McChrystal Article

[godsshoeshine]

oh the examiner, you so crazy

[Mobius]

McChrystal f*cked up.  Pubic perception called into question Obama's leadership in military affairs.  Obama responds with the only politically correct move.  Really simple. 

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

Before he became president, what were Obama's qualifications to be commander in chief, and why did he think he deserved the job with no military experience? The media had the responsibility to ask those questions in 2008 but didn't.

(Speaking slowly, as if to a child):  The whole reason the President is Commander in Chief is the founders recognized the importance of civilian control of the military.   

[James Ford]

I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying, but why is it that people always want to quote the founders, as if everything that was relevent and applicable 235 years ago is still relevant and applicable today? As if the founders have some kind of hallowed moral and philosophical standing that we always need to look to? Those founders mowed down lots of Native Americans, and owned lots of slaves, too.

Before he became president, what were Obama's qualifications to be commander in chief, and why did he think he deserved the job with no military experience? The media had the responsibility to ask those questions in 2008 but didn't.

(Speaking slowly, as if to a child):  The whole reason the President is Commander in Chief is the founders recognized the importance of civilian control of the military.   

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying, but why is it that people always want to quote the founders, as if everything that was relevent and applicable 235 years ago is still relevant and applicable today? As if the founders have some kind of hallowed moral and philosophical standing that we always need to look to? Those founders mowed down lots of Native Americans, and owned lots of slaves, too.

Yeah, but the parts of the Constitution that allowed them to mow down Native Americans and own slaves have subsequently been amended (although I guess the Second Amendment, originally colloquially called the "Mow Down Native Americans Amendment," unfortunately still stands).   The part of the Constitution that provides for civilian control of the military has not changed.

I think it's also worth noting that many of the types who question Obama's qualifications to be Commander in Chief had no such qualms about Dubya, even though Dubya's main qualification was his skill at military-like posturing.

[runwhiteyrun06]

I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying, but why is it that people always want to quote the founders, as if everything that was relevent and applicable 235 years ago is still relevant and applicable today? As if the founders have some kind of hallowed moral and philosophical standing that we always need to look to? Those founders mowed down lots of Native Americans, and owned lots of slaves, too.

Before he became president, what were Obama's qualifications to be commander in chief, and why did he think he deserved the job with no military experience? The media had the responsibility to ask those questions in 2008 but didn't.

(Speaking slowly, as if to a child):  The whole reason the President is Commander in Chief is the founders recognized the importance of civilian control of the military.   

Just like all the gun nuts like to quote their constitutional 2nd amendment rights when the pinnacle of military technology in the late 18th century was a smooth bore musket that would take 30 seconds at best to reload.

[vansmack]

(Speaking slowly, as if to a child):  The whole reason the President is Commander in Chief is the founders recognized the importance of civilian control of the military.   

Wasn't our first President a General?

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

(Speaking slowly, as if to a child):  The whole reason the President is Commander in Chief is the founders recognized the importance of civilian control of the military.   

Wasn't our first President a General?

(Speaking slowly as if to a child, again):  Yes our first president was a General; that doesn't mean that military experience is a prerequisite for the job, it just means that he happened to have it.

[godsshoeshine]

[vansmack]

(Speaking slowly as if to a child, again):  Yes our first president was a General; that doesn't mean that military experience is a prerequisite for the job, it just means that he happened to have it.

I was not pointing out that military experience should be a pre-requisite, but instead that if our founding fathers really wanted to "maintain civilian control" as you have eluded here, they would have banned military leaders from being President, which they didn't do.

Instead, what they did do was split control of the military between two of the three pillars of our Democracy, with oversight of the third.  What they wanted to point out was not that a civilian should be in control, but instead that the military has a place in our democracy, but is not as important as the Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch or the Judicial Branch.

It doesn't matter if they're civilian or a military person so long as they're elected by the people, cannot unilaterlaly declare war without authorization from Congress and maintains all decisions within the bounds of the Constitution, as reviewed by the Supreme Court.

[vansmack]

Oh, and McChrystal did not f#ck up.  He wanted to get fired.  His interview and susequent comments indicate that he wanted to end his tenure in charge of the Afghan campaign and quitting was not an option for him.  This was a very calculated move leaving Obama no choice but to fire him.  To make this political is to join the silly grandstanding.

He had his say, he had his day, and the President is right to move on. 

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

If you are serving in the office of President, you are by definition not active duty military, and therefore you are serving in a civilian capacity, even if you have a military background.

And the idea that McChrystal wanted to get fired is ridiculous.  His staff wanted to get fired too, I suppose?   Now he is leaving the military.  Why not just resign?

A much more sensible explanation is that McChrystal dissed his civilian leaders once before in front of the press and got away with it (and he also got away with his role in the Tilman cover up).    He freely admitted lacking respect for Obama -- so he thought that this too, he could get away with.   Reportedly when he came to the White House he didn't even have a resignation prepared.

Finally, the very few people who are hand-wringing over his departure seem to overlook the fact that the war itself is going badly.   Even if McChrystal hadn't made this gaffe he would have been eligible for removal.

[vansmack]

If you are serving in the office of President, you are by definition not active duty military, and therefore you are serving in a civilian capacity, even if you have a military background.

Now you're just being silly.  Once in the military, always in the military, especially if you reach the rank of General, which at least a dozen of our Presidents have.  I'm sure when they were elected to office, they simply "forgot" all of that military training now that they are "civilians" with the election.

The notion that you have to have military experience to be President is as silly as the notion that you become a civilian as soon as you're elected President if you come from the Military.

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

If you are serving in the office of President, you are by definition not active duty military, and therefore you are serving in a civilian capacity, even if you have a military background.

Now you're just being silly.  Once in the military, always in the military, especially if you reach the rank of General, which at least a dozen of our Presidents have.  I'm sure when they were elected to office, they simply "forgot" all of that military training now that they are "civilians" with the election.

The notion that you have to have military experience to be President is as silly as the notion that you become a civilian as soon as you're elected President if you come from the Military.

You really have no idea what you're talking about.   If you're not in the military, you are a civilian.    You cannot be in the military and hold another full time job, whether it's President or Car Wash Specialist.  You should stick to discussing your latest cell phones.

[Mobius]

I totally agree that mccrystal wanted to go. Its the only explanation for such an obvious mistake.  You don't get where he got without some political savvy.  It was a f*ck for a person in his position . . .but seemingly not for him personally.  So do we see Palin/McCrystal 2012?  'We won't quit on democracy . . .just on alaska and the armed forces'