Author Topic: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off  (Read 6006 times)

bearman🐻

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2006, 01:07:00 pm »
I like the Sex Pistols' music as well. But the problem is that they also turned punk rock into a different kind of monster, and a lot of people who started punk (see the 'zine "Punk") were pretty stunned at what it turned into. In NYC, the CBGB's scene was more about the music than anything. You had bands as diverse as the Ramones, Television, Blondie, the Talking Heads, Richard Hell, etc. Malcolm Mclaren turned punk into a fashion thing, and the Sex Pistols were his vehicle. Then it became a media circus. What ended up happening is that punk as a musical force didn't seem viable, record labels didn't want to invest in punk bands after the Pistols, because if punk was all about imploding, then why invest time, money and energy in it? That's the issue I have with the Pistols. Again, I love their music, and yes, a lot of great bands went to see them and were influenced by how easy it was to do...but it was the Clash and the Pistols who saw the Ramones in July 1976, and in the end English punk turned the whole thing into a stereotype of spitting on bands, wearing mohawks, piercing cheeks with safety pins, etc. I think many bands were forced to go New Wave to keep an audience (see Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Damned, Pete Shelley of the Buzzcocks, etc.)

Arlette

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2006, 10:23:00 pm »
I hear what everyone is saying about how different they were and how they brought to new life to a dormant music scene, and I love reading the stories about what the Sex Pistols meant to people as they were discovering music, especially having been able to see them live, that must have been awesome.  
 
 How about this concillatory statement:
 
 "The Pistols were contrived and calculated (and manufactured) but that didn't make their music any less real or passionate." (I cribbed that from another board where the same discussion is taking place.)
 
 I don't like that they became the standard bearer for "punk"; their "schtick" took away from the music, but yea, I have to agree that they had some great music.

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2006, 11:30:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by chancegardener:
 "God Save the Queen" coffee mug
That really sums it up.

kosmo vinyl

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2006, 09:31:00 am »
i also think that there were a number of socioeconomic issues that factored into how the UK punk scene developed.  still don't understand how the sex pistols turned punk into a joke.  the intial  media circus was more a feeding frenzy over the naughty words the band was goaded into saying by the tv show interviewer.  then there was the publicity stunt following the release of "God Save The Queen", something thier record company at the time could have easily refused to release.
 
 new wave became a catch all phrase for a wide variety of bands that began coming out in the late 70's early 80's. it included ska, synthpop, pub rock, rockabilly, etc.  in fact i recall reading that the term was actually coined for Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.  i don't really see bands turning new wave because of the way UK punks began behaving.  and it's not like the major labels were signing punk bands left and right anyways, sex pistols or not.
T.Rex

bearman🐻

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2006, 10:35:00 am »
The Sex Pistols turned punk into a joke thanks to:
 
 a) being fashion victims, something that was picked up on very fast and taken to extremes by English punks
 b) imploding at a time when they were their biggest
 c) firing their one true musician (Glenn Matlock) and hiring a total dolt (Sid Vicious)
 d) taking the focus away from their music and putting it on controversy and scandal (one could thank Malcolm Mclaren for almost all of the above)
 
 England's Dreaming, Please Kill Me and Johnny Rotten's book pretty well cover all of this.
 
 Kosmo, it had nothing to do with how bands were behaving. It's a business, and when labels saw what happened to the Pistols, it became clear that a watered down version of punk would be a safer bet. But I don't think that's a secret. It's pretty obvious that the Ramones would never be huge, but the Clash (who were dabbling in a lot of other musical influences) could. It was a catch 22 for punk bands too...the minute that they wanted to evolve and grow musically, that's when they lost their punk cred. One can only do so much with 3 chords.

Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2006, 10:39:00 am »
Oh, come on. Punk was always a joke.

Herr Professor Doktor Doom

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2006, 10:52:00 am »
Rhett's got a point...  
 
 First time I heard the Pistols:  circa 1979, in a junior high school that was Stoner Central, the king of the stoners, a guy named Paul Carbone, brought "Never Mind the Bollocks" into study hall, and we listened to it at our desks on a turntable from the a/v room while the teacher sat at his desk, boredly watching us.  Good stuff.
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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2006, 11:03:00 am »
I do?
 
 Honestly, the first time I heard "punk" was in 1985, my freshman year of college. One of my dormmates bought "We Are the Meatmen and You Suck" as a joke. And man, that was some of the funniest shit I had ever heard. Even funnier than an Eddie Murphy cassette.

bearman🐻

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2006, 11:16:00 am »
The Ramones had a sense of humor...I wouldn't call them a joke though. Same thing with the Damned.

Herr Professor Doktor Doom

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2006, 11:22:00 am »
The Meatmen were hilarious, and a great antidote to the puritanistic straight-edge movement that had gotten completely out of hand in DC around that time...
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ggw

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2006, 11:34:00 am »
Wasn't humor just part of the punk reaction to the mannerist arena rock of the late-70's?

Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2006, 11:41:00 am »
Is anyone on this board old enough to answer this question? Where's Mankie?
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Wasn't humor just part of the punk reaction to the mannerist arena rock of the late-70's?

kosmo vinyl

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2006, 01:05:00 pm »
First off I'm not buying the fashion victim bit, as music and fashion have often been the passion in the UK. Be it Mods, Rockers, Glam, Ska, Punk, New Wave, Goth, Britpop.  People like to identify with their favorite bands, in dress and attitude. In this case Malcolm McClaren just tried to set the style ahead at the outset, by borrowing heavily from the NY scene.
 
 Bands crash and burn all the time early in their careers, at least they walked away instead of pulling a lengthy absence like the Stone Roses.
 
 The Clash fired a drummer because he was supposedly "conservative" and they did in this case replaced with him a decent musician.
 
 The bigger question was Glen fired or did he quit because he was tired of Johnny's attitude.  There is suggestion he actually was hired to record tracks even after being fired. And bring in Sid wasn't the smoothest move artistically it was done none the less with the assumption he might actually be able to learn how to play the bass.  Paul McCartney had Linda in his band for years, with little evidence of music talent on her part.
T.Rex

ggw

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Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2006, 12:29:00 pm »
March 14, 2006
 At a Hall of Fame Induction, Chords, and a Little Discord
 
 By KELEFA SANNEH
 Last night, for the 21st year in a row, a roomful of rock 'n' roll movers and shakers morphed into rock 'n' roll sitters and eaters. They gathered at the Grand Ballroom at the Waldorf-Astoria, to induct a new group of honorees into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The building is in Cleveland, but the ceremony organizers know that their target demographic prefers the Coasts.
 
 This year's inductees are Blondie, the Sex Pistols, Black Sabbath, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Miles Davis, along with the record executives Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss. The ceremony is to be shown on VH1 at 9 p.m. on next Tuesday.
 
 The night began with a raucous tribute to Wilson Pickett (class of 1991), starring Solomon Burke (class of 2001). Mr. Pickett died in January. Even more raucous was Metallica's musical tribute to Black Sabbath; it followed a heartfelt introduction during which Metallica's lead singer, James Hetfield, fought back tears.
 
 Shirley Manson, lead singer of Garbage, introduced Blondie, calling the group "one of the coolest, most glamorous, most stylish bands in the history of rock 'n' roll." Blondie's guitarist Chris Stein said Ms. Manson's introduction "put dents in my cynicism."
 
 But it wasn't all sweet. When Frank Infante, who was not a founding member of Blondie, asked its lead singer, Debbie Harry, if he could play with the group, she kissed him sweetly and said, "Can't you see my band is up there?" He replied: "Your band? I thought Blondie was being inducted." He did not perform.
 
 Induction into the Hall of Fame is not accompanied by a generous cash stipend. But perhaps the trustees cut a fat check to John Lydon, who was known as Johnny Rotten in the late 1970's when he was the singer for the influential punk band the Sex Pistols.
 
 If he hasn't been given a check, Mr. Lydon deserves one: for the past few weeks, he has been the best publicist the hall could ask for. The band members said they would not be attending, explaining the decision with a splenetic handwritten note posted on a Sex Pistols Web site. Jann S. Wenner, founder of Rolling Stone and vice chairman of the hall (and 2004 inductee), read the note, to laughter and applause.
 
 It says, in part: "Your anonymous as judges, but your still music industry people. Were not coming. Your not paying attention." You won't see the full version in this newspaper, and not just because of all the mangled contractions and misspellings. Mr. Lydon also told the late-night television host Jimmy Kimmel, "This is an institution â?? I don't know who they are, I don't care." But he apparently knows a little, because he continued, "They have rejected our nomination for three years running, and now they want a piece of us."
 
 The hall began its yearly induction ceremony in 1986, and got many of the biggest, most obvious names out of the way pretty quickly. (The first year's haul included Ray Charles, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, James Brown, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis and Buddy Holly; by decade's end, the Beatles, the Beach Boys, the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan and Stevie Wonder had joined them.)
 
 And so these days, what drama there is surrounding the ceremony concerns the hall's quarter-century rule. According to its Web site, "Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record." Stars can calculate the gap between the year they became eligible and the year they were inducted, then figure out how long they have been made to wait.
 
 By this measure, Mr. Lydon does not have much to complain about. The Sex Pistols released their first and only proper album, "Never Mind the Bollocks," in 1977, which means the band has actually had a shorter waiting period than any of its fellow inductees. Shorter, certainly, than Miles Davis, who released his first album as a band leader about a half-century ago. (He died in 1991.)
 
 He was remembered by Herbie Hancock, another jazz musician who may one day find himself an inductee. And Mr. Hancock did double duty, leading a band through a Miles Davis medley.
 
 The notion of a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame used to inspire skepticism, but these days the ceremony hardly seems like an anomaly: it is a star-driven, ready-for-VH1 awards ceremony in an era full of them.
 
 Still, there is something amusing about watching rock 'n' roll being celebrated during dinner at a fancy hotel. With all those tables and all that catered food and all those tuxedos, the ceremony almost seemed like a wedding. But there was one small but telling difference. A wedding has a dance floor.

Re: Sex Pistols tell Hall of Fame to Bugger Off
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2006, 01:55:00 pm »
Did we go to the same school?
 
 I had a stoner friend named Paul Carbone. Committed suicide in 1979, age 12.
 
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by HERR PROFESSOR DOKTOR DOOM:
  Rhett's got a point...  
 
 First time I heard the Pistols:  circa 1979, in a junior high school that was Stoner Central, the king of the stoners, a guy named Paul Carbone, brought "Never Mind the Bollocks" into study hall, and we listened to it at our desks on a turntable from the a/v room while the teacher sat at his desk, boredly watching us.  Good stuff.