News about Katrina to discuss:

[Arlette]

That writer is wrong, wrong, wrong.  He says " However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request. "
 
 From FEMA's website:
 
 "The Federal Emergency Management Agency - a former independent agency that became part of the new Department of Homeland Security in March 2003 - is tasked with responding to, planning for, recovering from and mitigating against disasters.
 
 As it has for more than 20 years, FEMA's mission remains: to lead America to prepare for, prevent, respond to and recover from disasters with a vision of "A Nation Prepared." At no time in its history has this vision been more important to the country than in the aftermath of Sept. 11th."
 
 Emphasis mine.
 
 Ummm, so, FEMA should change their mission statement then because clearly the writer of that article (from the WSJ, shocker!) is right and FEMA's own mission statement is wrong.

[ggw]

I'm certainly not going to exonerate the federal government on this clusterfuck; however, I will clarify who had the "first responder" authority in this situation:
 
 "As much as we try to prepare for catastrophic disasters and to reduce our risk from their devastation, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods and other disasters still happen.
 
 When they do, local and state officials are the first to respond. If the loss of life and property overwhelms this response, the federal government ... including FEMA ... is called upon to help."
 
 Source: Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness
 
 Anyone who believes that Nagin and Blanco didn't screw the pooch as much as FEMA is either a partisan hack or a moron.  
 
 Or maybe both.

[vansmack]

Ahh, my two favorite Republicans, GGW and Venerable....always there to spin.
 
 Yes, New Orleans city folks are to take some blame, so are Louisiana state officials - and they are.  They are accountable and accepting responsibilty.  But the national leaders clearly are not.
 
 How can Bob Williams write that article without one mention of the 2004 change to how America responds to domestic crisis?  This is Bush Policy post 2004:
 
 
 Press Releases
 http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/press_release/press_release_0581.xml
 
 Department of Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge Announces Completion of the National Response Plan
 
 For Immediate Release
 Office of the Press Secretary
 Contact: 202-282-8010
 January 6, 2005
 
  Fact Sheet: National Response Plan  
 
 The U. S. Department of Homeland Security, in partnership with federal departments and agencies, state, local and tribal officials, private sector and national and international associations, today announced completion of the National Response Plan.
 
  �??The National Response Plan embodies our nation�??s commitment to the concept of one team, one goal -- a safer and more secure America,�?� said Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge. �??Completion of the National Response Plan has been one of my department�??s highest priorities, and this achievement is a bold step forward in bringing unity in our response to disasters and terrorist threats and attacks.�?�
 
 The National Response Plan now establishes a unified and standardized approach within the United States for protecting citizens and managing homeland security incidents.  All federal departments and agencies that may be required to assist or support during a national incident will use this Plan, whether from threats or acts of terrorism, major natural disasters, or man-made emergencies. The National Response Plan standardizes federal incident response actions by integrating existing and formerly disparate processes. The Plan uses the National Incident Management System (NIMS) to establish standardized training, organization, and communications procedures for multi-jurisdictional interaction and clearly identifies authority and leadership responsibilities.  The Plan also provides a comprehensive framework for private and non-profit institutions to plan and integrate their own preparedness and response activities, nationally and within their own communities.
 
 �??With the National Response Plan our nation and its federal, state, local, and tribal response communities now have a comprehensive, all-hazards tool for domestic incident management across the spectrum of prevention, preparedness, response, and recovery,�?� said Ridge.  �??The complex and emerging threats of the 21st century demand this synchronized and coordinated plan in order to adequately protect our nation and its citizens.�?�  
 
 The National Response Plan was developed by teams of experts from federal departments and agencies, state, local, and tribal officials, incident response and private sector communities from around the nation.   Ridge said, �??We brought together the best of the best in our nation�??s incident management and first responder communities for a singular but critical national endeavor, and I am honored to recognize their achievement in completing this landmark Plan and making America safer.�?�  
 
 The National Response Plan fulfills a requirement in Homeland Security Presidential Directive 5 and provides a core operational plan for all national incident management.  When fully implemented, it will supersede the Initial National Response Plan (INRP), the Federal Response Plan (FRP), the U. S. Government Interagency Domestic Terrorism Concept of Operations Plan (CONPLAN), and the Federal Radiological Emergency Response Plan (FRERP).  
 
 The National Response Plan and the supporting National Incident Management System establish incident management processes to:
 
  </font>

• <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Improve coordination and integration between federal, state, local, tribal, regional, private sector, and non-governmental organization partners;</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Integrate the federal response to catastrophic events;</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Improve incident management communications and increase cross-jurisdictional coordination and situational awareness;</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Improve federal to federal interaction and emergency support;</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Maximize use and employment of incident management resources; and</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Facilitate emergency mutual aid and federal emergency support to state, local, and tribal governments.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
   
 The National Response Plan further recognizes the potential magnitude of threats from weapons of mass destruction and severe natural disasters by adoption of a new term, the Incident of National Significance. An incident of national significance is described as an incident with high impact requiring an extensive and well-coordinated response by federal, state, local, tribal, and nongovernmental authorities to save lives, minimize damage, and provide the basis for long-term community and economic recovery.
 
 Interested citizens may view and download a PDF copy of the National Response Plan online at  http://www.dhs.gov/nationalresponseplan  
 
 Information on FEMA National Response Plan training courses is available through links at the above website.
 
 
 ###

[ggw]

We know from experience that the 10 most frightening words in the English language are, "I'm from the Federal Government, and I'm here to help."
 
 -Ronald Reagan

[Venerable Bede]

again, i'm not here to say the feds are all good.  everyone messed up.  but to have the feds bear the brunt of the criticism is patently unfair.  as those mission statements say, fema is there to help coordinate responses. . .but, it's a two way street.  if fema isn't getting help or information from the state/city, then how can it do its job?  again, it's a two way street, everyone has to work together, and in this case, it didn't happen.  to blame the feds solely is a mistake, but a much easier target than the state and/or city leaders.

[Sage 703]

Can we also keep in mind the problem that federalism poses in this instance?  A lot of people have compared this disaster to 9/11, as it is the only thing on a similar scale in this country that we can really understand.
 
 Comparing the state leadership in these instances, you're invariably going to come up short on the Louisiana side.  But a large reason for that rests in one invariable truth: Louisiana has far less money than New York.  Regardless of whatever was done pre or post hurricane, Louisiana doesn't have the state resources, because they do not collect as much tax revenue, because their citizens do not make as much money.  Want evidence of this?  Look into what it costs to rent a luxury apartment in downtown New Orleans, and compare it to say - Arlington, Virginia.  Or if you really want some evidence, contrast it with Times Square.
 
 Mandatory evacuations, etc take enormous resources - we're seeing that now.  Louisiana simply doesn't have it.  And from day one, Louisiana asked for help, knowing that this was the case.
 
 Yes, local and state legislators didn't do much to prevent this tragedy, but tell me what could they have done?  They worked closely with FEMA officials who have given them direction on what to do.  The governor and mayor are not experts on hurricanes or disaster relief - officials at FEMA are.  And they're staffed to respond to these situations when state and local leadership asks for help.  If you think that Nagin and Blanco weren't in touch with FEMA prior to the hurricane, you're insane.

[Arlette]

Here's why I blame the Feds more:
 
 Blanco and Nagin were on TV and radio pleading for help and annoucning the devastation, pretty much from the first day. At least they got how awful this was.
 
 When Bush got there two days later, he basically said, on national television:
 
 "I love New Orleans and have fond memories from being here in my younger days.  Probably over-indulged here at times too." (he then sort of snickered)
 
 "Trent Lott lost his house, I'll enjoy sitting on his porch one day again soon".
 
 Imagine if Giuliani had stood at Ground Zero and said, "I used to go to Windows on the World and, well, hee hee, kinda got drunk there sometimes. I'll miss the place."
 
 Completely inappropriate.  And Michael Brown and Michael Chertloff, the two guys in charge at FEMA....they were so clueless.  
 
 "I have not heard a report of thousands of people in the convention center who don't have food and water." -Chertloff, as the images are being broadcast around the world.  
 
 These are supposed to be the people in charge.  Even if the local and state officials were completely incompetent (which they weren't), the Feds totally fell down on the job. Bush is talking about getting drunk in his youth?  That's our President?  I expect better from our President than I do from the mayor of New Orleans.

[ggw]

Originally posted by callat703:
  Yes, local and state legislators didn't do much to prevent this tragedy, but tell me what could they have done?  

New Orleans had considered what to do in case a "catastrophic" storm were heading for them. The plan acknowledged that only like a quarter of residents owned private vehicles and that buses (city as well as private) would have to be used to evacuate those without their own transportation.  Instead of doing this, Nagin designated 12 pick up locations and moved everyone to the Superdome.
 
 Nagin also told the Times-Picayune a couple days after the storm that his plan consisted solely of "moving people to higher ground and hoping supplies could be air-lifted into them."  In other words, he completely abandoned the hurricane plan.
 
 Despite its name, the "National" Guard is actually run by the state government, not the federal.  It was the National Guard that told everyone to go to the Convention Center.  It was also the National Guard (acting on the request of the Louisiana Dept of Homeland Security) that consistently refused to allow the Red Cross into the city.
 
 Also, FEMA usually takes over when the state authorizes them to do so.  As of this past weekend, Blanco still had not authorized them to run the show.  She has even gone so far as to hire her own advisors to come in and run things.
 
 FEMA and the U.S. Dept of Homeland Security have the tools to tell the state and local authorities to fuck off.  They clearly should have used them.  FEMA deserves the blame they are getting.  Brown's an idiot and should resign/be fired as soon as practical.  The point is that this situation was screwed from the beginning; first by Nagin who implemented a half-assed, improvised preparation (probably as a way of avoiding the political embarassment that would have come if he had implemented a hugely expensive evacuation and the city didn't get flooded); and then by Blanco who has simultaneously tried to keep political authority over the situation while expecting the feds to do the work.
 
 In the end, the blame should go to the fact that all those involved acted like what they are - bureaucrats and politicians who are most concerned about protecting their little fiefdoms of power and keeping up appearances.

[Sage 703]

While I don't disagree with you entirely, I'd like to raise a separate question.  While you're right that the National Guard generally answers to the state government, this changes when the President federalizes the National Guard, thus making it an instrument of the federal government.
 
 From the National Guard website:
 
 "During peacetime each state National Guard answers to the leadership in the 50 states, three territories and the District of Columbia. During national emergencies, however, the President reserves the right to mobilize the National Guard, putting them in federal duty status. While federalized, the units answer to the Combatant Commander of the theatre in which they are operating and, ultimately, to the President.
 
 Even when not federalized, the Army National Guard has a federal obligation (or mission.) That mission is to maintain properly trained and equipped units, available for prompt mobilization for war, national emergency, or as otherwise needed."
 
 
 My question is: who had control of the National Guard at this point in time?  The President, as a result of his mobilization of the National Guard for deployment to Iraq; or the state government?

[godsshoeshine]

here's why the feds get the blame: no one in virginia/dc/maryland/northern california voted for nagin or blanco. sure, everyone dropped the ball, but the rest of the county can't vote out those two jokers. plus, its federal money that's going to bail out new orleans. if mothernature wiped dc off the map, would you feel safe with williams in charge?

[Venerable Bede]

i'm sure these could have helped evacuate people in new orleans- as the city's evacuation plan imagined.
 
   <img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg?x=380&y=235&sig=NbUvEfVIaferkxoZTiys0Q--" alt=" - " />

[godsshoeshine]

also, they could have sold them and started to pay for levee improvements

[ggw]

Originally posted by callat703:
 My question is: who had control of the National Guard at this point in time?  The President, as a result of his mobilization of the National Guard for deployment to Iraq; or the state government?

I don't know the exact answer, but my sense is that the Defense Department only controls those National Guard troops that have been "called-up" while the state retains the authority over those that remain in the state.

<img src="http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_oct2004/RunawayOstrich.jpg" alt=" - " />

[Sir HC]

From the Washington Post Website The Debate section:
 
 Facts and Rumors: Federal Power in a State of Emergency
 First, a note to all the Debaters: Ordinarily, Wednesday would mark the beginning of a new week for The Debate -- it's the day a fresh topic would be introduced for discussion until the following Tuesday. But this is no ordinary week. So we're bending the rules to make room for a few more days of Hurricane Katrina, and we'll introduce next week's issue, the Roberts nomination, on Monday -- just in time for the start of his hearings.
 
 But for now, we're still talking about the hurricane, and all the false assertions that have been floating around with regard to who had the power to do what in Louisiana have got to be put to rest. Please allow me to use the text of federal laws and some other reputable sources in order to set the record straight. (My very basic conclusions based on those facts appear in parenthesis.)
 
 Fact: Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declared a State of Emergency for her state on Friday, Aug. 26. Full disclosure: The Post reported last week -- erroneously, it turned out -- that Louisiana had not issued such a declaration. A correction was published on Sept. 5.
 
 Fact: President Bush declared a State of Emergency the next day Saturday before Hurricane Katrina hit.
 
 Fact: Presidential declarations of emergency are made after a request from "the governor of the impacted state, based on finding that the disaster is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the ability of the state and affected local jurisdictions."
 [Update: The link above doesn't seem to be working anymore, so here's a copy of the page as it appeared on Aug. 14, 2004, courtesy of archive.org's Wayback Machine. The page does not appear to have changed between when it was archived and when I looked at it yesterday.]
 
 Fact: Blanco sent a letter dated Aug. 28 to Bush -- via the FEMA regional director -- requesting that he "declare a major disaster," and Bush responded by wisely declaring an emergency. There is a very slight difference, funding-wise, between declaring a major disaster and declaring an emergency -- the difference is explained here -- but both authorize "emergency protective measures."
 [Update: Thanks to the astute anonymous reader who provided the link to the letter.]
 
 Fact: A declaration of emergency "unleash[es] the support of any or all of 27 federal agencies. It also authorizes reimbursement of emergency work, such as debris removal and emergency protective measures."
 
 Fact: There is a FEMA program called the National Urban Search and Rescue Response System (US&R) -- now part of the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate (EP&R) of the Department of Homeland Security. According to federal legislation, it "provides specialized lifesaving assistance during major disasters or emergencies that the President declares under the Stafford Act. US&R operational activities include locating, extricating and providing on-site medical treatment to victims trapped in collapsed structures, victims of weapons of mass destruction events, and when assigned, performing incident command or other operational activities."
 
 (I think we can all agree that such teams would have been immensely helpful on the two to three days immediately following the hurricane. The Coast Guard did a great job, it would seem, of airlifting people out of drowning homes very soon after the flooding happened, and New Orleans police devoted a great deal of time that to performing search and rescue as well. Yes, some deserted, but others stayed and did everything they could to help the city and its residents recover. Perhaps if more search and rescue professionals had been sent in in the immediate aftermath, the police could have spent that time maintaining order in the city.)
 
 Fact: In the Rules and Regulations section of the US&R legislation, "emergency " is defined as "any occasion or instance for which, in the determination of the President, Federal assistance is needed to supplement State and local efforts and capabilities to save lives and to protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in any part of the United States."
 
 Fact: In the supplementary information for the National Urban Search and Rescue Response System legislation, it says (I've taken out some of the extraneous numbers and some unnecessary phrases for ease of reading, but the meaning is unchanged):
 
 
 Section 303 of the Stafford Act authorizes the President of the United States to form emergency support teams of Federal personnel to be deployed in an area affected by a major disaster or emergency. The President delegated this function to the Director of the FEMA under Executive Order 12148. Under E.O. 13286 of February 28, 2003, the President amended E.O. 12148 to transfer the FEMA Director's delegated authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security, and under Homeland Security Delegation No. 9100, delegated the Secretary's authority under Title V of the Homeland Security Act of 2002, which includes the Stafford Act, to the Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response (EP&R).
 
 Fact: The Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response is Michael Brown.
 
 (So, EP&R director -- the head of FEMA, the guy the New Orleans Times Picayune said should "especially" be fired -- had the authority to dispatch specialized rescue squads right away. Where were they? Why didn't the president, under whose direction the Department of Homeland Security ultimately falls, insist on getting those teams on the ground -- or in the air -- as soon as the levees were breached and the flooding began?)
 
 In 1995, the Washington Monthly wrote about FEMA's miraculous turnaround after its abysmal performance dealing with Hurricane Andrew. In that story was this tidbit from Jeffrey Itell, who conducted a massive study of FEMA's operations, which uncovered that FEMA had extensive powers according to the Stafford Act that, to everyone's detriment, it was not exercising:
 
 
 We found that without state requests, FEMA could assess the catastrophic area, assess what assistance the state needed, start mobilizing that relief, present its recommendations to the governor, and, if necessary �?� get in the governor's face to force the issue of accepting federal help.
 
 This should all still apply -- unless the Department of Homeland Security nullified these common-sense FEMA powers when it subsumed the agency a couple years ago. (If it did, DHS has a lot of explaining to do.)
 
 Again, that's without state requests. (This is not to say the the local authorities couldn't have done more. For starters, they could have taken into account the substantial number of poor Now Orleans residents who wouldn't have the means to evacuate. But they were right in the middle of it all, their resources overwhelmed, whereas the federal emergency management professionals are likely to have vastly more resources (how many helicopters did the New Orleans Police Department have? I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing not as many as the federal government.)
 
 What's important to remember here is that misinformation is swirling, as is not unusual after unprecedented disasters. (David Brooks of the New York Times recalls the news accounts of [insert then-feared minority group here] cutting off the fingers of the dead in order to steal their wedding rings.)
 
 Don't get me wrong, the Debate loves and encourages a wide variety of opinions. But many opinions you'll hear from pundits on both sides of the aisle are based on false assertions. Before buying into one of these logical-but-inaccurate arguments -- many of which probably originated in a spin machine belonging to someone or another -- it makes sense to check that the facts are solid.
 
 By Emily Messner