Author Topic: Running Diary: MTV After Hours  (Read 7583 times)

vansmack

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2003, 03:11:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by SueAndNotU:
  The thing is, I don't really believe that hip hop videos are necessarily going primarily for the black demographic.  Hip hop record sales are overwhelmingly propped up by white suburban kids, and the black hip hop culture has merged with white youth culture so much that the plain fact is that in mainstream music, hip-hop is what's cool for everybody.  ....  They're targeting the youth market.
There in lies the joke, now doesn't it?  I agree with you completely.  If it were true it wouldn't be as funny (for the two of you thought it was funny).  MTV has it all wrong.  They should have been targeting the youth, but they weren't.  They were blatantly targeting a different market.  
 
 When MTV first came out, it was all new wave for suburban kids.  Then Yo MTV raps came on, then head bangers ball and they began to segment to different audiences.  It seemed wise at the time, but eneded up being a disater.  Remember when they tried to do blocks of videos?  You would get 3 rap videos in a row with a little icon that said "Rock up next" and show a little clip of the rock videos that were coming up.  they were trying to appease the marketers who wanted to target to core audiences.  It was a disaster.  MTV couldn't keep anybody's attention and their rating s plummetted.  That's why they switched to shows instead of videos - they could keep more peoples attention for longer periods of time.  
 
 That's also why Carson Daly/TRL was so ingenius - they went after an age group and not a race.  every attempt MTV has made to do videos correctly has failed and I was trying to point this out less illustratively in the Diary.  I didn't give enough credit to my audience, obviously.  I was going the humor route and now the serious route.
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vansmack

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2003, 03:18:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  I don't know about religion, but these figures
  http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/race/black/tabs96/tab06-96.txt
 
  seem to indicate that 11.3% of white households have more than 4 people, whereas 20.1% of black households have more than 4 people in them. Seems like blacks do have larger households.
 
Marketing Companies don't look at statistics that broadly any longer.  Gee, they must want bigger couches and tables too because they have more people?  Nope.  It's a myriad of things these days including location, religion, income and age demographics as well as race.  That commercially is targeted more for an income level and not a race, though, and in some people's eyes wrongly, uses an african-american actress as the person who's phone is out.  I happen to think for marketing purposes, she was used correctly.
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Jaguär

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2003, 08:04:00 pm »
Smackie, I for one, got ever single word that you said and how it was intended. You have to remember though that you are in overly politically correct DC. A lot of these people have been very successfully brainwashed to jump on anyone who dares to even suggest the tiniest thing that goes against the PC party lines. The triggers have been deeply programmed into their psyches. They often assume all kinds of wrong ideas at the least little trigger without giving it any real thought as to the truth or intention.
 
 As you stated later, no one has a problem with targeting young females for tampon commercials. And I would bet that if someone bitched that some commercial or video targeted the White community that no one would say that it was racist, unless it's to claim that it excludes Blacks. But the fact is, in real life, quite often, birds of a feather DO flock together.....by CHOICE and not by exclusion. Deal with it people. All groups do it, not just one or two. The marketers know this and are smart enough to find those niches and appeal to their wants, needs and desires. Diversity sometimes includes little pockets of like groups. Accept them instead of trying to break them up or we women will call out the PC police and force all of you men to watch as much Sex And The City as we do or call you a bunch of mysogynists if you refuse.   :roll:  
 
 Where's Mankie? He'll love your work and take it for what it's worth...and nothing more.

obnoxia

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2003, 08:33:00 pm »
Granted that this is for the most part a lily- white folks board, I would be interested in hearing what other minorities think about topics like this that for whatever reason keep popping up on this board from time to time.

Bags

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2003, 11:54:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Jaguär:
  Smackie, I for one, got ever single word that you said and how it was intended. You have to remember though that you are in overly politically correct DC.
 
 Where's Mankie? He'll love your work and take it for what it's worth...and nothing more.
I'm completely on with Jaguar.  I thought the MTV late night/early morning video block (or, commercial block with videos) was great, funny and highly amusing.  What the hell has happened to MTV?  And the sad part is that it's slowly infiltrating MTV2 (it's already taken over VH1).  
 
 I was loving that MTV2 showed videos -- diverse videos with no commercials -- just a few years ago.  That's being lost, though they did bring Headbangers' Ball back!
 
 Question -- how does VH1 have a weekly top 20 videos show when they never show any videos???

Joymonster

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2003, 09:02:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
   
Quote
Originally posted by SueAndNotU:
  The thing is, I don't really believe that hip hop videos are necessarily going primarily for the black demographic.  Hip hop record sales are overwhelmingly propped up by white suburban kids, and the black hip hop culture has merged with white youth culture so much that the plain fact is that in mainstream music, hip-hop is what's cool for everybody.  ....  They're targeting the youth market.
There in lies the joke, now doesn't it?  I agree with you completely.  If it were true it wouldn't be as funny (for the two of you thought it was funny).  MTV has it all wrong.  They should have been targeting the youth, but they weren't.  They were blatantly targeting a different market.  
 
  [/b]
Maybe if the Rock music market starts to sell as much product as the R&B/ Hip-Hop market, then you'll see more "white music" on that channel. Could also be the reason why MTV-X was replaced with MTV-JAMS. I don't think it get's any more complex than that.

vansmack

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2003, 04:50:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
  Maybe if the Rock music market starts to sell as much product as the R&B/ Hip-Hop market, then you'll see more "white music" on that channel. Could also be the reason why MTV-X was replaced with MTV-JAMS. I don't think it get's any more complex than that.
Exactly.  Or how about this article suggesting that Kobe Brynat's recent arrest for sexual assault will actually help his "street credibility" in the sports marketing industry - it suggests that he might actually sell more shoes because he may be considered a "bad guy" (but of course it would never be politically correct to say that).
 
 http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2003/0707/1577650.html
 
 Dollars and social dynamics are driving MTV's choices as well - especially in commercials and video choices being lined up together.
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markie

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2003, 05:14:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
  Maybe if the Rock music market starts to sell as much product as the R&B/ Hip-Hop market, then you'll see more "white music" on that channel.
Is that what you would call a vicious circle?
 
 Or is it because hip-hop is still relatively young and vibrant compared to dinosaur rock?

Joymonster

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2003, 01:05:00 pm »
Or how about this article suggesting that Kobe Brynat's recent arrest for sexual assault will actually help his "street credibility" in the sports marketing industry - it suggests that he might actually sell more shoes because he may be considered a "bad guy" (but of course it would never be politically correct to say that).
 
 [/QB][/QUOTE]
 
 Out of curiosity, what would be the politically correct thing to say?

vansmack

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2003, 01:26:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
  Out of curiosity, what would be the politically correct thing to say?
"An athletes 'Street Credibility' has nothing to do with sales."
 
 That's what people want to believe and that's the outside voice of marketers.  You can put just about anything in between the single quotes that is controversial and get the same response:  race, beliefs, relgious persuasion,   It doesn't matter.  But we live in a country where these terms create issues, and it's not politically correct to state that these things matter.
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Joymonster

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2003, 05:30:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by the scientist:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
  Maybe if the Rock music market starts to sell as much product as the R&B/ Hip-Hop market, then you'll see more "white music" on that channel.
Is that what you would call a vicious circle?
 
 Or is it because hip-hop is still relatively young and vibrant compared to dinosaur rock? [/b]
I think it's just a cycle and Hip-Pop is the current flavor. Disposable catchy songs, stylish clothing, the lingo, and a few interesting personalities. A lot of the stuff that MTV plays is flamboyant and over-the-top, much like what Rock music USED to be. There just hasn't been an interesting rock band to make a huge memorable impression on the public over the past couple of years.

Joymonster

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2003, 05:56:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
  Out of curiosity, what would be the politically correct thing to say?
"An athletes 'Street Credibility' has nothing to do with sales."
 
 That's what people want to believe and that's the outside voice of marketers.  You can put just about anything in between the single quotes that is controversial and get the same response:  race, beliefs, relgious persuasion,   It doesn't matter.  But we live in a country where these terms create issues, and it's not politically correct to state that these things matter. [/b]
If anyone believes that "Street Cred" has nothing to do with sales, then I have a bridge to sell them.
 
 I'm not to sure that it can be a realistic idea in this day and age to say that it doesn't matter when it clearly does.
 
 But what kind of "Street Credibility" are you referring to? I mean, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, and to a point R. Kelly had some street credibility and more importantly, garnered some kind of respect until they were accused of variuos situations containing possible sexual assaults.

vansmack

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2003, 10:14:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
  If anyone believes that "Street Cred" has nothing to do with sales, then I have a bridge to sell them.
 
 I'm not to sure that it can be a realistic idea in this day and age to say that it doesn't matter when it clearly does.
 
 But what kind of "Street Credibility" are you referring to? I mean, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, and to a point R. Kelly had some street credibility and more importantly, garnered some kind of respect until they were accused of variuos situations containing possible sexual assaults.
Mike Tyson is the best example.  He pulls more money for pay per view fights than the current heavyweight champion, Lennox Lewis, who pummelled Tysons ass in their last fight.
 
 Why does Tyson draw so much?  Because you never know what he's going to do, but you can bet he's going to do something totally off thw wall and appalling.  And like biting someones ear off in the ring, it could be illegal.
 
 Look at Alan Iverson as well.  Reebok offered him a lifetime contract after he was arrested for the fracas outside the bar involving the gun.  Neither him nor LeBron James are as "polished" as Kobe so inner-city kids can relate better (to use the words right out of marketing companies mouths).  They use the word "polished" to describe the difference between KG and T-Mac who haven't been arrested, but didn't have the posh upbringing as Kobe.  Apparently, the kids can't relate.
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Joymonster

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Re: Running Diary: MTV After Hours
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2003, 09:29:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
  If anyone believes that "Street Cred" has nothing to do with sales, then I have a bridge to sell them.
 
 I'm not to sure that it can be a realistic idea in this day and age to say that it doesn't matter when it clearly does.
 
 But what kind of "Street Credibility" are you referring to? I mean, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, and to a point R. Kelly had some street credibility and more importantly, garnered some kind of respect until they were accused of variuos situations containing possible sexual assaults.
Mike Tyson is the best example.  He pulls more money for pay per view fights than the current heavyweight champion, Lennox Lewis, who pummelled Tysons ass in their last fight.
 
 Why does Tyson draw so much?  Because you never know what he's going to do, but you can bet he's going to do something totally off thw wall and appalling.  And like biting someones ear off in the ring, it could be illegal.
 
 Look at Alan Iverson as well.  Reebok offered him a lifetime contract after he was arrested for the fracas outside the bar involving the gun.  Neither him nor LeBron James are as "polished" as Kobe so inner-city kids can relate better (to use the words right out of marketing companies mouths).  They use the word "polished" to describe the difference between KG and T-Mac who haven't been arrested, but didn't have the posh upbringing as Kobe.  Apparently, the kids can't relate. [/b]
Tyson was a boxing icon at his height so that's where the interest for him comes from. At one point, he was thought to be unbeatable. Now, he's thought of as a side-show freak who constantly does something stupid. Reading and watching what Tyson does is interesting... almost in a way as watching someone who has Tourettes Syndrome.
 
 I think Iverson signed that extention shortly before that gun incident and before Reebok's financial troubles.
 
 Iverson has street cred because he was raised in the projects, had a criminal history of jail time before he was 19, and was pushing drugs and selling firearms before he hit college. To a some of urban youth, he's has more 'street cred' than Bryant. But at least their images weren't manufactured by any major corporations. Whether some like it or not, black urban youths are the current trend setters for stuff like music and fashion. More white kids buy those shoes than blacks kids.
 
 For the record, Kobe's shoes from Adidas are shit! They're ugly and have about as much tight performance as a pair of roller skates.