Tour de Force

[mankie]

Markie is also forgetting the all powerful $$$$$$. Brit, and most European athletes for that matter, have to train before and after they go to work or school and then on weekends. They don't get the sponsorship money or the endorsment royalties which enables them to be able to train full time...then there's also the steroids of course.

[Celeste]

Originally posted by mankie:
  Markie is also forgetting the all powerful $$$$$$. Brit, and most European athletes for that matter, have to train before and after they go to work or school and then on weekends. They don't get the sponsorship money or the endorsment royalties which enables them to be able to train full time...then there's also the steroids of course.

three cheers for capitalism and corporate sponsorhsip!

[ggw]

Well a Dane won in '96 and an Irish guy in '87 (is there altitude in Ireland) and plenty of Dutch have placed.
 
 You gotta feel sorry for Jan Ullrich, second place in four of the last six years.

[thirsty moore]

If only he didn't have to practice before and after school.
 
 

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 You gotta feel sorry for Jan Ullrich, second place in four of the last six years.

[ggw]

Originally posted by mankie:
  Markie is also forgetting the all powerful $$$$$$. Brit, and most European athletes for that matter, have to train before and after they go to work or school and then on weekends. They don't get the sponsorship money or the endorsment royalties which enables them to be able to train full time...then there's also the steroids of course.

Armstrong has been tested more than any other athlete alive.  It's the wops, krauts, and frogs who get pinched for juicing up.
 
 And Europeans have a huge advantage in cycling sponsorship.  It's really only since Armstrong has been so successful that sponsorship money has gone into the sport in the US.

[markie]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Well a Dane won in '96 and an Irish guy in '87 (is there altitude in Ireland) and plenty of Dutch have placed.
 

all winners have trained at altitude since the 60s. Although the use of EPO (erythropoeitin) and blood doping has reduced its importance.
 
 Thats why there is a 50% maximum hematocrit level (red blood cells)

[ggw]

Originally posted by markie:
   

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Well a Dane won in '96 and an Irish guy in '87 (is there altitude in Ireland) and plenty of Dutch have placed.
 

all winners have trained at altitude since the 60s. Although the use of EPO (erythropoeitin) and blood doping has reduced its importance.
 
 Thats why there is a 50% maximum hematocrit level (red blood cells) [/b]

But not having a high altitude in your country is not a barrier to winning.

[mankie]

Actually, I'm reading a book at the moment in which it addresses the training at altitude issue. Basically it's a load of bollocks. Yes you can train at altitude to get the body used to working efficiently with less oxygen by producing more red blood cells, but withing 72 hours of breathing at a lower attitude the body goes right back to were it was.
 
 In fact, it can have the opposite effect than desired on many athletes, because you are unable to train as hard as you would at sea level so you can't push the body as much so the training is less effective.
 
 Interesting...no?

[ggw]

Originally posted by mankie:
 
 Interesting...no?

What?  The stuff about the oxygen?  Or the fact that you're actually reading a book?

[mankie]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 

 Armstrong has been tested more than any other athlete alive.  It's the wops, krauts, and frogs who get pinched for juicing up.
 I KNOW...I WAS BEING SARCASTIC.
 
 And Europeans have a huge advantage in cycling sponsorship.  It's really only since Armstrong has been so successful that sponsorship money has gone into the sport in the US.
 WHICH IS WHY ARMSTRONG HAS BEEN ABLE TO TRAIN FULL TIME TO BECOME WINNER 5 YEARS RUNNING. THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT.
 
  [/b]

[markie]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  But not having a high altitude in your country is not a barrier to winning.

It is a help though. Especially if as Mankie pointed out your training can only take place around work.
 
 It helps get you to a higher level of fitness, at the start, which then gives you a leg up into a team and the drug taking and the fame and glory.
 
 There have been plenty of very succesful Columbian cyclists, have their not?

[mankie]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 

 What?  The stuff about the oxygen?  Or the fact that you're actually reading a book?
 
 [/b]

I actually have two books on the go at the moment...I'm not as stooopid as markie looks you know.

[G.Love]

Originally posted by mankie:
  They don't get the sponsorship money or the endorsment royalties which enables them to be able to train full time...

isn't it interesting that the US Postal Service sponsors Armstrong, but yet, fiscally, they are always in the red which results in an increase to the cost of the postage stamp?
 I figure they are paying for Armstrong and 7 other riders, plus the coaches and support crews, year round - including travel, lodging and food. I wonder what the cost of that is per year?

[ggw]

WHICH IS WHY ARMSTRONG HAS BEEN ABLE TO TRAIN FULL TIME TO BECOME WINNER 5 YEARS RUNNING. THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT.
 

Europeans tend to be more into cycling -- there are clubs and races everywhere.  Not so in the US.  Moreover, the number of professional cyclists (i.e., those who cycle full-time) is much, much greater in Europe than in the US.  And sponsorships are far more plentiful in Europe.  
 
 All the above is traditionally true.  Only in the last 4-5 years, as Armstrong has been winning, has the US begun to catch up.  Nonetheless, Armstrong notwithstanding, the Europeans still dominate the sport and remain better equipped (sponsorship money, etc...).  So I don't think I proved your point.
 
 He has won five years running because he has been the best cyclist five years running -- period.

[mankie]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  [QUOTE
 
 He has won five years running because he has been the best cyclist five years running -- period.
 
 

You are forgetting the one big advantage he has...he doesn't have to worry about crushing his nuts on the seat!