scalpers and market efficiency

[sweetcell]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  So, it's better to force the ~95% of consumers who don't currently pay scalper's prices to pay those inflated prices just to cut off the scalpers?

wait - is ggw arguing against free market economics?!?  economic liberals would say that scalpers prices aren't inflated, they're at market equilibrium.  by offering tickets at less than that equilibrium price, there is an inefficiency.  prices should be raised.  that would be the theory.  the reality is that it still sucks.
 
 and yes, i'd rather have more money go to the artist than scalpers.  i prefer basing my purchase decision on the price that the artist sets.  seeing van halen isn't worth $150 to me, so i don't buy.
 
 my ideal solution is cutting out more of the scalpers.  too easy for any shmuck anywhere to buy tickets and resell them, no intention of or ability to attend required.  when there are 10 scalpers for every person who can actually attend the event, the prices will be driven up artificially.  it's a false demand.  
 
 overall, i've calmed down a little on the scalper issue - because i've been able to pick up several cheap tickets from wannabe scalpers who had to dump their tickets.

[sonickteam2]

you really think Jay-Z is charging $100 a ticket cause he doesnt like scalpers??
 
 please.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by le sonick:
  please.

I know there's an appropriate "nigga please" joke in here somewhere, it's just not coming to me....

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by le sonick:
  please.

I know there's an appropriate "nigga please" joke in here somewhere, it's just not coming to me.... [/b]

must.....think.......harder....

[ggw]

Economic liberalism would argue against government interference in setting prices, but would not necessarily be against one of the participants (i.e., artists) freely selling at levels below fair market prices.  
 
 So, if the artists and producers are the ones getting screwed by scalpers, why haven't they all raised their prices to equilibrium levels?

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

If I'm reading things right, he luuuuuuvs scalpers. There the ones enabling him to charge $100.
 
 

Originally posted by le sonick:
  you really think Jay-Z is charging $100 a ticket cause he doesnt like scalpers??
 
 please.

[sweetcell]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Economic liberalism would argue against government interference in setting prices, but would not necessarily be against one of the participants (i.e., artists) freely selling at levels below fair market prices.  

we're in total agreement.  artists do indeed have the right to charge whatever they want, including "below market" prices  (i believe in a past scalping thread, i said exactly this and you disagreed... wish there was a search function). furthermore, i'll add that fans should have the ability to benefits from those prices without having leeches cut in front of the line and mark up those tickets.
 
   

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  So, if the artists and producers are the ones getting screwed by scalpers, why haven't they all raised their prices to equilibrium levels?

they're not getting screwed, they're making a business decision.  sometimes it's hard to gauge demand, sometimes artists want to charge as little as economically possible, sometimes they're just dumb.
 
   

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
  If I'm reading things right, he luuuuuuvs scalpers. There the ones enabling him to charge $100.
 
   

Originally posted by le sonick:
  you really think Jay-Z is charging $100 a ticket cause he doesnt like scalpers??
 
 please.

[/b]

i'm pretty sure rhett is being faceatious here, and i certainly hope sonick is too.  scalpers aren't enabling high prices, demand from fans are fueling those prices.  all the scalpers in the world wouldn't allow JZ to charge $10,000 a ticket, right?  and in a complete absence of scalpers (will-call only, must enter venue upon getting a ticket, one ticket per customer, etc), JZ would still sell out small venues at $100 a pop.

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

Only in your DC101 world would Ramshead Live be considered a "small venue".   :p

[sweetcell]

don't listen to DC101, and never have.  don't listen to music radio at all.
 
 newsflash for all suburban-dwelling government-working former-socially-connected hipsters: for Jay-Z (i.e. the context i was writing in), RHL is a very small venue.  he sells out places ten times as big.

[sonickteam2]

the problem with scalpers is that they can sometimes create a "false" higher demand.
 
  When tickets sell out faster because scalpers yank up the tickets, it makes the tickets seem ultra scarce. even though hundreds are still available, they have gone from being available at one select location (be it the box office or ticketmaster.com) to several locations scattered around.
 
  When a show sells out in minutes with tickets costing $40, ebay and CL tickets can go for $200 and up in the first 2 days, then drop back for even under $100 after that and then perhaps shooting back up a bit as the show date nears.
 
   Is this normal market demand? or do scalpers create a false panic in consumers causing the price to shoot up with people thinking there are no tickets left for sale.
 
   I like the idea of the will call only sales in a way, but if you buy tickets and cannot use them, it creates a problem with getting rid of them. If i buy tickets to a show in December and when it comes, i cant go, i'd lke to be able to sell them for face value or even a bit cheaper to recoup some of my money.
 
   I know some artists have gone to auctioning off their best seats to the highest bidder. That seems cool, and even giving some of the proceeds to charity and stuff as to not appear greedy.
 
   Who should sit in the front row of a show: The people with the most money? or people with the fastest fingers?
 
    some questions may never be answered!

[ggw]

Originally posted by sweetcell:
  furthermore, i'll add that fans should have the ability to benefits from those prices without having leeches cut in front of the line and mark up those tickets.
 

You are now arguing against free market economics.  If the seller has made a conscious decision to sell below market price, then there is nothing wrong with arbitrageurs coming in and profiting on this inefficiency.

[manimtired]

do you guys really get screwed over/out on tix so much that you think about this so much?

[BookerT]

rhett might be the only one who agrees with me (dangerous sign, i know), but any show that scalpers are actively seeking out is not worth going to in the first place.

[sweetcell]

Originally posted by le sonick:
  the problem with scalpers is that they can sometimes create a "false" higher demand.

could not agree more.  
 
 i wish there was some way for the promoters/ticket sellers to ensure that only folks who actually want to go to the show get first crack at tickets.  impossible to prove/enforce, of course, and i suspect some people would go ape-shit and cry human rights violation if anyone tried.

[ggw]

Originally posted by manimtired:
  do you guys really get screwed over/out on tix so much that you think about this so much?

No.  That was my point in the original thread.  If artists raise the original price to match the scalper's price, then you have 100% of the people paying the scalper's prices 100% of the time rather than the small group of people who pay them now.  That's not an economic argument, that's just an observation.