This might make for an interesting topic

[azaghal1981]

Yeah it's a crock of shit that the studios/labels have been using in ad campaigns for years.

There are more bands than ever and more of them are being heard than ever for better or worse thanks to the these very tools that bigger labels want to eliminate.

[i am gay and i like cats]

i just enjoy the fact that the founder of this site, that is for "legal" stuff too . . . was hoarding money, artwork, homes, cars, and lots of guns.  that should say alot.  hey i hear some band wants to release an album and make some money off their hard work . . . somebody go upload/download/page torrent that shit pronto.  that will show 'em.  thievery is revolution.

[hutch]

the crock of shit is the idea that its ok to download music without paying for it.. or stream it without artists getting paid for it..


thats the CROCK OF SHIT and any music lover should appreciate that fact..


you could go on google and type any album and megaupload or whatever next to it and pull up the links to download illegally.. and many did which is why often if you typed an album name in google google would give you the suggestion for megaupload


unfortunately azaghal lives in the imaginary world where downloading music for free without the artist getting paid somehow magically helps the artists.. another variation of this inane argument is the classic "why should I pay for music.. artists should make their money touring! that's why ticket prices are high!"


there is nothing wrong with the department of justice or fbi standing up for the copyrights of musicians or hollywood studios..its a good thing..  not sure why one would get so ticked off about it. the fact some use megaupload in conformity with the law does not mean that many did not.. and if the place was not working to make sure its service respected copyrights then good riddance.

[hutch]

by the way greg kot wrote an interesting book called ripped about mp3s and all that jive.. the point is pretty much the same baloney those who favor illegal downloading make: That it helps the musicians while hurting the bad evil record labels..

Its a load of crusty poop.. are there bands that have benefited from illegal downloading and all that? yes.. but for the vast vast majority of musicians its no help at all.. of course kot focuses on the few bands that have benefited.

[azaghal1981]

Again, you post a bunch of presumptuous shit about me in response to imaginary posts by me saying it is/was OK to pirate music.
One last time: Do I see an issue with TPB or any other site whose specific goal is to pirate being taken down/their founders being arrested? No. Hosting pirated movies and music is illegal.

Difference between these sites and MU/Yousendit/Mediafire/rapidshare? These sites are essentially cyber lockers and there is nothing wrong with their existence. People everywhere use them for perfectly valid and legal reasons. As with other technology (VCR, audio cassette, DVD burners, fucking Xerox machines) people also use them for illegal reasons. Is that unfortunate? Sure. But the answer to the problem isn't destruction of such sites. Show me an example of either MU or their founders promoting themselves/their site as a vehicle for illegal activity and I'll take back anything I have said about shutting them down setting a bad precedent.

I'm done.

the crock of shit is the idea that its ok to download music without paying for it.. or stream it without artists getting paid for it..


thats the CROCK OF SHIT and any music lover should appreciate that fact..


you could go on google and type any album and megaupload or whatever next to it and pull up the links to download illegally.. and many did which is why often if you typed an album name in google google would give you the suggestion for megaupload


unfortunately azaghal lives in the imaginary world where downloading music for free without the artist getting paid somehow magically helps the artists.. another variation of this inane argument is the classic "why should I pay for music.. artists should make their money touring! that's why ticket prices are high!"


there is nothing wrong with the department of justice or fbi standing up for the copyrights of musicians or hollywood studios..its a good thing..  not sure why one would get so ticked off about it. the fact some use megaupload in conformity with the law does not mean that many did not.. and if the place was not working to make sure its service respected copyrights then good riddance.

[azaghal1981]

Another article.

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

I think we can all agree that copyright issues belong in the civil, not criminal realm.   But that train left the station many years ago. 

[azaghal1981]

If you refuse to listen to me, maybe you'll listen to Glenn Greenwald. He does put my argument better than I could.

Two Lessons from the Megaupload Seizure

Or maybe now you'll call him anti-musician.


And there is this.

Congressional Research Service study shows that Hollywood are doing OK.


OK, seriously done.

[azaghal1981]

Absolutely.

I think we can all agree that copyright issues belong in the civil, not criminal realm.   But that train left the station many years ago. 

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

maybe you'll listen to Glenn Greenwald

There is one sentence from that article that basically sums it all up:

"The U.S. really is a society that simply no longer believes in due process: once the defining feature of American freedom that is now scorned as some sort of fringe, radical, academic doctrine."

This is where all the bleating about "power to the people" and "the 99% vs the 1%"  is completely off mark.   Due process has been stripped away because the overwhelming majority of people are OK with that, depending on which kind of bogeyman (terrorist, drug dealer, child abuser, flag burner, etc.)  upsets them.     

[hutch]

i think Azaghal you're looking for any reason to come down against what the Government has done vis a vis Megaupload...


Now its that you don't like the way they went about terminating their operations.. thats very different from saying megaupload did nothing wrong.


I'm not a legal expert or even novice.. I can't comment on that aspect.. but that Megaupload was an instrument being used to massively violate copyrights and that Megaupload was profiting from that illicit activity, well of that there is no doubt in my mind..

I have to admit I have contempt for the younger "kids" who think music should be free whether its streaming or downloading...these new generations seem to feel that artists should work for free.. As a music lover I can't stomach it and I think rather than directing your outrage against the US government think a little more about the musicians themselves.. maybe you think the natural order is they should all pass the hat around and play house parties for you so its copacetic to have their livelihood stolen from them?... or maybe your hatred for record companies colors your judgment?..or maybe you just like to see someone stick it to the man but its frankly bizzare to take sides with these pirates and cheer them on...


maybe, I will grant you it is possible that the Obama administration is going about this in the wrong way, in an effort to help out their campaign contributors (hollywood, entertainment industries), but at least they are doing something.

[azaghal1981]

Megaupload did as much wrong as Youtube does. As I stated earlier, there is rampant copyright infringement up there including the videos you link here. Did you ask AC/DC personally for permission to shoot that Verizon Center footage? (I think that was you. If not, sorry. Disregard.) If not, you are arguably just as guilty as the pirates you are railing against. As far as your accusatory rant of myself and my supposed opposition to artists being paid for their work (I spend my fair share on live and recorded music as any regular reader of this board knows), if safeguarding this old model you and the record industry seem to be clinging to hinders innovations in technology, are you really still OK with it still being in place? You're asking way too much, if so. Artists as a whole are realizing that the old process is on its way out and are creatively finding other ways to earn their keep. You can post all the "get off my lawn!" rants you want but the days of artist>label/marketers>radio>consumer are over. You can either choose to get with the times or post old man rants that will accomplish nothing but clutter up this board.

Now its that you don't like the way they went about terminating their operations.. thats very different from saying megaupload did nothing wrong.


I'm not a legal expert or even novice.. I can't comment on that aspect.. but that Megaupload was an instrument being used to massively and primarily violate copyrights extensively and that Megaupload was profiting from illicit activity, well of that there is simply no doubt in my mind..

I have to admit I have utter disdain and contempt for the younger "kids" who think music should be free whether its streaming or downloading...these new generations seem to feel that artists should work for free.. I can't stand for that and I think rather than directing your outrage against the US government you ought to think a little more about the musicians themselves.. maybe you think the natural order is they should all pass the hat around and play house parties for you so its copacetic to have their livelihood stolen from them... or maybe your hatred for record companies colors your judgment..or maybe you just like to see someone stick it to the man but its frankly very bizzare to take sides with these pirates and cheer them on...


maybe the Obama administration is going about this in the wrong way in an effort to help out their campaign contributors (hollywood, entertainment industries) but at least they are doing something.

[hutch]

Megaupload did as much wrong as Youtube does. As I stated earlier, there is rampant copyright infringement up there including the videos you link here. Did you ask AC/DC personally for permission to shoot that Verizon Center footage? (I think that was you. If not, sorry. Disregard.) If not, you are arguably just as guilty as the pirates you are railing against. As far as your accusatory rant of myself and my supposed opposition to artists being paid for their work (I spend my fair share on live and recorded music as any regular reader of this board knows), if safeguarding this old model you and the record industry seem to be clinging to hinders innovations in technology, are you really still OK with it still being in place? You're asking way too much, if so. Artists as a whole are realizing that the old process is on its way out and are creatively finding other ways to earn their keep. You can post all the "get off my lawn!" rants you want but the days of artist>label>marketers>radio>consumer are over. You can either choose to get with the times or post old man rants that will accomplish nothing but clutter up this board.

all this "if you're not with this you're an old man.." is just baloney.. obviously I use the internet for many many things including once in a while legally downloading music.. all I'm saying is artists should be paid for their work. you ought to just agree with that instead of being disagreeable for the heck of it!


there is nothing "old model" about saying artists should be paid for their work and their livelihood not stolen from them....and if the "new model" is about ripping people off - I don't think it is-I want nothing to do with it as should you... whether its youtube or anything else artists should be paid while they have copyrights.. i think they do eventually expire....
I'm in favor of streaming and downloading but when the artist is paid for their work. I have no issue with Itunes.. its great although I don't use.. why do i think its great? Cause my friend's band- Outer Body Llama- can get their music out there to the public and make money.. they love it I love it.. simple.

Obviously artists were not being paid when their work was illegally downloaded..since this went on for years and years I have to conclude Megaupload didn't care.. they certainly seem to have had the funds to invest a little more in protecting artist copyrights.. if they didn't then the "model" is not viable.. as a society we don't adopt new technologies because they make massive theft possible, or are you saying we should?

the way i see it is we had a period of about a decade where it was the wild west and now its going to come back to something that while using new technologies also ensures more respect for copyrights...i think thats great.

[Herr Professor Doktor Doom]

The difference between Megaupload and YouTube is that YouTube makes an effort to curtail posting of copyrighted material, and Megaupload apparently made no such effort.   YouTube in its early days was a different story, but it's much harder to find copyrighted stuff on there than it once was. 

The owners of Megaupload made tens of millions of dollars, lived in a mansion, and drove Rolls Royces.  They were definitely part of the 1 percent, so it's strange that they're garnering so much sympathy.   If they'd invested a small portion of their millions in some good legal advice, they would likely not be in this situation, but they seemed to prefer to devote their efforts to cultivating a swashbuckling image. 

[Jaguar]

Hope you all realize that there are two distinct topics going on here. It started out being about the anti-SOPA/PIPA bills but then Hutch went off on a rant about Megaupload.

Personally, I don't know what that particular company's ethics and safeguards (or lack of) were but I am fully for the protections of the various file storage companies. Now, if it turns out that Megaupload can be proven to have encouraged pirating, well, maybe I'll think differently about that particular company but only that company.

The fact that the owners made tons of money does not, in itself, prove there was anything nefarious going on. It's an international company that sold a crap load of ads while also selling lots of premium memberships. To begrudge them for being successful is wrong. Again, if it can be proved that they did so encourage pirating, than I'll change my tune regarding that one company.

Now, if it does turn out that Megaupload was sailing the biggest pirate vessel of all, it still does nothing whatsoever to lessen the dangers of the SOPA and PIPA bills. If you think these are solely about the abuses of file storage lockers, than you don't have a flipping clue what is in these bills. Yeah, I'm talking to you Hutch. Bet you never bothered to watch that video I posted earlier. It would do you well to do so. Believe me, a high number of people who are against these bills are against illegal downloading. They are just on the ball enough to understand the dangers wrapped up in these nasty pieces of legislation.

Onto the next puzzle piece of a very big and extremely dangerous picture looming in our immediate future...

maybe you'll listen to Glenn Greenwald

There is one sentence from that article that basically sums it all up:

"The U.S. really is a society that simply no longer believes in due process: once the defining feature of American freedom that is now scorned as some sort of fringe, radical, academic doctrine."

This is where all the bleating about "power to the people" and "the 99% vs the 1%"  is completely off mark.   Due process has been stripped away because the overwhelming majority of people are OK with that, depending on which kind of bogeyman (terrorist, drug dealer, child abuser, flag burner, etc.)  upsets them.

I couldn't agree more with what Doomie posted here. Making this all the worse is yet another draconian puzzle piece being forced upon us: the NDAA bill.

Combine that with SOPA and PIPA, this whole board, including Seth (since he owns the board) and Hutch could be black bagged and locked up with the key thrown away for something as simple as posting some news article and no one would know about it, nor would we be able to call a lawyer or have any of those other rights we have been afforded because of our protections under the rights of due process. If you think the way the Megaupload thing was handled was wrong, legislation is being crafted to allow for things to get much, much worse and there may not be a damned thing that we can do about it.