Congrats Vansmack!

[Guiny]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
 if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year. [/QB]

Unfortunetely, I would have to agree with you there. Unless we sign Randy Johnson and another stud. As for Pavano, he's a great young prospect, but I think pitching in hitter friendly Boston might rattle him a little. Florida was much more pitcher friendly.

[keithstg]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
   

Originally posted by keithstg:
 Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287   [/b]

I hate this idea, he is a jackass and should not be signed for more than two years by any team. Let him stay with the rest of those clowns. He disrespects The Babe and headhunts our best players. Well if he does sign, Sheffield won't have to walk far to break him in half.     :cool:    
 
 
 Sonick's gotta like the idea that the Sox are talking with Carl Pavano. [/b]

like him or not, he was 16-9 last year.
 
   and i LOVE that we're talking to Pavano.
 
  if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year. [/QB]

16-9, era near 4. Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 
 Pavano (the Pride of Southington, CT.) will be a big score for whomever signs him.
 
 Signing Pavano and keeping Martinez (and Varitek)may prove impossible given their payroll limits (if they keep the range they are stating now).

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

A losing record if he's on the O's?
 
 So are you saying Pavano is not as good as Rodrigo Lopez?
 
 
 

Originally posted by keithstg:
   

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
     

Originally posted by keithstg:
 Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
     http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287    [/b]

I hate this idea, he is a jackass and should not be signed for more than two years by any team. Let him stay with the rest of those clowns. He disrespects The Babe and headhunts our best players. Well if he does sign, Sheffield won't have to walk far to break him in half.      :cool:    
 
 
 Sonick's gotta like the idea that the Sox are talking with Carl Pavano. [/b]

like him or not, he was 16-9 last year.
 
   and i LOVE that we're talking to Pavano.
 
  if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year. [/b]

16-9, era near 4. Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 
 Pavano (the Pride of Southington, CT.) will be a big score for whomever signs him.
 
 Signing Pavano and keeping Martinez (and Varitek)may prove impossible given their payroll limits (if they keep the range they are stating now). [/QB]

[keithstg]

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  A losing record if he's on the O's?
 
 So are you saying Pavano is not as good as Rodrigo Lopez?
 
 
   

Originally posted by keithstg:
   

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
     

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
     

Originally posted by keithstg:
 Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
      http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287     [/b]

I hate this idea, he is a jackass and should not be signed for more than two years by any team. Let him stay with the rest of those clowns. He disrespects The Babe and headhunts our best players. Well if he does sign, Sheffield won't have to walk far to break him in half.       :cool:      
 
 
 Sonick's gotta like the idea that the Sox are talking with Carl Pavano. [/b]

like him or not, he was 16-9 last year.
 
   and i LOVE that we're talking to Pavano.
 
  if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year. [/b]

16-9, era near 4. Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 
 Pavano (the Pride of Southington, CT.) will be a big score for whomever signs him.
 
 Signing Pavano and keeping Martinez (and Varitek)may prove impossible given their payroll limits (if they keep the range they are stating now). [/b]

[/QB]

I was talking about Pedro, actually. Pavano is much, much better than Rodrigo Lopez, as you know.
 
 The larger point is that apart from stellar run support Pedro had a decent, but not great, season. Certainly not one worth $15M a year, eespecially considering his injury history. Sure, Pedro MIGHT have had a winning record on the O's, but with an ERA around 4 relative to the amount of runs that the O's scored this year, it's not likely.
 
 FWIW, the O's will be below .500 yet again next season. Care to make that wager now?

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by keithstg:
   Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 

we're talking about him playing for the Yankees.
 
  you think he wont have a winning record there?
 
 
  trust me, Toronto isn't picking up Martinez. unless they dropped the rest of thier pitching staff!

[keithstg]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   

Originally posted by keithstg:
   Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 

we're talking about him playing for the Yankees.
 
  you think he wont have a winning record there?
 
 
  trust me, Toronto isn't picking up Martinez. unless they dropped the rest of thier pitching staff! [/b]

I was talking about his year in general, because 16-9 seems like an impressive record. But looking at the rest of his statistics, he really didn't have that great of a year. As I mentioned, were Pedro to have pitched for a team that scored fewer runs per game, he would likely not have finished 16-9.
 
 I'm under no illusion that Toronto is interested in Pedro, it was just an example. Was it confusing?
 
 As for the Yankees, I'm sure that if Pedro came to NY he would have a winning record. But for $15M a year, the Yankees could get somone younger, who had a better season, and wasn't on the downside of their career. 16-9, 3.90 isn't a bargain for $15M.
 
 And the Yankees already have one pain in the ass starting pitcher who is old and injury prone. We don't need another.

[ratioci nation]

Jeff Suppan (16-9) would take $10 million, but he is still on 3rd base.

[Guiny]

I just talked to a buddy of mine from work who is also a Yankee fan. He said if the Yankees sign Pedro he's sending all his Yankees stuff to Steinbrenner. This will not be a popular move. True Yankee fans HATE Pedro, He's an ass. And don't bring Clemens name up cause Yankee fans at least respected Clemens when he was with Boston.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by keithstg:
 
 And the Yankees already have one pain in the ass starting pitcher who is old and injury prone. We don't need another.

really?  surely they seem to like having old injury prone pitching.  i thought that was thier GP.
 
   and looking further. Pedro's year, was only so-so compared to previous years.
 
   and 3.90 in a hitter's ballpark is not THAT bad. maybe like a 2.90 in Florida.
 
  plus, run support in Martinez's 9 losses avg 2.66 compared to 5.93 in his 16 wins.
 
   lets face it, the Sox have never won with pitching (til this past postseason!) we've survived with pitching, and won it with our bats.
 
  anyway, i am rambling.

[keithstg]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
 [/qb]

and looking further. Pedro's year, was only so-so compared to previous years.
 
   and 3.90 in a hitter's ballpark is not THAT bad. maybe like a 2.90 in Florida.
 
 [/QB][/QUOTE]
 
 This was the point I was making in the first place. For $17.5M this year, that's not enough performance. The Sox's team era was 4.18. Pedro at 3.90 isn't much better than the average.
 
 3.90 in a hitters ballpark wouldn't be that bad, IF fenway was one of the premier hitters parks in the league. There are 10 teams with stadiums that have a higher hitters park factor than Fenway. Regarding his era being a full run lower in florida, Florida's park factor dictates that his era would likely be .15 lower at most. With the benefit of being in the NL Pedro's era would likely fall further, but not to one run a game different.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by keithstg:
 

This was the point I was making in the first place. For $17.5M this year, that's not enough performance. The Sox's team era was 4.18. Pedro at 3.90 isn't much better than the average.
 
 3.90 in a hitters ballpark wouldn't be that bad, IF fenway was one of the premier hitters parks in the league. There are 10 teams with stadiums that have a higher hitters park factor than Fenway. Regarding his era being a full run lower in florida, Florida's park factor dictates that his era would likely be .15 lower at most. With the benefit of being in the NL Pedro's era would likely fall further, but not to one run a game different. [/b][/QUOTE]
 
 GEEK.

[vansmack]

Can we get back on point?
 
 Anaheim's Mr. Clutch earns MVP
 
 --------------------------------------------------
 By Tony Gwynn
 Special to ESPN Insider
 
 The American League MVP race was wide open, but I expected Vladimir Guerrero to win it (his first). I thought the vote would be closer, though. Guerrero got 21 of 28 first-place votes.
 
 Some Boston Red Sox fans aren't happy, I read online, because they felt that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz (who finished third and fourth) should have gotten more recognition for their World Series-winning season. But the MVP award only takes into account the regular season.
 
 The top five vote-getters figure to be in the MVP race again next year. Gary Sheffield (second place) and Miguel Tejada (fifth) had tremendous years. And all their clubs should be in the hunt next year, which bolsters anyone's MVP candidacy.
 
 In his first year with the Anaheim Angels -- after signing as a free agent last offseason -- Guerrero helped lead the Angels to the AL West crown. He had a .337 average, 39 home runs and 126 RBI.
 
 Guerrero led the league in runs and total bases, and he was Mr. Clutch coming down the stretch, getting big hits and driving in big runs. The day the Angels clinched the AL West, Guerrero hit a two-run homer. He deserves the MVP.
 
 Guerrero was an outstanding player in the National League, but lots of people never saw him because he played for the Montreal Expos.
 
 I didn't expect AL pitchers to give him any more trouble than NL pitchers had, and I'm not surprised he excelled this year in Anaheim. Historically, when talented players switch leagues, few have problems with the transition.
 
 At 28 years old, Guerrero is such a natural. He doesn't have to hit strikes to be successful. He's a premium player, and he'll continue to be a premium player for a long time.
 
 There's nothing in Guerrero's game or swing that needs improving. He doesn't have much, if anything, to work on, even though he's young. For him, the challenge each year has been to maintain his excellence, and he's done just that.
 
 Guerrero had some back problems last year, but I was surprised more teams didn't show interest last offseason when he was on the open market. Lots of people thought he'd end up on the East Coast, maybe with the New York Yankees.
 
 But he went to Anaheim, played in 156 games and became the cornerstone of the lineup ... and now he's the MVP.
 
 
 ESPN analyst Tony Gwynn was a 15-time All-Star in his 20 years with the Padres.

[keithstg]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   

Originally posted by keithstg:
 

This was the point I was making in the first place. For $17.5M this year, that's not enough performance. The Sox's team era was 4.18. Pedro at 3.90 isn't much better than the average.
 
 3.90 in a hitters ballpark wouldn't be that bad, IF fenway was one of the premier hitters parks in the league. There are 10 teams with stadiums that have a higher hitters park factor than Fenway. Regarding his era being a full run lower in florida, Florida's park factor dictates that his era would likely be .15 lower at most. With the benefit of being in the NL Pedro's era would likely fall further, but not to one run a game different. [/b]

GEEK. [/b][/QUOTE]
 
 Who are you, tinygee?

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by keithstg:
 
 
 Who are you, tinygee?

haha.  i didnt say "fucking geek loser"
 
 just geek. some people think thats a compliment, and i didnt necessarily mean it otherwise  

[keithstg]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   

Originally posted by keithstg:
 
 
 Who are you, tinygee?

haha.  i didnt say "fucking geek loser"
 
 just geek. some people think thats a compliment, and i didnt necessarily mean it otherwise    [/b]

Oh, I was just kidding anyway...