Phoenix upset!

[Jaguar]

Heard this show being highlighted on WTMD this morning on the way into work so I guess that turned up the flame a little bit. Oddly, I've never heard them played on the station though that doesn't amount to a hill of beans since I only bother with the station on short commutes. Even then, it involves a radio tug of war with WRNR since both stations are constantly turning me off. Couldn't help but wonder if they are yet another media outlet mining this forum for music news. 

[snailhook]

I can promise you RnR andLiveNation have nothing -- and as long as the RnR booker stays there -- will never have anything to do with each other. Blood has been spilled over that relationship. LN did do a couple shows there early on, but that was before things went down.

redsock is correct. they tried to collaborate and it didn't work out, for a few reasons, one of which is pretty hysterical. i shouldn't divulge, though. this is coming straight from the horse's mouth at live nation.

i know exactly why RNRH gets some major shows. it has everything to do with the black cat dropping the ball on numerous shows -- mostly to do dance nights all weekend -- and booking agents getting tired of it. and there are no other mid-size venues (250-500) for bands to play, other than the birchmere, which has its own niche.

this irks me to no end, but less so since i moved to philly. still, a large part of my heart is in dc and i would love to see a 400-500-cap venue that does everything right and blows RNRH out of the water. if someone opened up a killer independent venue around u/14th streets, they would start taking shows away from RNRH, just like it has taken shows away from the black cat.

btw, i was offered to book phoenix at johnny brenda's, which is 280-cap, and the passed because of rerouting. phoenix would have instantly sold jb's out. the booking agent told me that they are deliberately playing smaller venues this time around (at least, in markets that are not NY and LA).

[reggie]

one of which is pretty hysterical. i shouldn't divulge, though.

c'mon. 

[Giles]

I suspect that they'll be back later in the year, and at a bigger venue.

[deleted snarky remark] it makes you think what bands would not be bypassing DC if the promised House of Blues had been built without all the bruhaha.   

[bearman🐻]

Any chance someone snagged an extra for a furry friend named Bearman? Pretty please? Hot tub party after the show?

[Firebutt McGee]

I was at Coachella and avoided the internet and the forum like the plague. Who's got an extra for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

[edbert]

So how does Phoenix get the simulated doubletracked vocal effect when they play live?  Is this something available on modern soundboards?  It doesn't sound like an echo or reverb.  For example with Lisztomania on SNL they were switching back and forth with using it from the verse to the chorus.  Historically it'd be done in the studio by recording the vocal once then playing it back through headphones while singing it again, and combining the two tracks for more depth

[sweetcell]

So how does Phoenix get the simulated doubletracked vocal effect when they play live?  Is this something available on modern soundboards?  It doesn't sound like an echo or reverb.  For example with Lisztomania on SNL they were switching back and forth with using it from the verse to the chorus.  Historically it'd be done in the studio by recording the vocal once then playing it back through headphones while singing it again, and combining the two tracks for more depth

most likely a harmonizer/harmonizing effect.  probably the most known of these are the eventide H series, but there are LOTS of effect boxes that can produce a harmonizing effect (example).

fyi most effects are provided by outboard gear, not the soundboard (mixer) itself.

[edbert]

I just watched a little of that youtube demo and it's something different... unless a true doubletrack effect was presented after I lost my patience. With the Phoenix vocals, what's added isn't a pitch-shifted harmony note... it's a note of the same pitch, and to get the doubletracked sound I'm guessing the effect might be quickly and continuously varying the time shift between the generated copy and the original so that it doesn't just sound like a slapback echo with a tiny delay or a reverb. Just like when guys like John Lennon did it the old way, the doubled part doesn't line up exactly and that's what makes it give the vocal more depth

[Justin Tonation]

I just watched a little of that youtube demo and it's something different... unless a true doubletrack effect was presented after I lost my patience. With the Phoenix vocals, what's added isn't a pitch-shifted harmony note... it's a note of the same pitch, and to get the doubletracked sound I'm guessing the effect might be quickly and continuously varying the time shift between the generated copy and the original so that it doesn't just sound like a slapback echo with a tiny delay or a reverb. Just like when guys like John Lennon did it the old way, the doubled part doesn't line up exactly and that's what makes it give the vocal more depth

Lots of effect boxes and plugins can "humanize" a signal or sequence by slightly altering the various aspects of sound and rhythm. Simulating double-tracked vocals in a live setting should be doable by now.

[sweetcell]

I just watched a little of that youtube demo and it's something different... unless a true doubletrack effect was presented after I lost my patience. With the Phoenix vocals, what's added isn't a pitch-shifted harmony note... it's a note of the same pitch,

i didn't mean that the video did exactly the phoenix effect, it was meant as an example of what is possible.  i wasn't sure how familiar you were with vocal processing, your initial question led me to believe you weren't - my bad. 
 

and to get the doubletracked sound I'm guessing the effect might be quickly and continuously varying the time shift between the generated copy and the original so that it doesn't just sound like a slapback echo with a tiny delay or a reverb. Just like when guys like John Lennon did it the old way, the doubled part doesn't line up exactly and that's what makes it give the vocal more depth

the effect you seem to be describing is called flanging - not exactly what's going on here.  there definitely is a small delay but not enough to be perceived as slap-back.  the delay is also constant.  the doubled (delayed) signal is further processed, quite heavily actually, but i have no idea how.

Simulating double-tracked vocals in a live setting should be doable by now.

definitely is... just check out the phoenix video   also, it's entirely possible the band is playing to tape so we don't know if this is live.

[edbert]

   i wasn't sure how familiar you were with vocal processing, your initial question led me to believe you weren't - my bad. 

My knowledge of audio gear and technique is current right up to about 1975

[kosmo vinyl]

Phoenix live concert stream at http://www.live.sfr.fr/  today (6/3/09) should be starting shortly around 3:30pm our time.  Looks as if shows are archived...

[kosmo vinyl]

band just started their set....

[serpent boy]

Awesome! I saw your link, clicked, and they got on stage. Phoenix on demand!