Things Smackie Thinks You Need to Know...

[vansmack]

So which would have to happen first for Americans to embrace trains?
 
 (1) The price of trains would have to be equal or less than airfare, or
 
 (2) The travel times of trains must improve greatly to rival planes, or
 
 (3) Both.
 
 Plane versus train: a one-sided contest
 
 FLYING is becoming more expensive, but a new comparison of American journeys made by plane, train and automobile makes the skies look relatively friendly. CSA Travel Protection, a San Diego-based insurance company, examined the costs and travel times of different modes of travel on selected routes. Some of their findings:
 
 Phoenix to San Diego
 Â·  Plane: $124, 2.5 hours
 Â·  Train: $300, 33 hours
 Â·  Auto: $106 (712 miles), 11 hours
 
 Cincinnati to Washington, DC
 Â·  Plane: $467, 3 hours
 Â·  Train: $148, 28.5 hours
 Â·  Auto: $155 (1,044 miles), 17 hours
 
 Grand Rapids to New York
 Â·  Plane: $401, 4.5 hours
 Â·  Train: $286, 48 hours
 Â·  Auto: $221 (1,494 miles), 23.5 hours
 
 The calculations assume a solo traveller using the most direct route and round-trip tickets where applicable. For trainsâ??shown at a particular disadvantage in this study as the selected cities are not on direct routesâ??the time includes waits between transfers.
 
 Apart from the alarming possibility of travelling for 48 hours and staying in the same country, the most depressing observation provoked by this study is that in many circumstances airlines really do have us over a barrel. While thereâ??s a lot to be said for the road trip and the dining car, the prospect of journey times over ten hours means most travellers won't be giving up flying any time soon, no matter what surcharges and fare increases are thrown their way.

[sweetcell]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 For trainsâ??shown at a particular disadvantage in this study as the selected cities are not on direct routesâ??the time includes waits between transfers.

heh, that's the crux - they went out of their way to make trains look bad by picking train-unfriendly routes.  for travel from NYC to major cities on the northeast coast, for example, trains are definitely the way to go.  it's both cheaper and faster for me to take the train than a flight.
 
 these numbers include the assumption that airports add only an hour of time (getting there, checking in, security, etc...). depending how far away you live from the airport and the time of day, that can be a pretty big assumption.  my workmates who fly in every week leave the office about 2 hours before their flight (and no, they're not bailing on work to go drink at the airport lounge               ). train stations tend to have better, more centralized location.  
 
 and let's not forget how comfortable economy class  has become nowadays... i totally heart amtrak with its bigger seats that recline farther, wider aisles, bigger bathrooms, dinner car, electricity plug-ins at every seat, etc.
 
   

Originally posted by vansmack:
  So which would have to happen first for Americans to embrace trains?
 
 (1) The price of trains would have to be equal or less than airfare, or
 
 (2) The travel times of trains must improve greatly to rival planes, or
 
 (3) Both.

for two of the three cases cited above, trains are notably cheaper... so there's half the equation.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sweetcell:
  heh, that's the crux - they went out of their way to make trains look bad by picking train-unfriendly routes.  for travel from NYC to major cities on the northeast coast, for example, trains are definitely the way to go.

Really?  I'm pretty sure that trains from Boston to DC are the ONLY place in the US where trains are working.
 
 I'm not sure if it's the crux, but I'm pretty sure your counter example is just as guilty of being an extreme example.
 
 DC to Pittsbugh for example?  Should not be nearly as difficult as it is.
 
 To show one of their examples that I didn't think was extreme, San Diego to Phoenix? Should not be nearly as difficult as it is.  33 Hours?
 
 San Francisco to LA?  Not possible without taking a bus.  No excuse for that.

[godsshoeshine]

i remember when i first moved here i looked into a dc to nyc train and it cost 3x as much as a plane

[vansmack]

BTW, am I the only one that wants to see Joba pitch a gem for 7 innings and then have the Yankees blow it in the 8th inning in each one of his starts this season?

[ratioci nation]

Portland-Seattle is a nice train route, cheap and drops you off in downtown pdx or downtown seattle right outside qwest field and near safeco

[walkonby]

it's like some speak easy coffee shop in here.  where are the hash brownies?  behind the counter?

[vansmack]

Originally posted by walkonby:
  it's like some speak easy coffee shop in here.  where are the hash brownies?  behind the counter?

I keep those in the freezer.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by pdx pollard:
  Portland-Seattle is a nice train route, cheap and drops you off in downtown pdx or downtown seattle right outside qwest field and near safeco

True and good point.  3 Hours for $30 and a really pretty ride at that.

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

The problem with trains is that we've let Republicans, Libertarians, and other stupid people get away for years with claiming that trains need to make a "profit" in order to be worthwhile.  
 
 Nobody makes that argument about highways.  They receive public funds because they are a public good.  Trains should be treated the same way, and receive the level of public funding necessary to upgrade them to the level of service and speed they have in Japan and other modern countries.

[sweetcell]

holy eff, doomey... never thought of that.  excellent point.

[kosmo vinyl]

another problem with passenger trains is they now share in many instances the same tracks as unscheduled freight trains which have the right away... so the next time your delayed getting to NYC on Amtrak you can thank that CSX train for getting in your way.
 
 did anyone read that City Paper story about the guy who try to get NYC via train without Amtrak? shame about that 30 miles between Perryville and Wilmington were he had to rely on spotty public bus transportation to make the connection between MARC and SEPTA
 
 http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/printerpage.php?id=35550

[kosmo vinyl]

and funnily enough... kosmette, who is riding MARC to Baltimore these days, says that the train she takes daily went from almost empty to pretty much full very recently.

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
  The problem with trains is that we've let Republicans, Libertarians, and other stupid people get away for years with claiming that trains need to make a "profit" in order to be worthwhile.  
 
 Nobody makes that argument about highways.  They receive public funds because they are a public good.  Trains should be treated the same way, and receive the level of public funding necessary to upgrade them to the level of service and speed they have in Japan and other modern countries.

actually, i would argue that republicans and libertarians would prefer amtrak privatized rather than be subject to federal funding.

[godsshoeshine]

and roads as well?