Author Topic: nobody died when Clinton lied...  (Read 8404 times)

grotty

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2004, 04:48:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.
 
Maybe he is then:
 
 "So what happened? How did Bush & Cheney get it so wrong? There are only two possibilities. Either they didn't understand the intelligence they were given, or they willfully cherry-picked through the intelligence in order to make the strongest case possible for war. In other words, they were either incompetent or dishonest. Either way, Bush is responsible."
 
 -Bill Press
 Bush Must Go
 
 *that's* the reason he will not get my vote. It wouldn't matter if he was democrat, repub, libert, communist, or martian.

Venerable Bede

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2004, 04:54:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by grotty:
  Maybe he is then:
 
 "So what happened? How did Bush & Cheney get it so wrong? There are only two possibilities. Either they didn't understand the intelligence they were given, or they willfully cherry-picked through the intelligence in order to make the strongest case possible for war. In other words, they were either incompetent or dishonest. Either way, Bush is responsible."
 
 -Bill Press
 Bush Must Go
 
dude, i wouldn't take my political opinions from bill press, that would be like me taking my opinions from rush (which i don't, although some of his ties were nice). . .anyway, the either/or proposition has been thrown out the window by derrida and the deconstructionists.
OU812

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2004, 04:59:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.
 
 
Well he didn't fool everyone base on this documentary, which is a must see IMHO
 
   <img src="http://www.truthuncovered.com/images/uncoveredlogosm.jpg" alt=" - " />
T.Rex

grotty

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2004, 04:59:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   
dude, i wouldn't take my political opinions from bill press[/QB][/QUOTE]
 
 **************************
 
 I agree & I don't. It's just a nice concise summary of what I view as the bottomline. And I had to give him credit.
 
 Bush is ultimately responsible for making a poor misguided decision to go war. A war that has killed 1,000s, including over 1,000 Americans  since Bush declared 'victory'. And he's showing a startling inability or unwillingness to clean up the mess that he made.
 
 There's no getting around the argument here. He either lied or made a HUGE mistake. CEO's get fired for less. So should a president.

Herr Professor Doktor Doom

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2004, 05:08:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Clinton wasn't impeached for fooling around.  He was impeached for perjury - for lying under oath.
 
 Details, details, details.......
that still in no way compares to being responsible for killing tens of thousands, and your insistence that it does again illustrates my point that conservatives are unable to grasp big issues.  
 
 I guess I'd better repeat it again to get it through a couple of the thicker skulls here:  nobody died when Clinton lied.  Perjury over a BJ still doesn't kill anyone.
_\|/_

grotty

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2004, 05:18:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.
 
 He not only fooled the entire U.S. intelligence community, he also hoodwinked British intelligence, German intelligence, John Kerry, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, etc...
 
 Wow!  W is a fucking superhero with mind control powers.
 
 Maybe coke is still his kryptonite.
   
Changing the subject a bit, but:
 
 ggw, you seem intelligent and thoughtful. Our opinions on the upcoming vote differ. Much like mine do with many other people I know. The question I have that I can't get answered from any of them regarding their intent to vote for Bush though is WHY?
 
 Throw out party affiliation. What are the good reasons for voting for him? I'm being serious & want to have a balanced thoughtful process on this. But I can't come up with ANYTHING. I'm not normally strongly affiliated with any party or even usually very political. This just has me so intensely concerned.
 
 Why are ~ 50% of Americans actually going to vote for him?

Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2004, 05:20:00 pm »
I think perhaps the answer is, as Mankie and Markie have been saying all along...is that Americans are stupid (or at least 50% of them).
 
 Damn, it hurts to have to admit that Mankie was right about something.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by grotty:
   
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.
 
 He not only fooled the entire U.S. intelligence community, he also hoodwinked British intelligence, German intelligence, John Kerry, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, etc...
 
 Wow!  W is a fucking superhero with mind control powers.
 
 Maybe coke is still his kryptonite.
   
Changing the subject a bit, but:
 
 ggw, you seem intelligent and thoughtful. Our opinions on the upcoming vote differ. Much like mine do with many other people I know. The question I have that I can't get answered from any of them regarding their intent to vote for Bush though is WHY? Throw out party affiliation.
 Are there good reasons for voting for him? I'm being serious & want to have a balanced thought process on this. But I can't come up with ANYTHING. I'm not normally strongly affiliated with any party or even usually very political. This just has me so intensely concerned.
 
 Why are ~ 50% of Americans actually going to vote for him? [/b]

ratioci nation

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2004, 05:20:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by grotty:
   
 
 Why are ~ 50% of Americans actually going to vote for him?
just to nitpick, make that 50% of people who actually vote

ggw

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2004, 05:24:00 pm »
I don't think he made a misguided decision to go to war.  There are plenty of people - on both sides of the proverbial political fence - who acknowledge that, at the time, the intelligence on Iraq pointed to continuing WMD programs.
 
 The argument against going to war, at the time, was not based on the belief that there were no WMDs in Iraq, it was based on the belief that increased inspections would be enough to contain Iraq.  That fact seems to be conveniently forgotten and people act as though the rest of the world was claiming that the WMD didn't exist.
 
 Alternatively, many people who spend the majority of their time talking about Bush being a complete and utter moron who can't utter a complete sentence, conclude that Bush was lying and, despite having an IQ below 100, that he was able to pull of the greatest con job in U.S. political history, fooling Gore, Kerry, and every last one of his fiercest political opponents, as well as German intelligence, who concluded that Iraq could have a bomb in three years, and British intelligence.  Even Chirac stated that Iraq was building weapons.
 
 The problem, in my opinion, was not in those "reasons" for war, but in the absolutely horrible execution of the war. The administration went with the Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz "war on the cheap" philosophy rather than the Powell "overwhelming force" method, which would likely have avoided the casualties we are seeing now.
 
 So if you want to lambaste Bush for mismanagement of the Iraq war, go right ahead.  You won't get an argument from me.
 
 But when people continuously parrot trite crap like "Bush's war for his Daddy" they simply come across as partisan crackpots who are no different than those who found Vince Foster's death to be just one of a hundred murders committed by Clinton.
 
 That's why Bush is still showing strength in the polls.  It's not that Bush is unabashedly loved by the majority of Americans, it's that the misguided, misinformed nonsense being spewed forth by the activist left frightens people away from Kerry.

Bags

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2004, 05:25:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by grotty:
  CEO's get fired for less.
You know I agree with you, grotty....
 
 But, CEO's actually get bonuses and/or huge exit packages for fucking up this much....It's sick.

ggw

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2004, 05:26:00 pm »
Please show me where I "insisted" the two were comparable acts.
 
 I'll save you the trouble -- I didn't.
 
 Comprehend much?
 
   
Quote
Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
  that still in no way compares to being responsible for killing tens of thousands, and your insistence that it does again illustrates my point that conservatives are unable to grasp big issues.  
 
 I guess I'd better repeat it again to get it through a couple of the thicker skulls here:  nobody died when Clinton lied.  Perjury over a BJ still doesn't kill anyone.

grotty

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2004, 05:26:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by pollard:
   
Quote
Originally posted by grotty:
   
 
 Why are ~ 50% of Americans actually going to vote for him?
just to nitpick, make that 50% of people who actually vote [/b]
Good pt - polls can only measure intent and numbers currently registered.
 That's why I think (hope) that Kerry will actually win more easily than expected. There have to be many other people out there like me that normally don't get too imvolved, but feel that it's absolutely necessary this year. And will vote at all cost.

Bags

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2004, 05:32:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 It's not that Bush is unabashedly loved by the majority of Americans, it's that the misguided, misinformed nonsense being spewed forth by the activist left frightens people away from Kerry.
I don't get that...I'm not saying you're wrong, because something's not working as it should on the Kerry campaign, but I don't get it.  Even if the anti-war rhetoric is one-sided, how does that frighten someone away from Kerry?
 
 Personally, my vote against Bush has virtually nothing to do with Iraq.  Though I believe the way the administration keeps using the fight against terrorism for the reason to have gone in (since the WMDs didn't show up) is pathetic, ill-conceived and calculated, it's all the other stuff I have problems with.  I think GW is more evangelical than most believe or even consider in terms of how he makes decisions & policy on domestic and international policy.  There is very little room for 'freedom' of any stripe in his plan.

ratioci nation

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2004, 05:39:00 pm »
I personally believe (and I know I am not the only one) that Kerry is doing poorly because Dems are not good at staying on the offensive.  They seem to think that people will see through political attacks against Kerry.  If you look at how Carville and Stephanopolous ran the 1992 campaign, they were always reacting right away when anything new came out.  They did not just sit back and let the Bush Sr. campaign dictate everything.  Kerry needs to stop running around playing up the good soldier bit and actually run an active campaign.  Clinton had much more potential campaign disasters than Kerry has had but escaped much better than Kerry is.
 
 GGW, I remember you saying before the primaries were over that Kerry-Edwards was the ticket that could knock off Bush.  Is it really the left that is causing the ticket not to work in your opinion?

Bags

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Re: nobody died when Clinton lied...
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2004, 05:39:00 pm »
Someone here may find this of interest:
 
 RATED R: REPUBLICANS IN HOLLYWOOD How do confirmed conservatives function in the liberal stronghold of show business? That question is examined in this documentary by a former Democratic speechwriter, Jesse Moss. He produces a number of outspoken right-wing entertainers, including Patricia Heaton of "Everybody Loves Raymond," the comic Drew Carey and, of all things, a game-show host, Pat Sajak.
 AMC, Tuesday at 10.