Author Topic: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?  (Read 9262 times)

930needsbettersound

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2004, 10:32:00 pm »
Thanks for the professional response twangirl.  I'm not going to get into the pissing contest that you've started, but I guess I'll take your assessment of the technical problems of the show since you seemed to be "in the know."  Though you didn't say how or why you know these facts.
 
 I guess you were too busy backstage accepting awards from your peers, but unfortunately the technical aspects of a concert are only part of the equation.  There is a audience as well.  Something else the music industry has forgotten about.  I know the Walkmen as well as I know you, but I was able to recognize a home town crowd.  A home coming, home town crowd.  Ask some of your buddies checking ID's of grandfathers at the door.
 
 It was obivous to anyone with a soul that the lead singer busting his balls out for the home coming crowd for two opening songs, only to find out after the fact that nobody could even hear you, would be a major downer.  Despite the fact that you've been performing musicians for well over 10 years.  The fact that guess what, more shit happenend.  Didn't help things.  In retrospect I love the band more than ever now, because it proved they cared about audience.
 
 You on the other hand, I'm not so sure.  There is a countless number of jobs in the world, technical or otherwise that are performed by a countless number of people behind the scenes.  Unknown.  Unrecognized.  Unthanked.  If you're looking for thank you's in your job go hand out medicine in a third world country.  Otherwise go home knowing that you've performed your job the best you can.
 
 In this case, sorry it didn't happen.  I've gotten off the couch to go to enough shows in my lifetime to know there ain't nothing wrong with stopping a show to make sure everything is alright.  For the band AND the audience.  And it seemed like a lot wasn't alright.
 
 As for your run down of the many ways the band can screw up the audio at the 9:30 Club.  Well, I guess that's informative and priceless.  Debating with you the fine points of that and all the snide comments you made would be a waste of your time and mine.  But if it helps you in the future, thanks for all the hard work you and your fellow engineers perform day in and day out.  Just remember, the audience is listening.

markie

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2004, 10:47:00 pm »
Thanks for the post twangirl. It was very informative.
 
 For the record, from what I heard of the walkmen last night, they sounded much much better than the previous time I had seen them in New York.
 
 I am not entirely sure what some people expect from a $12 live experience. The unpredictability is surely part of the charm.

dutch tickler

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2004, 08:23:00 pm »
Weird War had a couple of good songs, but in the end they sound like they are one synthesizer away from being an 80's one hit wonder novelty act.  I would like them alot more without the introduction to philosophy stage banter.
 
 The Walkmen were a bit of a letdown, especially when compared to their last show in DC at the Black Cat, which was one of the best concerts I have seen.

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2004, 08:28:00 pm »
I used to have one of the original Walkmans
   <img src="http://www.pocketcalculatorshow.com/walkman/sony/graphics/wm-5.jpg" alt=" - " />
 and it kicked Ipods ass!
 
 The sound was grrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat!

RainBoots

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2004, 04:19:00 pm »
I was really worried for the Walkmen's bass guitarist when he couldn't get the amps workin' or something. Yah, there were some problems, but I liked it anyway. Just be more careful next time, ok robot monkeys?
 
 The the lead singer of Weird War? Darn entertaining. I wish that guy was my brother, but I sorta don't. He's cool.

Sir HC

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2004, 03:48:00 pm »
I was told I should check this thread out.  
 
 First, Twangirl is in the know.  She is omnipotent as far as the 9:30 is concerned.  As to the way things can go wrong with sound, I can give you another 20 if you would like, 30 if I spend some time thinking.  Pretty much, anything and everything can and will go wrong, and there is so much going on that you can not have 100% confidence that everything will work right every night.  Bands and their crews are well aware of this and deal with it.  Why do you think they have spare guitars, snares, and amps?  
 
 Here is the path from his microphone to the FOH board at the 9:30:
 
 Mic
 cable
 sub-snake
 patch panel/splitter
 house snake
 FOH
 
 Not that simple a path, and often the cables are reused and just patched down at the splitter so if that has not been changed then you get no vocals (or whatever was in that channel).  Sometimes you can quickly find the channel that the mispatched line is coming out and run it there until you correct the problem.  To keep this from happening you often will see a line check before the band comes out.  And even then something can go wrong in that 5 minutes.  Since it was not a patch problem, all you can do is find the problem and fix it ASAP.  Not an easy thing to do.  
 
 I work sound at the 9:30 on occasion (was not there that night), and wonder what you mean by vocals lost in a sea of garbled sound and the bass so high or low, blah blah blah.  What shows was this the case at, what vocals, when?  Details are needed if you wish the problem to be fixed.  For all I know you were standing in the one spot that sucks (right against the stage), and there is nothing anyone can do to fix the problem.  So, give some information and we can see what the problem might be and how to correct it.
 
 That said, many times it is the engineers with the bands, and sometimes their whole PA that is in the club.  We do very little with the actual sound those nights, and still people will bitch that we did something wrong.

redsock

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2004, 04:51:00 pm »
I have seen many a show in many a dump with a sound system crappier than my computer speakers. Far and away, the 930 sound is the best I've heard, and I can't remember the last time I commented badly on the sound there. i'm sure I have, but since I don't remember, it obviously wasn't that bad. Go bitch someplace else...they had some problems, get over it. Catch 'em again the next time they're in town. Jeez...
 
 And Twangirl wasn't trying to start something with you, she was just trying to tell you the straight deal, and in her own way, to stop bitching. No need to cop an attitude just cause you missed two songs.

mankie

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2004, 05:17:00 pm »
One of the differences between great bands and crappy ones is how they handle the situation during equipment failures, which happen to all of them at some point.
 
 Peter Murphy lost all the sound apart from his microphone one time I saw him...he looked really ruffled but simply picked up an accoustic guitar and kept going 'unplugged' until it could be fixed then once it was, just apologized but said everything is back online and continued the show....a professional way to handle it.
 
 The Waterboys at 930 lost the amplification for the fiddle last time they played the 930. Mike Scott simply made a joke about it can't be the Waterboys without a fiddler then they took a moment to sort the problem out while Mike Scott chatted to the crowd....another professional way to handle it.
 
 Shit happens, it's how they handle the shit that happens that makes the difference to me.

chaz

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2004, 06:01:00 pm »
I think 9:30 should implement a $$ back guarantee policy on all ticket purchases.  Don't all venues have something like that?
 
 I want my money back!

Sir HC

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2004, 06:19:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by chaz:
  I think 9:30 should implement a $$ back guarantee policy on all ticket purchases.  Don't all venues have something like that?
 
 I want my money back!
But should it be pro-rated based on the portion of the show you watched?  To be safe they will have you wait by the window outside until the show is over so that they can calculate what percent you watched.

mankie

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2004, 06:21:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by chaz:
  I think 9:30 should implement a $$ back guarantee policy on all ticket purchases.  Don't all venues have something like that?
 
 I want my money back!
No offense but that's stupid.
 
 That's like saying if the band don't play your favorite song you want a refund, or if you go to a sporting event and your favorite team loses you want your money back.
 
 If you don't want the chances of something going wrong at a LIVE PERFORMANCE, then stay home and watch MTV.
 
 It's LIVE that's part of the experience of a live performance.

redsock

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2004, 06:44:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mankie:
   
Quote
Originally posted by chaz:
  I think 9:30 should implement a $$ back guarantee policy on all ticket purchases.  Don't all venues have something like that?
 
 I want my money back!
No offense but that's stupid.
 
 That's like saying if the band don't play your favorite song you want a refund, or if you go to a sporting event and your favorite team loses you want your money back.
 
 If you don't want the chances of something going wrong at a LIVE PERFORMANCE, then stay home and watch MTV.
 
 It's LIVE that's part of the experience of a live performance. [/b]
I think chaz was kidding. Or at least I hope he was.

mankie

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2004, 06:46:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by redsock:
   
Quote
[/b]
I think chaz was kidding. Or at least I hope he was. [/QB]
With a name like Chaz...you can never be sure.
   ;)

Justin Tonation

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2004, 06:52:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mankie:
  One of the differences between great bands and crappy ones is how they handle the situation during equipment failures, which happen to all of them at some point.
This reminds me of when I saw T-Bone Burnett on F St. in the late 80s. He was solo acoustic. As he tried to play there was a loud thump that repeated unrhythmically. It threw him off completely, as it would just about anybody. He unplugged and leaned from the stage as far as he could over the crowd and played. He never left the stage while the sound was fixed.
 
 Also, I heard a U2 bootleg on which the sequencer at the beginning of "Bad" ragged out. Bono said "Oh, that's really bad..." He then told a joke while it was fixed (no, I don't remember the joke).
😐 🎶

jpbelmondo

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Re: The Walkmen. Bad audio. Who is to blame?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2004, 07:04:00 pm »
Another professional response: the PA went out at a Replacements show at the Tower Theater in Philly, so the band just turned the monitors around to face the audience and played two quieter songs (Nightclub Jitters and Cruella de Ville) until the problem was fixed.  And then Paul invited the audience to get a drink with the band at Brownie's, a bar down the street, after the show.