Author Topic: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong  (Read 18718 times)

Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2004, 12:53:00 pm »
In the chic salons of Manhattan and the trendy bistros of Los Angeles they are saying they same thing. "How could Bush have won?" ponder the elitist vanguard of the left-wing status quo. "I don't know a single person who voted for him."
 
 On the networks -- 12 hours after the rest of us realized that John Kerry had fallen -- Dan Rather scribbles permutations on colored Post-It notes in an attempt to prove to himself that his chosen man could still take the day.
 
 Surfing about, I noted talking heads all agog over how they missed it. In the aftermath of the election, they behave with professorial demeanor, wondering how their certainty of a Democratic victory went up in flames.
 
 "What we don't realize is that there's a huge segment of the country that doesn't think like us," states one well-coifed anchor, his voice dripping with derision and condescension. "We can never understand the people who like their guns and their pick-up trucks and their Nascar."
 
 That comment, as much as anything else, explains why George Bush was re-elected with the largest percentage of the popular vote since 1968.
 
 The pretty TV man was stating that those such as he - the elites, the sophisticates -- can never comprehend the lowly mental horsepower of folk who shop at Wal-Mart, belong to a bowling league, sometimes attend church and still believe that the United States is far superior to the socialist enclaves of Europe.
 
 To the TV anchor, working stiffs and Joe Six-Packs are the "great unwashed." They don't read the New York Times, utter sly chuckles at the cartoons in the New Yorker or spend $400 bucks on a pair of shoes. They like a beer and a steak, read the funny pages on Sunday morning and think a day of chips and NFL is a dandy ol' time.
 
 Such being the case, they are not worthy of respect.
 
 The election of 2004 was not just a case of Bush versus Kerry. It was a contest of city versus country, blue collar versus white collar, arrogant elitist versus good ol' boy.
 
 It was class warfare in the deepest of trenches, but even after being whipped, dipped and hung out to dry, the high and mighty of the left STILL don't get it. They cannot comprehend how and why they were whomped by a bunch of hicks.
 
 Thus, allow me to enlighten. You see, the people whom America's Brahmins view as yokels and slack-jaws didn't just vote against Kerry the man. They voted against what Kerry stood for.
 
 They voted against arrogant, pseudo-intellectuals who try and mandate how the imbecilic members of the middle-class caste should live, act and think. They voted against pompous, urban know-it-alls who feel they have carte blanche to halt farming, ranching, logging and mining in an attempt to save an endangered species of toad.
 
 They voted against those who want to take their guns...and not just the ones they hunt with. They voted against the snobs, the egocentric, the self-righteous.
 
 They voted against the jerks...and they did it brilliantly.
 
 The "average" citizen of American voted against those whom John Kerry labeled the "heart and soul" of America. They voted against the traitorous pig Michael Moore and that Whoopity Goldberg woman. They voted against Bill Maher, Barbra Streisand, Alec Baldwin, Cameron Diaz, Robin Williams, Cher, Rosie O'Donnell and the whole damn cast of "Friends."
 
 They voted against "celebrities" who were rude and crude, those who profaned George Bush and his family with the most foul of commentary at each and every opportunity.
 
 The election wasn't just Bush versus Kerry. It was "Us versus Them."
 
 Oh...there were issues aplenty. And on each one the families from Flyover Country took a stance diametrically opposed to the upper crust.
 
 The latter view Europe as a Socialist utopia which all should strive to emulate. The former view it as a place with bad plumbing and body odor. The latter are enamored with, and a desire to appease, anyone who claims a lineage harboring at least one duke, baron or Third World, French-speaking exporter of bat guano. The former couldn't give a damn what Europe thinks, wouldn't trust Kofi Annan to wash their truck.
 
 Hell, they want to resign from the U.N., boot out the tenants and convert the real estate into a Bass Pro Shop.
 
 When it comes to war, the "normal" American believes in big bombs, not big words. They want country music and armor piercing bullets, whereas the intelligentsia wants to practice diplomacy, hum Kumbaya and surrender.
 
 The Nascar crowd intrinsically realizes Saddam was a terrorist, understands Iraq is part of the bigger war on terror. In case you forgot (and judging by the voting totals, many in the Northeast did just that) they'll remind you the radical Muslims attacked us...not vice versa.
 
 The residents of our two distinct Americas reside within the confines of different economies and social strata. It's not that Flyover Folk disagree with the values of the hoity-toity, it's more that they believe the pampered and feckless are bereft of values, their ethical compass spinning like a narcissistic top.
 
 They see the elites as merely paying lip service to that which is convenient and faddish, proving to the neighbors they sup heartily on the ideological flavor of the week, feeling nothing but a need to impress.
 
 The commoners? They are more traditional. Quite a lot are religious, but many are content to make a living, watch the tube and catch a long nap on Saturday. The "God, guns and guts" contingent is often poor but happy. The cocktail, Commies and Cadillac club is often rich and in therapy.
 
 And the Limousine Liberals STILL don't get it. They think the Bush victory is an anomaly, even though they've been humiliated twice in four years.
 
 They will lose again and again, firm in the resolve that good breeding always wins the day. The clay-eaters, rubes and mouth-breathers of "Flyover Country" will never surpass them, they think, for they lack class, culture and social contacts.
 
 As for the aforementioned po' white trash...they are laughing. They don't have much cash. They don't have health insurance. They don't take cruises. They don't have designer labels.
 
 All they've got is the Senate, the House, the Oval Office and a grin that spreads from ear to ear.

vansmack

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2004, 01:48:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 
 Someone needs to put George Mitchell in charge of the Democrats.  He had no problem admitting that the problem with his party is that they have turned into a bunch of pompous self-deluding fuckwads who can do little beyond mocking and belittling anyone who doesn't have their same worldview.  Those weren't his exact words, but pretty close.
I don't believe your analysis to be true either.  Just about every Democrat memeber of Congress and most of the left-leaning pundits have acknowledged that the party is in turmoil at the moment, having lost key strongholds in the Old South and the mid-west by failing to have a unified message on domestic issues that used to play well in those regions.  The party was beaten badly by Karl Rove, not just Kerry.
 
 Hell, Carville was saying exactly this before midnight on Tuesday.
27>34

hitman

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2004, 01:48:00 pm »
Thanks Doc...you have someone in agreement here..
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
  The election was overwhelmingly decided by frightened, petty, small-minded people who couldn't stand the idea that gays in states hundreds of miles away might decide to marry, and that this was more of a threat to the country than wars on false premises or soaring budget deficits.  Not much to be proud of there.
 
 
   <img src="http://www.alex.to/images/IQ2.jpg" alt=" - " />

hitman

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2004, 01:53:00 pm »
As Bill Maher said last week, succession probably wasn't such a bad thing.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
  The election was overwhelmingly decided by frightened, petty, small-minded people who couldn't stand the idea that gays in states hundreds of miles away might decide to marry, and that this was more of a threat to the country than wars on false premises or soaring budget deficits.  Not much to be proud of there.
 
statements like this is precisely why democrats cannot win in the south and midwest.  you continue to think that because you are, supposedly, intellectually superior to everyone else, you, and only you, must be right.  and the fact that the candidate that best represents what you think lost, again, drives you nuts.  denial just ain't a river in egypt. [/b]

Venerable Bede

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2004, 02:09:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by hitman:
  As Bill Maher said last week, succession probably wasn't such a bad thing.
 
i presume you mean secession.  big difference there buddy.
 
 and i'll keep my discussion on states rights and nullification theory to myself.   :)
OU812

sonickteam2

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2004, 02:33:00 pm »
REJECTED STATE MOTTOS
 
 
 ALABAMA:            Literacy ain't everything
                     Ya want fries with dat?
 
 ALASKA:             Come, freeze your butt off
 
 ARIZONA:            Winter home to 150,000 snowbirds
 
 ARKANSAS:           At least we're not Mississippi
 
 CALIFORNIA:         The Granola State
                     Nobody's actually from here
                     The really long state
 
 COLORADO:           Too wimpy to cross the mountains so we stopped here
                   
 
 CONNECTICUT:        Way too close to New York
 
 DELAWARE:           You'll need a map to find us
                     So close to Washington you can smell it
 
 FLORIDA:            The Gunshine State
                     Elephant Graveyard; where the old Republicans
                      go to die
                     Senior citizen discounts available
                     Come, enjoy the humidity
 
 GEORGIA:            Home of the Rednecks
                     Confederate money welcome
 
 HAWAII:             Sure, we've got Interstates... drive on over
                     Book 'em Danno
                     Tom Selik, Jack Lord, Don Ho - Paradise!
                     Come, get lai-ed
 
 IDAHO:              Ain't nothing here
                     We don't care if you spell potato with an "e"
 
 ILLINOIS:           Land of the voting dead
                     Gateway to Iowa
 
 INDIANA:            Home of David Letterman
 
 IOWA:               Just east of Omaha
                     It's easy to spell
 
 KANSAS:             Hayfever capital of the Midwest
                     Dole slept here
                     There's no place like home
                     Ya want flat, we got flat
 
 KENTUCKY:           Tobacco is a vegetable
                     We're all related
 
 LOUISIANA:          Swim the beautiful Bayou
                     Cancer Alley's just a name, and names will
                      never hurt you
 
 MAINE:              For Sale
                     You can spit on Canada from here
 
 MARYLAND:           If it weren't for Washington, you couldn't find us
 
 MASSACHUSETTS:      Home of the young girls from Nantucket,
                      also the home of Ted Kennedy, hmmmm...
 
 MICHIGAN:           Land of the free, home of the Buick
 
 MINNESOTA:          Not Sweden, but we try to act like it
                     Sure beats Canada
 
 MISSISSIPPI:        We're lucky we can spell it
                     Why would you want to come here?
 
 MISSOURI:           Gateway to Kansas
                     Here's mine, Show Me yours
                     We're better than Illinois
 
 MONTANA:            Land of the Big Sky, and very little else
                     We've got lots of 10'x10' shacks in the woods
                     It's where you're wanted.
                     At least our cows are sane.
 
 NEBRASKA:           More corn than Kansas
                     Go to Kansas, turn north
 
 NEVADA:             More weirdos than Alaska (warmer too)
                     2 words - Death Valley
                     3:5 you'll leave broke
                     We have our own nuclear testing site
 
 NEW HAMPSHIRE:      Like Old Hampshire, only newer
                     About as exciting as Vermont
 
 NEW JERSEY:         You have the right to remain silent,
                      You have the right to an attorney...
                     Tell 'em Guido sent ya
 
 NEW MEXICO:         Lizards make excellent pets
                     We have reservations
                     Alien Welcome Center - Roswell
 
 NEW YORK:           At least we're not New Jersey!
                     We're more than a big city; we're a state
                     Like we CARE about a motto
                     English spoken here; sometimes
 
 NORTH CAROLINA:     Five million people; Fifteen last names
                     We're bigger than South Carolina
 
 NORTH DAKOTA:       The OTHER South Dakota
 
 OHIO:               Don't judge us by Cleveland
                     Proud polluters of Lake Erie
                     We're easy to spell
 
 OKLAHOMA:           We're OK, you're NOT!
                     I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, Toto
 
 OREGON:             As pretty as California but not as weird
                     We're not named after a musical instrument
                     You can see the sunset from here
 
 PENNSYLVANIA:       Cook with coal
                     Free lub job with oil change
 
 RHODE ISLAND:       Size ain't everything
                     Nobody famous came from Rhode Island
 
 SOUTH CAROLINA:     Just south of North Carolina
 
 SOUTH DAKOTA:       Closer than North Dakota
 
 TENNESSEE:          The Educashun State
                     Thank goodness we've still got Elvis
                     A great fixer-upper
 
 TEXAS:              Si Hablo Ingles
                     See, EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas!
 
 UTAH:               Our Jesus is better than your Jesus
                     At least our sheep can't talk
 
 VERMONT:            Bet ya can't name 2 of our towns
 
 VIRGINIA:           Please don't confuse us with West Virginia!
 
 WASHINGTON:         We like our state, so STAY OUT!
 
 WEST VIRGINIA:      Where "family values" has a different meaning
 
 WISCONSIN:          Land of funny accents.
 
 WYOMING:            Where men are lonely and sheep are scared

ggw

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2004, 02:33:00 pm »
The exchange that I saw between Brokaw and Mitchell went well beyond simply saying that the Democrats were in disarray or that they have failed to serve old constituencies or even that they didn't share the "values" of many Americans.  Brokaw made the point that Democrats have actively alienated and been overwhelmingly hostile to many Americans.
 
 While Brokaw was making this point, Mitchell was unhesitatingly nodding in agreement.  When Brokaw went further and stated that the Democrats have actually engaged in a campaign of "mocking and belittling" Americans of "faith" Mitchell flatly said he was in agreement with Brokaw's point.  Only at the end of the interview did Mitchell state - as an afterthought - that "not all Democrats" are like this.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
 I don't believe your analysis to be true either.  Just about every Democrat memeber of Congress and most of the left-leaning pundits have acknowledged that the party is in turmoil at the moment, having lost key strongholds in the Old South and the mid-west by failing to have a unified message on domestic issues that used to play well in those regions.  The party was beaten badly by Karl Rove, not just Kerry.
 
 Hell, Carville was saying exactly this before midnight on Tuesday.

ggw

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2004, 02:42:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by hitman:
  Thanks Doc...you have someone in agreement here..
If you note at the bottom of that chart it says "This data has been published in the Economist."  The Economist did run the chart in 2000, (replace "Kerry" with "Gore") when it was originally circulated.  What the chart's author fails to note is that a week later The Economist ran a retraction in which they apologized for being taken in by a hoax and stated that the data had been thoroughly discredited.
 
 I hope you and Doctor Dope keep spewing your venom, as it allows the Republicans to keep winning -- even with a candidate who is bogged down in an unpopular war, who has lost over a million jobs and who can barely form a complete sentence.
 
 Just keep pointing and yelling at other people and telling them that they are the problem because they are stupid, lazy, selfish, illiterate, and blinded by faith.
 
 One day, you'll look in the mirror and see where the real problem lays.

sonickteam2

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2004, 02:47:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 
 Just keep pointing and yelling at other people and telling them that they are the problem because they are stupid, lazy, selfish, illiterate, and blinded by faith.
 
because Republicans always respect other people's opinions and values?

ggw

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2004, 02:50:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Just keep pointing and yelling at other people and telling them that they are the problem because they are stupid, lazy, selfish, illiterate, and blinded by faith.
 
because Republicans always respect other people's opinions and values? [/b]
2 wrongs = 1 right?

ratioci nation

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2004, 02:52:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 
 I hope you and Doctor Dope keep spewing your venom, as it allows the Republicans to keep winning -- even with a candidate who is bogged down in an unpopular war, who has lost over a million jobs and who can barely form a complete sentence.
 
 Just keep pointing and yelling at other people and telling them that they are the problem because they are stupid, lazy, selfish, illiterate, and blinded by faith.
 
 One day, you'll look in the mirror and see where the real problem lays.
While I mostly agree with you here, I think people complaining about people blinded by faith is fair game.  But Democrats themselves are to blame for the loss.  The people blinded by faith would not have been a problem if Democrats could find a message that appealed to the people who voted for Bush and were not blinded by faith.  The fact remains that no matter how much of a mandate Bush claims he has, the race was extremely close, and could have been won by the Democrats with some changes to their message.

sonickteam2

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2004, 02:53:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  2 wrongs = 1 right?
thats not what i was saying.....what i was saying was along the lines of the pot calling the kettle black.
 
   i think they're both stupid.  but people call me socialist so whatever.
 
  (see, i used they're right that time)

Barcelona

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2004, 02:57:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by hitman:
  Thanks Doc...you have someone in agreement here..
 
   
Quote
Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
  The election was overwhelmingly decided by frightened, petty, small-minded people who couldn't stand the idea that gays in states hundreds of miles away might decide to marry, and that this was more of a threat to the country than wars on false premises or soaring budget deficits.  Not much to be proud of there.
 
 
    <img src="http://www.alex.to/images/IQ2.jpg" alt=" - " />
[/b]
The worst thing Democrats could now say is that Republicans won because in most states they carried, average IQs are lower than in the remaining states. This is stupid and won't help at all, actually it might backfire. There is nothing in politics I like less than the GOP (actually tied with the Popular Party in Spain and ARENA in El Salvador), but rather than blaming the loss to the low IQs in the south and midwest, democrats should start looking for a way of re-gaining some of those states in 2006, let's stop crying and let's look for good arguments. It shouldn't be that difficult to get states like New Mexico, Iowa, Missouri, Ohio, or Arkansas, the difference wasn't that huge, there sure are lots of moderate republicans left there who could swing to the Democratic party.

bellenseb

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2004, 03:04:00 pm »
Bob Herbert asks a great question...with all this "values" nonsense, what about the ignorance issue? In other words, is wishing that people voted with actual facts in mind, inherently elitist?
 
 Voting Without the Facts
 By BOB HERBERT
 
 Published: November 8, 2004
 
 
 The so-called values issue, at least as it's being popularly tossed around, is overrated.
 
 Last week's election was extremely close and a modest shift in any number of factors might have changed the outcome. If the weather had been better in Ohio. ...If the wait to get into the voting booth hadn't been so ungodly long in certain Democratic precincts. ... Or maybe if those younger voters had actually voted. ...
 
 I think a case could be made that ignorance played at least as big a role in the election's outcome as values. A recent survey by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland found that nearly 70 percent of President Bush's supporters believe the U.S. has come up with "clear evidence" that Saddam Hussein was working closely with Al Qaeda. A third of the president's supporters believe weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq. And more than a third believe that a substantial majority of world opinion supported the U.S.-led invasion.
 
 This is scary. How do you make a rational political pitch to people who have put that part of their brain on hold? No wonder Bush won.
 
 The survey, and an accompanying report, showed that there's a fair amount of cluelessness in the ranks of the values crowd. The report said, "It is clear that supporters of the president are more likely to have misperceptions than those who oppose him."
 
 I haven't heard any of the postelection commentators talk about ignorance and its effect on the outcome. It's all values, all the time. Traumatized Democrats are wringing their hands and trying to figure out how to appeal to voters who have arrogantly claimed the moral high ground and can't stop babbling about their self-proclaimed superiority. Potential candidates are boning up on new prayers and purchasing time-shares in front-row-center pews.
 
 A more practical approach might be for Democrats to add teach-ins to their outreach efforts. Anything that shrinks the ranks of the clueless would be helpful.
 
 If you don't think this values thing has gotten out of control, consider the lead paragraph of an op-ed article that ran in The LA. Times on Friday. It was written by Frank Pastore, a former major league pitcher who is now a host on the Christian talk-radio station KKLA.
 
 "Christians, in politics as in evangelism," said Mr. Pastore, "are not against people or the world. But we are against false ideas that hold good people captive. On Tuesday, this nation rejected liberalism, primarily because liberalism has been taken captive by the left. Since 1968, the left has taken millions captive, and we must help those Democrats who truly want to be free to actually break free of this evil ideology."
 
 Mr. Pastore goes on to exhort Christian conservatives to reject any and all voices that might urge them "to compromise with the vanquished." How's that for values?
 
 In The New York Times on Thursday, Richard Viguerie, the dean of conservative direct mail, declared, "Now comes the revolution." He said, "Liberals, many in the media and inside the Republican Party, are urging the president to 'unite' the country by discarding the allies that earned him another four years."
 
 Mr. Viguerie, it is clear, will stand four-square against any such dangerous moves toward reconciliation.
 
 You have to be careful when you toss the word values around. All values are not created equal. Some Democrats are casting covetous eyes on voters whose values, in many cases, are frankly repellent. Does it make sense for the progressive elements in our society to undermine their own deeply held beliefs in tolerance, fairness and justice in an effort to embrace those who deliberately seek to divide?
 
 What the Democratic Party needs above all is a clear message and a bold and compelling candidate. The message has to convince Americans that they would be better off following a progressive Democratic vision of the future. The candidate has to be a person of integrity capable of earning the respect and the affection of the American people.
 
 This is doable. Al Gore and John Kerry were less than sparkling candidates, and both came within a hair of defeating Mr. Bush.
 
 What the Democrats don't need is a candidate who is willing to shape his or her values to fit the pundits' probably incorrect analysis of the last election. Values that pivot on a dime were not really values to begin with.

godsshoeshine

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Re: Sometimes It's Nice To Be Wrong
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2004, 03:08:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
  The election was overwhelmingly decided by frightened, petty, small-minded people who couldn't stand the idea that gays in states hundreds of miles away might decide to marry, and that this was more of a threat to the country than wars on false premises or soaring budget deficits.  Not much to be proud of there.
 
statements like this is precisely why democrats cannot win in the south and midwest.  you continue to think that because you are, supposedly, intellectually superior to everyone else, you, and only you, must be right.  and the fact that the candidate that best represents what you think lost, again, drives you nuts.  denial just ain't a river in egypt. [/b]
i'd argue that the notion that the south and certain parts of the midwest (suddenly wisconsin isn't the midwest?) are somehow morally superior to the west coast and northeasterners is just as absurd. the gop ran a superior campaign, framing a couple of issues as a moral the basis for reelection. the democrats did poorly in this regard, they should have made (say) healthcare a moral issue. but they didn't the republicans are supperior in ruthless campaigning and that was that. to further point fingers and say things like 'you people think you're so superior' is going to further divide this country. you have to admit the geographic divisions cannot be good for the future of the country.
o/\o