And it's over...

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 
 I guess my overall point is that hockey can't survive as a dual-nation sport without a strong TV deal in the US.  And contracting 6 US teams in new markets (some of the largest TV markets in America) does not help your US TV deal.

so you wanna contract all of the Canadian teams? yeah, that will work

[sonickteam2]

honestly, if its all just about cities with money and TV deals...just give the cup to Canada and let them have thier own hockey league.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  so you wanna contract all of the Canadian teams? yeah, that will work

I didn't say that and I think it's the worst possible idea.  I'm not even sure how you came to that conclusion.
 
 But for the tradition rich folks in Canada who want to go back to the old way hockey used to be done, they're not thinking clearly.  There's more to revenue then ticket sales - a lot more.  And you can't just contract teams because of poor ticket sales.  Contraction is a quick fix - and if you want a quick fix, why not dump the teams that are already BQ?   That was my point.
 
 The truth is, Hockey needs to have teams in largly populated areas in the US for a larger TV deal - how do you think the original ABC/ESPN kept this lockout from happening years ago?  Expansion.  But it was inevitable.  Until a deal is in place where salaries are capped and revenue is shared, this will happen to hockey everytime the CBA is up.
 
 Hockey has all the love in Canada, but all the money in the US.  That's why there are no NFL teams in Canada.  And only one baseball team left in Canada.  And because I don't watch the NBA until May, I'm not sure how many NBA teams are left in Canada, but at last count it was one.  When all the love and all the money is in the US, Canadian franchises can't compete.  It's your love that keeps hockey competitive in a dual country league.  It may also be your downfall.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  honestly, if its all just about cities with money and TV deals...just give the cup to Canada and let them have thier own hockey league.

How many players would play in Canada if they could be paid twice as much to play in the US?
 
 The NHL needs a salary cap and revenue sharing.  It's the only fix to save the league on a permanent basis.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 How many players would play in Canada if they could be paid twice as much to play in the US?
 

where, in the AHL. do they even have a TV deal with ANYONE?

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 How many players would play in Canada if they could be paid twice as much to play in the US?
 

and i really think Ottawa's being bankrupt had more to do with shitty ownership than anything else.  i dont know about Buffalo.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  where, in the AHL. do they even have a TV deal with ANYONE?

Do you think that if the NHL were to split and the cup be given to Canada as you suggested, that the US franchises would disband?  They would create their own Professional Hockey League.  And with more revenue, be able to pay their players a lot more than Canada.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  where, in the AHL. do they even have a TV deal with ANYONE?

Do you think that if the NHL were to split and the cup be given to Canada as you suggested, that the US franchises would disband?  They would create their own Professional Hockey League.  And with more revenue, be able to pay their players a lot more than Canada. [/b]

I didnt say they would, i said they should.  and a "new" hockey league with only american teams wouldnt work. not paying millions of dollars anyway.  without tradition, hockey is nothing in American......seriously.

Originally posted by xcanuck:
  For both the hockey fans out there...it's all over for this year.
 
  http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpNWZic251BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-nhllockout&prov=ap&type=lgns
 
 I place the blame for this whole debacle squarely on Bettman's shoulders. His lack of leadership lead to a situation where rampant expansion and player salaries ran amok and resulted in the season cancellation. I only hope that this all results in league contraction (even if it means losing the Caps) so that we can have a viable product in a couple of years.
 
 The man wouldn't know a hockey puck if it hit him. Too bad that 12 yr old girl in Columbus got hit....it should have been Bettman. He should just go back to the NBA where he belongs.
 
 
 I guess I'll just up to play on a THIRD team for the summer. I've got to get my fix somehow.....

<img src="http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/09/01/bhagwan_shree_rajnesh_narrowweb__200x230.jpg" alt=" - " />
 And who is giving a rat's posterior, I am wondering?

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  without tradition, hockey is nothing in American......seriously.

I think you mean without Canadian Players, an American Pro Hockey League would be nothing, because America doesn't need your tradition.   How long are you going to hold on to this "tradition"?
 
 The first Pro Hockey League was in the US, not Canada.
 
 Only two Canadian teams have won a Stanley Cup in the last 15 years.
 
 Only four teams have played for one.
 
 There are only, what 6 Canadian Teams left, out of 30 teams total?  And yet the NHL continued until this year.  
 
 Yes, the majority of the hockey players in the NHL are Canadian, but your 6 pro teams can't keep them all and when the US teams pay the players more, which they inevitably will, it will take an act of the Canadian Government to keep the Canadian hockey players from making more money in the US.  
 
 I can't even believe your suggesting this.

[godsshoeshine]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 Why not contract Pittsburgh?  How many times are the people of Pittsburgh going to vote down a new arena?  They were so broke they had to give part of the team to their best player because they coudln't pay him.  And things aren't getting better.

i am a pixburgher born and raised, i've been to 100 pens games, the stanley cup years were during my high school days, and i literally went to pens games in the womb, and i can tell you if they contract 6 teams, there is a 20% chance that pittsburgh WON'T be one of them. the city is absolutely broke, they laid off a thousand city employees last year, including over a hundred cops. the last ditch effort is to get a gambling licence for the pens so they can have slots which is a short term solution at best. so yeah, i'm thinking no pens ever again. rot in hell nhl, go wiz

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 
 I can't even believe your suggesting this.

nice set of stats there smackie.  and yes, i am suggesting this. i dare you clowns to try to have hockey without Canadian teams.
 
    what will you win at the end of the year? a giant hockey puck? a new cadillac?  maybe a trophy with some flags on it?  haha, how nice.
 
    it wont work. the cup is Canadian and not enough hockey fans here will watch a bunch of guys skating for something else.  you do watch hockey right?

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 
 The first Pro Hockey League was in the US, not Canada.
 

so what? Canada had hockey leagues long before America did.  just cause they didnt get paid means they dont count?

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  i dare you clowns to try to have hockey without Canadian teams.  

I double dog-dare you to have a Canadian only hockey league without American teams and try to compete with an American Pro Hockey League.
 
 And yes, I watch hockey.  And yes, Bettman is to blame.  But I maintain that to contract American teams based on ticket sales and performance will do nothing to save hockey in Canada or America.
 
 The players have to make less (salary cap) and the owners in bigger markets have to make less (revenue sharing) and hockey needs to increase its fan base.  America is the only place to do that.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  i dare you clowns to try to have hockey without Canadian teams.  

I double dog-dare you to have a Canadian only hockey league without American teams and try to compete with an American Pro Hockey League.
 
 And yes, I watch hockey.  And yes, Bettman is to blame.  But I maintain that to contract American teams based on ticket sales and performance will do nothing to save hockey in Canada or America.
 
 The players have to make less (salary cap) and the owners in bigger markets have to make less (revenue sharing) and hockey needs to increase its fan base.  America is the only place to do that. [/b]

ok, ok. yes, we need a salary cap.  and while i dont thin contraction is a must for fixing the league, but i sure would like it.  and i think thats really how this conversation started, i dont know that any of us (me and xcanuck) were really arguing which teams "deserved" to be ousted, more our personal preferences.  but i can see how a lawyer may misinterpret.  
 
   nice talking with you again though, smackie!
 at least baseballs 45 days away!