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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: ccperkdog on October 01, 2005, 01:32:00 pm
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Too bad an excellent show by Coldplay was practically ruined by the expected traffic disaster that is attending a concert at Nissan Pavilion. The scene looked like a Houston area freeway during a hurricane evacuation. It took about 1 1/2 hours to get from the exit on 66 to the venue, only about 4 miles away. Then afterward we literally moved about 20 ft over the course of 2 hours waiting for the parking lot to clear.
Anyways...high energy show. Sucked the two large video screnes were out, don't know why, but for those in the pavilion the view was good enough. Yellow beach balls falling from the ceiling during "Yellow" was cool. Best two cuts were "Till Kingdom Come" and the cover of "Ring of Fire." Not too political, surprising. Band seemed to play with lots of energy, probably glad to be getting out of the States. Missed the opening act.
But back to the rant...it is time to demolish the mess that is Nissan Pavilion. The place ruins the concert experience for the most part. Merriweather is much better even with the bad accoustics.
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Couldn't agree more! It took over 4 1/2 hours from College Park to get there. 2/3 of that was on I-66 and the little tiny roads that lead into the Nissan Pavilion.
We slept in the car for about two hours afterward, just so we didn't have to sit in traffic getting out. The facilities are decent, but it's in the worst location ever!
Why doesn't everyone just play at MCI if you have to play in front of 10,000 people? I would be that almost 75% of the people who were there last night were from within 5 or so miles of D.C. And if not, you could park at any of the suburban metro stops and take the metro in.
Regarding Coldplay, I'm not much of a fan (my gf loves them), but I thought they played alright.
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Nissan needs to go away. Never dealing with that shit ever again.
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nissan is absolutely pathetic. it was the most amateur handling of parking i have ever seen. Entire lots bottlenecking into one lane with absolutely no direction whatsoever. it's gonna take someone really exceptional to get me to go back there. the traffic was abysmal as well. i had expected to get there well in time for rilo kiley's set, but we ended up getting there literally 10 seconds before coldplay started. it sucks too because i was really looking forward to rilo kiley. it took us 3 and a half hours to get there from dc.
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first off I.M.P. isn't involved with Nissan so any moaning here will be ignored by the powers that be. or chuckled at... complaints should be directed at ClearChannel, Cellar Door, and even at Coldplay and thier management for scheduling the concert there.
thing about nissan is that people have been complaining about it since it opened and yet little has been done to improve it... why? because people keep going back so why spend the money to do anything about it. the only way they'll make the improvements is if people start boycotting the place... but like mindcage said in the discussion over drink prices going up at the club, there will be complaining, etc until the next show that comes there that people need to see gets announced and they'll put up with again... and complain about it again lather rinse repeat
if one is truly tired of place then you complain to it's sponsers as well...
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nixon pavilion, the local police used to turn the road that goes northbound up to 66 one way and they got the whole lot cleared out with very little sitting and waiting in line like 10-20mins. at ozzfest this year they routed traffic southbound and all over ja-bip. wtf?! why the hell they changed it beats me probably local politics. ya know that is redneck country and they hate us city folk, outsiders u know, small hands. they also changed the lots all around. tip: dont try to leave right away, relax. hang out at your car. drink, smoke, play hacky sack, play music, feel each other up [yes i mean w yer gf ...or bf!] but dont be a dumbass like most ppl around dc and be in a hurry to go nowhere fast.
:( ...too late. vicodin was the answer.
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god, i definitely feel your pain.
last night was my fourth time at nissan; and the traffic seems to get worse and worse each time i go.
last night we left at 4:30 from Bethesda, and arrived at around 8:15. Rilo Kiley, who i was there to see more than i was to see Coldplay, had been playing since 7:30ish; and we only caught about three or four of their songs. i almost cried.
Coldplay were amazing too, but it did suck that the screens were out...we were on the lawn (place was PACKED!).
surprisingly, though, we got lucky and it only took like a half hour to get out of the parking lot. so that was pretty boss.
is anybody else here pissed about Coldplay's incredibly short set, though? that still bothers me...
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some things people who complain should consider:
traffic vs. acoustics
well, anybody who has ever been to an outdoor concert knows the sound is going to suck, regardless. however, some places are better than others. the other thing to consider is where you sit, but ticket prices may preclude some from ever hearing a decent outdoor show
video screens
I have on very good authority that the video screens were out because Coldplay requested them to be. Headliners get what they want.
Seriously, quit bitching, if you don't want to deal with the things that are part and parcel of going to shows, don't go.
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Originally posted by msaonline:
video screens
I have on very good authority that the video screens were out because Coldplay requested them to be. Headliners get what they want.
I thought this was obvious since, oh, COLDPLAY BROUGHT THEIR OWN VIDEO SCREEN WITH THEM ON STAGE.
That said, for those who weren't in the pit, I'm sure it was pretty annoying that they only put the band up every 4th or 5th song.
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well im probably the one person who didnt complain too much about getting to nissan. i was warned about the 3-4 hour drive from everyone who previously had been there. i know lots of people from work who live in manassas and was lucky to take backroads. needless to say i left at 5:15 from fairfax and was there right around 6pm. met some cool people in the pit who had to pay close to $500 to see coldplay. i almost cried for them.
none of us cared for riley kiley. jenny lewis does have a good voice, but sounds a bit too countryish for my liking. some of the songs were catchy, but wasnt blown away by them.
i was right in front for coldplay, on the left side. couldnt have had a better view. coldplay played roughly an hour and a half with the highlights of the show the johnny cash covers. 'ring of fire' was great. i was glad to hear trouble, sad that i didnt hear spies or don't panic. overall, thought coldplay did a great job of playing songs from all their albums. chris was energetic, entertaining, and def. was worth being right up front. i don't care for x&y all too much, but the songs worked live. and i was surprised chris didnt start ranting and raving when he had his moment of talking to the crowd, about the war, etc.
off to see robbers tonight and cannot wait! ill take going into arlington any day over venturing to nissan pavillion. that place is def. a nightmare, and i plan on never going back there again, unless the smiths reunite!
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by msaonline:
video screens
I have on very good authority that the video screens were out because Coldplay requested them to be. Headliners get what they want.
I thought this was obvious since, oh, COLDPLAY BROUGHT THEIR OWN VIDEO SCREEN WITH THEM ON STAGE.
That said, for those who weren't in the pit, I'm sure it was pretty annoying that they only put the band up every 4th or 5th song. [/b]
right. i was on the lawn, and we really couldn't see a thing. but it was okay because the audio was what counted. i cannot believe they didn't play Amsterdam!
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I think all my complaints about friday nights show have already been mentioned.
but. i do have to say this
Coldplay set @ hfstival > coldplay set friday night
yes
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yeah i would agree i was more excited/entertained at hfstival than i was friday night. although i still thought friday night was really good
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Originally posted by msaonline:
Seriously, quit bitching, if you don't want to deal with the things that are part and parcel of going to shows, don't go.
shut the fuck up.
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ahhhhh cant u just feel the luv in the room?
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Originally posted by jesse:
Coldplay set @ hfstival > coldplay set friday night
Yeah, seven songs is always much better then those seven songs plus ten more. :roll:
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Originally posted by you be betty:
last night we left at 4:30 from Bethesda, and arrived at around 8:15. Rilo Kiley, who i was there to see more than i was to see Coldplay, had been playing since 7:30ish; and we only caught about three or four of their songs. i almost cried.
As I recall, they came on late, and only played 8 songs, so you didn't miss a whole lot.
It's A Hit
I Never
Pull Me In Tighter
Does He Love You*
A Man/Me/Jim*
More Adventurous*
The Execution Of All Things
Portions For Foxes
The ones with astericks could be out of order. The people in the pit were mostly polite except for one kid who kept either yelling "You're dead, Matthews" or "Theme Song to Boy Meets World" at Blake or "Show us where babies feed!" at Jenny. I wanted to smack that bastard.
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I'd have to say that Nissan is a real pain cause of traffic, but for me the only way I'll go there is for someone I rEALly need/want to see (like when I went to see Rush).
And if that is the case, it's an afternoon off, I will leave work early or just take lots of time off to go see whoever.
If the band is THAT important, I take a vacation so hopefuly you can do that.
I even left work at 2:30 to leave Crystal City to drive up to Merriweather to see Radiohead. I didn't miss anything but it was a brutal long drive and horrid traffic. I should have taken the whole afternoon off.
Lesson learned ;)
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by jesse:
Coldplay set @ hfstival > coldplay set friday night
Yeah, seven songs is always much better then those seven songs plus ten more. :roll: [/b]
i can think of lots of reason why a seven song set would be better than 17...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
i can think of lots of reason why a seven song set would be better than 17...
I can too (i.e. "this band sucks"), but I'm working off the assumption that someone who went to see the band twice likes them. I was at both shows, and I cannot for the life of me figure out how someone who was at both would like the shorter show better when the band played equally well at both.
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and i'm totally enjoying reading the new post writers concert reviews... bring on the snary comments! i'll bet he gets more than his fair share of hate mail. comparing Coldplay to Dave Matthews Band was just priceless.
he is cool of course until he trashes of my favs, then i'll toilet paper his house...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
and i'm totally enjoying reading the new post writers concert reviews... bring on the snary comments! i'll bet he gets more than his fair share of hate mail. comparing Coldplay to Dave Matthews Band was just priceless.
only part better than that was about which bands make music to be played in new cars vs. old cars. wtf?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
and i'm totally enjoying reading the new post writers concert reviews... bring on the snary comments! i'll bet he gets more than his fair share of hate mail. comparing Coldplay to Dave Matthews Band was just priceless.
he is cool of course until he trashes of my favs, then i'll toilet paper his house...
unlike some others in here, i really like his reviews, here's a quote from the best part:
"Whatever. Upon further review, a better data point is the Dave Matthews band, minus the fiddle solos.
As a vocalist, Martin -- who showed enough promise early on that he was considered the probable heir to the late Jeff Buckley's king-of-crestfallen-singers-with-soaring-voices throne -- has come to sound like an over-emotive version of the Birkenstock rocker Matthews. The singers have the same high register, and both have come to serve basically the same audience -- one that does not include indie hipsters who recoil at Martin's immodesty and hyper-pretension, as well as the strikingly familiar, middle-of-the-road quality of his band's music. Particularly on the new "X&Y." Coldplay and the Dave Matthews band generally appeal to medium-level dull people. They both create music to be played in new cars. Whereas true artists make music to be played in old cars."
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The use of the term "natch" should be outlawed; at least among those hoping to be viewed as real journalists.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
The use of the term "natch" should be outlawed; at least among those hoping to be viewed as real journalists.
The use of the term "snatch" should be increased, at least among those hoping to be published in Penthouse Forum.
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AMEN! I read that in the paper, and thought "natch"? Is this guy a journalist, or my 13 year old sister?
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
and i'm totally enjoying reading the new post writers concert reviews... bring on the snary comments! i'll bet he gets more than his fair share of hate mail. comparing Coldplay to Dave Matthews Band was just priceless.
he is cool of course until he trashes of my favs, then i'll toilet paper his house...
unlike some others in here, i really like his reviews, here's a quote from the best part:
"Whatever. Upon further review, a better data point is the Dave Matthews band, minus the fiddle solos.
As a vocalist, Martin -- who showed enough promise early on that he was considered the probable heir to the late Jeff Buckley's king-of-crestfallen-singers-with-soaring-voices throne -- has come to sound like an over-emotive version of the Birkenstock rocker Matthews. The singers have the same high register, and both have come to serve basically the same audience -- one that does not include indie hipsters who recoil at Martin's immodesty and hyper-pretension, as well as the strikingly familiar, middle-of-the-road quality of his band's music. Particularly on the new "X&Y." Coldplay and the Dave Matthews band generally appeal to medium-level dull people. They both create music to be played in new cars. Whereas true artists make music to be played in old cars." [/b]
Wow, I just copied and pasted that exact same section and emailed it to a friend saying it was a great comparison.
I like his writing. A little cliched, but still he knows what he's talking about.
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Originally posted by gildar2002:
AMEN! I read that in the paper, and thought "natch"? Is this guy a journalist, or my 13 year old sister?
you can't please everyone with pop culture criticism ... would you rather have some staid writer who can't improvise outside of traditional journalistic norms to write a review of a coldplay show? sounds like a fantastic read!
so when you start writing untraditionally, you open yourself up to hipsters who think you're trying too hard ... you just can't win, and i think j. freedom does a pretty good job
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I don't have a problem with his writing in general; but "natch" has become such a hackneyed hipster term that it has become staid and unimaginative.
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i dont even know what review you all are talking about!!!!
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i was afraid but now i cant come out. i heard dave matthews playing over and over all day long at my gym an i wanted to slit my wrists. i get so irritated at the gym espeically after during a set that i blurt out "this music sucks!"
man, dave matthews blows. sounds like lame-ass yodeling. i thought to myself, its like this bands members long ago said "hey lets have freddy join with the band with his violin" as a neat one time thing. and it was all quirky and odd and they stuck with it, milking it. somehow this novelty caught on w that bland crowd that likes this bland wiener-music-lite.
i once read an article in playboy that was so dead on, wish i still had it, it categorized the social groups of people and why they listen to what they listen to. and this group who listens to the yodel-man band likes to be "in", what is popular but likes to think its their own little secret/discovery but its another consumable just like their abercrombie clothes. and its sweet and it goes down easy without all that nasty bite and substance.
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If 'bamas be curious, here's the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/01/AR2005100101178.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/01/AR2005100101178.html)
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conversation continued on dcist...
http://www.dcist.com/archives/2005/10/03/coldplays_traffic-inducing_concert.php (http://www.dcist.com/archives/2005/10/03/coldplays_traffic-inducing_concert.php)
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I was dissapointed that there were no screens for the people in the lawn. And yes the traffic leaving and going was horrible. My friend and I ended up driving thru some weird dirt path we found in the woods to get out of there after the show. Thank goodness we did, I wasn't in the mood to sit for another hour. Decent show minus the traffic and no tv screens.
PS did Chris Martin seem drunk or was that just me?
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I don't care if it's the greatest band in the world and you have free tix...unless you have a helecopter to get in and out of that hell hole there's no point in going to the Nissan Pavilion. Ever.
Plus, who stops serving 25 minutes after the show starts??? After 3 hours in bumper to bumper traffic I'd have happily paid for 5-6 drinks at $7 a pop just to get the edge off...but they shut down the concessions. It's a POS venue...it was my first and last time there. I've never had a venue so overshadow my concert experience. :mad:
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Um does anyone at the show remember that at one point they did use the video screens. IT was like a clip of a bear walking back and forth which I still didn't understand. It was only for one song but it is pretty clear that they were working.
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
conversation continued on dcist...
http://www.dcist.com/archives/2005/10/03/coldplays_traffic-inducing_concert.php (http://www.dcist.com/archives/2005/10/03/coldplays_traffic-inducing_concert.php)
hehe, all the DC young professional hipsters are up in arms! 17 comments so far. Glad I didn't go.
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that's pretty cute
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wow. i have never been to the Nissan Pavilion and I have never heard anything good about it.
I would go if Radiohead was playing. thats probably it though.
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Originally posted by sonickteam, forum nice guy:
I would go if Radiohead was playing. thats probably it though.
Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins - that's pretty much it for me as well.
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Originally posted by sonickteam, forum nice guy:
wow. i have never been to the Nissan Pavilion and I have never heard anything good about it.
i used to live in manassas and i still have never been there
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by sonickteam, forum nice guy:
I would go if Radiohead was playing. thats probably it though.
Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins - that's pretty much it for me as well. [/b]
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dude, i think the Pumpkins broke up....sorry to break the news.. ;)
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Originally posted by sonickteam, forum nice guy:
dude, i think the Pumpkins broke up....sorry to break the news.. ;)
dude, reunion tour spring/summer 06.. ;)
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by you be betty:
last night we left at 4:30 from Bethesda, and arrived at around 8:15. Rilo Kiley, who i was there to see more than i was to see Coldplay, had been playing since 7:30ish; and we only caught about three or four of their songs. i almost cried.
As I recall, they came on late, and only played 8 songs, so you didn't miss a whole lot.
It's A Hit
I Never
Pull Me In Tighter
Does He Love You*
A Man/Me/Jim*
More Adventurous*
The Execution Of All Things
Portions For Foxes
The ones with astericks could be out of order. The people in the pit were mostly polite except for one kid who kept either yelling "You're dead, Matthews" or "Theme Song to Boy Meets World" at Blake or "Show us where babies feed!" at Jenny. I wanted to smack that bastard. [/b]
we drove into the pavilion as Does He Love You was finishing, and i almost started sobbing because Jenny sounded so beautiful (and of course any long-time RK fans like you or myself would get emotional and very overjoyed seeing them play such a huge venue--they have come so far in the last year or two and it's just amazing). then i ran up those ginormous-ass stairs as fast as i could go and just dove onto the lawn to catch the rest of their set. my friends and i were panting like crazy, but at least we caught the rest of the set. but you can definitely remove the asterisk from Does He Love You :cool:
i wish you would have smacked those guys. that whole band, in addition to being insanely talented are just some of the nicest and most humbling people you will ever encounter, and i love them all so very dearly. especially Boesel. i always seem to talk to him after shows.
the lawn folks weren't being that kind. when Jenny said something like "wow, thank you all so much...we're really not used to playing to crowds this big" some guy shouted out "YEAH, WE CAN TELL!" i yelled back something along the lines of "SHUT IT ASSFACE!" people were just talking during their entire set, but i guess that is to be expected. people are people. at the end of the show, Blake said something like "this is our last song" right before Portions and some other obnoxious guy was like "THANK GOD IT'S OVER" and then some other guy yelled back at him "HEY, SHUT UP! THAT'S MY BROTHER!" well it clearly wasn't Blake's brother but it was at least a nice gesture.
it makes me feel a little better to know that i didn't miss as much of their set as i thought i did, though...
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There was something going on with traffic that day besides the show at Nissan. It was total insanity everywhere! I was on East West Hwy at Waverly and it took me 45 minutes just to get to Connecticut Ave., which is maybe only 1 mile away. All of Bethesda was a madhouse! Once I got up to the Capital Beltway, it was a bit better but traffic was still a bitch all the way home which is north of Baltimore. Now that definitely wasn't concert traffic, especially going north at between 5:00PM-7:30PM. Normally at about that time I can get home in about 1 1/2 hours, give or take 15 minutes. That day it took me 2 1/2 hours!
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Traffic in the area is always most horrid on Friday, especially during the summer months...
And aren't we suppose to be driving less anyways ;)
Traffic here is going the way of LA very quickly where even on the weekend one can get mired in traffic jams. Went down to Richmond on Sunday outing and for no apparent reason other than volume,creeped through most of Prince William County. Of course VDOT could have easily open up the HOV lanes going north to help the situtation...
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Coldplay sucks.
If you get to Nissan early and listen to the encore at your car, you shouldn't have problems.
Coldplay sucks.
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I just recieved a link to complete a survey about the Coldplay concert at Nissan Pavilion... I recommend anyone that experienced the hell that is Nissan to enter your complaints... (the website is aptly named)... http://www.ourfansfirst.com/ (http://www.ourfansfirst.com/)
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Anyone know where one could find Coldplay's setlist from that night?
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Square One
Politik
Yellow
Speed Of Sound
God Put A Smile On Your Face
Trouble
White Shadows
Everything's Not Lost
The Scientist
Til Kingdom Come
Ring of Fire
Green Eyes
Clocks
Talk
Encore-
Swallowed In The Sea
In My Place
Fix You
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Thanks Snapp.
Originally posted by Snapp:
Square One
Politik
Yellow
Speed Of Sound
God Put A Smile On Your Face
Trouble
White Shadows
Everything's Not Lost
The Scientist
Til Kingdom Come
Ring of Fire
Green Eyes
Clocks
Talk
Encore-
Swallowed In The Sea
In My Place
Fix You
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not sure what it is bout these guys but every picture looks like they are constipated or their laxative just kicked in.
<img src="http://www.energy.de/images/action/1/coldplay.jpg" alt=" - " />
trying too hard to act all serious n stuff. methinks there crap especially when i heard that whiny piano song of theirs im sure it makes all the girls wet but hey so does bon jovi. "next!"
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as one poster has already mentioned...
I myself don't mind some of their stuff but I could never go to one of their shows, their music really enduces narcolepsy (puts me to sleep).
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
and i'm totally enjoying reading the new post writers concert reviews... bring on the snary comments! i'll bet he gets more than his fair share of hate mail. comparing Coldplay to Dave Matthews Band was just priceless.
he is cool of course until he trashes of my favs, then i'll toilet paper his house...
A friend just sent me this link: Pop Talk (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/10/03/DI2005100300909.html)
Post comments/questions to J. Free
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Originally posted by amnesiac:
A friend just sent me this link: Pop Talk (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/10/03/DI2005100300909.html)
Post comments/questions to J. Free
i can't even imagine how tough it would be to be the full-time music critic at a major newspaper ... knowing that most of the lowest-common-denominator stuff that sells out the arenas and amphitheatres sucks balls, but the majority of your readership likes those bands
so what are you supposed to do? find a music critic who actually likes those bands and whose tastes mesh with the average dumbass radio listener? do they exist?
i guess the broader question is: should a newspaper pop critic's tastes gibe with his readership's tastes? does that ever really happen?
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I think it's hysterical how J Freedom answered the first question (I haven't even read past that yet).
Potomac, MD: We're sorry, and we don't mean to be rude, but your reviews lately have been absolutely terrible--most of all, a bit amateurish and unprofessional. First of all, REVIEW THE CONCERTS. Don't worry about tabloid gossip news--it is literallly irrelevant to the concert at hand. No one gives a damn if Gwyneth Paltrow goes to a Coldplay concert. No one. Who cares? What songs did the band play, how were they played, what was the essence of the show? And to say that Coldplay plays music for "dull people" is absolutely childish, amateurish, unprofessional, stupid--and offensive. A stupid comment like that does not belong in a review in the Washington Post. Gee, the sold-out crowd of 25,000 people--from their teens to middle-aged, it should be noted, which it wasn't--at Nissan Friday night must mean that there are a lot of "dull people" out there WHO REALLY LIKE COLDPLAY'S MUSIC. Also, please get past the tabloid stuff and stale jokes about the Rolling Stones--WHAT WAS THE CONCERT LIKE, WHAT SONGS DID THEY PLAY, HOW DID THEY PLAY THEM, GIVE THE DETAILS OF THE CONCERT.
Please--talk to Richard Harrington for some pointers. He's the best popular music writer the Post has ever had--and he's still in the newsroom!
J. Freedom du Lac: Thanks, Potomac. Please don't apologize for sharing your opinions. I certainly don't!
You're right - there are a lot of medium-level dull people out there who like Coldplay's music. "50,000,000 Coldplay Fans Can't Be Wrong," etc. Hey, Celine Dion is popular, too! [/i]
Look, I don't have anything against Coldplay fans. Some of my best friends are Coldplay fans I'm just saying: It's not the most interesting music out there.
As for the Stones: The concert was great. I do believe I said as much.
Thanks for the tip on Richard, who is a veritable pop-music encyclopedia. Reminds me that we're supposed to have lunch this week.
And later....
That wasn't a commentary on the popularity of Coldplay and DMB, per se. More of a riff on the middle-of-the-road quality of their muzak. [/i]
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So when does the U2 bashing start? They sell a lot of records too.
I'm guessing Coldplay was just a warm up lap...
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
i guess the broader question is: should a newspaper pop critic's tastes gibe with his readership's tastes? does that ever really happen?
Music criticism has become too polite. just look at metacritic. All those albums, and only one (Alanis Morrisette) has a negative rating. Look at the film and DVD ratings and you see plenty of red.
So I'm all for music critics getting a little more...um...critical. At the same time, they probably should tread lightly on the fragile egos of the medium-level dull.
There is plenty of room to be critical without being Pitchfork-snarky also.
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I hope someone asks him why he goes by the asinine moniker of "J. Freedom" rather than his given name of "Josh."
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dont any musicians friggin play their instruments anymore?! no, i mean PLAY them, like they would when they r jammin in the garage. or when they were in band practice at skool. where r the zappa's? the steve vai's? dammit, i played the drums and know musicians and the crap i hear is not what muscians CAN do or want to do. that's the reall issue. reminds me zappa singing "...because anyone who would buy this record...nobody gives a fuck if this record has good musicians on it, b/c this is a stupid song"
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Originally posted by muschi:
dont any musicians friggin play their instruments anymore?!
are you still here?
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i dont see anybody else here. you talkin ta me?
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you know, ever since I left the Coldplay show at 10 PM and saw the miles of cars still waiting to get in, I've thought long & hard about this one
as horrible as that was, did the 25,000 people that bought tickets not know what they were getting into when they bought the tickets, or were they all from out of town?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Music criticism has become too polite. just look at metacritic. All those albums, and only one (Alanis Morrisette) has a negative rating. Look at the film and DVD ratings and you see plenty of red.
Part of why this happens is that there are many more albums released than movies, so for a reviews to be written about all of them would be time consuming. Since personal music tastes tend to more specific, why would a reviewer want to listen to and write about something they aren't going to like and give a bad review. CMJ New Music Monthly was asked once why their reviews were mainly postive, and the answer was why review something we hate. Any number of outlets could trash the numerous self recorded and released records they get swamped with.
And most outlets tend to specialize in "critisism" of a specific genre, be it indie rock, alt-country, emo, commercial rock, etc so reviews tend to be more positive and cheerleading. Bigger sites serve more as filters for it's readership.
Maybe some more point/counterpoint reviews are in order, or just let econo review stuff he'll trash anything :D
Concerts are more likely to be trashed than a record...
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
as horrible as that was, did the 25,000 people that bought tickets not know what they were getting into when they bought the tickets, or were they all from out of town?
If you're not a regular to a place like Nissan (and I don't know anyone who is, except perhaps my friends who hit Jimmy Buffett every year, and they get there at like 2:00 p.m.), how could anyone know to expect a 3 hour drive from the District or Arlington?
Someone already made the point -- next time go to Philly! I've never been to Nissan since my 2.5 hour trek out for Pearl Jam a couple years ago. As mentioned, I'll go for the reunited Smiths or Replacements. That's it.
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Part of why this happens is that there are many more albums released than movies, so for a reviews to be written about all of them would be time consuming. Since personal music tastes tend to more specific, why would a reviewer want to listen to and write about something they aren't going to like and give a bad review. CMJ New Music Monthly was asked once why their reviews were mainly postive, and the answer was why review something we hate. Any number of outlets could trash the numerous self recorded and released records they get swamped with.
Sure, but Metacritic has some minimum number (6?) of reviews that an album must get from a list of recognized publications, so its not just random favorites of particular writers.
There are over 100 albums listed on the site, meaning that out of 100 albums reviewed by six or more publications, less than 1% of them are rated "below average." That just doesn't jive with reality.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
And most outlets tend to specialize in "critisism" of a specific genre, be it indie rock, alt-country, emo, commercial rock, etc so reviews tend to be more positive and cheerleading. Bigger sites serve more as filters for it's readership.
I hear what you're saying, K, but god knows there are as many (if not more) crap indie albums than great indie albums. Even within a genre, shouldn't there be more variance? It is one thing I like about Pitchfork -- they're not afraid to trash an album.
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Coming from the south, getting to Nissan is never that bad, no matter how late I try and get there. I go up 234 (I think) and take a left on wellington, and there's never, ever any traffic until that point, and from there it's only 20 minutes even if packed.
I always seem to luck out leaving as well. I think it only took me 20-30 minutes to get out of the parking lot to leave after Coldplay, and I didn't run out afterwards or anything (and again, going down 234 instead of 66 means there's virtually no one else around).
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by jesse:
Coldplay set @ hfstival > coldplay set friday night
Yeah, seven songs is always much better then those seven songs plus ten more. ;)
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Originally posted by Bags:
It is one thing I like about Pitchfork -- they're not afraid to trash an album.
The one thing I find most amusing about Pitchfork is they'll often be just nasty to a record, calling the band/singer washed up and not have anything good to say, then they'll give it a 5 or 6. 5 or 6!?! Isn't that above average according to their rating scale?
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most music reviews tend to find something to recommend about an album, and it's usually for fans of a particular style of music to findout about a record. which is why most of the records on metacritic fall in the green zone. there obviously records that receive critical acclaim or trashing as the case maybe.
the metacritic film section is much like rottentomatoes in that it uses a specific list of publications and reviewers, whereas there is no such list for the music reviews.
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by Bags:
It is one thing I like about Pitchfork -- they're not afraid to trash an album.
The one thing I find most amusing about Pitchfork is they'll often be just nasty to a record, calling the band/singer washed up and not have anything good to say, then they'll give it a 5 or 6. 5 or 6!?! Isn't that above average according to their rating scale? [/b]
i thought it worked more like a grading scale. like a 7.0 is a c-
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
the metacritic film section is much like rottentomatoes in that it uses a specific list of publications and reviewers, whereas there is no such list for the music reviews.
Q: Which critics and publications are included in your calculations?
A: See the lists below. Several times each year, we will reevaluate our publication lists and may make additions and/or deletions.
Music:
All Music Guide
Almost Cool
Alternative Press*
Amazon.com
Austin Chronicle
Billboard
Blender*
cokemachineglow
Delusions of Adequacy
Dot Music
Drawer B
Drowned In Sound
Dusted Magazine
E! Online
Entertainment Weekly
Filter*
Flak Magazine
The Guardian
Junkmedia
Los Angeles Times
Lost At Sea
Magnet*
Mojo*
musicOMH.com
New Musical Express
New York Magazine
New York Times
neumu
No Ripcord
The Onion (A.V. Club)
Paste Magazine
Pitchfork
Planet*
Playlouder
Pop Matters
Prefix Magazine
Q Magazine*
Resonance*
Rolling Stone
ShakingThrough.net
Slant Magazine
Spin*
Splendid
Stylus Magazine
Tiny Mix Tapes
Trouser Press
Uncut*
Under The Radar*
Urb*
Vibe*
Village Voice
The Wire*
http://www.metacritic.com/about/scoring.shtml (http://www.metacritic.com/about/scoring.shtml)
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I'm kind of surprised that a band like Travis never made it to where Coldplay is. If Coldplay can do this well in the States, then it's a bit of a puzzlement to me that Travis (who write better songs, are way more fun and funny, and cuter too) never found that audience that would take them to bigger venues and more album sales. They have more charisma and aren't as much of a downer. Of course, that last record of theirs was utter crap, but they had some decent songs early on, especially "Good Feeling" which is a great record.
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
i thought it worked more like a grading scale. like a 7.0 is a c-
Not unless they changed it. They used to have a box detailing it, and I remember distinctly "5.0 - Average."
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yeah that box is gone
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
yeah that box is gone
Which I didn't realize until I went to check the exact words when you asked. Perhaps they've changed their review scale?
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point taken... but the music reviews aren't broken out like the movie reviews are...
maybe what we need is a metametacritic.com site, so that go through the scores and toss out anomolies.
i.e. there are only two reviews above 90 forDCFC, toss them and the score dips below 60.
also a weighting system could be assigned to each review, based on whether on not publication has reviewed that artist before.
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
yeah that box is gone
Which I didn't realize until I went to check the exact words when you asked. Perhaps they've changed their review scale? [/b]
i don't know. i don't really pay attention to the little scale thing (if its like a 10 or a 0 or something maybe), but i went to check too. was always kind of an assumption on my part
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
yeah that box is gone
Which I didn't realize until I went to check the exact words when you asked. Perhaps they've changed their review scale? [/b]
ratings key (http://www.subpop.com/features/pdork/)
10.0: A reissue from the late '70s / early '80s that no one could get away with dissing you for owning (even if they WERE sick of it 4 years ago)
9.5-9.9: Flaming Lips, White Stripes and Radiohead -- ALL JAMMING TOGETHER!
9.0-9.4: You must post your love for this record on EVERY message board on earth
8.5-8.9: Inspirational, maybe even to the point of motivating you to move out of your parents' basement
8.0-8.4: Worth leaving your dorm room to buy (remember to bring sunglasses, natural feels way different than fluorescent)
7.5-7.9: Try to review a record of this caliber without saying 'hipster' or 'tousled hair', I dare you
7.0-7.4: Worth downloading (Reminder: finish term paper on the effects of file sharing on the music industry)
6.0-6.9: Maybe we should put together a book of all our reviews because they're way too hard to find on our website. Paper is the new internet!
5.0-5.9: Burn a copy from the radio station where your lab partner works
4.0-4.9: Something we liked last year, but SO isn't this year
3.0-3.9: A Sub Pop release from the mid to late '90s (BURNED!)
2.0-2.9: Tribute album
1.0-1.9: I got kicked out of a band that sounded like this
0.0-0.9: Breaks new ground for terrible but for some reason we're still reviewing it
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
yeah that box is gone
Which I didn't realize until I went to check the exact words when you asked. Perhaps they've changed their review scale? [/b]
ratings key (http://www.somethingawful.com/fake/richdork/)
10.0: Must be Radiohead
9.5-9.9: Great enough to play on your college radio set
9.0-9.4: Try playing this one on your guitar all night in your dorm room
8.5-8.9: The CD is pretty good but runs the risk of becoming mainstream
8.0-8.4: You should buy any green washed out retro t-shirts by this band
7.5-7.9: Good enough for maybe a sticker on your guitar case
7.0-7.4: Decent enough to talk about in the coffee shop
6.0-6.9: Needs more white guitarists with black-rimmed glasses
5.0-5.9: Might be good for a fratboy band, those neanderthals
4.0-4.9: Reviewer couldn't find any Cloves before writing and was angry
3.0-3.9: Too many unintelligent people might understand it
2.0-2.9: Curls up the ends of our bowl haircuts with shame
1.0-1.9: Did not cause a single tear to flow from our weepy eyes
0.0-0.9: That ain't Radiohead
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Sure, but Metacritic has some minimum number (6?) of reviews that an album must get from a list of recognized publications, so its not just random favorites of particular writers.
There are over 100 albums listed on the site, meaning that out of 100 albums reviewed by six or more publications, less than 1% of them are rated "below average." That just doesn't jive with reality.
why not think about it as an A-F school-type grading system where an A is 90-100, F is 0-60 ... that seems more like where most reviewers are coming from
plus, they're generally reviewing well-made albums which probably appeal to some section of fans somewhere, so that alone should lift it above a 5 on a 10 scale .... there are dozens of albums released every week that could be rated 1-5 on a 10 scale because they're just horribly recorded, written, and performed ... the ones actually reviewed by major media have largely passed those hurdles
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Originally posted by [username edited by p.c. moderator]:
Coming from the south, getting to Nissan is never that bad, no matter how late I try and get there. I go up 234 (I think) and take a left on wellington, and there's never, ever any traffic until that point, and from there it's only 20 minutes even if packed.
I always seem to luck out leaving as well. I think it only took me 20-30 minutes to get out of the parking lot to leave after Coldplay, and I didn't run out afterwards or anything (and again, going down 234 instead of 66 means there's virtually no one else around).
i would assume this is very different for, say, a big and rich show, than it would be for a coldplay show
i'm guessing for any of their big country shows that more people come from the west east and south than from the north
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
i would assume this is very different for, say, a big and rich show, than it would be for a coldplay show
i'm guessing for any of their big country shows that more people come from the west east and south than from the north
That maybe so, but since I do not listen to country music, we have no way to test that hypothesis.
I was simply offering this observation in thoughts that, if it takes the average DC-area chap 2.5-3 hours to get to/leave Nissan, perhaps they should consider going down 95 and coming my way. Sure, you back track 15 miles or so, but better 15 minutes then 3 hours, no?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Q: Which critics and publications are included in your calculations?
A: Magnet*
how the hell could they ever translate magnet's reviews into a point system ... those things are by far the most ambiguous reviews i read, and i often like them more than other reviews
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Originally posted by bearman:
I'm kind of surprised that a band like Travis never made it to where Coldplay is. If Coldplay can do this well in the States, then it's a bit of a puzzlement to me that Travis (who write better songs, are way more fun and funny, and cuter too) never found that audience that would take them to bigger venues and more album sales. They have more charisma and aren't as much of a downer. Of course, that last record of theirs was utter crap, but they had some decent songs early on, especially "Good Feeling" which is a great record.
agreed; but i also think Travis and Coldplay kind of hit around the same time. it's good ole' Nirvana and Soundgarden fun and games...
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Originally posted by you be betty:
Originally posted by bearman:
I'm kind of surprised that a band like Travis never made it to where Coldplay is. If Coldplay can do this well in the States, then it's a bit of a puzzlement to me that Travis (who write better songs, are way more fun and funny, and cuter too) never found that audience that would take them to bigger venues and more album sales. They have more charisma and aren't as much of a downer. Of course, that last record of theirs was utter crap, but they had some decent songs early on, especially "Good Feeling" which is a great record.
agreed; but i also think Travis and Coldplay kind of hit around the same time. it's good ole' Nirvana and Soundgarden fun and games... [/b]
travis has been around since 96. coldplay had an early EP out in 98. travis has been around for a bit longer. they just never hit it big (or as big) as coldplay in the states, but it seems they are plenty popular in the UK :)
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If Pumpkins and Coldplay were playing a double header...that would be the perfect time to demolish Nissan Pavillion.
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Add Travis to the bill, and I'll push down the plunger...
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just out of curiosity; does it cost the band more/do they make less if they were to play something like, 3-4 sold out nights at 9:30?
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Nissan holds 25,000
930 holds 1200
you do the math
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Nissan holds 25,000
930 holds 1200
you do the math
That's about 21 930 shows...
A couple of years back Tom Petty did an entire month at the Filmore in SF. I don't think you've ever done anything similar, have you? Not that it makes great business sense but it's an interesting idea, taking a pretty good selling artist and giving them an entire month of shows at the club. Hey that's all the rage in Vegas. They built brand new theatres for Celine and Elton. They don't have to lug their gear all over the country for a tour but they still charge the same amount for tickets and they play in the same place every night.
What great band can you convince not to go on tour but play a month of shows at the 930 instead???
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Good Charlotte?
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It took us 3 1/2 hours from Columbia, MD. I'll never do it again. Philly, NYC, here I come. At least the 3+ hour drive to New York would be worth it. Goddamn Virginia roads! What a backwards state!
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the problem is that, as many times as people say they're not going back there, they go anyway
so it's very hard to convince a band like Coldplay that people don't want to go there when the show sells out
believe me, I tried
and now they are able to say I was wrong, people will go there
and I'm thinking maybe they're right...I mean, they obviously are right
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
the problem is that, as many times as people say they're not going back there, they go anyway
so it's very hard to convince a band like Coldplay that people don't want to go there when the show sells out
believe me, I tried
and now they are able to say I was wrong, people will go there
and I'm thinking maybe they're right...I mean, they obviously are right
I go to around 12-15 shows a year, and I've still never been to Nissan, because of the traffic issues. I'll go to Baltimore, Philly, A.C., NY, even Vegas for shows, but no Nissan. there's never been a show there worth that fight. so there's one for you Seth. Tell Coldplay's management. Psyched for Wee Fighters/Foozer tomorrow.
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a little digging turns up
DC Music Management
1555 North Vine Street
Los Angeles, CA 90028 United States
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
the problem is that, as many times as people say they're not going back there, they go anyway
So Seth, is that your justification for giving people the shaft on the price of a yuengling?
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It's the wages of sin...the price that you must pay for even wanting to go and see Hanson &/or Tom Jones.
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Originally posted by Roadbike Mankie:
Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
the problem is that, as many times as people say they're not going back there, they go anyway
So Seth, is that your justification for giving people the shaft on the price of a yuengling? [/b]
no, but it's the same supply/demand theory...if sales drop, then we will obviously need to reconsider...you should quit buying it if it bothers you that much
when was the last time you remember the price of Yuengling changing?
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Originally posted by Roadbike Mankie:
Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
the problem is that, as many times as people say they're not going back there, they go anyway
So Seth, is that your justification for giving people the shaft on the price of a yuengling? [/b]
no, but it's the same supply/demand theory...if sales drop, then we will obviously need to reconsider...you should quit buying it if it bothers you that much
when was the last time you remember the price of Yuengling changing? [/b]
Oh, I stopped buying drinks at the 930 a long time ago Seth so it's no big deal at all for me. I stopped buying drinks, then stopped going to the club on a regular basis, then I moved away...so losing my business is not going to cause you to sell that Lear Jet you commute in! ;)
Besides, I've been saying exactly the same as you regarding the price of beer and the cost of a night out in general...stop whining and stop going or nothing will change, and I don't blame the club for making as much profit as you can....you're running a business for God's sake!
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Originally posted by Roadbike Mankie:
Oh, I stopped buying drinks at the 930 a long time ago
While I havent stopped completely, cold turkey, on Saturday I did my drinking at the Saloon. $6.50 for 20 oz of Double Diamond. I'd say that far improves upon the $6 yuengling. Didn't have any beer at 9:30 at all...on a Saturday night. That's a sea change for me. (I had a couple Heineken's at the Club on Friday, but mostly drank at DC9 -- $2 Yuengling between 9 and 10:00. Hot damn)
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Are you referring to this, kosmo? ;D
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Are you referring to this, kosmo? ;D
i think he was referring to a whole different website!
but this thread was funny as Seth seemed to get defensive and believe that the people who were complaining about Nissan were also the people going.
we could start that back up again, no problem! it was entertaining!
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speaking on entertaining in this thread:
wow. i have never been to the Nissan Pavilion and I have never heard anything good about it.
I would go if Radiohead was playing. thats probably it though.
great prediction, sonick! 3 years before it actually happened...
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I clicked on this thinking it was a new thread (I'm not a Coldplay fan and so for all I knew they may have just played Nissan). First thing I thought was....Oh, so now Colplay is even imitating Radiohead down to playing Nissan is awful weather/traffic.
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speaking on entertaining in this thread:
wow. i have never been to the Nissan Pavilion and I have never heard anything good about it.
I would go if Radiohead was playing. thats probably it though.
great prediction, sonick! 3 years before it actually happened...
I am a man of my word. and i will go to Nissan every year if Radiohead were to keep playing.
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ditto. and i'd follow the same strategy as i did last time: consider it a half-day affair, leave downtown before 3:00, and have lots of food & drinks in the cooler to help pass the time. but other than RH, daft punk, prince, and the like... fuhgetabodit.
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ditto. and i'd follow the same strategy as i did last time: consider it a half-day affair, leave downtown before 3:00, and have lots of food & drinks in the cooler to help pass the time. but other than RH, daft punk, prince, and the like... fuhgetabodit.
also, make sure you carpool. i cannot stress enough the differences of parking lot experiences between us, who parked in the "carpool lot" and those who didnt. we got out 2 hours earlier, easily.
everyone has 3 friends, right?
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true dat - there were 5 of us in the car, and we were given a spot about 150 feet away from the entrance. we left half-way through the last song and were were on 66 in 5 minutes flat.
mind you, RH is good about rewarding car-poolers and other do-gooders. i haven't heard of any other bands/tour doing this, therefore not sure if NIN/JA will be giving out primo parking to the enviros.
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speaking on entertaining in this thread:
wow. i have never been to the Nissan Pavilion and I have never heard anything good about it.
I would go if Radiohead was playing. thats probably it though.
great prediction, sonick! 3 years before it actually happened...
I am a man of my word. and i will go to Nissan every year if Radiohead were to keep playing.
not even radiohead would get me back to nissan. didn't bother going in 08... even though i've only been able to see radiohead once within 200 miles of my house. i'd rather take my money elsewhere. i've been to as many radiohead shows in canada as i have in this country. i'm certainly not one of those people who will say they won't go and then do so. nothing would get me back to dar either.
not even aphex twin.
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true dat - there were 5 of us in the car, and we were given a spot about 150 feet away from the entrance. we left half-way through the last song and were were on 66 in 5 minutes flat.
mind you, RH is good about rewarding car-poolers and other do-gooders. i haven't heard of any other bands/tour doing this, therefore not sure if NIN/JA will be giving out primo parking to the enviros.
(http://vogons.zetafleet.com/files/orly.jpg)
thats not a full time thing at Nissan?
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So here we go again...Coldplay playing on a weekday at Nissan.
If someone wants to go to this show and not miss even a single song, what time SHOULD he/she leave DC?! (this is not for me) ??
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So here we go again...Coldplay playing on a weekday at Nissan.
If someone wants to go to this show and not miss even a single song, what time SHOULD he/she leave DC?! (this is not for me) ??
from dc . . . if you haven't left by 2-3, or know the ways to totally bypass 66 . . . you're already late. traffic around the exits for nissan off 66 when that country music channel had a festival there was in-fing-sane. coldplay should be ten times worse.
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If someone wants to go to this show and not miss even a single song, what time SHOULD he/she leave DC?! (this is not for me) ??
the leave-by-3 rule doesn't apply because this show isn't sold out - at least a third of the lawn hasn't been sold, and there are plenty of pavilion seats left too (in fact, you can select GA pits and a pair of front row center reserved on LN.com! their "seat chooser" app is way cool). so you have a choice: leave at 4:00'ish and get there with an hour or two to kill in the parking lot. leave during rush hour (5:00) and probably get there in time for the second opener. leave at 6:00 and there is a chance that you'll miss some of coldplay - there will be a line to get from 66 to nissan by then.
enjoy your coldplay show, joe - hope you don't miss a single song :D
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So here we go again...Coldplay playing on a weekday at Nissan.
If someone wants to go to this show and not miss even a single song, what time SHOULD he/she leave DC?! (this is not for me) ??
Birds go flying at the speed of sound to show you how it all began. Birds plan to leave the office at around 3:00 or so; if you could see it then you'd understand.
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not sure yet if going to this show, but if we go, we are leaving DC between 5:30-5:45 pm!
will let you know if we miss anything :)
So here we go again...Coldplay playing on a weekday at Nissan.
If someone wants to go to this show and not miss even a single song, what time SHOULD he/she leave DC?! (this is not for me) ??
Birds go flying at the speed of sound to show you how it all began. Birds plan to leave the office at around 3:00 or so; if you could see it then you'd understand.
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I have to say, we left DC close to 6, and the worst of the traffic was in DC. We made it there in just over an hour, barely saw any traffic, got parking right near the entrance, and had amazing seats. Even leaving wasn't a problem. I think we waited in the parking lot for about 20 minutes before even starting the car, and it was a breeze getting out. It was surprisingly amazing.
could it be? the renaissance of Nissan Pavilion?
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t'was because the show wasn't sold out.
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yay! let's not demolish the Nissan pavillion, let's enjoy its rebirth! :P
ok i'm exaggerating, but taking route 66 to route 29 was the best "mistake" ever.
but sweetcell is right (partly), it wasn't sold out, so that explains why it was easy to get in and out of that parking lot.
however, the couple next to us left DC at 6 pm and got there around 8:30...! (they took route 66 all the way)