Pumpkins vs. Nirvana

[mankie]

Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
 
 The White Stripes, get my vote, as they are more organic, having worked they way up the ladder much like Nirvana.

What ladder did Nirvana climb up? EMPTY V put them right up there on the pedestal. Without that video for teenage spirit, I doubt they would have ever made a name for themselves outside of Seattle or the college campuses around the country.

[grotty]

Originally posted by Bollocks:
     

Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
 
 The White Stripes, get my vote, as they are more organic, having worked they way up the ladder much like Nirvana.

What ladder did Nirvana climb up? EMPTY V put them right up there on the pedestal. Without that video for teenage spirit, I doubt they would have ever made a name for themselves outside of Seattle or the college campuses around the country. [/b]

You are such the contrarian. Rhett with a rosbif accent.  I don't know how you can stand living here since you hate American sports, politics and music so.        
 
 Again - even MTV was different then. Transitioning yes - but still better & still occasionally decent. I'd even argue that that period was MTVs finest. They were actually playing some decent *music* (see original 120 minutes). For everyone who yearns for the old old school MTV - are you kidding me? Look back at what they were playing near inception. Really any video they could get their hands on. It may be the biggest batch of crap EVER. Talk about artificially inflating a bands exposure - popularity - etc. Mike & the freakin' Mechanics?!?!?!?!?!!?

[chaz]

Silly me....when Bleach and the first Mudhoney lp were out I though Mudhoney would be the first band to make it big from Seattle.  I remember arguing with a guy in my dorm about which band would get huge.  He swore it would be nirvana.  This was in 89 or 90....when exactly did Nevermind come out anyway?  About a year later me and some friends went to a shitty local club in Richmond called Twisters.  It was Monday and we went every Monday cuz it was free to get in that night and see the bands.  Smashing Pumkins were playing and we'd never even heard of them.  To this day definately the most surprising show I'd ever seen and maybe the best small club show I've ever seen.  Their sound was just so huge...we all went out and bought Gish in the next few days.
 
 I haven't really added anything here...just thinking back.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by grotty:
    I don't know how you can stand living here since you hate American sports, politics and music so.    

the dental insurance.
 
 
 and to be closer to Canada!

[grotty]

"we went every Monday cuz it was free to get in that night and see the bands. Smashing Pumkins were playing and we'd never even heard of them. To this day definately the most surprising show I'd ever seen and maybe the best small club show I've ever seen. Their sound was just so huge...we all went out and bought Gish in the next few days."
 
 Chaz - you just described the exact reason why I - and most others on this board I suspect - go to shows. It's for magic moments like this.
 
 You've given me goose bumps  

[mankie]

Originally posted by grotty:
   

[/b]

[/qb]

You are such the contrarian. Rhett with a rosbif accent.  I don't know how you can stand living here since you hate American sports, politics and music so.          
 
 Again - even MTV was different then. Transitioning yes - but still better & still occasionally decent. I'd even argue that that period was MTVs finest. They were actually playing some decent *music* (see original 120 minutes). For everyone who yearns for the old old school MTV - are you kidding me? Look back at what they were playing near inception. Really any video they could get their hands on. It may be the biggest batch of crap EVER. Talk about artificially inflating a bands exposure - popularity - etc. Mike & the freakin' Mechanics?!?!?!?!?!!? [/QB][/QUOTE]
 
 At what time of the night was 120 minutes on? Hardly primetime now was it? I know, I used to stay up to watch it back then.
 
 I just do one of these   :p

[mankie]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   

Originally posted by grotty:
    I don't know how you can stand living here since you hate American sports, politics and music so.    

the dental insurance.
 
 
 and to be closer to Canada! [/b]

Don't forget to get cheap Canadian prescription drugs!

[grotty]

Originally posted by Bollocks:
 
 I just do one of these    :roll:   whenever I hear this shit about Cobain and his music and he was all about the music man, and didn't care about fame or fortune...BULLSHIT!!The fact there are Nirvana VIDEOS contradicts that. God bless him for making a mint out of his mediocre drivvel, but don't try to make him out as some musical folk hero when all he is is nothing more than an unwashed member of N'Sync.
 
 

How about some proof - facts - etc. rather than just conjecture and opinion. To compare Nirvana in any way to a manufactured boy band a la N Sync is just way beyond absurdity.
 
 And for the record - just how and why is making a video ANY different from making a record in the first place? Using that analogy - all ANY band should ever do is play gigs.
 
 And in Cobain's case, maybe best intentions turned out to not deliver what he really wanted and needed. I think that's why there's a saying - Be careful what you wish for.
 
 And finally...where you going?

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by grotty:
  all ANY band should ever do is play gigs.
 

I'm fine with that.

[mankie]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   

Originally posted by grotty:
  all ANY band should ever do is play gigs.
 

I'm fine with that. [/b]

And record the gigs so you can buy what you just heard instead of the over-produced studio stuff.

[grotty]

Originally posted by Bollocks:
   

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   

Originally posted by grotty:
  all ANY band should ever do is play gigs.
 

I'm fine with that. [/b]

And record the gigs so you can buy what you just heard instead of the over-produced studio stuff. [/b]

And maybe a video of the show too!

[mankie]

Originally posted by grotty:
   

[/b]

How about some proof - facts - etc. rather than just conjecture and opinion. To compare Nirvana in any way to a manufactured boy band a la N Sync is just way beyond absurdity.
 
 And for the record - just how and why is making a video ANY different from making a record in the first place? Using that analogy - all ANY band should ever do is play gigs.
 
 And in Cobain's case, maybe best intentions turned out to not deliver what he really wanted and needed. I think that's why there's a saying - Be careful what you wish for.
 
 And finally...where you going? [/QB]

My comments were simply my opinion, and if we were in a court of law I might make the effort to produce supporting evidence...but we're not and I don't care enough anyway. BTW, I was comparing Nirvana to N'Sync in regards to marketing, not manufacturing.
 
 
 Ireland.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by Bollocks:
 
 Ireland.

No wonder you're moving to IREland, mankie.
 
  look in the dictionary
 
 
 Ire.
 abbr.
 Ireland.
 
 
 ire    
 n.
 Anger; wrath. See Synonyms at anger.
 
 
 The Land of Anger.
 
 seems like the right place for you          

[vansmack]

Sorry for starting the topic then running off - I'm on west coast time, you know?
 
 I too thought Mudhoney would be the first to make it big.  But, the lack of a catchy video did them in.
 
 I too think that Nirvana gets credit for revolutionizing music by being at the right time and the right place, not by being the best at what they did.  They are far better then the copiers already mentioned (Candlebox, Bush, STP, etc. though I am guilty of seeing all of them live at some point).    
 
 I heard Nirvana on Sunday night LA radio long before I saw them on MTV, but the instant I saw the video, I knew things were going to change.  We live in a picture driven world now.
 
 The industry was devoid of anything with substance at the time and had completely burned out on the hair bands.  If I remember correctly, the hair bands were making hits with their one acoustic track, and folks were buying the albums because of that track and were ignoring the rest of the crap.  If I could have a dollar for everytime I've gone through somebody's collection and found Extreme: Pornographity in their collection and asked them to name two songs off of it and they couldn't.  And those that could would say "Cold Hearted" with "More than Words" and not a single person could ever answer a third song.  
 
 The modern rock stations that had survived on the new wave eighties were on the brink of BQing.  I remember turning off KROQ somewhere around 1986/7 when that song "I wanna be a Cowboy, and you can be my cowgirl" by Boy's Don't Cry Cry and thinking this is the end of radio as I know it.  Metal bands were in, new wave was out and I was listening to classic rock.
 
 Nirvana put a picture to the movement, a brilliant picture at that, and no matter what you envision is being rebelled against in that video, you put it with something.  I put it with the music industry.
 
 So while I agree that no matter what the Pumpkins could have done, despite being far superior musically, they didn't have the timing or the pictures that the media wanted to put to the movement and will never be held in the same accolades, even had Cobain not killed himself and Billy did.  So I agree that MTV2 runs the Pumpkins 10 Year Anniversary and not MTV.

[godsshoeshine]

first of all, wasn't nirvana from olympia, not seattle? if we are counting them as the same place, either beat happening or sleater-kinney is/was the best seattle band. if you want to blame anyone for nirvana, blame calvin