Author Topic: 1984  (Read 27165 times)

godsshoeshine

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Re: 1984
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2009, 10:46:34 am »
how would you feel if your parents were on a forum with this thread?
o/\o

kosmo vinyl

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Re: 1984
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2009, 10:51:28 am »
how would you feel if your parents were on a forum with this thread?

it would be torture cause I'd have to explain to them what a internet forum is all about :p
T.Rex

walkonby

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Re: 1984
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2009, 10:56:29 am »
uhmmm, torture.


sonickteam2

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Re: 1984
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2009, 10:57:32 am »
this thread fits my definition of torture.  lol
.

 Hear hear!

So go to another thread.   ::)


  well, i will now, but i came here thinking I was gonna get some cool George Orwell conspiracy shit.

instead i got political doucheness and a whole crunkload of "lolz"


godsshoeshine

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Re: 1984
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2009, 10:58:36 am »
lol gtfo
o/\o

walkonby

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Re: 1984
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2009, 11:02:52 am »
thank you obama.  sorry i yelled at you earlier in some other thread.


manimtired

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Re: 1984
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2009, 11:13:58 am »
thank you obama.  sorry i yelled at you earlier in some other thread.



OMG..not a bug in a box!!!!!! im so ashamed of my country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bush you evil, evil man!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol.

nkotb

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Re: 1984
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2009, 11:16:04 am »
Dude, is it one of these things:



Because those things freak me out.  I'd be so scared, I'd even divulge kissing my cousin in the 2nd grade.  Just not that all of my cousins are boys.  Oops.

OMG..not a bug in a box!!!!!! im so ashamed of my country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bush you evil, evil man!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol.

Sage 703

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Re: 1984
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2009, 11:19:45 am »
Ahh, and the landscape just becomes more and more clear:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html

WASHINGTON ? The Bush administration applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist.

Such information would've provided a foundation for one of former President George W. Bush's main arguments for invading Iraq in 2003. In fact, no evidence has ever been found of operational ties between Osama bin Laden's terrorist network and Saddam's regime.

The use of abusive interrogation ? widely considered torture ? as part of Bush's quest for a rationale to invade Iraq came to light as the Senate issued a major report tracing the origin of the abuses and President Barack Obama opened the door to prosecuting former U.S. officials for approving them.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney and others who advocated the use of sleep deprivation, isolation and stress positions and waterboarding, which simulates drowning, insist that they were legal.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld demanded that the interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq collaboration.

"There were two reasons why these interrogations were so persistent, and why extreme methods were used," the former senior intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity.

"The main one is that everyone was worried about some kind of follow-up attack (after 9/11). But for most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there."


It was during this period that CIA interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees repeatedly ? Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 ? according to a newly released Justice Department document.

"There was constant pressure on the intelligence agencies and the interrogators to do whatever it took to get that information out of the detainees, especially the few high-value ones we had, and when people kept coming up empty, they were told by Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people to push harder," he continued.

"Cheney's and Rumsfeld's people were told repeatedly, by CIA . . . and by others, that there wasn't any reliable intelligence that pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam, and that no such ties were likely because the two were fundamentally enemies, not allies."

Senior administration officials, however, "blew that off and kept insisting that we'd overlooked something, that the interrogators weren't pushing hard enough, that there had to be something more we could do to get that information," he said.

A former U.S. Army psychiatrist, Maj. Charles Burney, told Army investigators in 2006 that interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention facility were under "pressure" to produce evidence of ties between al Qaida and Iraq.

"While we were there a large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between al Qaida and Iraq and we were not successful in establishing a link between al Qaida and Iraq," Burney told staff of the Army Inspector General. "The more frustrated people got in not being able to establish that link . . . there was more and more pressure to resort to measures that might produce more immediate results."

Excerpts from Burney's interview appeared in a full, declassified report on a two-year investigation into detainee abuse released on Tuesday by the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., called Burney's statement "very significant."

"I think it's obvious that the administration was scrambling then to try to find a connection, a link (between al Qaida and Iraq)," Levin said in a conference call with reporters. "They made out links where they didn't exist."

Levin recalled Cheney's assertions that a senior Iraqi intelligence officer had met Mohammad Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers, in the Czech Republic capital of Prague just months before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

The FBI and CIA found that no such meeting occurred.

A senior Guantanamo Bay interrogator, David Becker, told the committee that only "a couple of nebulous links" between al Qaida and Iraq were uncovered during interrogations of unidentified detainees, the report said.

Others in the interrogation operation "agreed there was pressure to produce intelligence, but did not recall pressure to identify links between Iraq and al Qaida," the report said.

The report, the executive summary of which was released in November, found that Rumsfeld, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and other former senior Bush administration officials were responsible for the abusive interrogation techniques used at Guantanamo and in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Rumsfeld approved extreme interrogation techniques for Guantanamo in December 2002. He withdrew his authorization the following month amid protests by senior military lawyers that some techniques could amount to torture, violating U.S. and international laws.

Military interrogator, however, continued employing some techniques in Afghanistan and later in Iraq.

Bush and his top lieutenants charged that Saddam was secretly pursuing nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in defiance of a United Nations ban, and had to be overthrown because he might provide them to al Qaida for an attack on the U.S. or its allies.

(John Walcott and Warren P. Strobel contributed to this article.)

manimtired

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Re: 1984
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2009, 11:27:00 am »
"A former senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue" LOL!

and

"http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html"

double LOL!

in other news...what do you think this latest push against bush anc co is all about?  hmmmm..


Sage 703

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Re: 1984
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2009, 11:30:36 am »
manimtired, I couldn't ask for a better example of the Sarah Palin/Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity GOP.  Thanks!

manimtired

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Re: 1984
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2009, 11:33:24 am »
i couldnt ask for a better example of far left/bush derangement syndrome/keith olberman. ty.

kosmo vinyl

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Re: 1984
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2009, 11:35:48 am »
uhmmm, torture.



you call that torture, i call it a typical night in the Vinyl household.... the only thing missing is an iPhone so i can twitter during the experience
T.Rex

manimtired

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Re: 1984
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2009, 11:36:12 am »
i mean doesnt the world already regard bush as hitler and an evil torturer? why bring this all up again?  even though its starting to backfire on the messiah.  oops!

Sage 703

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Re: 1984
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2009, 12:52:11 pm »
Ahh...it just gets better. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22detain.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all

Long article, so I won't reprint the whole thing.  But the intro section sums it up:


...In a series of high-level meetings in 2002, without a single dissent from cabinet members or lawmakers, the United States for the first time officially embraced the brutal methods of interrogation it had always condemned.

This extraordinary consensus was possible, an examination by The New York Times shows, largely because no one involved ? not the top two C.I.A. officials who were pushing the program, not the senior aides to President George W. Bush, not the leaders of the Senate and House Intelligence Committees ? investigated the gruesome origins of the techniques they were approving with little debate.

According to several former top officials involved in the discussions seven years ago, they did not know that the military training program, called SERE, for Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape, had been created decades earlier to give American pilots and soldiers a sample of the torture methods used by Communists in the Korean War, methods that had wrung false confessions from Americans...

 Even George J. Tenet, the C.I.A. director who insisted that the agency had thoroughly researched its proposal and pressed it on other officials, did not examine the history of the most shocking method, the near-drowning technique known as waterboarding.

The top officials he briefed did not learn that waterboarding had been prosecuted by the United States in war-crimes trials after World War II and was a well-documented favorite of despotic governments since the Spanish Inquisition; one waterboard used under Pol Pot was even on display at the genocide museum in Cambodia.

They did not know that some veteran trainers from the SERE program itself had warned in internal memorandums that, morality aside, the methods were ineffective. Nor were most of the officials aware that the former military psychologist who played a central role in persuading C.I.A. officials to use the harsh methods had never conducted a real interrogation, or that the Justice Department lawyer most responsible for declaring the methods legal had idiosyncratic ideas that even the Bush Justice Department would later renounce.

The process was ?a perfect storm of ignorance and enthusiasm,? a former C.I.A. official said.

***