gay marriage

[Celeste]

Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
  Can't+NOT+NOT
 
 You lost me with that sentence!
 
 Right?

It means I can't relate to a desire for someone of my own sex that is so strong I couldn't chose not to go for it. It means that if a girl was cute enough and the circumstances were right, I might go for it, but I am not compelled to...whereas I understand some homosexuals tend to describe their situation as being very strongly drawn to their own sex to the point that they would be in denial if they did not go for it. I'm saying that since I'm not gay I can't really say if it's a choice for them or not. I can only speak of what I think about bisexuality.

[mankie]

Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
   

Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
  Can't+NOT+NOT
 
 You lost me with that sentence!
 
 Right?

It means I can't relate to a desire for someone of my own sex that is so strong I couldn't chose not to go for it. It means that if a girl was cute enough and the circumstances were right, I might go for it, but I am not compelled to...whereas I understand some homosexuals tend to describe their situation as being very strongly drawn to their own sex to the point that they would be in denial if they did not go for it. I'm saying that since I'm not gay I can't really say if it's a choice for them or not. I can only speak of what I think about bisexuality. [/b]

I think women have a stronger tendency to be bisexual...men are more black and white on the issue, for the most part.

[Celeste]

Originally posted by mankie:
  I think women have a stronger tendency to be bisexual...men are more black and white on the issue, for the most part.

hello!
 
 that's because of the socialization...in our culture, it's OK for women to be touchy-feely with people...including other women...women are "pretty"...women are objectified much more in media for both men and women...that is why...it's nothing inherent...in ancient Greece, most of the scholars were bi, weren't they? they procreated with the women, but they had sex with other men for pleasure and camraderie...it's totally cultural

[mankie]

Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
   

Originally posted by mankie:
  I think women have a stronger tendency to be bisexual...men are more black and white on the issue, for the most part.

hello!
 
 that's because of the socialization...in our culture, it's OK for women to be touchy-feely with people...including other women...women are "pretty"...women are objectified much more in media for both men and women...that is why...it's nothing inherent...in ancient Greece, most of the scholars were bi, weren't they? they procreated with the women, but they had sex with other men for pleasure and camraderie...it's totally cultural [/b]

Err, they were Greek..what's your point?
 
 It has nothing to do with socialization, it has everything to do with emotional make up of the sexes...why is it little girls immediately start to play with baby dolls and boys with trucks before there's been a chance to "socialize" them as you say?

[Celeste]

Originally posted by mankie:
  It has nothing to do with socialization, it has everything to do with emotional make up of the sexes...why is it little girls immediately start to play with baby dolls and boys with trucks before there's been a chance to "socialize" them as you say?

what does playing with dolls or trucks have to do with emotional makeup or sexuality...plenty of gay or bi guys are just as "masculine" on the outside...and I chose mainly stuffed animals when I was a kid...what does that make me, I wonder? a "Furry"? I do like my men hairy

[walkman]

Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
   

Originally posted by mankie:
  I think women have a stronger tendency to be bisexual...men are more black and white on the issue, for the most part.

hello!
 
 that's because of the socialization...in our culture, it's OK for women to be touchy-feely with people...including other women...women are "pretty"...women are objectified much more in media for both men and women...that is why...it's nothing inherent...in ancient Greece, most of the scholars were bi, weren't they? they procreated with the women, but they had sex with other men for pleasure and camraderie...it's totally cultural [/b]

All that being said, (and I agree), I think the point has been missed - what one does for sexual gratification is quite a different matter than what one does for emotional fulfilment.  I don't know any bisexuals who have the same number of relationships with both sexes - even if they'd just as soon hook up with a guy as a girl.  With that in mind, I'd argue that sexual orientation cannot be socialized - we are born a certain way, but with what I would consider to be varying degrees of flexibility.

[Celeste]

What you said makes sense...varying degrees of flexibility, yes...and the difference between sexual and emotional fulfillment.

[walkman]

Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
  and the difference between sexual and emotional fulfillment.

which is why I'm so strongly in favor of gay marriage - I can't think of a better way to emphasize the importance of emotional fulfilment in a relationship.

[mankie]

Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
   

Originally posted by mankie:
  It has nothing to do with socialization, it has everything to do with emotional make up of the sexes...why is it little girls immediately start to play with baby dolls and boys with trucks before there's been a chance to "socialize" them as you say?

what does playing with dolls or trucks have to do with emotional makeup or sexuality...plenty of gay or bi guys are just as "masculine" on the outside...and I chose mainly stuffed animals when I was a kid...what does that make me, I wonder? a "Furry"? I do like my men hairy [/b]

My point was that you were basically saying we're all the same, but some have a willy and some a hoo-ha and boobies, then depending on our socialization we decide if we're going straight, bi or gay....my point was simply that we are very different even before socialization can have an impact....a bad example with the doll/truck I admit, but it was just to make the point.
 
 Your stuffed animal example is also a bad one because I would say that is an animal lover thing not a sexual thing. You'll find many little boys who will love a teddy bear but not a doll. That's like saying I'm gay because I hug and kiss my 15 month old son.

[mankie]

Originally posted by walkie hearts you all:
   

Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
  and the difference between sexual and emotional fulfillment.

which is why I'm so strongly in favor of gay marriage - I can't think of a better way to emphasize the importance of emotional fulfilment in a relationship. [/b]

I agree there should be civil gay marraiges, if for no other reason than they gays should be given the same spousal rights as everyone else, but I also think each religion should be left to make it's own decision on wether they want to perform gay marraiges. And no I'm not religious whatsoever.

[Celeste]

I was joking about the stuffed animal...and I don't think we're "all the same" men and women...I still think that many more men would be bisexual if they received the same societal encouragement women do. My attraction to women, when I have it, is not at all emotional and is purely sexual...so it's not really an emotional thing. Maybe that's what differentiates the bi's who want to just play with people of their own gender from the gays who want a relationship and a life with someone of their own gender.
 
 I'd never want an intense relationship with a woman...women are such a pain in the ass : )

[Celeste]

Originally posted by mankie:
  I agree there should be civil gay marraiges, if for no other reason than they gays should be given the same spousal rights as everyone else, but I also think each religion should be left to make it's own decision on wether they want to perform gay marraiges. And no I'm not religious whatsoever.

I agree with you on all counts here. Religions can do what they want. For example, I never understood gays who wanted to be Catholic...why be Catholic if you're gay and they traditionally prohibit that? Just be something else, or make up your own thing...

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

Truer words were never spoken.
 
 But sometimes pains in the ass can be pleasureable.
 
 Just make sure you use lots of lube.
 
 

Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
 
 
 I'd never want an intense relationship with a woman...women are such a pain in the ass : )

[SPARX]

Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
  Truer words were never spoken.
 
 But sometimes pains in the ass can be pleasureable.
 
 Just make sure you use lots of lube.
 
 

And you  guys give Samantha a hard time about her content.Pot,kettle,kettle,pot  

[Celeste]

Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
  Truer words were never spoken.
 
 But sometimes pains in the ass can be pleasureable.
 
 Just make sure you use lots of lube.
 
   

Originally posted by Harriet Balls:
 
 
 I'd never want an intense relationship with a woman...women are such a pain in the ass : )

[/b]

yeah? you'll be lubing yourself up after that comment!