Euro and Copa America 2021

[Julian, Bespoke SEXPERT]

Surely we are supposed to be yelling EEES CUHHMIN ‘OME now, yeah?

Got em.

[Thousand Made-Up Loves]

Congrats to Argentina. Di Maria's goal was incredible and assist on it was even better. Brazil obviously took a dump on the bed and didn't really try until the last 20 minutes. Tite will probably get fired over this.

[Thousand Made-Up Loves]

Totally agree about Eurocup vs Copa America and I will write about that at some point

Anyone that watches can see the difference

Having the tournaments at same time for the first time is really hammering the point home

Argentina hasn’t beat Brazil in Brazil in decades..Sidehatch and I paid to see the game- a meaningless pre 98 WC friendly - in some Latino restaurant in Arlington….Argentina hasn’t won a tournament since 1993 (two Olympic golds including one with Messi do not count)

At that point -1993- I was 22 and Argentina had won 86 World Cup, finished second in 90 WC, won 91 America Cup and 93 America Cup! I truly believed it was so easy…boy was I proven wrong and boy does losing suck

It’s been decades since Argentina even scored a goal in a tournament final and our team kind of sucks… my expectations are low

We have had very good teams in the past few decades but never put it together…this is not one of those teams but anything can happen

I just want it for Messi…dude is getting old…  but many great players never win anything…it is what it is… in any case I don’t get too excited about Copa America… I am about the World Cup… if somehow- highly unlikely- Argentina beats Brazil , even In pks, in the Maracana it would be epic… Brazil is just a better team and Argentina doesn’t beat Brazil often..it’s our nemesis along with Germany

One more thing: Messi has been busting serious ass…I mean he looks motivated and INTO it…he has had a hand  in every Argentina goal…like never before… he is doing it all..the leadership is off the charts… maybe it’s realizing his time is almost over but man he is killing it… there was a curt schilling bloody sock moment in the semis afterColombian dude flattened his ankle…Messi kept going ..in the past he faded a lot and seemed indifferent

Great analysis. Congrats to you and Argentina for the big win. You deserve it.

[Dejecty-hatch lııllı|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl]

umm, I'm starting to get concerned and may have to do a wellness check...

[Starsky]

I feel bad for England but I think Italy was a better team…

Still, England is perhaps making progress…semis in last WC and now finals

Bizarre putting a 19 year old to take the often critical 5th penalty kick

I get that Raheem Sterling is not comfortable taking pks but he really should have taken one

[sweetcell]

Bizarre putting a 19 year old to take the often critical 5th penalty kick

I get that Raheem Sterling is not comfortable taking pks but he really should have taken one

i'd replace "bizarre" with something much harsher - unfair, stupid, irresponsible.  PKs, especially in a tournament final, are the most stressful thing a player can be asked to do.  handling nerves on the big stages isn't something rookies generally do well at.  worse yet, in addition to losing this tournament they may have effed up Saka and the others kids who missed for some time - the mental image of those missed PKs could haunt them forever. 

[Starsky]

I really don’t know what happened…the whole thing seemed messed up


But they are men..professionals… at the end of the day sometimes inexperienced younger players feel less pressure… and he could have deferred

It’s not how I would have managed it…To me Gareth Southgate seems in over his head but he got them into the finals and lost in a penalty shootout so the English freak out seems exaggerated (The comments on the BBC website…good lord)

I see some players that are really good (Kane, Maguire, Shaw, Sterling etc) in England but they are still missing a few

[Cock Van Der Palm]

Scoring in the 1st 2 minutes and then laying back and playing defense until Italy tied it up was a bad strategy.  Also bringing in players in the last minutes for penalty kicks seems a bad strategy as well.  don't you want players who haven't been sitting for 100 minutes and have been in the flow of the game taking penalty kicks?

[Thousand Made-Up Loves]

Scoring in the 1st 2 minutes and then laying back and playing defense until Italy tied it up was a bad strategy.  Also bringing in players in the last minutes for penalty kicks seems a bad strategy as well.  don't you want players who haven't been sitting for 100 minutes and have been in the flow of the game taking penalty kicks?

I don't think I have ever seen a match where a team that took an early 1-0 lead didn't sit back and try to win playing, to steal an American football term, "prevent defense." Argentina did it against Colombia. Colombia did it against Brazil.

[vansmack]

Scoring in the 1st 2 minutes and then laying back and playing defense until Italy tied it up was a bad strategy.  Also bringing in players in the last minutes for penalty kicks seems a bad strategy as well.  don't you want players who haven't been sitting for 100 minutes and have been in the flow of the game taking penalty kicks?

So technically, Southgate let the English team have a go at getting a second goal for about the first  15-20 minutes, then inexplicably decided it was time to out Italian the Italians, which can't be done.  Had they gotten the second goal then, it would have been over.  Having failed to do that, he put the brakes on way too soon.

And Southgate REALLY failed to adjust to the Italian changes in the second half. The tying goal was inevitable at that point.

Regarding the time on the pitch for the eventual penalty takers, they were originally scheduled to come on with 5 minutes to go but for some reason the English bench didn't submit their numbers when the ball when out (I personally think they realized that if they make the subs then, they wouldn't have a right back, hence why for the last 30 seconds when they did come on, Rashford was playing right back).  The next ball that went out was an Italian goal kick (can't sub) and then a corned kick for the Italians about 4 minutes after the initial attempt to sub that they decided not to sub.  Impossible place for England who probably thought they would get more than just one opportunity in 5 minutes to make the subs, but the didn't.  Now they're forced to break the cardinal rule - never make subs while defending a corner, but they had no choice.  Got a bit lucky there, but yes, they had zero time to get in the flow of the game. 

So then, the perceived wisdom from practice is to have your last 3 takers be 23, 21 and 19 years old.  Sure Rashford and Sancho have great PK records (like 19/21 and 10/11) but I can't think of a single PK Saka has taken for Arsenal.  Inexcusably bad decision considering who else was available to be chosen, and using how things were going in practice to decide how they would work in a real life scenario in a game of that magnitude.

I feel a little for Southgate here as he had been making great decisions in the tournament, much to the chagrin of the English fanbase and press, but his defense first mentality worked and got them to a final for the first time in over 50 years.  But his decision making 20 minutes into the final exposed his weaknesses and lack of experience, and the Italians trounced.       

[Julian, Bespoke SEXPERT]

Scoring in the 1st 2 minutes and then laying back and playing defense until Italy tied it up was a bad strategy.  Also bringing in players in the last minutes for penalty kicks seems a bad strategy as well.  don't you want players who haven't been sitting for 100 minutes and have been in the flow of the game taking penalty kicks?

So technically, Southgate let the English team have a go at getting a second goal for about the first  15-20 minutes, then inexplicably decided it was time to out Italian the Italians, which can't be done.  Had they gotten the second goal then, it would have been over.  Having failed to do that, he put the brakes on way too soon.

And Southgate REALLY failed to adjust to the Italian changes in the second half. The tying goal was inevitable at that point.

Regarding the time on the pitch for the eventual penalty takers, they were originally scheduled to come on with 5 minutes to go but for some reason the English bench didn't submit their numbers when the ball when out (I personally think they realized that if they make the subs then, they wouldn't have a right back, hence why for the last 30 seconds when they did come on, Rashford was playing right back).  The next ball that went out was an Italian goal kick (can't sub) and then a corned kick for the Italians about 4 minutes after the initial attempt to sub that they decided not to sub.  Impossible place for England who probably thought they would get more than just one opportunity in 5 minutes to make the subs, but the didn't.  Now they're forced to break the cardinal rule - never make subs while defending a corner, but they had no choice.  Got a bit lucky there, but yes, they had zero time to get in the flow of the game. 

So then, the perceived wisdom from practice is to have your last 3 takers be 23, 21 and 19 years old.  Sure Rashford and Sancho have great PK records (like 19/21 and 10/11) but I can't think of a single PK Saka has taken for Arsenal.  Inexcusably bad decision considering who else was available to be chosen, and using how things were going in practice to decide how they would work in a real life scenario in a game of that magnitude.

I feel a little for Southgate here as he had been making great decisions in the tournament, much to the chagrin of the English fanbase and press, but his defense first mentality worked and got them to a final for the first time in over 50 years.  But his decision making 20 minutes into the final exposed his weaknesses and lack of experience, and the Italians trounced.     

So it didn't come home then, you're saying?

[vansmack]

So it didn't come home then, you're saying?

Funny thing about that song.   It came home more than you could imagine if people knew more than just that lyric of the song:

It's coming home
It's coming home
It's coming
Football's coming home (we'll go getting bad results)

Everyone seems to know the score
They've seen it all before
They just know
They're so sure
That England's gonna throw it away
Gonna blow it away
But I know they can play
'Cause I remember
Three Lions on a shirt
Jules Rimet still gleaming
Thirty years of hurt
Never stopped me dreaming
So many jokes, so many sneers
But all those oh-so-nears
Wear you down
Through the years
But I still see that tackle by Moore
And when Linekar scored
Bobby belting the ball
And Nobby Dancing

(What a save, Gordon Banks!
(Good old England, England that couldn't play football)
(England have got it in the bag)
I know that was then but it could be again

Three Lions on a shirt (it's coming home, it's coming)
Jules Rimet still gleaming (football's coming home, it's coming home)
Thirty years of hurt (it's coming home, it's coming)
Never stopped me dreaming (football's coming home)