930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Hexenjagd on May 20, 2014, 05:27:19 pm
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Discuss
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A ticket to Led Zeppelin was $5 in the 70s before 930 Club existed. When they played a show a few years back, after 930 Club was up and running, it was several hundred. MUST BE BECAUSE 930 CLUB OPENED AND INCREASED COMPETITION!! YOU CANT RULE IT OUT AS A FACTOR! ECONOMICS: WHO CAM UNDERSTAND THEM?
;D
venues competing for the same talent drives up prices.. lets say a band has been playing venue x and they've been guaranteed Y.. .. a new venue opens up and they want that band..they have to bid higher..
a good example is the hamilton..... they are bidding high on acts they consider their home turf... new orleans music...
i don't see why it makes you guys angry.... having worked at a venue in town i can tell you that there are offer sheets and you put them out in response to requests from artists planning their tours...
No one is angry.
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but it is also true that in DC market there has been a lot of inflation..
which is why i said its not easy to say exactly what is driving the rising costs..
now some apparently are arguing that prices for concerts have not gone up....
talk about insane.
Not as much as you say they have.
They increase mainly due to inflation.
Having more venues means that bands wont have to SKIP dc when the 930 club is booked for that one day the band could play dc. They have other options. It isnt always that EVERY venue is trying to book EVERY band, EVERY time.
And your Echo and the Bunnymen example is ONE band. You dont think a band should get paid more money as the years go on? I get raises every year, I think bands should get paid as well.
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Definitely a lot I agree with in the above...
there are tons of examples.... what about Nick Cave going from $40 to $75?
It is true that having more venues gives us the advantage of getting more acts in town.....having said that, DC was always a town that got most shows....because so many acts book DC-Philly-NYC as a "tour"
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oh and add the Strathmore to the mix..
There probably isn't another market in the US that has seen as high an increase in seat capacity %wise in as short a time....... how that shakes out in terms of prices consumers pay is an open question but I have to believe it has some impact and I think its resulted in higher prices... that is, as was pointed out, what Seth argued would happen when the Fillmore opened....
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It's an interesting question, because the increase in the number of venues could affect ticket prices in a number of ways.
First, the venues compete with one another to book talent, in which case more venues (or at least more venue owners--LiveNation likely doesn't compete with itself) might mean more money paid from venues to talent, which could drive ticket prices up.
But on the other hand, more venues booking more overall shows should drive ticket prices down, as the shows have to compete with one another for the ticket buyer's dollar.
Finally, if there are lots of venues booking lots of shows and buying lots of ads trying to get people out to shows, an increase in venues could drive overall consumer demand higher--in short, the city becomes a hotter place for live music--which is why some cities seem to get a lot of shows relative to their population and others don't.
I'd be interested to know how Seth thinks this has shaken out over the past 10 years or so.
But then again, I'm a geek.
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you know whats another great example of what i'm talking about?
when ticketfly came into operation i thought they would reduce ticket charges..
they have INCREASED them and are doing gangbusters.. picking up venues... i know they got the hamilton and a few others
ticketfly and ticketmaster aren't competing to benefit the consumer but their customer which are the venues that use them.. the more money they guarantee the venues (some of whch goes to the artist in the end) the better they do.... of course the worse the consumer does
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ticketfly sucks. you get your tickets from ticketfly in a very obvious envelope sent from san francisco, ca. essentially, their $10+ fees cover a handful of asshat's exuberant rent.
a better solution would be eventbrite. they'll take over the ticket market eventually, no clue why it hasn't happened yet.
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As Artists are around longer their fans get older. Older fans can afford higher priced tickets. So the price goes up. It is supply and demand. Bands charge as much as they can. Having five venues bidding on the same band won't make ticket prices go up. Did you even take Econmics 101 in college. More venues bidding makes profit margin go down. It isn't suddenly going to make people want to pay more to see an act.
I have wanted to see acts that play the 930 club and I see 75 dollars and I say nevermind. I am not going to say wait there are 5 venues in town and now I am willing to pay more for a show. That is the dumbest logic ever. If anything more venues would lead to lower prices. You have all these options and you decide to go the one you like that is least expensive.
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I'm in favor of 930 club using any ticketing service that offers paperless tickets because it's 2014 for god sake!
If I can't make the poor, overweight rabble who work at music venues look at my expensive cell phone as they scan my ticket, I don't know what the point of going to concerts is!
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I'm in favor of 930 club using any ticketing service that offers paperless tickets because it's 2014 for god sake!
If I can't make the poor, overweight rabble who work at music venues look at my expensive cell phone as they scan my ticket, I don't know what the point of going to concerts is!
Really cell phones only go up so much in price. The poor staff at the club might have the most expensive cell phone out there. Making bad decisions like skipping college or having a stupid major in college is probably corelated to making bad decisions on purchases like buying a cell phone you can't afford.
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As Artists are around longer their fans get older. Older fans can afford higher priced tickets. So the price goes up. It is supply and demand. Bands charge as much as they can. Having five venues bidding on the same band won't make ticket prices go up. Did you even take Econmics 101 in college. More venues bidding makes profit margin go down. It isn't suddenly going to make people want to pay more to see an act.
I have wanted to see acts that play the 930 club and I see 75 dollars and I say nevermind. I am not going to say wait there are 5 venues in town and now I am willing to pay more for a show. That is the dumbest logic ever. If anything more venues would lead to lower prices. You have all these options and you decide to go the one you like that is least expensive.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but atomic is so spot on it's frightening! Ticket prices are a product of supply and demand. Seth's issue with other venues moving into the general area has to do with him being able to make less, not some altruistic concern of what we will pay for concerts.
EDIT: I emphasized his most prescient point.
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As Artists are around longer their fans get older. Older fans can afford higher priced tickets. So the price goes up. It is supply and demand. Bands charge as much as they can. Having five venues bidding on the same band won't make ticket prices go up. Did you even take Econmics 101 in college. More venues bidding makes profit margin go down. It isn't suddenly going to make people want to pay more to see an act.
I have wanted to see acts that play the 930 club and I see 75 dollars and I say nevermind. I am not going to say wait there are 5 venues in town and now I am willing to pay more for a show. That is the dumbest logic ever. If anything more venues would lead to lower prices. You have all these options and you decide to go the one you like that is least expensive.
well luckily the world isn't like you my friend! ;D
actually i wonder if there are any estimates on price elasticity of concert tickets...
and, yes, I did major in economics from an accredited four year college....not sure if I had to take econ 101 or was able to get out of it.. :)
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As Artists are around longer their fans get older. Older fans can afford higher priced tickets. So the price goes up. It is supply and demand. Bands charge as much as they can. Having five venues bidding on the same band won't make ticket prices go up. Did you even take Econmics 101 in college. More venues bidding makes profit margin go down. It isn't suddenly going to make people want to pay more to see an act.
I have wanted to see acts that play the 930 club and I see 75 dollars and I say nevermind. I am not going to say wait there are 5 venues in town and now I am willing to pay more for a show. That is the dumbest logic ever. If anything more venues would lead to lower prices. You have all these options and you decide to go the one you like that is least expensive.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but atomic is so spot on it's frightening! Ticket prices are a product of supply and demand. Seth's issue with other venues moving into the general area has to do with him being able to make less, not some altruistic concern of what we will pay for concerts.
EDIT: I emphasized his most prescient point.
I don't know that I buy that...
the venues are lowering their profit margins but at the same time also increasing prices for the consumer.. they compete on both ends.... not just on one...
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when IMP loses an act to Live Nation..say from the 930 to the Fillmore it isn't as if all of a sudden the cost of seeing the act at the Fillmore goes down because the Fillmore gave up its profit margin on the offer sheet....
*assuming venues are similar size for simplicity sake (they are not)
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I'm in favor of 930 club using any ticketing service that offers paperless tickets because it's 2014 for god sake!
If I can't make the poor, overweight rabble who work at music venues look at my expensive cell phone as they scan my ticket, I don't know what the point of going to concerts is!
Really cell phones only go up so much in price. The poor staff at the club might have the most expensive cell phone out there. Making bad decisions like skipping college or having a stupid major in college is probably corelated to making bad decisions on purchases like buying a cell phone you can't afford.
are you suggesting folks do what you did, and get two stupid majors instead of one?
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As Artists are around longer their fans get older. Older fans can afford higher priced tickets. So the price goes up. It is supply and demand. Bands charge as much as they can. Having five venues bidding on the same band won't make ticket prices go up. Did you even take Econmics 101 in college. More venues bidding makes profit margin go down. It isn't suddenly going to make people want to pay more to see an act.
I have wanted to see acts that play the 930 club and I see 75 dollars and I say nevermind. I am not going to say wait there are 5 venues in town and now I am willing to pay more for a show. That is the dumbest logic ever. If anything more venues would lead to lower prices. You have all these options and you decide to go the one you like that is least expensive.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but atomic is so spot on it's frightening! Ticket prices are a product of supply and demand. Seth's issue with other venues moving into the general area has to do with him being able to make less, not some altruistic concern of what we will pay for concerts.
EDIT: I emphasized his most prescient point.
I don't know that I buy that...
the venues are lowering their profit margins but at the same time also increasing prices for the consumer.. they compete on both ends.... not just on one...
And a venue's capability to maximize ticket revenue has a natural cap based on how much people are willing to pay to see a band that trumps everything else. You guys act like if Jimmy Eat World ticket prices are $20 or $85 they're going to sell the same amount of tickets just because the venue says so.
Yours much better off looking at concert venues as wholesalers of inessential luxury goods for economic purposes.
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[quote author=Julian, Community ORGANIZER link=topic=23753.msg387243#msg387243
Yours much better off looking at concert venues as wholesalers of inessential luxury goods for economic purposes.
[/quote]
you can throw out Jimmy Eat World but I can throw out Nick Cave...
there is probably no single way of looking at concert ticket prices..it surely varies by type of show and market and venue size, etc....
as far as what people are willing to pay a certain something called stubhub makes it very clear people are willing to pay a lot more than face value on a lot of the action...
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Since I am in Baltimore, I often compare Philly and DC shows, although mostly in terms of set times and days, since the prices are not terribly different. Philly seems to be a bit cheaper on average, perhaps just because of the local taxes?
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Also prices for ~200-1000 capacity indie rock shows were typically 2-3 times higher in Germany (typically 40-50 in USD) + 2-3 times more for gas when out of town, so I certainly won't complain about prices here.
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Since I am in Baltimore, I often compare Philly and DC shows, although mostly in terms of set times and days, since the prices are not terribly different. Philly seems to be a bit cheaper on average, perhaps just because of the local taxes?
Franz Ferdinand in Philly was half of what it cost in DC...
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Miss Cleo Science time for bands that have played both FSS and 930
Mastodon was 3 dollars less this time around the 930, with a Fillmore show booked in between, which was more, but included Opeth.
Portugal the Man - cheaper at 9:30 I think, though not Zoo cheap
Minus the Bear - cheaper at 9:30, before fees come into play
Didn't bother when Lotus did Fillmore, I think they were 9:30 this time around too.
2Chainz has gone back and forth, haven't paid too much attention there, asides from his latest classic, Netflix.
Coheed and Cambria seem to be rotating as well. samish price
Manchester Orchestra - basically same, though unavoidable ticketmaster fees.
Anymore of note?
Purely anecdotally, breaking Indie/synth bands seem to commanding a higher price than I remember. Then you have of Montreal, going 2 9:30 shows > 1 9:30 > 2 U Street Music Hall > Ottobar. Oversatuation, bad new material, or fickle indie crowd?
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drats...science..
;D
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I am glad people still care about going to shows. They cost more than they did 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, but so does everything else. Just a sign of the times.
I would love to not have 15 bucks added on to the price of my ticket, but what can I really do about it?
Pearl Jam tried to battle ticketmaster all those years ago, and it was a pain in the ass to get those tickets. Now they're right back to getting LiveNation or Ticketmaster to handle the tickets for their tours.
Does it suck that it costs so much? Yes. Do I miss out on a bunch of shows because I have to be more choosy now? Yes. But, that's just the way it goes.
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(http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2013/3/29/3d7c8a6a-e7df-41f0-9526-038224f4baa5.gif)
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Anymore of note?
the venues are roughly the same size (fillmore is slightly bigger, IIRC), yet we only could name a handful of comparisons over it's 3 year existence. leads me to believe you're comparing apples to oranges here...
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http://www.pollstar.com/atpDetail.aspx?SearchBy=A
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I am glad people still care about going to shows. They cost more than they did 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, but so does everything else. Just a sign of the times.
I would love to not have 15 bucks added on to the price of my ticket, but what can I really do about it?
Pearl Jam tried to battle ticketmaster all those years ago, and it was a pain in the ass to get those tickets. Now they're right back to getting LiveNation or Ticketmaster to handle the tickets for their tours.
Does it suck that it costs so much? Yes. Do I miss out on a bunch of shows because I have to be more choosy now? Yes. But, that's just the way it goes.
I am sure a lot of those service charges go back to the venue. Ticketmaster/Live Nation has been losing a lot of money so its not like they are getting rich off of you.
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Anymore of note?
the venues are roughly the same size (fillmore is slightly bigger, IIRC), yet we only could name a handful of comparisons over it's 3 year existence. leads me to believe you're comparing apples to oranges here...
1200 vs 2000 person capacity is only slightly bigger to you? That is closer to twice as big.
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Anymore of note?
the venues are roughly the same size (fillmore is slightly bigger, IIRC), yet we only could name a handful of comparisons over it's 3 year existence. leads me to believe you're comparing apples to oranges here...
1200 vs 2000 person capacity is only slightly bigger to you? That is closer to twice as big.
i thought it was 1500 for some reason.
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900 downstairs, 300 up.