Author Topic: once again the jokes write themselves...  (Read 193901 times)

ratioci nation

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1065 on: October 27, 2008, 03:43:00 pm »
Quote
Obama's remarks came in a long interview on civil rights and Constitutional law with two other law professors on the Chicago public radio station WBEZ in 2001. (The full transcript is here, and audio is here.) Sunstein argued that Obama is discussing redistribution in a relatively narrow legal context: The discussion in the 1970s of whether the Supreme Court would create the right to a social safety net -- to things like education and welfare. He also noted that in the interview, Obama appears to express support for the court's rejection of that line of argument, saying instead that the civil rights movement should aim for the same goals through legislative action.
 
 "What the critics are missing is that the term 'redistribution' didnâ??t man in the Constitutional context equalized wealth or anything like that. It meant some positive rights, most prominently the right to education, and also the right to a lawyer," Sunstein said. "What heâ??s saying â?? this is the irony of it â?? heâ??s basically taking the side of the conservatives then and now against the liberals."
 
 The first mention of redistribution, which does not appear on the YouTube clip, comes when Obama discusses a 1973 Supreme Court ruling finding that there is no right to education.
 
 "One other area where the civil rights area has changed... is at the state level you now have state supreme courts and state laws that in some ways have adopted the ethos of the Warren Court. A classic example would be something like public education, where after Brown v. Board, a major issue ends up being redistribution -- how do we get more money into the schools, and how do we actually create equal schools and equal educational opportunity? Well, the court in a case called San Antonio v. Rodriguez in the early '70s basically slaps those kinds of claims down, and says, 'You know what, we as a court have no power to examine issues of redistribution and wealth inequalities. With respect to schools, that's not a race issue, thats a wealth issue and something and we can't get into."
 
 Later in the interview, Obama seemed to concur with conservative and mainstream liberal scholars on the court's more modest view of its powers:
 
 "Maybe i am showing my bias here as a legislator as well as a law professor, but you know, I am not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts," he said. "You know the institution just isn't structured that way. Just look at very rare examples where during he desegregation era the court was willing to, for example, order ... changes that cost money to local school district, and the court was very uncomfortable with it. It was hard to manage, it was hard to figure out, you start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues in terms of the court monitoring or engaging in a process that is essentially is administrative and takes a lot of time. The court is not very good at it, and politically it is hard to legitimize opinions from the court in that regard. So i think that although you can craft theoretical justifications for it legally, I think any three of us sitting here could come up with a rationale for bringing about economic change through the courts, I think that as a practical matter that our institutions are just poorly equipped to do it."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Obama_advisor_pushes_back_on_redistribution.html?showall
 
 
 no race baiting stories to push today Bede?

Venerable Bede

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1066 on: October 27, 2008, 03:45:00 pm »
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Originally posted by very sonick:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   
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Originally posted by very sonick:
 
  nice try, but try as you might, McCain is just another politician with crappy dead end policies.
well, if you are correct, congratulations on supporting the same crappy dead end policies- change you can believe in. [/b]
you're welcome! [/b]
i'm so happy you are looking forward to continued increasing food prices, stupid subsidies to farmers who should, instead, be encouraged to grow other crops; no, let's keep paying farmers to grow corn so that we can have corn-based ethanol, a product that uses more energy than it creates; a product that can only be transported via trucks, and not by pipelines.  so glad to see that you simply don't care. . .
OU812

Venerable Bede

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1067 on: October 27, 2008, 03:48:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by pdx pollard:
  no race baiting stories to push today Bede?
my abc news link didn't suffice for you?
 
 i don't know what you mean by "race". . .race is unimportant.  now, if you notice, class is what matters.
OU812

kosmo vinyl

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1068 on: October 27, 2008, 03:49:00 pm »
we can "discuss" back and forth all day long whether or not Obama is really a radical socialist at heart, but i doubt even he can turn the country into a socialist state overnight, unless he has the complete backing of the military, etc...
 
 we can also debate the merits of Obama's and McCain plans for the future...  
 
 however, i will never vote for McCain...  early on in the primary season i at least could appreciate what he had to say, when he was doing some straight talking...  at around the same time obama  came of as entirely to slick and was a bit oft putting...
 
 but then the straight talk bus got bus jacked on the way to the republican convention and he became a sound byte politician spouting core values in opposition to my own... he acted un-presidential during the beginning of the financial meltdown... the reality of his advanced age set in... and i really questioned his ability to make decisions when he added palin to the ticket... palin alone  would cause me not to vote for him, as she absolutely does not represent my beliefs in anyway..
 
 is obama the absolute best candidate there is for president right?  Yes... seeing as there isn't  a governor running with a law degree and phd's in economic on the side who was once a five star general with foreign policy and energy expertise.
 
 like it or not Obama gets my vote because he's clear vision to get this country on the right track...
T.Rex

ratioci nation

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1069 on: October 27, 2008, 03:50:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
 
 i don't know what you mean by "race". . .race is unimportant.  now, if you notice, class is what matters.
oh ok, because i thought a made up story about a white girl being attacked by a big black man was a about race, not class, mea culpa

Bags

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1070 on: October 27, 2008, 03:50:00 pm »
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   
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Originally posted by Bags:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   the difference between what obama is saying and what republicans are supposed to be doing is that republicans don't want government to limit the ability of someone to become wealthy... whereas, obama is quietly all about limiting the ability of people to make money and have government tell people how much money they can make (through potentially crippling tax hikes), then take that money and give it away.
So the loss of $115K to a person making up to $2.5 million limits their ability to 'make money' and is crippling to them as investors and consumers?  Man, I feel bad now, I didn't know things were so tight for millionaires. [/b]
how many jobs could be created with that $115K?  how many jobs are lost because of the absence of that $115K in the market?  that's a $115K lost capital that could be re-invested in a number of private projects.  instead, the government becomes the beneficiary, and becomes more wasteful spending.  let people spend their money, not the government. [/b]
This answer insinuates that a FAMILY (note this is family INCOME, not corporate revenue - so even if the millionaire is a dentist, this is his take home pay) will be taking that 'extra cash' and investing in a company, or in some way that CREATES jobs -- outside of the consumer side trickle, trickle.  Okay, maybe they pay a tutor to get the kids into Brown when you tie this to "new jobs."  You got me.  Job lost.  Trickle, trickle, trickle.  A family making $2.5 mil isn't cancelling all their traveling for the year on this....
 
 And I'm out.

sweetcell

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1071 on: October 27, 2008, 03:56:00 pm »
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   
Quote
Originally posted by kosmo:
   
Quote
Originally posted by manimtired:
  how was it taken out of context?
it was on drudge... [/b]
it's also on  ABC. . .
 
 the plain reading of at least what jake tapper posted is more troubling, at least to me, on his view of the warren court and the constitution. [/b]
"In the interview, Obama went into extensive detail to explain why the courts should not get into that business of 'redistributing' wealth. Obamaâ??s point â?? and what he called a tragedy â?? was that legal victories in the Civil Rights led too many people to rely on the courts to change society for the better. That view is shared by conservative judges and legal scholars across the country.
 
 next non-issue, please.
<sig>

sonickteam2

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1072 on: October 27, 2008, 04:01:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
 i'm so happy you are looking forward to continued increasing food prices, stupid subsidies to farmers who should, instead, be encouraged to grow other crops; no, let's keep paying farmers to grow corn so that we can have corn-based ethanol, a product that uses more energy than it creates; a product that can only be transported via trucks, and not by pipelines.  so glad to see that you simply don't care. . .
I have 2 points to this.
 
  a) while i would rather prices not keep getting higher and i would not like paying for farmers to grow more corn than they need, i also dont feel the need to just drill oil til we're blue in the face pretending that its only a temporary solution while people are padding their pockets and screwing the future. Ethanol is a crappy scenario, one that i dont necesaarily agree with Obama on.  But i think McCain is only politically motivated on the issue, somerthing that would probably change if he became president.
 
  2) I do care, bede.  But since i am not allowed to vote in this country, i do not feel the need to kiss one of these mens' ass.  McCain is an old lying wannabe maverick who likes to think he'll take on anyone but only on his way to the top .... which he would achieve next week, then all of those meaningful promises become meaningless.  Obama is a young liberal mind perhaps with socialist tendencies (bringing me back to my canadian heritage!).  His policies wont work either.  so it comes down to this.
 
  the comprimised policies of Obama's look better to me than the comprimised ones of McCain.
 
   but if i had to vote...well....

Venerable Bede

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1073 on: October 27, 2008, 04:01:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by kosmo:
  we can "discuss" back and forth all day long whether or not Obama is really a radical socialist at heart, but i doubt even he can turn the country into a socialist state overnight, unless he has the complete backing of the military, etc...
 
 we can also debate the merits of Obama's and McCain plans for the future...  
 
 however, i will never vote for McCain...  early on in the primary season i at least could appreciate what he had to say, when he was doing some straight talking...  at around the same time obama  came of as entirely to slick and was a bit oft putting...
 
 but then the straight talk bus got bus jacked on the way to the republican convention and he became a sound byte politician spouting core values in opposition to my own... he acted un-presidential during the beginning of the financial meltdown... the reality of his advanced age set in... and i really questioned his ability to make decisions when he added palin to the ticket... palin alone  would cause me not to vote for him, as she absolutely does not represent my beliefs in anyway..
 
 is obama the absolute best candidate there is for president right?  Yes... seeing as there isn't  a governor running with a law degree and phd's in economic on the side who was once a five star general with foreign policy and energy expertise.
 
 like it or not Obama gets my vote because he's clear vision to get this country on the right track...
kosmo, i appreciate your candor and i do not necessarily disagree with your statements on john mccain.  
 
 like you and mccain, obama does not represent my beliefs or views on government policies, nor do i support or believe in his clear vision. couple that with a Dem. controlled congress, i honestly doubt his ability to either say no or stand up to congress where and when it's needed.  we'll see whether he is a jimmy carter, unable to rein in a dem congress, or an lbj, forcing his will onto congress. . .i'm inclined to believe he'll be like the former.
OU812

kosmo vinyl

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1074 on: October 27, 2008, 04:03:00 pm »
i still can't believe that the mccain went with the story as how drudge presented it... i don't even think drudge was responsible for the youtube posting... looked like it had already been uploaded several times on you tube, with the same out of context commentary added...
 
 i knew listening to what was in the clip wasn't the entire interview...  
 
 really do we want as president someone so desperate to be elected be goes with something posted youtube...
T.Rex

Venerable Bede

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1075 on: October 27, 2008, 04:04:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by pdx pollard:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
 
 i don't know what you mean by "race". . .race is unimportant.  now, if you notice, class is what matters.
oh ok, because i thought a made up story about a white girl being attacked by a big black man was a about race, not class, mea culpa [/b]
it didn't matter to me what race the person was. . .i simply pointed it out because it was an obama supporter attacking a mccain supporter- a point that callat sure understood.  since she's a liar, i hope the authorities convict her for all sorts of misdemeanors and felonies befitting the crime.
OU812

kosmo vinyl

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1076 on: October 27, 2008, 04:10:00 pm »
Stevens guilty on all counts
 
 WASHINGTON (CNN) â?? A jury Monday found U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens of Alaska guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on Senate disclosure forms.
 
 ***
 
 and did you hear about the 2.8 million dollar road built from his house to his favorite restaurant?
T.Rex

ratioci nation

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1077 on: October 27, 2008, 04:12:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by kosmo:
   early on in the primary season i at least could appreciate what he had to say, when he was doing some straight talking...
It was long before this that he changed, I even gave money to the man in 2000, which means I still get constant fund raising appeals from him, but he was damaged by that campaign and I think really believes that the only way he can win is to kiss up to those that were bent to destroy him in 2000.  That more than anything shows somebody who will do anything to win, whether or not Obama is like that I dont care.  Obama is my choice due to policy, no matter what the mankies and julians of the world have to say.  I really believe that presidential elections are more about the government that the will be created by the person we elect, rather than the person themselves.  Which is why Hillary would never have worked for me because she would bring in the same kind of useless dems that make up the leadership of congress, and McCain would never work because he is too close with too many people on the right now.  None of these candidates are my first choice which is why its so frustrating that this board makes everything so personal.

ratioci nation

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1078 on: October 27, 2008, 04:15:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  it didn't matter to me what race the person was. . .i simply pointed it out because it was an obama supporter attacking a mccain supporter- a point that callat sure understood.  since she's a liar, i hope the authorities convict her for all sorts of misdemeanors and felonies befitting the crime.
I didn't think it mattered to you what the race of the person was, which is why it bothered me that you chose to throw it out there like that, and that you didnt even acknowledge (unless I somehow missed it) how fucked up it was.  Because cleary the intent of the screwed up chick was to make it look like a race issue.

Venerable Bede

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Re: once again the jokes write themselves...
« Reply #1079 on: October 27, 2008, 04:29:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by very sonick:
  I have 2 points to this.
 
  a) while i would rather prices not keep getting higher and i would not like paying for farmers to grow more corn than they need, i also dont feel the need to just drill oil til we're blue in the face pretending that its only a temporary solution while people are padding their pockets and screwing the future. Ethanol is a crappy scenario, one that i dont necesaarily agree with Obama on.  But i think McCain is only politically motivated on the issue, somerthing that would probably change if he became president.
 
  2) I do care, bede.  But since i am not allowed to vote in this country, i do not feel the need to kiss one of these mens' ass.  McCain is an old lying wannabe maverick who likes to think he'll take on anyone but only on his way to the top .... which he would achieve next week, then all of those meaningful promises become meaningless.  Obama is a young liberal mind perhaps with socialist tendencies (bringing me back to my canadian heritage!).  His policies wont work either.  so it comes down to this.
 
  the comprimised policies of Obama's look better to me than the comprimised ones of McCain.
 
   but if i had to vote...well....
again, how do you not differentiate between ethanol the product and subsidies supporting the viability of ethanol?  we can go back and forth on whether or not mccain said this or that about ethanol, but the facts still remain that he does not support subsidizing ethanol.
 
 as for oil. . .we can keep ignoring what oil we have here (and, not to mention, the benefit of our own environmental regulations), or we can allow other countries (perhaps less friendly to us, and certainly with far weaker environmental regulations) to drill.  for over 10 years now, opponents have said it would take 10 years for delivery to have an impact. . .that oil 10 years ago sure would have been helpful earlier this year, no?  nevertheless, i also think that we have to figure out how to use less oil- domestically produced oil is simply one step in weaning ourselves off of foreign oil (although, i might add, we would continue to receive oil from countries like canada and mexico).  isn't it better to have some additional amount of oil come from domestic sources than our current already small amount?
 
 we do need to figure out new sources of energy. . .but it is simply infeasible, technologically and economically, to do any of that right now, or even in the next 5-7 years.  we can follow the pickens plan, and have everyone run on natural gas (and continue to line his pockets), or we can try to move things to electricity (here's the problem- we'll have to build more power plants, and renewables ain't gonna be able to meet that new load). . .or some other form of energy that hasn't been figured out yet. . .
 
 the question, and one of the few differences between obama and mccain on energy, is who do you want funding the research?  obama says spend more government money; mccain says, let private interests do it.  my take on it all is, i know there are people doing this research, without any government subsidy or funding. . .if they want to spend their money on it already, why should the government using our tax dollar give them more money to do what they are already doing?
OU812