mac and into a digital input on my receiver, right? But because I'm dealing with a noisy analog headphone jack, I'm going to get improved performance just by using the cheap DAC to run digital audio out of my Mac via USB or optical and connecting to my all-analog receiver?
I really like the P4s - not a ton of oomph, but really accurate and clear. With rowhouse living and a basement tenant, it's about all I can ask for.
-
Hoya....I think a DAC would definitely help. I don't imagine the one in the MAC mini is very good. You can find many for under $100. I think audioengine even sells one that doubles as a headphone amp that may be in this price range. Check out NuForce they are supposed to be good and pretty cheap I think. You can always order a cheapo dac like the ones in your link from a place with a good return policy and send it back if it doesn't make a difference.
IMO, the best thing you can do to improve SQ is swap out your speakers.
Thank you sir. The audioengine DAC is $170, which seems silly given the rig I'm talking about.
Just so I understand the whole function of the DAC -- a cheapo DAC probably wouldn't help much if I could run digital/optical out of the Mac and into a digital input on my receiver, right? But because I'm dealing with a noisy analog headphone jack, I'm going to get improved performance just by using the cheap DAC to run digital audio out of my Mac via USB or optical and connecting to my all-analog receiver?
I really like the P4s - not a ton of oomph, but really accurate and clear. With rowhouse living and a basement tenant, it's about all I can ask for.
Well, if the external DAC is better than the one in the MAC, in theory you should see an improvement. Also the analog out of the MAC is probably pretty crappy so you'll be bypassing that as well. If you could go digital out from the mac to digital in on the receiver, you be bypassing the DAC on the mac and using the DAC on the reciever., but does the mac even have a digital out? You say the reciever is all analog so based on that it does not have digital inputs. Whether or not that would sound better than getting your own DAC depends on the quality of the one in the receiver. Though considering the source material, the receiver and speakers you have, who knows if you would notice. I think if you got a decent dac the biggest gain in SQ you would get would be bypassing the cheapo analog out on the mac.
-
Hoya....I think a DAC would definitely help. I don't imagine the one in the MAC mini is very good. You can find many for under $100. I think audioengine even sells one that doubles as a headphone amp that may be in this price range. Check out NuForce they are supposed to be good and pretty cheap I think. You can always order a cheapo dac like the ones in your link from a place with a good return policy and send it back if it doesn't make a difference.
IMO, the best thing you can do to improve SQ is swap out your speakers.
Thank you sir. The audioengine DAC is $170, which seems silly given the rig I'm talking about.
Just so I understand the whole function of the DAC -- a cheapo DAC probably wouldn't help much if I could run digital/optical out of the Mac and into a digital input on my receiver, right? But because I'm dealing with a noisy analog headphone jack, I'm going to get improved performance just by using the cheap DAC to run digital audio out of my Mac via USB or optical and connecting to my all-analog receiver?
I really like the P4s - not a ton of oomph, but really accurate and clear. With rowhouse living and a basement tenant, it's about all I can ask for.
Well, if the external DAC is better than the one in the MAC, in theory you should see an improvement. Also the analog out of the MAC is probably pretty crappy so you'll be bypassing that as well. If you could go digital out from the mac to digital in on the receiver, you be bypassing the DAC on the mac and using the DAC on the reciever., but does the mac even have a digital out? You say the reciever is all analog so based on that it does not have digital inputs. Whether or not that would sound better than getting your own DAC depends on the quality of the one in the receiver. Though considering the source material, the receiver and speakers you have, who knows if you would notice. I think if you got a decent dac the biggest gain in SQ you would get would be bypassing the cheapo analog out on the mac.
the mac has a mini-TOSLINK out of the same jack as the analog 3.5mm line, I had been running a mini-TOSLINK-to-TOSLINK connect from the mac to a different receiver with an optical input. the current receiver does not have any digital inputs (optical or coax), only analog RCA inputs.
from everything i've read about 3.5mm analog out jacks on macs (and PCs for that matter), I think I'll get a nice performance boost from even a cheap USB DAC, but we'll see. I ordered the behringer uca202 today.
-
Hoya....I think a DAC would definitely help. I don't imagine the one in the MAC mini is very good. You can find many for under $100. I think audioengine even sells one that doubles as a headphone amp that may be in this price range. Check out NuForce they are supposed to be good and pretty cheap I think. You can always order a cheapo dac like the ones in your link from a place with a good return policy and send it back if it doesn't make a difference.
IMO, the best thing you can do to improve SQ is swap out your speakers.
Thank you sir. The audioengine DAC is $170, which seems silly given the rig I'm talking about.
Just so I understand the whole function of the DAC -- a cheapo DAC probably wouldn't help much if I could run digital/optical out of the Mac and into a digital input on my receiver, right? But because I'm dealing with a noisy analog headphone jack, I'm going to get improved performance just by using the cheap DAC to run digital audio out of my Mac via USB or optical and connecting to my all-analog receiver?
I really like the P4s - not a ton of oomph, but really accurate and clear. With rowhouse living and a basement tenant, it's about all I can ask for.
Well, if the external DAC is better than the one in the MAC, in theory you should see an improvement. Also the analog out of the MAC is probably pretty crappy so you'll be bypassing that as well. If you could go digital out from the mac to digital in on the receiver, you be bypassing the DAC on the mac and using the DAC on the reciever., but does the mac even have a digital out? You say the reciever is all analog so based on that it does not have digital inputs. Whether or not that would sound better than getting your own DAC depends on the quality of the one in the receiver. Though considering the source material, the receiver and speakers you have, who knows if you would notice. I think if you got a decent dac the biggest gain in SQ you would get would be bypassing the cheapo analog out on the mac.
the mac has a mini-TOSLINK out of the same jack as the analog 3.5mm line, I had been running a mini-TOSLINK-to-TOSLINK connect from the mac to a different receiver with an optical input. the current receiver does not have any digital inputs (optical or coax), only analog RCA inputs.
from everything i've read about 3.5mm analog out jacks on macs (and PCs for that matter), I think I'll get a nice performance boost from even a cheap USB DAC, but we'll see. I ordered the behringer uca202 today.
Check back after you put it in...i've got a fairly similar set up these days...but skipping receiver and using powered monitors. Maybe I'll go the same route. Getting a new imac in a few weeks for the family for xmas...
-
Stop having children and upgrade your receiver. I can't imagine owning a receiver with no digital inputs.
-
Stop having children and upgrade your receiver. I can't imagine owning a receiver with no digital inputs.
I have a Yamaha receiver that I bought as a home-theater-in-a-box 7 years ago with plenty of digital inputs. This Onkyo has better specs, aside from the inputs, and I only run a 2-channel setup now so have no need for all the home theater / surround sound bullshit.
-
Did you ever put the DAC in? How did it work out?
I have an imac outputting to a pair of cheap m-audio monitors via the headphone jack. Last night was messing around and remembered I had an old usb audio interface laying around....one of these -
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Alpha?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNbJx-Lt6LQCFQJx4Aod6AsAew
I installed it and ran the monitors from it and it was a HUGE difference. Quite shocking actually.
-
yes, I'm using this cheapo USB DAC and it makes a huge difference:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UCA202/
-
This guy thinks way too much about speaker grills:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkVvwS38dj4
-
The best thing I've ever done for my music listening enjoyment in the last decade wasn't to buy any fancy new electronics, surprisingly. It was to reduce background/outside noise in the room I listen to music in the most.
-
Definitely posts on this forum.
This guy thinks way too much about speaker grills:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkVvwS38dj4
-
So "audiophile" might be a stretch, but I'm going to buy either the Axiom Audio Air N2 or the Sonos 5 this week. Anyone have experience with either or both?
-
What's your go-to song for testing a new system. I've finally committed to a major upgrade to my car audio. What song will let the system shine, and demonstrate whatbits really capable of?
I'm guessing the Mountain Goats isn't the answer.
-
Depends upon what I'm testing for, but Propaganda's "The Murder Of Love" (https://youtu.be/kzt2iSNyN8Q) is great. Huge frequency range, plenty of dynamics, lots of reverb.
-
What's your go-to song for testing a new system. I've finally committed to a major upgrade to my car audio. What song will let the system shine, and demonstrate whatbits really capable of?
i'd argue that "testing" and "letting it shine" aren't quite the same thing.
to me, "testing" is critically listening to the audio system to determine how well it is performing, how well is it reproducing the playback material, evaluating its fidelity - and making corrections as needed. first criteria for selecting what to play is familiarity: do you know what the music is supposed to sound like? have you heard it a million times on other good sound systems? here are a few "reference albums" that i've read are common among audio engineers when tuning a system:
- Steely Dan: Aja
- Donald Fagen: Nightfly
- Dire Straits: Brothers in Arms
- Boz Scaggs: Lowdown
- RATM: s/t
- Jay Z: Black Album (especially for cars and other subwoofer-heavy setups)
- AC/DC: Back in Black
- Peter Gabriel: So
- The Eagles: Hell Freezes Over
- Leftfield: Leftism
(aside/true story: in 2000, i went to a untz untz untz festival where my friends knew the organizers, so we were let into the venue before the festival started - this allowed us to get killer camping spots. the main sound system was brand new, and after the festival it was going to be used on tour by the rolling stones. the festival was its test run, so some serious audio engineers with cool gadgets were on site. we were woken up one morning by 140 db of.... Joe Cocker. they played some sort of greatest hits album/collection. i had a quick chat with one of the audio guys, and he said they used Cocker because of the dynamics, full spectrum of sound, and familiarity.)
"letting it shine", on the hand, is akin to showing off in my books: make the listeners feel those subs, get blasted by clean sound at high volumes, "bet you've never heard <insert band name here> sound THIS good!!!", etc. you still want something that was well recorded, but what would be "best" in this case is much more subjective. it's less about critical listening and fidelity, and more about blowing the listener's sock off. for some people that will be metallica, for others it'll be the three tenors...
-
Steely Dan - Aja
The end
-
Thank you!
-
here are a few "reference albums" that i've read are common among audio engineers when tuning a system:
That's a lot of time to spend in your car just to test your sound system...
A couple of quick hits just to make sure it's dialed in, then take your massive cross country roadtrip with Sweets list.
To test placement, balance, connectivity, I start with Oasis' "D'You know what I Mean" - there's a one minute intro with sounds all over the place before the mix of guitars drums and bass come in.
To test the bass/subwoofer levels I use Daft Punks "Doing it Right" (the long intro allows for a lot of adjusting), XX "Angels", and Taylor Swift's "I knew you Were Trouble" (A Max Martin/Shellback dubstep bass drop refrain is perfect for tuning). RTJ's "Legend Has it" is also good.
For vocals I used to almost always use Mazzy Star's "Fade into you" but have recently added Cigarettes after Sex a lot - usually "Sunsetz" and the MTV unplugged's version of "Take on Me," probably in reverse order of how I listed them there.
And then lastly, an addition to Sweetcell's pretty good list would be Sturgill Simpson's "Sound and Fury" album because of the breadth of sounds.
EDIT: Shit, somehow I left off Pet Sounds. I usually use God Only Knows, but Sloop John B works too.
-
first criteria for selecting what to play is familiarity: do you know what the music is supposed to sound like? have you heard it a million times on other good sound systems?
forgot to add: personally, the first Shpongle album and RATM are my go-to's.
-
here are a few "reference albums" that i've read are common among audio engineers when tuning a system:
That's a lot of time to spend in your car just to test your sound system...
A couple of quick hits just to make sure it's dialed in, then take your massive cross country roadtrip with Sweets list.
To test placement, balance, connectivity, I start with Oasis' "D'You know what I Mean" - there's a one minute intro with sounds all over the place before the mix of guitars drums and bass come in.
To test the bass/subwoofer levels I use Daft Punks "Doing it Right" (the long intro allows for a lot of adjusting), XX "Angels", and Taylor Swift's "I knew you Were Trouble" (A Max Martin/Shellback dubstep bass drop refrain is perfect for tuning). RTJ's "Legend Has it" is also good.
For vocals I used to almost always use Mazzy Star's "Fade into you" but have recently added Cigarettes after Sex a lot - usually "Sunsetz" and the MTV unplugged's version of "Take on Me," probably in reverse order of how I listed them there.
And then lastly, an addition to Sweetcell's pretty good list would be Sturgill Simpson's "Sound and Fury" album because of the breadth of sounds.
EDIT: Shit, somehow I left off Pet Sounds. I usually use God Only Knows, but Sloop John B works too.
You forgot to log in to the Hutch account.
-
forgot to add: personally, the first Shpongle album and RATM are my go-to's.
That reminded me a story a former student (who now has a job at the university) recently told me about how the students were always confused about how when I was assigned to monitor the protests, which were inevitably about me as a member of the administration, I would always sing along to the songs they were playing in the quad. "It was weird that we would play RATM and none of us knew the songs as well as you did. Who is this guy in a suit singing along to Rage?"
My friends call me smack. Vansmack.
-
when I was assigned to monitor the protests, which were inevitably about me
ok...now I want to know more about this story line...pics would be nice
-
You forgot to log in to the Hutch account.
Steely Dan - Aja
-
My Peachtree iNova amp of nearly 11 years blew out over the weekend...due to a home improvement project. Fuck me.
-
My Peachtree iNova amp of nearly 11 years blew out over the weekend...due to a home improvement project. Fuck me.
wha happend...were you getting the led out or did you drop something on it?
-
My Peachtree iNova amp of nearly 11 years blew out over the weekend...due to a home improvement project. Fuck me.
wha happend...were you getting the led out or did you drop something on it?
So we had a small project taking place in our home that was creating a TON of dust... we left town for a week and I took apart/unplugged everything and packaged it away.
Hooked up everything Sunday and BOOM... right when I turned on the record player the speakers kind of crackled and and electrical burn smell came from the amp. Not sure if it's coincidental, bad timing, caused by dust, or I didn't thoroughly ensure everything was good to go before turning it back on.
I bought a cheap Sony amp for $150 last night at Best Buy and everything is working... so now I just need to decide if i want to
1. Trade in the old amp for a $200 credit for a new one
2. Attempt to get it fixed
3. Say fuck it and keep the cheap sony
-
My Peachtree iNova amp of nearly 11 years blew out over the weekend...due to a home improvement project. Fuck me.
wha happend...were you getting the led out or did you drop something on it?
So we had a small project taking place in our home that was creating a TON of dust... we left town for a week and I took apart/unplugged everything and packaged it away.
Hooked up everything Sunday and BOOM... right when I turned on the record player the speakers kind of crackled and and electrical burn smell came from the amp. Not sure if it's coincidental, bad timing, caused by dust, or I didn't thoroughly ensure everything was good to go before turning it back on.
I bought a cheap Sony amp for $150 last night at Best Buy and everything is working... so now I just need to decide if i want to
1. Trade in the old amp for a $200 credit for a new one
2. Attempt to get it fixed
3. Say fuck it and keep the cheap sony
I would try to get a repair quote. Might just be a bad capacitor.
-
Might just be a bad capacitor.
Are you saying his capacitor is in flux?
-
Might just be a bad capacitor.
Are you saying his capacitor is in flux?
Great Scott, you might be right.
-
My Peachtree iNova amp of nearly 11 years blew out over the weekend...due to a home improvement project. Fuck me.
wha happend...were you getting the led out or did you drop something on it?
So we had a small project taking place in our home that was creating a TON of dust... we left town for a week and I took apart/unplugged everything and packaged it away.
Hooked up everything Sunday and BOOM... right when I turned on the record player the speakers kind of crackled and and electrical burn smell came from the amp. Not sure if it's coincidental, bad timing, caused by dust, or I didn't thoroughly ensure everything was good to go before turning it back on.
I bought a cheap Sony amp for $150 last night at Best Buy and everything is working... so now I just need to decide if i want to
1. Trade in the old amp for a $200 credit for a new one
2. Attempt to get it fixed
3. Say fuck it and keep the cheap sony
I would try to get a repair quote. Might just be a bad capacitor.
Peachtree direct doesn't repair this product any longer and Gramophone is charging $150 just to look at it but will put that fee towards repair IF it can be fixed.
Any other DMV suggestions?
-
not at all my field of expertise, but I will say in IT/Pluming...typically it's going to be $150 to even have them take a peek
-
not at all my field of expertise, but I will say in IT/Pluming...typically it's going to be $150 to even have them take a peek
Hence my reluctance based on age of product and original cost.
-
Any other DMV suggestions?
Try turning it off and turning it on again. That usually works.
If not, give it a good, swift kick in the side.
-
Everything breaks now…even the good stuff
I would just take the credit
-
Everything breaks now…even the good stuff
I would just take the credit
He has spoken.
I think I'm fine with this cheap Sony thing I got yesterday. Headhunters (my go to testing record) is thumping.
-
So what difference, if any, did you notice (besides appearance)
I get the concept of what a good amp can provide for the sound, but I’ve never heard the difference the amp makes
-
It adds clarity, detail and the potential for volume. It is well worth the investment.
-
You'll hear things you've never heard before, in songs you've listened to your whole life.
-
The difference between any amp, a good amp and a Julian's America amp is 100% incremental, and far superior than having no amp at all.
Its kind of like guacamole. Even mediocre guac is far superior to no guac, and excellent guac is only marginally better than good guac.
Guac.
-
Oh sure, you can claim that a vintage tube amp provides more nuance than a Sony doodad, but can you really hear the difference. Can you?
Are you listening to Spotify?
Did you convert all of your MP3s to FLAC because now they're lossless?
Do you still have your college roommate's JBLs from 20-years ago?
-
Santa's on the sauce again. I love it!
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/5xtDaryAMLjvAyN4eiY/giphy.gif)
-
Santa's on the sauce again. I love it!
What a brilliant retort to that threaded manifesto
Bonus points for the guac 🥑 soliloquy
-
Did you convert all of your MP3s to FLAC because now they're lossless?
this made me laugh way more than it should have.
-
Did you convert all of your MP3s to FLAC because now they're lossless?
this made me laugh way more than it should have.
FLAC may be lossless but it really can’t replicate the warmth you get with SHN files with checksums.
-
Did you convert all of your MP3s to FLAC because now they're lossless?
this made me laugh way more than it should have.
FLAC may be lossless but it really can’t replicate the warmth you get with SHN files with checksums.
There's an MC5/MD5 joke in here somewhere, but I'm too tired to think of it.