Author Topic: Barkitechture  (Read 14516 times)

snailhook

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2007, 12:51:00 pm »
Quote
Not true.[/b]
not completely untrue, either.
 
 while not owned by clear channel, they do business with live nation, unlike the black cat, 930, velvet lounge, warehouse next door, galaxy hut, iota, and birchmere. i believe the state theater was working with live nation for a bit but i'm not sure if they continue to do so. and by doing business, i mean that live nation is feeding shows to RNRH/DC9/R&B, though much more to the former than the latter two, mostly because of size.
 
 i'm sure callat703 can verify this.
 
 from the rock and roll hotel calendar archive:
 
 Dec 3rd 2006 Jeremy Enigk    
 
 Jeremy Enigk of Sunny Day Real Estate
 Cedars
 The Hard Tomorrows
 
 Proudly Presented by Live Nation
 *Advance Tickets for this event are also available at the Rock and Roll Hotel Box Office

snailhook

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2007, 01:00:00 pm »
and for those of you who think i'm full of shit, remember that i booked for these people for a year and a half and was initially asked to be the main booker at RNRH, but the pay offer was so pathetic i couldn't accept it. besides, i wish i never booked for them anyway, despite pulling off such amazing shows as whitehouse, DMBQ, USAISAMONSTER, pearls & brass, and the 20 buck spin festival. their politics and approach to live music just don't correlate with mine.
 
 and why am i saying this? because i feel that local bands, touring bands, and local music fans should be aware of these issues.

Sage 703

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2007, 01:06:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by snailhook:
     
Quote
Not true.[/b]
not completely untrue, either.
 
 while not owned by clear channel, they do business with live nation, unlike the black cat, 930, velvet lounge, warehouse next door, galaxy hut, iota, and birchmere. i believe the state theater was working with live nation for a bit but i'm not sure if they continue to do so. and by doing business, i mean that live nation is feeding shows to RNRH/DC9/R&B, though much more to the former than the latter two, mostly because of size.
 
 i'm sure callat703 can verify this.
 [/b]
Yes, this is true.  We've played two shows presented by Live Nation at the R&R Hotel.  Live Nation isn't Clear Channel, though.

kcjones119

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2007, 01:17:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by callat703:
   
Quote
Originally posted by snailhook:
     
Quote
Not true.[/b]
not completely untrue, either.
 
 while not owned by clear channel, they do business with live nation, unlike the black cat, 930, velvet lounge, warehouse next door, galaxy hut, iota, and birchmere. i believe the state theater was working with live nation for a bit but i'm not sure if they continue to do so. and by doing business, i mean that live nation is feeding shows to RNRH/DC9/R&B, though much more to the former than the latter two, mostly because of size.
 
 i'm sure callat703 can verify this.
 [/b]
Yes, this is true.  We've played two shows presented by Live Nation at the R&R Hotel.  Live Nation isn't Clear Channel, though. [/b]
No, but really close.  It spun off of Clear Channel in 2005:
 "As a previous subsidiary of Clear Channel Communications under the Clear Channel Entertainment name, Live Nation was party to some highly visible controversies. The 2005 SEC filing for the creation of Live Nation listed several reasons for pursuing the split, including avoiding regulatory and legal pitfalls faced by Clear Channel."

Sage 703

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2007, 01:19:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by kcjones119:
 No, but really close.  It spun off of Clear Channel in 2005:
 "As a previous subsidiary of Clear Channel Communications under the Clear Channel Entertainment name, Live Nation was party to some highly visible controversies. The 2005 SEC filing for the creation of Live Nation listed several reasons for pursuing the split, including avoiding regulatory and legal pitfalls faced by Clear Channel."
Also true. Live Nation is publicly owned now though.

dontdropbombs

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2007, 04:14:00 pm »
Hello folks,
 
 I've never posted on this forum before, and don't know all of you regulars, I feel inclined to throw in my two cents on this issue, for whatever that's worth.  I think this is a good conversation to be having right now on a highly relevant (not to mention very interesting) issue.    
 
 Although I don't know most of you, I'm a friend of snailhook and callat703 (and have collaborated with both of them musically), and since I'm a fan of the music that they both make, the environments in which my friends and I make music are of interest to me.  All of us (show-goers, musicians, all of the above) are affected by the way in which venues conduct their business and operate on a day to day basis.
 
 I wasn't at the Red and the Black on the night that the Barkitecture incident went down.  I've heard the story from the points of view of the band and from the club, and honestly I think that the level of disrespect towards the band is pretty alarming.  Beyond being treated badly from the get-go (apparently because of their age?), the bottom line is that there's no reason to ever push another person in the midst of a verbal arguement, period.
 
 And okay, maybe this particular bouncer is just a macho jerk, whatever- most distasteful to me is the lack of an appropriate response on behalf of the club following the incident.  This was a golden opportunity for the club to show that it cares about its patrons and the bands that they invite to play.  They could have set a positive example by taking some sort of disciplinary action towards the bouncer in question.  You know, just to say that pushing a young girl is not within their definition of acceptable behavior of the people they employ.
 
 Instead, the message that I gather from the club is "we can treat you however we want, and don't dare defend yourself, because we will ban you."  25 bands banished from these three venues in about a year?  I think it's fairly obvious who the common denominator is in all of this.
 
 I have had pleasant experiences in the past playing at DC9 as well as H Street clubs, and have attended loads of great shows there (granted, most of them were booked & managed by people who are no longer involved).  Obviously there are people who staff these places who care about music and work hard to create a comfortable atmosphere for people to enjoy hearing and playing music.  
 
 My personal concerns are more with the unnecesarily strict policy that excludes people under the age of 21, the silly 'door tally' system that is only really helpful to large-scale national acts and local bands (I've seen too many touring bands leave a crowded room with little more than $10 in their pockets to get them to their next destination), the apparent 'ban-happy' way of conducting business, and ultimately, the lack of concern for someone literally being pushed around by one staff member.
 
 It's important to me that the live music experience is one that is comfortable, inclusive, and fair.  A fundamental aspect of my being involved with music is the spirit of bands and venues working together to put on interesting/cool/enjoyable shows.  
   
 There are loads of venues in this area that are able to put on shows all the time without these freakishly frequent bannings- Galaxy Hut, Iota, Black Cat, 9:30, Velvet Lounge, Sangha, 611 Florida, and numerous other DIY and house venues.  
 
 Really, when was the last time you heard of anyone being banned from the Galaxy Hut?  I doubt it happens very often.  Why not?  Perhaps it's because the Hut is just one example of a venue that is run by and for fans of music, and where community is just as important as anything else.  
 
 I have no interest in willingly walking into a situation where I could potentially be treated as if I don't belong there- like what happened to Barkitecture.
 
 Music is sacred to me.  I imagine that music is sacred to mostly everyone else on this forum as well.
 
 Of course, these venues have the right to run their business in the way that they want to- more power to them.  By the same merit, I have the right to make the choice to not be a part of it.  My personal opinion is that patronizing these clubs basically amounts to acceptance of their ways of operating.  Thanks, but no thanks.  I am sure that they couldn't care less about whether or not my humble little band plays there.  This isn't really my concern.  My concern is in having a clear conscience about playing and hearing/seeing music in a way that I'm comfortable with.

snailhook

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2007, 05:07:00 pm »
callat703, if you say live nation has nothing to do with clear channel, i'm curious if this means that is has absolutely nothing to do with it, or is it a situation like "dick cheney does not currently work for halliburton"? is there any puppeteering going on, so to speak? any wizard of oz action?
 
 regardless of whether live nation has any relation to clear channel, i know that the owners of the rock and roll hotel, politically, would have no problem dealing with clear channel, and that's what disturbs me. simply put, i am not on the same page as they are, and neither is a large portion of dc.

Sage 703

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2007, 05:16:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by snailhook:
  callat703, if you say live nation has nothing to do with clear channel, i'm curious if this means that is has absolutely nothing to do with it, or is it a situation like "dick cheney does not currently work for halliburton"? is there any puppeteering going on, so to speak? any wizard of oz action?
 
 regardless of whether live nation has any relation to clear channel, i know that the owners of the rock and roll hotel, politically, would have no problem dealing with clear channel, and that's what disturbs me. simply put, i am not on the same page as they are, and neither is a large portion of dc.
From my understanding, Live Nation is completely independent of Clear Channel.  Anybody doing any business in radio is working with Clear Channel, so I know they work together in that respect.  But as far as company ties go?  Completely independent from everything that I know.

snailhook

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2007, 05:35:00 pm »
thanks.

Jaguar

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2007, 11:00:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by callat703:
  From my understanding, Live Nation is completely independent of Clear Channel.  Anybody doing any business in radio is working with Clear Channel, so I know they work together in that respect.  But as far as company ties go?  Completely independent from everything that I know.
From my understanding, that's not quite accurate.
 
 Please bare with me because I don't know the lingo and how all this exactly works so my explanation will be very weak.
 
 From how I heard some lawyer/DJ explain it the day it happened, Clear Crap got into some kind of mess with the Feds and owning too much stuff, or something like that. They had to sell some things or break it all up somehow. That's when they appeared to sell off a lot of stock or whatever. The thing is, they still kept the control within the Mays family.
 
 Essentially, if you look at one chain of links, it looks like it was broken off to a smaller or even a different company. But if you look at it from a different angle, the Mays family still control it all and yes I mean Live Nation. Maybe it's one of those blind trust things where they just place it in someone else's name. Either way, Live Nation is still some sort of entity or is in some way connected to Clear Crap. They claim it isn't using the shorter chain angle but stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, it's all part of the same corporate family crap.
 
 G, glad to have you here! Always great to have another one of our side of the DC area music scene around.     :D
#609

J5RootsKweliJ5

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2007, 11:04:00 pm »
<img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1438/793262115_dd49f72211.jpg">

J5RootsKweliJ5

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2007, 11:05:00 pm »
<img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1438/793262115_dd49f72211.jpg" alt=" - " />

pela123

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2007, 02:07:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by don't drop bombs:
 [QB]
 
 I wasn't at the Red and the Black on the night that the Barkitecture incident went down.  I've heard the story from the points of view of the band and from the club, and honestly I think that the level of disrespect towards the band is pretty alarming.  Beyond being treated badly from the get-go (apparently because of their age?), the bottom line is that there's no reason to ever push another person in the midst of a verbal arguement, period.
 
 And okay, maybe this particular bouncer is just a macho jerk, whatever- most distasteful to me is the lack of an appropriate response on behalf of the club following the incident.  This was a golden opportunity for the club to show that it cares about its patrons and the bands that they invite to play.  They could have set a positive example by taking some sort of disciplinary action towards the bouncer in question.  You know, just to say that pushing a young girl is not within their definition of acceptable behavior of the people they employ.
 
 Instead, the message that I gather from the club is "we can treat you however we want, and don't dare defend yourself, because we will ban you."  [QB]
 
 You weren't there, so you don't know what happened, and the City Paper didn't do a good job of defining what happened.  First of all there was no "bouncer" and no girl was "pushed".  There had been trouble with underagers in bands trying to drink in the past, so the rules were outlined to barkitecture (hands have to be xed, don't drink, --nothing that extreme or out of the ordinary) This was followed by--that aside, we hope you have a good time and a great show.  I thought they were a good band, and actually contacted snail cause I thought it was a shame that they couldn't really get the audience they deserved since the club is 21 and over.  The problem came with the band's underage friends who tried to get in, and then caused a fuss when they weren't allowed.  The Red and the Black has had some great bands who were under 21 or had under 21 members, all of whom behaved professionally and had a great time. There is no policy or attitude against anyone underage. However, the reality is, there will always be a few people who cause a scene and ruin things for everyone else (hence having to outline strict rules for people under 21).  I agree that there is never any need to push in the case of the argument that occurred, but it needs to be remembered that it was the so-described "pacifist" band that threw a person through a glass window.  That is something that is completely unacceptable by anyone, of any age.  The reason that the calls went out to other venues warning of this situation was because no one wants to see something like this  reoccur in any of the other music venues throughout town, or see people we know and care about get hurt.

Sage 703

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2007, 02:27:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Jaguar:
  From my understanding, that's not quite accurate.
 
 Please bare with me because I don't know the lingo and how all this exactly works so my explanation will be very weak.
 
 From how I heard some lawyer/DJ explain it the day it happened, Clear Crap got into some kind of mess with the Feds and owning too much stuff, or something like that. They had to sell some things or break it all up somehow. That's when they appeared to sell off a lot of stock or whatever. The thing is, they still kept the control within the Mays family.
 
 Essentially, if you look at one chain of links, it looks like it was broken off to a smaller or even a different company. But if you look at it from a different angle, the Mays family still control it all and yes I mean Live Nation. Maybe it's one of those blind trust things where they just place it in someone else's name. Either way, Live Nation is still some sort of entity or is in some way connected to Clear Crap. They claim it isn't using the shorter chain angle but stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, it's all part of the same corporate family crap.
 
 G, glad to have you here! Always great to have another one of our side of the DC area music scene around.      :D  
After further review - the companies do share some members on their Boards of Directors, notably the Mays family that Jaguar points out.  But they have different CEOs/CFOs, and to the best of my knowledge, do not have formal ties beyond those relationships.  Both are publicly traded - Clear Channel is CCU, while Live Nation is LYV.

ggw

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Re: Barkitechture
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2007, 02:33:00 pm »
As of yesterday, the Mays family holdings of Live Nation were:
 
 Lowry Mays 5.423% of all outstanding shares
 Mark Mays 0.315%
 Randall Mays 0.242%