930 Forums

=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: ggw on December 23, 2002, 11:48:00 am

Title: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: ggw on December 23, 2002, 11:48:00 am: If you read Pitchfork with any regularity, I don't think you'll find any surprises. <A HREF="http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/top/2002/index.shtml" TARGET=_blank>http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/top/2002/index.shtml[/url]
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 23, 2002, 11:52:00 am: I would me musically lost without Pitchform telling me what I should listen to. They truly are my musical bible. The musical diversity of this list is overwhelming! Everything from the Liars to the Hot Snakes to Interpol!
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 12:29:00 pm: Hum, well I own 2 of the fifty. If Interpol really was the best album of the year then no wonder Mankie and I sit around listening to 80's pop.But then again apparently so do interpol, great.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jadetree on December 23, 2002, 12:38:00 pm: Interesting choice of bands Henry, how many people talk about those exact 3 bands, sure Liars and Interpol, a lot of people do, but not many others on the board talk about Hot Snakes being a favorite, are you trying to get me to respond? And there actually is some diversity on the list, but I realize you are just trying to be a pain in the ass and that you just dont know the ones that are different.I own 12 of the albums, and I would say half of those deserve the recognition. I would disagree that Interpol is the top album, but it is one of the top albums of the year.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 12:44:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by jadetree: I own 12 of the albums, and I would say half of those deserve the recognition. I would disagree that Interpol is the top album, but it is one of the top albums of the year.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hum, Jadetree, do you only like things that pitchfork recommends?
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 23, 2002, 12:48:00 pm: Kind of hard for me to take seriously a list that only includes one (Neko Case) alt-country/country/folk/bluegrass/rockabilly/blues/roots rock album out of 50.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jadetree on December 23, 2002, 12:51:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: Hum, Jadetree, do you only like things that pitchfork recommends?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I imagine you are in a especially bad mood today due to the news yes pitchfork actually is my bible, like Henry said, if their server goes down it will be like end times for me
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: paige on December 23, 2002, 12:52:00 pm: i own about 4 of those i think....good choices i guess. oh wait, i haven't heard of almost half of the bands on there. have i been living under a rock?
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 01:04:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Henry Dark: Kind of hard for me to take seriously a list that only includes one (Neko Case) alt-country/country/folk/bluegrass/rockabilly/blues/roots rock album out of 50.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>well wilco was there, I think those musical genres have slipped away from the cutting edge..... Not that most of the albums in the list seem to be on the cutting edge either.... Interpol might have been cutting edge 20 years ago.....
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: thirsty moore on December 23, 2002, 01:06:00 pm: Poorlulu typing for you? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: well wilco was there, I think those musical genres have slipped away from the cutting edge..... Not that most of the albums in the list seem to be on the cutting edge either.... Interpol might have been cutting edge 20 years ago.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 23, 2002, 01:08:00 pm: Though I love Wilco's album, it's definitely not alt-country. I think most of the people who bought that album are probably people who don't listen to much alt-country. (Not saying this in a judgemental way, just an opinion way.) Maybe alt-alt-country would be a better phrase. I counted 24 that I had heard/heard of. I wonder if they are the same half that Paige has heard of.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 01:09:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by jadetree: I imagine you are in a especially bad mood today due to the news yes pitchfork actually is my bible, like Henry said, if their server goes down it will be like end times for me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, I am in rather a grump today. When heroes go they go down fast, so dont expect any time to equivocate the past.Why Strummer, why not McCartney or Daltrey, why oh why?
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 01:11:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by thirsty moore: Poorlulu typing for you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No.....I am just feeling disjointed today.......And my posting and sentences will reflect that......
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 01:14:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Henry Dark: I counted 24 that I had heard/heard of. I wonder if they are the same half that Paige has heard of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have not even heard/heard of that many. It seems that only obscure new bands and Eminem need apply.Why not have some more mature bands who put out fine work last year?did someone say:Lambchop Cinerama Gomezoh yes it was me.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 23, 2002, 01:25:00 pm: And don't forget the Streets. That guy is the Morrissey of rap.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 01:27:00 pm: I dont have the streets album yet..... I will get it though. I thought the single that keeps getting played is rather good.....Anyone here know who John Cooper Clark is though?
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Sir HC on December 23, 2002, 01:29:00 pm: Well I own five, seen about 15-20 of the bands live, and will have to go out and buy at least 4 of the records on the list. Dalek is killer, a quote from them once was "We want to be the My Bloody Valentine of Hip-Hop". Any band with a wah pedal for the dj is too cool.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Sir HC on December 23, 2002, 01:31:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: I dont have the streets album yet..... I will get it though. I thought the single that keeps getting played is rather good.....Anyone here know who John Cooper Clark is though?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>John Cooper Clark, wasn't he a poet from the late 70's early 80's who would do live performances at concerts? He is in the movie "Urgh, A music War" and his albums are reviewed in Trouser's Press. This is from memory, so I could be wrong, I could be right.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 01:41:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sir HC: I could be wrong, I could be right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>they put a hot wire to your head beacuse of the things you did and said?Oooops, Sounds about right to me. He was an urban punk poet very much in the streets style.I keep meaning to buy his old albums....
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 23, 2002, 01:41:00 pm: I was only joking about the Streets. I've heard a couple of things off of it and found it highly annoying. But then again, I probably haven't bought any hip hop since Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet came out.[ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: I dont have the streets album yet..... I will get it though. I thought the single that keeps getting played is rather good.....Anyone here know who John Cooper Clark is though?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 23, 2002, 01:44:00 pm: Perhaps you could supplant annoying with challenging.I would.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 23, 2002, 01:46:00 pm: Sorry, white guys rapping are always just annoying to me. Maybe his lyrics are relevant and all, so maybe I'll just stick to reading the lyric sheet.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Sir HC on December 23, 2002, 02:04:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: they put a hot wire to your head beacuse of the things you did and said?Oooops, Sounds about right to me. He was an urban punk poet very much in the streets style.I keep meaning to buy his old albums....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So it is him in the movie. He is beyond funny, starts his poem with a heckler who I guess yells "Turn the lights off!", then he says "Turn the lights off? What do you mean I'm a visual act". Hear he has a live album that is the best, someday I will get that one. Better not buy my copy!
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: ggw on December 23, 2002, 03:55:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Henry Dark: Kind of hard for me to take seriously a list that only includes one (Neko Case) alt-country/country/folk/bluegrass/rockabilly/blues/roots rock album out of 50.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My God!!! An indie-oriented hipster-zine not including alt.country -- oh the horror!!! You don't think this list might be....dare I say....subjective? And geared toward its readership??Should we discount altcountrytab.com's year-end list because it doesn't include hip-hop?Should we ignore No Depression because they don't include any electroclash?Pitchfork's list was in keeping with the zine's general worldview. No surprises.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: thirsty moore on December 23, 2002, 03:58:00 pm: Those fuckers didn't include Lawrence Welk. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ggw: My God!!! An indie-oriented hipster-zine not including alt.country -- oh the horror!!! You don't think this list might be....dare I say....subjective? And geared toward its readership??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jadetree on December 23, 2002, 04:03:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ggw: altcountrytab.com's year-end list B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>1 - Rhett Miller - The Instigator 2 - Tift Merrit - Bramble Rose 3 - Josh Rouse - Under Cold Blue Stars 4 - Johnny Cash - American IV: The Man Comes Around 5 - Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot 6 - Chris Mills - The Silver Line 7 - Ryan Adams - Demolition 8 - Richmond Fontaine - Winnemucca 9 - Peter Bruntnell - Ends Of The Earth 10 - Neko Case - BlacklistedI have two of these, but should eventually have 4 of them. No hip-hop, hmmmm.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Sir HC on December 23, 2002, 04:15:00 pm: And two of them are on the Pitchfork list too. Wilco is number two IIRC.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Jaguär on December 23, 2002, 09:15:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sir HC: John Cooper Clark, wasn't he a poet from the late 70's early 80's who would do live performances at concerts? He is in the movie "Urgh, A music War" and his albums are reviewed in Trouser's Press. This is from memory, so I could be wrong, I could be right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, he is. In fact, he had just recently (this past Spring/Summer) been doing a few readings in England before a some shows....possibley Doves but not sure of that. There is a possibility that it may have just been a film of him reading but I think he was actually there.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Jaguär on December 23, 2002, 09:20:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: I have not even heard/heard of that many. It seems that only obscure new bands and Eminem need apply.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've heard of 30 of them but it is an odd list.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 24, 2002, 09:40:00 am: Not being a reader of Pitchfork, I had no orientation of what their musical direction was. Whereas the name "altcountrytab.com" pretty much tells me the musical agenda that that zine is pushing (I don't read that online zine either, but could guess what their best of list would be like based on the name), the name Pitchfork really tells me nothing about what music they would cover (unless I hearken back to the days of growing up on the farm, using a pitchfork to scoop up three feet of calf shit in the back stalls of our cow barn...and that would remind me of the bad mainstream country radio my Dad would play because my Dad said the cows would give more milk listening to that than the classic rock I wanted to hear). Based on a few links that you had posted in the past, I would have hoped for Pitchfork to be a more musically eclectic site that (ala KEXP) embraced the vital new music of both somewhat established artists (eg the ones Markie mentioned) as well as newer artists...with a mix of rock, jazz, country, world, folk, hip hop, bluegrass etc. What it appears to be (based on reading these 50 reviews) is a site with people writing reviews that make me go "What the fuck did he just say?" about obscure indie bands and a sprinkling of mainstream rap (presumably to prove how "down" they are with the hip hop nation?) Thus, perhaps my guesses about what type of site it it were just wrong. Given the slant toward obscurity and the non-inclusiveness of it genre wise (in my opinion), I think I'll stick to listening to KEXP or reading the Village Voice Pazz and Jop Poll. <A HREF="http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/01/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/pazznjop/01/[/url] <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ggw: My God!!! An indie-oriented hipster-zine not including alt.country -- oh the horror!!! You don't think this list might be....dare I say....subjective? And geared toward its readership??Should we discount altcountrytab.com's year-end list because it doesn't include hip-hop?Should we ignore No Depression because they don't include any electroclash?Pitchfork's list was in keeping with the zine's general worldview. No surprises.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jsnow2 on December 24, 2002, 11:36:00 am: I love the Liars record, and I think Hot Snakes could have been ranked higher. I also would have liked to have seen the new J Mascis and the Fog, The Catheters new record, the Mars Volta E.P. Tremulant, Sparta's Wiretap Scars, Queens of the Stone Age Songs For The Deaf, and the new Rocket from the Crypt. But that is just because of my own personal tastes. I understand that would be completely biased. Interpol is a nice record, certainly welcome in a top 50, but not the best record of the year.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jsnow2 on December 24, 2002, 11:39:00 am: Henry Dark - I can appreciate your feeling that pitchfork is slanted and disenchanted. But the Village Voice list has records from 2001. I am not sure that is much better.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 24, 2002, 11:47:00 am: Tis true, but we are still in 2002. Thus, the Best of 2002 really shouldn't come out until 2002 is over. I just put the link up as a point of comparison. I'm sure that one of us on the board will put up the 2002 list once it is revealed, probably next month. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by jsnow2: Henry Dark - I can appreciate your feeling that pitchfork is slanted and disenchanted. But the Village Voice list has records from 2001. I am not sure that is much better.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jadetree on December 24, 2002, 01:01:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Henry Dark: What it appears to be (based on reading these 50 reviews) is a site with people writing reviews that make me go "What the fuck did he just say?" about obscure indie bands and a sprinkling of mainstream rap (presumably to prove how "down" they are with the hip hop nation?) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <A HREF="http://www.obscureindiebandssomemainstreamrapbecausewearedowntab.com" TARGET=_blank>www.obscureindiebandssomemainstreamrapbecausewearedowntab.com[/url] is a great site
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: ggw on December 24, 2002, 05:32:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Henry Dark: What it appears to be (based on reading these 50 reviews) is a site with people writing reviews that make me go "What the fuck did he just say?" about obscure indie bands and a sprinkling of mainstream rap <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Obscure indie bands like Tom Waits, Beck, Neko Case, Sonic Youth, Sleater-Kinney, and Wilco?Under the name "Pitchfork" it reads "Independent Music Daily" which seems like a tip-off that it might be about independent music (and that it is updated daily).You may not like it, but I bet you will see the Pitchfork top 3 (Interpol, Wilco, ..Trail of Dead) on more than a few year-end "Best of" lists.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 24, 2002, 05:53:00 pm: Hey GGW, did someone not tell you that its the season of good will to all men?Anyhow I kinda agree with Rhett, picking out 5 less obscure acts, if you like, although I doubt most people in the street know who Neko Case or most of the others are......It is a very obscure list that refuses to even nod to the likes of Supergrass or Gomez, but likes Waits and Eminem and 30 other acts I have never heard of.Besides if they had picked something else as their #1 album of the year I might give them some credit. As it is, I dont.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: ggw on December 24, 2002, 06:00:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: Hey GGW, did someone not tell you that its the season of good will to all men?Anyhow I kinda agree with Rhett, picking out 5 less obscure acts, if you like, although I doubt most people in the street know who Neko Case or most of the others are......It is a very obscure list that refuses to even nod to the likes of Supergrass or Gomez, but likes Waits and Eminem and 30 other acts I have never heard of.Besides if they had picked something else as their #1 album of the year I might give them some credit. As it is, I dont.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Bah fucking humbug.Pitchfork has always been pretentious and independenter-than-thou. I'm actually a little surprised at how "mainstream" their top choices are. And they definitely have a U.S. over U.K. bias. Although, I don't think Supergrass has been released in the U.S. yet, so you can hope for its appearance on the 2003 list.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 24, 2002, 06:19:00 pm: alright GGW fair enough. One thing though. I have gone out of my way to get someone to give me their opinion of interpol, and no one has. Why is that, and what do you think?
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Jaguär on December 24, 2002, 07:05:00 pm: Okay, Pitchfork is too Amerocentric for me. Though I lean towards British music, I prefer my music sites, etc, to be more inclusive than just one nationality. It's just too limiting for my tastes. Markie, I like Interpol though they can leave me a little cold at times. I do have to be in the mood for them but definitely like them. The best album of the year? Nope. Not in my opinion. What is? I don't know and don't even feel like thinking about it but Interpol would, at best, be somewhere in the top 10 but not #1. Personally, I tend to like very dark and somber music, which Interpol is. Must be something that resonates with my personality. I do think that they need to work with filling out their songs a little more. A few more dynamics or something. Hopefully, they will be there soon enough otherwise the Hip Set might just get bored with them when the next best thing comes around.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Relaxer on December 26, 2002, 11:06:00 am: Interpol sounds to me like a lot of early 80s British post-punk bands, with somewhat atonal vocals and jagged guitars that go more for a sweeping sound than a series of riffs. Plus there often are either keyboards or heavy guitar effects. I admire the album more than I really like it, and the fact that it's a debut makes it more impressive. The great-sounding live show helped too.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: paige on December 26, 2002, 11:36:00 am: you forgot to add that Paul is hot. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Relaxer: Interpol sounds to me like a lot of early 80s British post-punk bands, with somewhat atonal vocals and jagged guitars that go more for a sweeping sound than a series of riffs. Plus there often are either keyboards or heavy guitar effects. I admire the album more than I really like it, and the fact that it's a debut makes it more impressive. The great-sounding live show helped too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Relaxer on December 26, 2002, 11:47:00 am: Oh yeah, Paul the singer is hot. And Carlos the bass player is fabulous.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: ggw on December 26, 2002, 12:04:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: alright GGW fair enough. One thing though. I have gone out of my way to get someone to give me their opinion of interpol, and no one has. Why is that, and what do you think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think Interpol is excellent, but I don't see their album as the best album of 2002. In a year of bands unabashedly derivative of '70s garage rock, I think Pitchfork probably gave Interpol points for being derivative of something totally different -- Manchester in the '80s.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: markie on December 26, 2002, 12:17:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jaguär: Markie, I like Interpol though they can leave me a little cold at times. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You are not the only one that feels that way. Somehow there is a lack of any real meaning or emotion to any of the songs.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jadetree on December 26, 2002, 12:28:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by markie: You are not the only one that feels that way. Somehow there is a lack of any real meaning or emotion to any of the songs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think offering someone 200 couches to sleep on is a very emotional gesture. I dont follow your meaning.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: poorlulu on December 26, 2002, 12:34:00 pm: it would only be emotional if someone was so big they needed two hundred couches to sleap on.............. although after the foodfest of the last 2 days..............my tummy hurts.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jadetree on December 26, 2002, 12:38:00 pm: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by poorlulu: although after the foodfest of the last 2 days..............my tummy hurts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>same here
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: jsnow2 on December 27, 2002, 10:35:00 am: I still think J Mascis, Sparta, Queens of the Stone Age and Rocket From The Crypt should have been mentioned on that list. And I think that Hot Snakes should have been numero uno, followed by Trail of Dead. I have to admit, I am not really that turned on by most of the major foreign releases of the year, Coldplay, The Music, Supergrass, etc...But I usually don't tend to think of it in those terms. As a final note I wish the Burning Brides re-release of Fall of the Plastic Empire was listed as well.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 27, 2002, 10:39:00 am: I was glad to see that the Post reviewers avoided almost all of the Pitchfork stuff on their year end lists.Though the snot nosed City Paper critics tended to agree with Pitchfork.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: ggw on December 27, 2002, 10:54:00 am: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Henry Dark: I was glad to see that the Post reviewers avoided almost all of the Pitchfork stuff on their year end lists. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Considering how often you criticize the Post reviewers, I guess that's a backhanded compliment to Pitchfork.
Title: Re: Pitchfork's top 50 of 2002
Post by: Henry Dark on December 27, 2002, 11:05:00 am: Actually, I didn't realize that I criticized the Post reviewers. Thanks for letting me know that info. I'm glad somebody takes notice of the nonsense I spew, because I guess that I don't.What the hell did I just say?