Author Topic: The Baseball Thread  (Read 9789 times)

chaz

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2011, 04:20:17 pm »
Riggleman quit??? 

Riggleman quits as Nationals manager
By Washington Post editors
Jim Riggleman has resigned as manager of the Washington Nationals. Rigglman told General Manager Mike Rizzo that he would resigne before the game if his contract situation was not resolved.

?Jim told me pregame today that if we wouldn?t pick up his [contract] option that he wouldn?t get on the team bus today,? Rizzo said at a news conference after the Nationals defeated the Seattle Mariners 1-0, lifting the team to a winning record.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 04:23:01 pm by chaz »

hutch

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2011, 05:01:29 pm »
Unbelievable..who quits mid contract.. ? I've never heard of that happening when you're winning...
Had he kept winning he'd have gotten his extension and a nice raise


seems unprofessional to me.... but who knows

vansmack

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2011, 07:14:01 pm »
Had he kept winning he'd have gotten his extension and a nice raise

How do you know this?

The guy wins 11 games in a row and they won't even talk to him about his option.  If not then, when?  He'll never coach again, but I don't think anyone will take a one year deal from the Nationals again either, let alone 3 of them.
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hutch

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2011, 07:40:26 pm »
Had he kept winning he'd have gotten his extension and a nice raise

How do you know this?

The guy wins 11 games in a row and they won't even talk to him about his option.  If not then, when?  He'll never coach again, but I don't think anyone will take a one year deal from the Nationals again either, let alone 3 of them.

First of all he had a contract he wilingly signed! He basically bailed on his contract!

I think if he'd kept winning the pressure on the team to retain his services- at worse- would have led to him being rehired.. at best Rizzo/Lerners would have concluded he was a good manager.. Lets face it : if the Nats had finished over 500 he'd have been a contender for Manager of the Year.. those guys don't usually get let go..


Moreover, its just plain terrible to leave your team in a ditch like that....someone else summed it up on a baseball board;


I'd like to know who has the true story.

Mike Rizzo is saying Riggleman gave him an ultimatum while Riggleman is saying Rizzo wouldn?t even have a conversation about the contract situation with him.

But it still doesn?t change the fact that fault lies with both men. BUT more fault lies with Jim Riggleman. Rizzo is the GM and Riggleman is the manager. Rizzo evaluates his employees while Riggs manages the Nats. If Riggs did a good job leading this team the rest of the season then he will be rewarded with the contract after the season. Just because Rizzo didn?t want to talk to Riggs about the contract doesn?t mean he didn?t want him back. But Riggs took it as the Nats didn?t want him. You have to go through trials and tribulations to get what you want. You earn what you achieve. Even if Riggleman felt like he was being wronged, don?t you as a man need to just stick it out to the end? This is a contract situation and it has NOTHING to do with the poor players. These guys battled and fought hard for him all year long, and he just walks out on them? The bottom line is you do not walk out on your players in the middle of the season just because you?re not getting what you want. It?s about the team, not you.

by rachel216 on Jun 23, 2011 6:02 PM EDT reply   

hutch

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2011, 07:44:32 pm »
before the nats won 11 of 12 i was not convinced they should retain riggleman.. one winning streak did not change my mind


if I were Rizzo I wouldn't have in good conscience been able to tell him more than "if you guys keep winning you better bet your bottom dollar we'll give you a multi year contract".. but I wouldn't have guaranteed that based on one winning streak!

vansmack

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2011, 07:59:41 pm »
Don't misconstrue what I'm saying.  I'm not defending Riggs' action, but I think it's wrong that everyone keeps blaming him for this.

How many managers in baseball have had 3 consecutive one year deals?  Only Riggleman knows what that's like.  Nobody knows better than he did if he was ever going to get a long term deal and he knew that AT BEST he was going to get one more deal of one year IF the Nats exercised the option.  It wasn't like Rizzo said "Hey Riggs, we're working on a long term deal, in the meantime, we'll exercise this option."  The Nats wouldn't even commit to the option, which didn't include a raise. Maybe the mental anguish was too much, maybe he just had enough - job security means a lot when there's that much scrutiny at your position.  And frankly, I can't blame him really.  Should he have have gone about it differently? perhaps.  But the end result?  Makes a little bit of sense to me.

And don't give me this contract crap and walking out on the players.  I'm sure Riggleman could rattle off the names of two dozen players that were under contract FOR HIS TEAM that put themselves before everyone else and held out at one time or a another.  This time it just happened to be a manager....   
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lagas

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 09:24:45 pm »
interesting

"Riggleman focused on himself by quitting when there are three months left in the season, when the team is hot and improving and when he was still under contract for the rest of 2011. Keep winning and keep nurturing the club's less experienced players (Ian Desmond, Danny Espinosa, Roger Bernardina, Jordan Zimmermann, et al.) and the contract situation would have resolved itself."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/joe_lemire/06/23/riggleman.leaving.nationals/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp
zorra

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2011, 10:12:07 pm »
Had he kept winning he'd have gotten his extension and a nice raise

How do you know this?

The guy wins 11 games in a row and they won't even talk to him about his option.  If not then, when?  He'll never coach again, but I don't think anyone will take a one year deal from the Nationals again either, let alone 3 of them.

Jim Riggleman is fucking lucky he wasn't fire three weeks ago when the team was the second worst in the NL. In fact, I bet Riggleman doesn't even get the liquid courage to approach Rizzo without this streak. What was he gonna tell Rizzo? "I'm the second worst career manager in the bigs with the second worst team in the NL. I DEMAND AN EXTENSION!" Give me a fucking break.

If the team stays in the playoff hunt and misses the playoffs late in September, he's coming back. Yeah, his contract sucked and he was fucking BITTER all season but he had a golden opportunity to write his own ticket.

I liked Riggleman as a person, but wasn't a huge fan of his managing. He straight up overplayed his hand, got all fucking emotional, did something stupid like throw down an ultimatum, and it got him exactly what he wanted. He didn't want to fucking manage for the Lerners under that contract, no matter how well they were playing.

Extremely disappointed in Jim Riggleman tonight. I thought he knew better than that.

vansmack

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2011, 12:03:10 am »
interesting

"Riggleman focused on himself by quitting when there are three months left in the season, when the team is hot and improving and when he was still under contract for the rest of 2011. Keep winning and keep nurturing the club's less experienced players (Ian Desmond, Danny Espinosa, Roger Bernardina, Jordan Zimmermann, et al.) and the contract situation would have resolved itself."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/joe_lemire/06/23/riggleman.leaving.nationals/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp


The same guy also said this:

Admittedly, Riggleman was reportedly only receiving $600,000 in compensation -- believed to be the majors' smallest managerial contract now that the Marlins' Edwin Rodriguez had already resigned -- could have been perceived as a small slight. The Nationals' reluctance to extend Riggleman or negotiate a longer-term deal despite the club's short-term on-field improvement also suggests that they had designs on someone else to take the team to the next level. If true, that shows a lack of loyalty, especially after Rizzo complimented the team's play under Riggleman last week.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 12:07:19 am by vansmack »
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hutch

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2011, 12:55:12 am »
the more i think about this the more stupid riggleman seems...


the word is the nats are going to ask team "consultant/adviser" davey johnson to take over... i been following baseball for decades and to me thats an upgrade so i hope its true...

vansmack

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2011, 01:04:28 pm »
In Buster I Trust:

For Riggleman, an ultimatum gone awry
June, 24, 2011
JUN 24 8:07 AM ET

Before Thursday's chain of events, the first words that I would have used to describe Jim Riggleman -- after covering him for two seasons as manager in 1993 and 1994 and knowing him for almost two decades -- would be Organizational Man.

He has been as old-school as old-school gets, always painting inside the lines prescribed by his employers, rarely straying off the team message, never publicly ripping players or tossing verbal flares like Ozzie Guillen.

Two years after I covered Riggleman, I was working at the Baltimore Sun when Davey Johnson took over as the Orioles' manager. He was brash and political through his Texas grin, taking on Cal Ripken when he wanted to move him to another position, taking on owner Peter Angelos. Sometimes I think Davey caused a stir just because he thought it was fun.

So it felt like we stepped through a looking glass on Thursday; white was black and black was white. Riggleman would have been one of the last managers I would have ever guessed would walk away from his job in midseason over a contract dispute, and yet he's headed to his Florida home. And sources say that it's the impetuous Johnson -- who probably would have been one of the most likely candidates to walk away from a team in an argument over money, as he did in the fall of 1997 -- who will get the first shot to replace Riggleman, if Johnson wants it.

Adding to the Wonderland feel of all this is the fact that the Nationals are playing the best baseball in the short Washington history of their franchise; they are a team on the rise.

Riggleman's ultimatum to Washington general manager Mike Rizzo was delivered at about 12:20 on Thursday afternoon, before the Nationals were set to play the Mariners. Riggleman had wanted his 2012 option picked up and had repeatedly asked Rizzo about that; Rizzo has repeatedly told him that it was something he would address after the season.

Perhaps Riggleman's flare-ups with Jayson Werth and Jason Marquis this season fueled the manager's concern over the impact of his lame-duck contract situation. Riggleman has always believed that it's a lot more difficult to be credible in the eyes of players if you don't have a contract for at least one year beyond the current season; I've had that conversation with him many times in the past.

But Rizzo told Riggleman he wasn't going to talk about 2012, and he wasn't going to meet about it in Chicago. That's when Riggleman told him that if it wasn't addressed, at least in a substantive conversation, then he wasn't getting on the team bus to begin Washington's road trip.

For virtually every executive in the majors, them's fighting words. For Riggleman, there was principle at stake -- he felt he deserved to have his contract option for 2012 picked up because of the performance of the team. For Rizzo, there was principle at stake -- there was no way he was going to be strong-armed in a contract situation by threat of resignation. You're saying you will resign? Then go ahead and resign.

After the game, Rizzo returned to Riggleman's office and asked him if he felt the same way; Riggleman said yes. And Rizzo replied, "Then we accept your resignation." And Rizzo immediately convened a meeting of the players and informed them of Riggleman's decision to walk away; within a few minutes, the scene in the clubhouse was surreal, with Riggleman talking to a crowd of reporters while the players prepared for their road trip.

Having known Riggleman for so long, I can write with confidence that this was a decision he had thought about -- a decision that had gnawed at him -- for weeks. He didn't wake up Thursday morning and suddenly choose that day to draw a line in the sand; this was burbling within him for a long time. He would not have quit unless he was sure it was the right thing to do.

But his choice has already hurt his reputation in a big way, with many rival executives saying privately that what he did -- walking away in midseason over a contract dispute -- is unacceptable. One high-ranked executive went so far as to say he would never hire Riggleman as a minor league manager, let alone a big league manager, because his choice showed a total lack of judgment. "I don't know if it's much different than what Manny Ramirez did," said a GM, referring to the events of 2008, when Ramirez forced his way out of Boston by basically quitting on the field.

The irony, of course, is that the Nationals' managerial job is increasingly looked at as a plum, as a position you want, because the team is loaded with talent and continues to get better. Washington is developing anchors to its rotation with Jordan Zimmermann and Stephen Strasburg; it has a young, powerful closer in Drew Storen; and its everyday lineup could include Ryan Zimmerman, Werth, Danny Espinosa, Anthony Rendon and Bryce Harper within a couple of years.

Some rival officials also expressed surprise that Rizzo and the Washington ownership couldn't have finessed this a little bit and defused the crisis with some sort of conversation. But Rizzo can't worry about that now; he has to move on, with John McLaren taking over as the short-term interim.

Sources say Rizzo is looking for an interim manager for the rest of the 2011 season, and McLaren is not a candidate; Rizzo wants someone with more experience as a manager, with knowledge of the Nationals' organization, someone who has success and credibility.

Which brings us to Johnson, who is under contract as an advisor to Rizzo, knows the organization well and is expected to have the opportunity to turn down the job.

There have been concerns in recent years about whether Johnson would have the energy and the health to take on a season-long managerial position, to work through the grind. Even in 1996, he had to step away from the Orioles briefly because he was worn out.

But that kind of commitment won't be required now. Right now, he can pick up the baton that Riggleman dropped and walk into an improving situation for 3½ months. I don't know if the players will agree with everything that Johnson does, but I'd guess this: The players will have fun. Washington is a few strides behind the Atlanta Braves and while its lack of rotation depth might eventually take it down, it is an interesting sleeper now that Zimmerman has returned to third base.

By giving the reins to Johnson, Rizzo would know that he's leaving the team in capable hands while he looks around for a permanent replacement -- someone like Bobby Valentine, our ESPN colleague, or maybe someone like Jim Leyland, who, like Riggleman, has been working in a lame-duck situation as the manager of Detroit.
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HoyaSaxa03

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2011, 03:37:24 pm »
(o|o)

HoyaSaxa03

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2011, 01:32:34 am »
well, that was nutty
(o|o)

sweetcell

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2011, 11:09:12 am »
<sig>

hutch

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Re: The Baseball Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2011, 12:40:36 am »
whoaaaaaaaaa nelly! holy cow!

best nice (correction: night) of baseball I can remember.. are you kidding me?

« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 07:29:48 am by hutch »