Author Topic: random . . . randomness  (Read 1758380 times)

Space Freely

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7575 on: March 11, 2024, 09:09:32 am »
I don't know. But you said trillions to individual countries, and it's obviously billions. And in the cases you mentioned, less than 100 billion, which is 10% of or less than 10% of your original claim.

I'm not an expert on the case but it appears that the lawsuit wasn't filed against the Federal Government, so why would we expect the federal government to pay the settlement?

Do you think Trump will ever pay the 400 billion penalty her was just levied?


On November 10, 2021, Judge Judith E. Levy of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan granted final approval of a landmark $626.25 million settlement resulting from the class action and individual lawsuits brought on behalf of more than 90,000 Flint residents and businesses against multiple governmental defendants, including the State of Michigan, Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ), and individual defendants, including former Governor Rick Snyder, for their roles in re-directing toxic levels of contaminated water from the Flint River into the City’s drinking water in an effort to save money and their subsequent efforts to try to cover up the crisis.

https://www.cohenmilstein.com/case-study/flint-water-crisis-class-action-litigation/

Blow, me, Joey

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7576 on: March 11, 2024, 09:26:30 am »
Sorry, that my question of humanity shows you only care about word semantics, and not the actual problem of our country wanting to fix the infrastructure, of our county.

Thank God, a brewery wasn't affected.


Space Freely

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7577 on: March 11, 2024, 09:55:43 am »
Sorry, that my question of humanity shows you only care about word semantics, and not the actual problem of our country wanting to fix the infrastructure, of our county.

Thank God, a brewery wasn't affected.

Who needs to be paying the Flint settlement money and why aren't they paying?

The final settlement wasn't determined until 2023, and it's the State of Michigan that owes the money, not the US government. Facts matter.

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/judge-approves-flint-water-settlement/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab4i&_amp=1*1gzpsmu*s_vid*bklDdUtyMmZQSU1oTlVaVld0a0sxVGdVLTFjd0dCQVBfWjNKejR4ckxHanFwYXlUOVlLLWNkZ0hEeGdQWWxBOQ..
« Last Edit: March 11, 2024, 09:59:30 am by Space Freely »

Yada

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7578 on: March 11, 2024, 10:33:54 am »
According to Google:

"Israel has received hundreds of billions of dollars in U.S. foreign aid in the post–World War II era"

"the United States obligated nearly $78.3 billion to Pakistan between 1948 and 2016"

"U.S. Congress have directed about $75 billion in assistance to Ukraine"

My question was, if we have the funds for other countries, why haven't we paid to help the residents of Flint Hill in our country? Is that a difficult question for you?

SPACE[/shadow][/glow][/b][/i][/u]


sweetcell

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7579 on: March 11, 2024, 04:42:06 pm »
i'm with space on this one.

numbers: if you're going to exaggerate in the name of sensationalism, don't complain when you're called out for sensationalism and exaggeration. if you want others to focus on your main point, don't hide it under false and distracting embellishments.

as space pointed out, it's apples and oranges.  funding for foreign countries has nothing to do with the flint settlement, since the latter isn't against the federal government.  smells of false outrage.

more generally, we can in fact walk and chew gum.  money for infrastructure and foreign support comes from different and unrelated budgets.  cutting a dollar from from aid to <insert country here> will not result in an additional dollar for cleaning up flint, so why make the false association?  politically expediency, methinks: everyone can get behind opposing the injustice in flint.  if you are an anti-globalist/america first/etc, why not latch your wagon to this be damned the lack of actual association?

and finally, those in need of help (and their advocates) shouldn't be kicking others in need of help.  why does one never hear, as part of a "hey what about keeping that money here at home" argument, the idea of taxing corporations that don't pay any tax?  or the billionaires who pay a lower tax rate than teachers?  what about cutting the salary of politicians and use those funds on their constituents?
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nkotb

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7580 on: March 11, 2024, 05:37:11 pm »
lol what? literally everyone is always saying this. we just dont' have any politicians that care to do anything about it.

But BMJ's sensationalism aside, we should not be paying Israel to do a genocide, or fund a proxy war in Ukraine, or hell, pay our own military to do war crimes and buy military grade weaponry for cops to murder black and brown citizens, but we should just fix Flint and every other city's poison water supply and house and fed everyone instead.

I do believe we can walk (do good) and chew gum (stop doing evil) at the same time.

why does one never hear, as part of a "hey what about keeping that money here at home" argument, the idea of taxing corporations that don't pay any tax?  or the billionaires who pay a lower tax rate than teachers?  what about cutting the salary of politicians and use those funds on their constituents?

sweetcell

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7581 on: March 11, 2024, 06:42:02 pm »
we should not be paying Israel to do a genocide, or fund a proxy war in Ukraine, or hell, pay our own military to do war crimes and buy military grade weaponry for cops to murder black and brown citizens, but we should just fix Flint and every other city's poison water supply and house and fed everyone instead.

agree with all of the above with the exception of the "proxy" war in ukraine - which it isn't.  if you don't care about the fate of a democracy and the rape/torture/murder of its 44M people, please spare a thought for the US soldiers that will be sent to defend NATO allies when the russians turn their attention to the baltics and/or poland.  the choice is funding ukraine to do the fighting for us; or do nothing now and later do both the funding and the fighting.
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hutch

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7582 on: March 11, 2024, 06:51:53 pm »
The Ukraine taking on Russia -even with our help- is not realistic. They cannot win. And we cannot full on engage Russia.

Let’s be realistic. The best one can hope for is to stiffen Ukraine’s position and then negotiate.

Kissinger called this a few weeks after war broke out.

The idea that if Russia gets the eastern part of Ukraine they will then invade the baltics or Poland is just supposition by those that want to argue that either we stand up in the Ukraine or Russia will take over Europe. And the usual warmongers and military industrial complex of course.

Ukraine cannot win and ignoring its in Russia’s sphere of influence, its history, the Russian speaking population in Ukraine etc does nobody any favors.


Also, the war can go on but when a Republican is elected not necessarily now , they will back out of helping Ukraine so the best option is to improve Ukraine’s position and negotiate quickly. It’s inevitable
« Last Edit: March 11, 2024, 07:02:10 pm by Hutch »

sweetcell

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7583 on: March 11, 2024, 08:02:20 pm »
The Ukraine taking on Russia -even with our help- is not realistic. They cannot win.

Let’s be realistic. The best one can hope for is to stiffen Ukraine’s position and then negotiate.

as one who follows the war on a daily basis, i do not share this assessment.  things aren't going ukraine's way, currently, due to lack of weapons.  once that gets sorted out, we'll be back to where the ukrainians are on an approximately even footing.  ukraine has attempted three large-scale offensives and the first two were successful (kharkiv and kherson).  the third one yielded meager results and then sputtered out.  but based on one of three we're saying they can't win?

neither russia's full-on psyops to reduce western interest in the ukraine war, nor the inevitable fatigue with something that has dragged on for over 2 years, changes what is actually possible.

Kissinger called this a few weeks after war broke out.

kissinger called for negotiations that included russians retreating to its pre-invasion lines, and negotiations on crimea that should lead to some sort of "third status", shared authority, international monitors, etc.  that's entirely different than the "negotiations" (AKA surrender) being called for by some today, so invoking some geriatric warmonger's past opinion isn't holding much weight here, IMO. 

The idea that if Russia gets the eastern part of Ukraine they will then invade the baltics or Poland is just supposition by those that want to argue that either we stand up in the Ukraine or Russia will take over Europe.

actually, it's what the russians are saying themselves (russians aren't very good at not saying the quiet part out loud).  to be fair, russia is pulling a russia on this by saying both things to muddy the waters: putin has officially declared "no more invasions" (just like he said "we will not invade ukraine" in early Feb'22), while statements from many other political & military leaders and leaked documents attest to their real desire to seize the baltics and poland.  there are long-standing strategic reasons why russia needs to plugs the gaps that are those two regions, i'll spare you here but lemme know if you want links to read more about it.

but what about NATO?  russia is bankxing on the fact that article 5 won't be respected/enforced, something that the west has given russia plenty of reason to believe would be true.  if trump is re-elected in november, you can be assured that putin will be given the green light.

Ukraine cannot win and ignoring its in Russia’s sphere of influence, its history, the Russian speaking population in Ukraine etc does nobody any favors.

that is the defeatist attitude of someone with the luxury of being on the sidelines.  "hey, you're being raped, might as well not fight and limit the damage.  if you play your cards right, maybe you can keep your purse.  also, please stop screaming, it's hurting my ears".

the reason why there are so many russian-speakers in ukraine is because the ukrainian speakers were deported en masse to siberia under the soviets, and ethnics russians were imported by the millions and given the resources of the deported ukrainians.  this was done massively in the east (AKA donbas) due to the industrial and mineral wealth in the area.  those areas aren't natively russian - they were systematically stolen.  same with crimea, millions of tatars were deported and replaced with russians.  their so-called historic claim to those areas are null and void.

to bring it home to you, hutch: it's like saying the malvinas falklands are populated by english speakers, and the british have been there for a really long time, so argentina really should just stop whining and give up its claim to those meaningless islands.  kind of a shitty take, huh?

It’s inevitable
except that it's not.
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sweetcell

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7584 on: March 11, 2024, 11:12:41 pm »
final point:
The best one can hope for is to stiffen Ukraine’s position and then negotiate.

except that a negotiated settlement is not the best one can hope for.  part of the "logic" of negotiating is a misperceived calculus: "many ukrainians are dying, so if they negotiate a truce/surrender, it will save lives" - except it won't.

1) when russians move into a newly conquered territory, the first order of business is to purge.  anyone who served at any level of government or administration?  tortured for information then executed.  anyone who serves in the ukrainian armed forces?  executed, unless willing to switch allegiances to russia and will be immediately assigned to a meat-wave brigade (i.e., executed).  anyone who has publicly professed allegiance to ukraine, has "pro-ukrainian" tattoos, or even owns a ukrainian flag?  minimum is a torture session, at worse execution.  any thought leaders that aren't 100% pro-kremlin?  buh-bye.  artists and other free-thinkers?  you guessed it.  anyone not caught up in the purge can expect to suffer as they are categorized as second-class citizens and will have their possessions redistributed to the ethnic russians that are brought in to dilute/replace the (former) ukrainian population.  women should fear being gang raped.  parents should expect to have their children taken away and never seen again.  don't believe me?  ask the citizens of bucha, izyum, sloviansk, irpin, sumy, kherson, mariupol, melitopol, energodar... literally any other place the russians surged into.  mo' russians = mo' death.  so, might as well fight. 

2) any "peace" will be temporary.  russia will use any peace time to re-arm, ramp up conscription, and otherwise strengthen its military to go back on the offensive.  ask the chechens how that peace treaty worked out for them.  putin respects treaties as long and only as long as it is advantageous for him, so he isn't a good faith negotiator.
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hutch

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7585 on: March 12, 2024, 07:23:31 am »
It’s too early in the morning for this…..

hutch

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7586 on: March 12, 2024, 11:20:05 am »
It’s too late in the morning for this…

Yada

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7587 on: March 12, 2024, 11:40:38 am »

hutch

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7588 on: March 12, 2024, 11:51:23 am »
Nobody is going to change any minds. Sweetcell feels guilty he is not in the frontlines fighting the ruskies and I have seen enough US involvement in war.

Gore Vidal wrote that he didn’t think WWII was worth the loss of one life.

Space Freely

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Re: random . . . randomness
« Reply #7589 on: March 12, 2024, 11:52:38 am »


How'd you get NKOTB to pose for the pic?