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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: sonickteam2 on December 18, 2008, 05:03:30 pm
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http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/12/14/2008-12-14_governor_paterson_proposes_obesity_tax_a-1.html
Governor Paterson proposes 'Obesity Tax,' a tax on non-diet sodas
BY GLENN BLAIN and KENNETH LOVETT
DAILY NEWS ALBANY BUREAU
Sunday, December 14th 2008, 11:37 PM
Gov. Paterson, as part of a $121 billion budget to be unveiled Tuesday, will propose an "obesity tax" of about 15% on nondiet drinks.
This means a Diet Coke might sell for a $1 - even as the same size bottle of its calorie-rich alter ego would go for $1.15.
Paterson's budget also calls for a 3% cut in education spending, a $620-a-year tuition hike at SUNY and a $600 increase at CUNY - and about $3.5 billion in health care cuts, a source said.
The Democratic governor will not call for a broad-based income tax boost, but he will push to restore the sales tax on clothing and footwear.
The drastic belt-tightening comes as lawmakers struggle to close a $15 billion deficit this year and next.
"It's painful to make these decisions," Paterson said Sunday.
State employees again will be asked to forgo their 3% raises next year and defer five days' pay until they leave their jobs, the source said. In all, Paterson will propose about $9 billion in cuts, $4 billion in new taxes and fees, and $1.5 billion in nonrecurring revenue, a second source said.
The so-called obesity tax would generate an estimated $404 million a year. Milk, juice, diet soda and bottled water would be exempt from the tax.
"I'll just buy less," said Victor Lopez, 55, of Manhattan, as he drank a Coke at a midtown Subway store.
"I don't like to buy Diet Coke," said Amaury Garcia, 16, who works at a flower shop in Penn Station. "I'll just not buy any sodas if it goes up."
Public health advocates welcomed news of the tax, saying it would help the fight against childhood obesity.
"Raising the price of this liquid candy will put children and teens on a path to a healthier diet," said Elie Ward of the American Academy of Pediatrics of New York State.
The Paterson administration also announced steps yesterday to expand the state's social services net, including a 30% increase in welfare payments over three years starting January 2010, increased money for food banks and expanded access to the state's Family Health Plus program.
Paterson also hopes to make it easier for people to enroll in Medicaid by eliminating face-to-face interviews and fingerprinting requirements.
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Lame idea. I'm pretty sure I'm the skinniest guy on this board and I've never touched a diet soda, mostly because I've never had to and it tastes like crap.
Now tie it to a scale or BMI and I'll sign on.
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i dont know, i bet manimtired is mighty scrawny.
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Yeah, but he's 19. Lets see how he holds up when he's almost 35.
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I want a flat fat-tax, none of this soda nonsense. Everyone gets on a scale at a government office and every pound over 105 for women and 165 for men is a $250 liability. We'd become the greatest civilization on earth.
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;)
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I want a flat fat-tax, none of this soda nonsense. Everyone gets on a scale at a government office and every pound over 105 for women and 165 for men is a $250 liability. We'd become the greatest civilization on earth.
right, because someone who's 5'1" should be expected to weigh as much as someone who's 6'5". with my build, 165 would be unhealthy. but what's health in the face of fabulousness!
smackie's BMI proposal was much better, although an actual body fat measurement would be best.
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The other thing that's lame about is that there is evidence out there that says diet soda's are probably just as bad as regular soda in regard to obesity, since the sugar additive that's in diet soda does not send the same signal to the brain to tell it to stop consuming, which you get from sugar- so, you end up with people over-consuming diet soda thinking, "hey, there's no calories," which does nothing towards combating obesity.
this same concept is evident in "fat-free" products- just because something is "fat free" or "no calories" doesn't mean you can't get fat from it, consumption is something only you can control.
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i'm with julian here
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Did you see what venerable did there?
The eloquence in that first statement?
Holy shit, he used a capital letter.
I've seen it all.
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i'm with julian here
Are we adjusting for breast size? Developing a ratio for breast to ass?
I can't sign off on that proposal until these things are worked out.
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OK, but how can you overconsume diet soda if it has 0 calories? A billion bottles at zero calories = 0 calories. If it makes for a less boring zero-calorie-consumption experience, how is this not better than drinking liquid sugar in terms of keeping weight down?
Now, if people are thinking that diet soda means that they can over-consume other, caloric items, that's hardly the fault of diet soda, signals to the brain or no. Seems like a tiny bit of nutritional literacy would be a hell of a lot more powerful than any mysterious brain signals.
The other thing that's lame about is that there is evidence out there that says diet soda's are probably just as bad as regular soda in regard to obesity, since the sugar additive that's in diet soda does not send the same signal to the brain to tell it to stop consuming, which you get from sugar- so, you end up with people over-consuming diet soda thinking, "hey, there's no calories," which does nothing towards combating obesity.
this same concept is evident in "fat-free" products- just because something is "fat free" or "no calories" doesn't mean you can't get fat from it, consumption is something only you can control.
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The other thing that's lame about is that there is evidence out there that says diet soda's are probably just as bad as regular soda in regard to obesity, since the sugar additive that's in diet soda does not send the same signal to the brain to tell it to stop consuming, which you get from sugar- so, you end up with people over-consuming diet soda thinking, "hey, there's no calories," which does nothing towards combating obesity.
this same concept is evident in "fat-free" products- just because something is "fat free" or "no calories" doesn't mean you can't get fat from it, consumption is something only you can control.
could you please point me to some of this evidence? i'm not quite following what you're saying, maybe this evidence will help. drinking zero calorie soda all day long = consuming zero calories. my personal experience tells me that diet sodas actually help fight obesity since they fill the stomach and give the physical sensation of having a full belly. a diet coke totally helps me plow through those noon-to-2:00 meetings, otherwise i'd be having hunger pangs.
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OK, but how can you overconsume diet soda if it has 0 calories? A billion bottles at zero calories = 0 calories. If it makes for a less boring zero-calorie-consumption experience, how is this not better than drinking liquid sugar in terms of keeping weight down?
Now, if people are thinking that diet soda means that they can over-consume other, caloric items, that's hardly the fault of diet soda, signals to the brain or no. Seems like a tiny bit of nutritional literacy would be a hell of a lot more powerful than any mysterious brain signals.
to a certain extent you are correct, however, because you continue to consume the diet soda, featuring an artificial sweetner that, while containing zero calories, also tricks your brain into thinking you haven't had enough sweet stuff. what that then leads to is your body not thinking it's had enough sugar, leading to further consumption of either, said diet soda (while there may be zero calories, you still are consuming an excess of liquid) or something else to satisfy the urging for something sweet. in other words, even though you are getting zero calories from the soda, the body still needs something to satisfy its need for sugar (i.e., produce insulin), and those products contain calories.
While the desire to reduce ones calories is laudable, deciding what to consume solely on the basis of calorie content is probably less healthful (because artificial sweetners are just that, artificial) than knowing what you are eating and moderating that consumption. Yes, I read waaaay too much Michael Pollan.
Oh, and I hate the taste of diet sodas. . .gimme a tall 10 oz bottle of mexican Coke. . .that's some good fizz!
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He didn't ask you to repeat yourself, he said point me to some evidence.
What Venerable is saying is that he read it in Michael Pollan's book. I can tell you, I've tried the Omnivore's Dilemma twice, and havn't made much headway.
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could you please point me to some of this evidence? i'm not quite following what you're saying, maybe this evidence will help. drinking zero calorie soda all day long = consuming zero calories. my personal experience tells me that diet sodas actually help fight obesity since they fill the stomach and give the physical sensation of having a full belly. a diet coke totally helps me plow through those noon-to-2:00 meetings, otherwise i'd be having hunger pangs.
This article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118523105635575469.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118523105635575469.html) notes:
"Do unhealthy people drink diet soda? Does diet soda make people unhealthy?
Those are some of the questions raised by a surprising new study that links consumption of soft drinks -- both the sugared and diet variety -- with a higher risk for a range of obesity-related health problems. High consumption of regular soda, which contains about 150 calories a can, has previously been linked with obesity and diabetes in kids and teens, as well as high blood pressure in adults. But the finding that diet-soda drinkers faced similar health risks is unexpected, because the zero-calorie drinks are often touted as a way to help people prevent weight gain and related health problems."
and i don't think that liquids have the effect you think they do on how full you feel- i had found an article about that, but i can't find it right now.
anyway. . .the point is that its the other effects of diet soda on the body that is the problem, not necessarily the caloric consumption.
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while that article contained some of the taxes - it left half the meat off of it. there will also be a tax to go to the movies, to see sports events (which arent inflated enough apparently) and also an 'e-tax' or is that 'i-tax' which will tax your itunes downloads. Im not sure what else im leaving off the list, but its all consuming.
and for today's news:
Fare hike horror OK?d; next, last stop Albany
Enraged rider arrested as he tries to hurl shoe at MTA chief?s head
by patrick arden / metro new york
> email this to a friend
DEC 18, 2008
Inspired by a now-famous Iraqi reporter, an angry subway rider reached for his shoe at yesterday?s MTA board meeting, just before the agency approved a 2009 budget with service cuts and a whopping 23 percent fare hike.
?Where?s Elliot Sander?? asked Stephen Millies, 54, an Amtrak worker from Jackson Heights who noted the MTA boss took home more than $300,000 last year. ?This shoe?s for you.?
He was led away in handcuffs without throwing the shoe, but Millies voiced a message that was not radically different from the 21 other public speakers who addressed the board before its vote.
Lynne Serpe of Astoria was upset by the elimination of the W subway line, but she was fuming about the ?absolutely appalling? 150 percent increase in Access-a-Ride fares. Her father has dialysis three times a week.
Sander had called the new budget ?draconian,? ?very harsh? and ?extremely painful.?
?I understand the anger,? he said yesterday. ?We do not want to have to implement such difficult service cuts and fare increases, but our $1.2 billion deficit leaves us with no choice.?
Sander vowed to lobby state lawmakers to enact the funding ideas of a panel led by former MTA chair Richard Ravitch, and he called on riders to do the same.
The recommendations would lower the fare hike and avoid the service cuts, but they include an unpopular payroll tax and bridge tolls.
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I've seen that study, which is a very weak correlation, not a causation. I get the point - that you need to be careful to keep an overall healthy diet and not think drinking diet soda means you can then down a bucket of Krispy Kremes, even if you really feel like a sweet treat...
I wish there were more low-calorie, less-boring-than-water choices available more widely (like those naturally favored zero calorie seltzers) but in the meantime, if you are conscious of keeping to an overall healthy diet I don't see how diet soda is bad, and certainly not how it is worse than regular.
The only potentially interesting tidbit in that story is the allusion to the connection between caramel color and insulin (not a factor for a Diet Dew fiend!) and if there was a rigorous study to that effect I would love to see it (and I bet if it was valid we would see more Diet Pepsi Clear on the market...)
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I've seen that study, which is a very weak correlation, not a causation. I get the point - that you need to be careful to keep an overall healthy diet and not think drinking diet soda means you can then down a bucket of Krispy Kremes, even if you really feel like a sweet treat...
I wish there were more low-calorie, less-boring-than-water choices available more widely (like those naturally favored zero calorie seltzers) but in the meantime, if you are conscious of keeping to an overall healthy diet I don't see how diet soda is bad, and certainly not how it is worse than regular.
The only potentially interesting tidbit in that story is the allusion to the connection between caramel color and insulin (not a factor for a Diet Dew fiend!) and if there was a rigorous study to that effect I would love to see it (and I bet if it was valid we would see more Diet Pepsi Clear on the market...)
that's fair enough- i only really wanted to point out that thinking that drinking diet soda automatically means one is being healthy isn't necessarily accurate. and that as long as you aren't guzzling down 6 of them a day, i don't really think there is that much of a difference on the body between diet and regular- if you like the taste of diet, then go for it. personally, i can't stomach the taste of diet coke (or any diet sodas for that matter), so my 1-ish coke a day is fine.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/12/14/2008-12-14_governor_paterson_proposes_obesity_tax_a-1.html
Governor Paterson proposes 'Obesity Tax,' a tax on non-diet sodas
BY GLENN BLAIN and KENNETH LOVETT
DAILY NEWS ALBANY BUREAU
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Paterson's budget also calls for a 3% cut in education spending, a $620-a-year tuition hike at SUNY and a $600 increase at CUNY - and about $3.5 billion in health care cuts, a source said.
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Way to go Nanny! Poison our bodies while limiting our health care while dumbing us down even further so we are too stupid to know any better. ::)
Bede is absolutely, 100% correct!!!
Controlling your intake of sugar is one thing. Consuming poisons in it's place is a whole other issue. Don't pre-embalm yourself with that toxic garbage. Instead, choose to control your intake of various foods.
Also, it's not the nanny state government's place, or anyone else's, to go hog wild taxing every and anything, including cow farts. Stop playing along with their mind games by thinking we are getting away with something because it's not taxed...yet.
Originally, the FDA was going to ban the use of aspertame because it is so deadly but guess who stepped in to cast his controlling vote to get it approved. That crazy ass war mongering hawk Donald Rumsfeld.
Here's a link for you Bede:
(Cheers with a sugared cola of your choice.) ;)
Click here. (http://www.mpwhi.com/main.htm)
New York, I love you but I can't afford you anymore. Time for New Jersey and the surrounding states to pick up their infra-structure to service those of us who can't afford you or refuse to be sucked dry by your excessive taxes. This could be a win for your neighbors.
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Thanks Jaguar, I was going to say something similar, but my hatred of diet products is borderline fanatical. I would have said something more along the lines of "DIET SODA WILL KILL YOU" and left it at that. I can't believe how blindly people swallow the stuff.
Soda in general is just BAD. It needs to be treated like a dessert item, at minimum; I get a craving every now and then, but if possible I stave it off with a Perrier or a glass of added-sugarless juice (NO SWEETENERS!). (Although I also get fanatical about pulp-free orange juice. It's just not natural, I'm telling you.)
And I'm not a health nut, whatsoever...but this stuff is serious chemical warfare on your body, diet or not.
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as long as you aren't guzzling down 6 of them a day, i don't really think there is that much of a difference on the body between diet and regular
there is a difference - it's about 200 calories per 16 oz drink (http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/mail/goodanswer/soft_drink_nutrition.pdf). that's an easy 400 to 600 calories a day right there. the pounds are sure to follow.
i remember reading a study which noted that kids don't get satiated by soda - they will eat as much food with it as without. the calories from the soda do nothing to satisfy kids, and thus kids could cut their caloric intake - without noticing it - by simply cutting out the sugar bubbles.
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I want a flat fat-tax, none of this soda nonsense. Everyone gets on a scale at a government office and every pound over 105 for women and 165 for men is a $250 liability. We'd become the greatest civilization on earth.
i want you to come try to collect my taxes.
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as long as you aren't guzzling down 6 of them a day, i don't really think there is that much of a difference on the body between diet and regular
there is a difference - it's about 200 calories per 16 oz drink (http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/mail/goodanswer/soft_drink_nutrition.pdf). that's an easy 400 to 600 calories a day right there. the pounds are sure to follow.
i remember reading a study which noted that kids don't get satiated by soda - they will eat as much food with it as without. the calories from the soda do nothing to satisfy kids, and thus kids could cut their caloric intake - without noticing it - by simply cutting out the sugar bubbles.
right, soda is simply empty calories. . .but it's the effect of sugar in the soda and the artificial sweetener in the diet soda on the body that i'm pointing out. thinking that diet soda is ok because there isn't any calories fails to take into account the potential for other problems resulting from the artificial sweetener. but, like i said, if we're only talking about 1 can a day, i don't think it's a big deal either way....
we just have different priorities. . .i can live with the extra 140 calories i get from a can of regular coke (and, reluctantly, the corn syrup), instead of consuming some sweetener made in the lab that may or may not cause other problems, not to mention the difference in taste. it's also why i refuse to use margarine. . .but i think we already had that conversation....
samantha. . .sorry, but i am a pulp free oj kind of guy. . .when i get to the bottom of my glass, i don't want that mush of pulp to be my final taste.
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Yeah, but he's 19. Lets see how he holds up when he's almost 35.
I dunno I'm pretty scrawny too and I'm older than 35...
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soda makes you feel young again, thereby making it a-ok. and five keeps the neighborhood alive.
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You're an idiot. 165 for a man and 105 for a woman are not equivalent. If my wife weighed 105, she'd be dead.
I want a flat fat-tax, none of this soda nonsense. Everyone gets on a scale at a government office and every pound over 105 for women and 165 for men is a $250 liability. We'd become the greatest civilization on earth.
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i just want to apologize if i made it seem to anyone that i was extremely passionate on this taxing soda issue. I just thought it was an interesting article.
I know they tax lots of stuff these days that are "bad for you" and I sometimes muse at the extremely overweight person who tells me that smoking is bad for me.
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Lame idea. I'm pretty sure I'm the skinniest guy on this board and I've never touched a diet soda, mostly because I've never had to and it tastes like crap.
Now tie it to a scale or BMI and I'll sign on.
How did Vansmack know that diet soda tastes like crap if he's never had it?
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/9ohlKnRDAmotG/giphy.gif)
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There's some good content in this here thread.
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There's some good content in this here thread.
Thatguy ftw.