Author Topic: gay marriage  (Read 30026 times)

Bags

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2004, 06:39:00 pm »
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
     
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Originally posted by Bags:
  However, I don't think those things are what this debate is *really* about.  
 
divorce is a red herring.  but marriage is, initially, a religious institution, and secondly, a civil institution.[/b]
Precisely, so the U.S. government has NO business legislating on it, per the Constitution itself.  
 
   
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this is a state matter that the federal government should not step into.  however, bush, as leader of the country, should be allowed to voice his opinion on the matter.  even kerry and edwards don't support gay marriage.  his support for a constitutional amendment though is nonsense.  people throw out this constitutional amendment thing every so often to show how much they really support something, but everyone knows that it won't happen. . ever.
I agree that it should be a state matter.  I don't give a fly about gay marriages, but do give a fly about a constitutional amendment *banning* them.  Saying it won't happen does not alleviate G.W. of the responsibility of proposing it as a process.  And for this reason I don't believe divorce is a red herring -- either marriage is an immovable, legislatable institution that must be honored or it's not.  
 
 Yes, you can legally break a contract or break a marriage.  I'm not saying it's *illegal* for people to divorce, but if you're going to support and state that marriage is sacrosanct, mean it.
 
 And don't forget the race stuff...and the property stuff, since we're relying on two centuries of history.  You know, because marriage doesn't evolve at all.

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2004, 11:10:00 pm »
I think Kurt Vonnegut's suggestion from his novel SLAPSTICK is a much better proposal than either gay marriage or constitutional ammendments.
 
  all Americans were issued new middle names consisting of "...a noun, the name of a flower or fruit or nut or vegetable or legume, or a bird or reptile or a fish, or mollusk, or a gem, or a mineral or a chemical element--connected by a hypen to a number between one and twenty." People with the same middle name--both noun and number--became siblings; those who shared only the noun became cousins. The names were randomly assigned, so that everyone's family instantly expanded to include ten thousand new siblings and one-hundred and ninety-thousand new cousins, scattered across the country. Under the new system, everyone "belonged" somewhere, everyone was part of a big family. People would be "Lonesome No More!".
 
 Dupek "Daffodil Eleven" Chopra

Bags

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2004, 11:42:00 pm »
Savage Love
 by Dan Savage
 February 25 - March 2, 2004
 The Village Voice
 
 Can you explain gay marriage? I lost a friend who's a lesbian for saying that marriage is meaningless. It seems to me that the point of gay marriage is to win official recognition that homos aren't second-class citizensâ??it would amount to a state-sanctioned "Gays are OK!" message. I've got no problem with gay marriage, but it seems like there are more pressing issues, like the shitty economy and the war, and an awful lot of energy is being spent trying to win something that doesn't matter except as a symbol. So what's the big deal? Admittedly I'm a straight guy, Dan, but does it really matter all that much? â??Tortured Acronym
 
 Sure, I can explain gay marriage. Some gay and lesbian couples would like to marry for the same reasons many straight couples would like to marry or have already married: They're in love, they've made a commitment to each other, and they want the rights, privileges, and responsibilities (RPRs) that come with legal marriage. While some gays and lesbians are after the "Gays are OK!" message (no one has ever gone broke overestimating the insecurities of gays and lesbians), most gay couples don't just want the symbolism of marriage, TA, but those RPRsâ??and guess what? Both matter. "Marriage brings extremely important tangible and intangible protections," said Evan Wolfson, executive director of Freedom to Marry, the organization leading the charge on gay marriage. "Tangible or intangible, neither is symbolic. To have clarity and security, to have people know who you are in relation to the primary person that you're building your life with, is no mere symbol. And gay people have the same need for that security, clarity, and by the way, equality, as non-gay people." As for your lesbian ex-friend, can't you see how listening to a straight guy dismiss gay marriage as trivial might infuriate a lesbian? Lesbians are famously easy to infuriate (there, I just did it myself), but being told by someone who can get married that gay marriage is a silly distraction from the economy or the war would anger the mellowest homo. Also, where do you get off assuming that gays and lesbians aren't active on other issues? Many of the same folks lining up to get married in San Francisco last week were folks who, without a doubt, marched against the war in Iraq and made donations to Howard Dean (R.I.P.). For a taste of why so many gays and lesbians give a shit about marriage, check out  www.dearmary.com, a website devoted to shaming Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter. Before her father took over the world, Mary Cheney was a professional lesbian and an advocate for gay rights. Now, as her own father stumps for an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would do lasting harm to his own daughter and all other American gays and lesbians, Mary Cheney is AWOL. At dearmary.com you'll find heart-wrenching letters that show why marriage rights for gays and lesbians are important. And anyone who's interested in sending Mary "My Heart Belongs to Daddy" Cheney a letter can do so via the website.

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2004, 12:16:00 am »
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Originally posted by Bags:
 www.dearmary.com
Link adjustment <img src="http://pages.prodigy.net/bestsmileys1/signs/17.gif" alt=" - " />

Bags

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2004, 10:34:00 am »
Thanks, Dupek -- I have problems with formatting from my iMac at home, so I just left it as was in the article...odd.

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2004, 10:40:00 am »
<img src="http://www.priceless420.com/Pr022304sexbed.jpg" alt=" - " />
  <img src="http://pages.prodigy.net/hauxfan/Signs/Group_7/30.gif" alt=" - " />

mankie

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2004, 11:19:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Bags:
  Savage Love
 by Dan Savage
 February 25 - March 2, 2004
 The Village Voice
 
 Can you explain gay marriage? I lost a friend who's a lesbian for saying that marriage is meaningless. It seems to me that the point of gay marriage is to win official recognition that homos aren't second-class citizensâ??it would amount to a state-sanctioned "Gays are OK!" message. I've got no problem with gay marriage, but it seems like there are more pressing issues, like the shitty economy and the war, and an awful lot of energy is being spent trying to win something that doesn't matter except as a symbol. So what's the big deal? Admittedly I'm a straight guy, Dan, but does it really matter all that much? â??Tortured Acronym
 
 
I thought it was so they could have children and raise a family...   ;)
 
 Anyway, what's the big deal about gay marraige...Rhett's gay and he's been married for a while now.

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2004, 12:48:00 pm »
42

ggw

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2004, 01:41:00 pm »
We should have seen it coming:
 
 Massachusetts Supreme Court Orders All Citizens to Gay-Marry
 
 BOSTONâ??Justices of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled 5-2 Monday in favor of full, equal, and mandatory gay marriages for all citizens. The order nullifies all pre-existing heterosexual marriages and lays the groundwork for the 2.4 million compulsory same-sex marriages that will take place in the state by May 15.
   
 "As we are all aware, it's simply not possible for gay marriage and heterosexual marriage to co-exist," Massachusetts Chief Justice Margaret H. Marshall said. "Our ruling in November was just the first step toward creating an all-gay Massachusetts."
 
 Marshall added: "Since the allowance of gay marriage undermines heterosexual unions, we decided to work a few steps ahead and strike down opposite-sex unions altogether."
 
 Marshall said the court's action will put a swift end to the mounting debate.
 
 "Instead of spending months or even years volleying this thing back and forth, we thought we might as well just cut to the eventual outcome of our decision to allow gay marriages," Marshall said. "Clearly, this is where this all was headed anyway."
 
 The justices then congratulated the state's 4.8 million marriage-age residents on their legally mandated engagements.
 
 The court issued the surprise order in response to a query from the Massachusetts Senate over whether Vermont-style civil unions, which convey the state-sanctioned benefits of marriage but not the title, are constitutional.
 
 "If the history of our nation has demonstrated anything, it's that separate is never equal," Marshall said. "Therefore, any measure short of dismantling conventional matrimony and mandating the immediate homosexual marriage of all residents of Massachusetts would dishonor same-sex unions. I'm confident that this measure will be seen by all right-thinking people as the only solution to our state's, and indeed America's, ongoing marriage controversy."
 
 Marshall then announced her engagement to Holyoke kindergarten teacher Betsy Peterson, a pairing that had been randomly generated by computers in the census office earlier that day.
 
 Those who don't choose to marry in private will be married in concurrent mass ceremonies at Fenway Park, Gillette Stadium, and the Boston Convention and Exposition Center. Any citizen who is not gay-married or is still in an illegal heterosexual relationship after that date will be arrested and tried for non-support.
 
 Hundreds of confused but vocal protesters lined the street outside the statehouse Monday night, waving both American and rainbow flags. Their chants, which broke out in pockets up and down the street, included, "Hey hey, ho ho, homophobia's got to go, but frankly, this is fucked up" and "Adam and Eve or Adam and Steve, but not Adam and Some Random Guy." Others held signs that read, "On Second Thought, Boston Christians Are Willing To Consider A Compromise."
 
 According to police reports, demonstrators were vocal but orderly.
 
 "The unholy union of people of the same gender destroys the only type of romantic love sanctioned by Our Lord in Heaven: the love between a man and a woman," 54-year-old protester Rose Shoults said. "Me and my new partner Helene are going to fry in hell."
 
 The much-anticipated order sets the stage for Massachusetts' upcoming constitutional convention, where the state legislature will consider an amendment to legally define marriage as a union between two members of the same gender. Without the order, Rep. Michael Festa said the vote, and his personally dreaded wedding to House Speaker and longtime political opponent Thomas Finneran, would be delayed.
 
 "This is a victory, not only for our state, but for America," Festa said. "Simply allowing consenting gay adults the same rights as heterosexuals was never the point. By forcing everyone in the state into a gay marriage, we're setting the stage for our more pressing hidden agendas: mandatory sodomy and, in due time, the legalization of bestiality and pedophilia."
 
 Massachusetts has one of the highest concentrations of gay households in the country, at 1.3 percent, according to the 2000 census. Under the new laws, the figure is expected to increase by approximately 98.7 percentage points.

Bags

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2004, 04:24:00 pm »
Look at what we've come to.....
 
 A father watched his daughter playing in the garden.  He smiled as he reflected on how sweet and innocent his little girl was.  
 
 Suddenly she just stopped and stared at the ground. He went over to her and noticed she was looking at two spiders mating.
 
 "Daddy, what are those two spiders doing?" she asked.  "They're mating," her father replied.
 
 "What do you call the spider on top, Daddy?" she asked. "That's a Daddy Longlegs," Her father answered.  
 
 So, the other one is a Mommy Longlegs?"  The little girl asked.  No," her father replied.  "Both of them are Daddy Longlegs."
 
 The little girl thought for a moment, then took her foot and stomped them flat.
 
 "That might be OK in Massachusetts, but we're not having any of that crap  here in Texas"

Celeste

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2004, 04:28:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mankie:
  Rhett's gay and he's been married for a while now.
he's bi, mankie, just like everybody

keithstg

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2004, 04:31:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Bags:
  Look at what we've come to.....
 
 A father watched his daughter playing in the garden.  He smiled as he reflected on how sweet and innocent his little girl was.  
 
 Suddenly she just stopped and stared at the ground. He went over to her and noticed she was looking at two spiders mating.
 
 "Daddy, what are those two spiders doing?" she asked.  "They're mating," her father replied.
 
 "What do you call the spider on top, Daddy?" she asked. "That's a Daddy Longlegs," Her father answered.  
 
 So, the other one is a Mommy Longlegs?"  The little girl asked.  No," her father replied.  "Both of them are Daddy Longlegs."
 
 The little girl thought for a moment, then took her foot and stomped them flat.
 
 "That might be OK in Massachusetts, but we're not having any of that crap  here in Texas"
What? We've come to a bad joke?

ggw

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2004, 04:32:00 pm »
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Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
   
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Originally posted by mankie:
  Rhett's gay and he's been married for a while now.
he's bi, mankie, just like everybody [/b]
Everybody is bisexual?

Celeste

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2004, 04:39:00 pm »
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
   
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Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
   
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Originally posted by mankie:
  Rhett's gay and he's been married for a while now.
he's bi, mankie, just like everybody [/b]
Everybody is bisexual? [/b]
I think people all have the potential to be bisexual, the majority are just socialized to be one way or the other...sexuality is not really a question of one or the other, it may be more a question of when...

ggw

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Re: gay marriage
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2004, 04:45:00 pm »
People all have the potential to be killers.  But we have been socialized against it.
 
 Are we all killers?