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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: HoyaSaxa03 on January 28, 2008, 08:09:00 pm
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we might as well keep a running conversation somewhere other than smackie's vanity thread ;)
Qtrax Debut on Hold Amid Licensing Snag (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/28/AR2008012801284_pf.html)
CANNES, France -- A distributor of Internet file-swapping software abruptly postponed the launch of its free online music service until it can finalize music licensing deals _ a detail the company omitted when it threw a star-studded coming-out party over the weekend.
Qtrax's ambitious, ad-supported music service promised unlimited, advertising-supported music downloads with the blessing of the major recording companies. That claim began to unravel just hours before Qtrax's scheduled debut Monday when Warner Music Group Corp. issued a statement that it had not authorized the firm to distribute its artists' music.
Other major record labels soon followed.
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this one sounds like a real winner, licensing problems aside
"Qtrax does indeed purport to be a free legal music downloading service, with 30 million high quality tracks from all the majors. You download its special client, which in turn downloads the music from the not-notably-legal Gnutella P2P network. The client filters out bad and unlicensed tracks, bungs on some DRM, adds adverts and the stuff's yours."
http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10007187o-2000331777b,00.htm (http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10007187o-2000331777b,00.htm)
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even more fun stuff on Qtrax
I was finally able to get the Qtrax 0.2 beta client from a German site (thanks to commenter HellBoyTom), and it's clearly based on Songbird.
To register with Qtrax, download the client, follow a download link from the front page, and follow the "Register" link from the upper-right hand corner. But once you've done that, you'll still be waiting for downloads to be enabled.
Songbird defies easy summarization: it's an open-source project, based on the Mozilla platform, that intends to ease the creation of digital media apps. The basic app is a straightforward music library organizer and player (some of Songbird's founders worked on Winamp), and Songbird offers resources for developers to create customized versions of this basic player (think APIs, documentation, sample code, a loose license, and so on.) It's an intriguing project, but I hadn't seen any compelling reason to download it.
The experience is akin to using a skinned version of Firefox: the "browser" appears in the middle of the screen, and defaults to a Qtrax page that offers featured artists, such as Foo Fighters and Amy Winehouse. Surrounding this screen are various other UI elements, including the all-important advertisements. From the home page, you can register via a link on the upper right hand side of the page, and once you've confirmed your registration via e-mail, you're ready to use Qtrax's search engine to find songs. This music's obviously not in a Qtrax-owned database. If I had to guess how it works, it seems to scan pages from all over the Web, looking for audio file extensions--sort of like JimmyR's Mp3 Music Search page, which is basically a modified Google search.
Qtrax found my test case, UFO's "Love to Love"--about ten different versions, in fact--but the download button gave me an disappointing but not surprising message that downloads are coming soon. Apparently until the licensing deals are worked out, there's no there there.
http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13526_1-9859840-27.html (http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13526_1-9859840-27.html)
The open source folks will have a fit over this one...
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qtrax have at least gotten Songbird licensed correctly...
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U2's manager on controlling filesharing (http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/industry/e3i062b16e707aa99916c212e660cbffd3e)
(found via Coolfer (http://www.coolfer.com) )
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You know the more I think about Qtrax, the move I'm inclined to stay the hell away..
Presumably, the Qtrax P2P client is interacting with other Gnutella users, other wise it would take some time to build up the catalog of 20 to 30 Million songs. Which means they have no control on whats actually available, how files are encoded, if the files are named correctly, etc.
The part that concerns me is that if I'm sharing files via Qtrax and it's typically the file sharer that the RIAA goes after. If they go to another Qtrax user it's considered "legal"... Will it be considered illegal if it goes to a non-Qtrax user? Quite frankly that alone doesn't make it worth the hassle and risk to use the product.
Not to mention will it still be illegal to download material not released in the US. What happens is the current Gnutella users decide they don't want a bunch of freeloaders clogging up their sharing and stop.
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awesome link, BC. thoughts/comments:
Radiohead's honesty box principle showed that if not constrained, the customer will steal music.
while true - you can't deny the facts - that statements needs to be qualified. some stole b/c they didn't want to pay anything, not even the .99 transaction charge. but i truly believe that many used P2P to download In Rainbows because it was easier - less steps, less hassle, and faster DL for the most part. compare the p2p route (search for "in rainbows" and click on result) to the hoops one had to go through to order legitimately (go through multi-step shopping basket, open up account and type in address, enter CC number, confirm order, wait for e-mail, go to new website with code... and then hope that the download was fast). until buying online become easier, natural laziness will ensure that people will choose the path of least resistance. to say that music consumers are evil looking to steal is wrong. we're mostly lazy.
the collapse of the old financial model for recorded music will also mean the end of the songwriter
no, it'll mean that the songwriter - and heaven forbid, the labels - will have to innovate and find a new financial model. sure is easier to prop up the old one using threats (blanketed under a "moral imperative" by the speaker).
Their snouts have been at our trough feeding free for too long.
hum, sounds familiar...
i think i'm going to fire up my p2p client and see if i can DL an MP3 of this speech. lots of good samples to be had in there.
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Well I did wonder about some this...
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9860263-7.html?tag=tb (http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9860263-7.html?tag=tb)
After labels, Qtrax must satisfy Prince, Van Morrison
Should troubled file-sharing site Qtrax, eventually strike licensing deals with the major music companies, it still may face a significant hurdle.
Web Sheriff, a company representing music acts such as Prince, Van Morrison, and The Black Crowes, has notified Qtrax that it shouldn't think about offering their music, photographs, or other intellectual property until it has secured the artists' OK.
"Whilst Qtrax is an interesting model, many major label and indie artists will not be happy about their music being given away free (to consumers) in return for a currently opaque return from advertising revenues," said John Giacobbi, Web Sheriff's president, in an e-mail.
While Qtrax doesn't appear to have begun offering music downloads, there are photos posted to the site of artists such as the Foo Fighters, Daft Punk, and Wyclef Jean.
Daft Punk is on the EMI label while Jean and the Foo Fighters are represented by Sony BMG Music Entertainment. Representatives from Qtrax and the labels could not be reached for comment late Monday evening. It's unclear whether Qtrax has permission to use the photos.
"Any unauthorized use of copyright photos and/or copyright artwork is in violation of (the law)," Giacobbi said.
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Anyone here subscribe to KCRW's podcasts? They post occasional live sets and a daily song. Today's song is a cover of "Creep" by Damien Rice. For me, the podcasts have been a good no-fuss source of new stuff.
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It's funny to see the industry come all the back around to where they were day one with Napster - albeit nearly ten years later. And they still can't do the right thing. Amazing.
I'd imagine this is fairly frustrating for Fanning to read.
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So is Qtrax.com the most clueless company ever?
BAM Racing gets sponsor for Shootout
BAM Racing officials announced Tuesday that Qtrax.com will sponsor the team's No. 49 Dodge driven by Ken Schrader in Saturday's Budweiser Shootout at Daytona International Speedway.
that and the brilliant press release (http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=817862) touting hits, ad impressions, number of users online, and the just the hint of music file availability. They are now merely touting the software as a media player for now. Of course it is just a rebranded Songbird, software it's self still under development.
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from the "justice bites off more than it can chew" thread:
Originally posted by kosmo:
a bunch of those are available on eMusic...
alright already, i give up - i'll join eMusic. two questions for you regular eMusic'ers:
1) what bitrate are most songs?
2) if i sign up for 30 tracks a month and only DL 20, what happens to the other 10 - roll over, or lose them?
if anyone wants to invite me and get the referral bonus, go for it (PM me for e-mail address). as long as i still get my 50 track sign-up bonus.
edit: #2 isn't as important anymore, as i see that they have a download manager... i'm assuming i can queue up a bunch of DLs, and use that to ensure that i grab my monthly allotment.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
1) what bitrate are most songs?
ditto on this question
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Originally posted by chaz:
Originally posted by sweetcell:
1) what bitrate are most songs?
ditto on this question [/b]
VBR, from mid-100s to low-200s.
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not only VBR but LAME encoded as well..
invite sent to sweetcell hoping i'm not to late...
the download manager is only used for one time downloading, doesn't really create a queue for use at a late date... need to use the save for later or create playlists to do remind ones self of what to download. downloads do not rollover and by all means do not sign up for the audiobook subscription, it's a bit ugly...
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Found this new application currently in beta called Reble.fm which allows you to listen to music on a friends computer over the internet. But me thinks they need to get better legal counsel. The response to is this program legal is
"The key to Reble is that you're sharing music with a small set of people that you know. Copies of songs can only be listened to by one person at a time, so other potential listeners have to wait until you're done. Tragic I know. Since we're based on a streaming architecture illegal copies of songs do not spread, unlike filesharing programs. Finally, none of your library data is centrally stored, it's between you and your friends."
As one commentor point out on Techcrunch... Does anyone remember Aimster and how long it lasted?
Anyone want to predict how long it's before this app goes into the great beyond?
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don't get me wrong rebel.fm is a cool idea and would be a nifty way to share playlists and yes it's sort of like having friends over to listen to music, but it needs a way to get legal in terms of copyright law.
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kosmo - got your invite, thanks. i'll be signing up over the weekend probably.
about Reble.fm: is it peer-to-peer, or does it depend on a central server? b/c if it's true p2p, we should all DL the app as soon as possible. the company will definitely be shut down, but once it's installed we'll be able to stream each other's music collections. preview city!
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p2p and only the windows client is available currently... it's built on the Jabber open source instant messaging protocol... and what your saying is download now and use later ;)
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Anyone using Anywhere.fm? because I'm liking whats on offer... i.e. Upload your own music, let others listen to it and it's licensed! Only problem is I don't generally rip my CDs to MP3s....
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More DRM silliness courtesy Sony
"Sony kills DRM stores -- your DRM music will only last until your next upgrade"
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/01/sony-kills-drm-store.html (http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/01/sony-kills-drm-store.html)
the gist being that SONY is discontinuing their DRM riddle store and the catch is one can only enjoy music purchased from it on the computer or player on which it's been downloaded to.
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Originally posted by kosmo:
Anyone using Anywhere.fm? because I'm liking whats on offer... i.e. Upload your own music, let others listen to it and it's licensed! Only problem is I don't generally rip my CDs to MP3s....
what format do you rip to - flac?
interesting service, but i don't need my music on the go - i have what i need on my work laptop. and i have more music than i know what to do with (and here comes emusic). i'm looking to simplify my life, so i'll skip on this one.
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i generally don't rip my CDs at all seeing as I don't own or really want an iPod... so it's a mixture of CD and eMusic mp3s for moi... kosmette rips AAC for her iPod which isn't supported by this site yet...
i'm not looking to use this service as online storage only to be able to recreate my playlist so people can legally listen to them.
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Originally posted by kosmo:
More DRM silliness courtesy Sony
"Sony kills DRM stores -- your DRM music will only last until your next upgrade"
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/01/sony-kills-drm-store.html (http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/01/sony-kills-drm-store.html)
the gist being that SONY is discontinuing their DRM riddle store and the catch is one can only enjoy music purchased from it on the computer or player on which it's been downloaded to.
I can't believe that Sony would do such a thing </sarcasm>.
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I love the user policy:
Don't Steal Music!
It's the first one I've ever read in its entirety.
Originally posted by kosmo:
don't get me wrong rebel.fm is a cool idea and would be a nifty way to share playlists and yes it's sort of like having friends over to listen to music, but it needs a way to get legal in terms of copyright law.
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I'd be wary of how much time you're putting into these new ventures. I will never forget how many nights I spent uploading my CDs into MP3.com's database so that I could stream them from MP3.com's website no matter where I was only to have the site shut down in a month.
That's kind of how I feel about all of these sites until they do one of two things:
(1) Amend the DMCA
(2) Work out a deal with the recording industry
The idea of if we build it they will come and then they'll have to negotiate with us is such a failed model at this point...
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I didn't have to upload anything with Reble.fm. I came home from work to find all of my songs catalogs and ready, without much effort on my part.
Search for aobehr if you want to browse. I warn you...it's hipster friendly.
Originally posted by vansmack:
I'd be wary of how much time you're putting into these new ventures. I will never forget how many nights I spent uploading my CDs into MP3.com's database so that I could stream them from MP3.com's website no matter where I was only to have the site shut down in a month.
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kosmo -- thought you and others would like this blog: http://blog.wired.com/music/ (http://blog.wired.com/music/)
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iTunes DRM hacked (http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article3403705.ece)
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this is actually video and not music, but i didn't want to start another thread for this:
Hulu (http://www.hulu.com/) - watch streaming TV shows and movies (but mostly clips of the latter, as far as i can tell). looks legit.
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well i was going to make a bunch of snide remarks about the recent itunes/beatles deal, but it turns out that the initial reports were false...
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Originally posted by kosmo:
well i was going to make a bunch of snide remarks about the recent itunes/beatles deal, but it turns out that the initial reports were false...
It was because of the American Idol night where they performed Lennon/McCartney songs and because of the Apple/AI deal, they were all made available on iTunes. That's what all the deliberations were about - crappy cover versions!
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actually it was this report
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/07/nmacca107.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/07/nmacca107.xml)
iTunes to strike deal over Beatles' hits
By Sophie Borland
Last Updated: 2:16am GMT 08/03/2008
Sir Paul McCartney is expected to release the Beatles back catalogue for download on the internet in a deal which could be worth up to £300 million.
blah blah blah
guess the unnamed source close to macca didn't have the story correct..
it would appear this story got legs due to paul's pending divorce settlement and possibly micheal jackson's own financial problems.
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found another one of those upload and share music with your friends websites and i shit you not as this is what is posted about whether or not it's legal
tunesbag.com
Is tunesBag a legal service?
Yes, tunesBag can only be used to manage music you already have. You can share your library with friends according to the law in Austria (Privatkopie).
Austrian law
§ 42 UrhG. (1) Jedermann darf von einem Werk einzelne Vervielfältigungsstücke auf Papier oder einem ähnlichen Träger zum eigenen Gebrauch herstellen.
(4) Jede natürliche Person darf von einem Werk einzelne Vervielfältigungsstücke auf anderen als den in Abs. 1 genannten Trägern zum privaten Gebrauch und weder für unmittelbare noch mittelbare kommerzielle Zwecke herstellen.
(5) Eine Vervielfältigung zum eigenen oder privaten Gebrauch liegt vorbehaltlich der Abs. 6 und 7 nicht vor, wenn sie zu dem Zweck vorgenommen wird, das Werk mit Hilfe des Vervielfältigungsstückes der �ffentlichkeit zugänglich zu machen. Zum eigenen oder privaten Gebrauch hergestellte Vervielfältigungsstücke dürfen nicht dazu verwendet werden, das Werk damit der �ffentlichkeit zugänglich zu machen.
Source: www.ris.bka.gv.at (http://www.ris.bka.gv.at)
Further information: i4j.at
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Anyone see Billy Bragg's Op-Ed piece for the New York Times this weekend?
Op-Ed Contributor
The Royalty Scam (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/opinion/22bragg.html)
By BILLY BRAGG
Dorset, England
LAST week at South by Southwest, the rock music conference held every year in Austin, Tex., the talk in hotel lobbies, coffeeshops and the convention center was dominated by one issue: how do musicians make a living in the age of the Internet? Itâ??s a problem our industry has struggled with in the wake of the rising popularity of sharing mp3 music files.
Our discussions were brought into sharp relief when news reached Austin of the sale of Bebo.com to AOL for a staggering $850 million. Bebo is a social-networking site whose membership has risen to 40 million in just two years. In Britain, it ranks with MySpace and Facebook in popularity, although its users tend to come from a younger age group.
Estimates suggested that the founder, Michael Birch (along with his wife and co-founder, Xochi), walked away with $600 million for his 70 percent stake in the company.
I heard the news with a particular piquancy, as Mr. Birch has cited me as an influence in Beboâ??s attitude toward artists. He got in touch two years ago after I took MySpace to task over its proprietary rights clause. I was concerned that the site was harvesting residual rights from original songs posted there by unsigned musicians. As a result of my complaints, MySpace changed its terms and conditions to state clearly that all rights to material appearing on the site remain with the originator.
A few weeks later, Mr. Birch came to see me at my home. He was hoping to expand his business by hosting music and wanted my advice on how to construct an artist-centered environment where musicians could post original songs without fear of losing control over their work. Following our talks, Mr. Birch told the press that he wanted Bebo to be a site that worked for artists and held their interests first and foremost.
In our discussions, we largely ignored the elephant in the room: the issue of whether he ought to consider paying some kind of royalties to the artists. After all, wasnâ??t he using their music to draw members â?? and advertising â?? to his business? Social-networking sites like Bebo argue that they have no money to distribute â?? their value is their membership. Well, last week Michael Birch realized the value of his membership. Iâ??m sure heâ??ll be rewarding those technicians and accountants who helped him achieve this success. Perhaps he should also consider the contribution of his artists.
The musicians who posted their work on Bebo.com are no different from investors in a start-up enterprise. Their investment is the content provided for free while the site has no liquid assets. Now that the business has reaped huge benefits, surely they deserve a dividend.
Whatâ??s at stake here is more than just the morality of the market. The huge social networking sites that seek to use music as free content are as much to blame for the malaise currently affecting the industry as the music lover who downloads songs for free. Both the corporations and the kids, it seems, want the use of our music without having to pay for it.
The claim that sites such as MySpace and Bebo are doing us a favor by promoting our work is disingenuous. Radio stations also promote our work, but they pay us a royalty that recognizes our contribution to their business. Why should that not apply to the Internet, too?
Technology is advancing far too quickly for the old safeguards of intellectual property rights to keep up, and while we wait for the technical fixes to emerge, those of us who want to explore the opportunities the Internet offers need to establish a set of ground rules that give us the power to decide how our music is exploited and by whom.
We need to do this not for the established artists who already have lawyers, managers and careers, but for the fledgling songwriters and musicians posting original material onto the Web tonight. The first legal agreement that they enter into as artists will occur when they click to accept the terms and conditions of the site that will host their music. Worryingly, no one is looking out for them.
If young musicians are to have a chance of enjoying a fruitful career, then we need to establish the principle of artistsâ?? rights throughout the Internet â?? and we need to do it now.
Billy Bragg is a songwriter and author.