Author Topic: New Rock is Passe  (Read 4331 times)

ggw

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New Rock is Passe
« on: April 28, 2005, 09:55:00 am »
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/28/arts/music/28rock.html?
 
 Fade-Out: New Rock Is Passé on Radio
 
 By JEFF LEEDS
 
 Major radio companies are abandoning rock music so quickly lately that sometimes their own employees don't know it.
 
 Troy Hanson, the program director of WZTA in Miami, said that he first learned that his station's owner, Clear Channel Communications, had ditched the rock format - and his staff - when he tuned to the station one morning in February and heard talk-radio. His rock domain, known as Zeta, had vanished. "We didn't even get to play 'It's the End of the World as We Know It,' " the R.E.M. anthem, as a sign off, he said.
 
 In the last four months, radio executives have switched the formats of four modern-rock, or alternative, stations in big media markets, including WHFS in Washington-Baltimore area, WPLY in Philadelphia and the year-old KRQI in Seattle. Earlier this month WXRK in New York discarded most newer songs in favor of a playlist laden with rock stars from the 80's and 90's.
 
 Music executives say the lack of true stars today is partly the reason. Since rap-rock acts like Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit retreated from the scene, none of the heralded bands from recent rock movements, be it garage-rock (the Strokes, the Vines) or emo (Dashboard Confessional, Thursday), connected with radio listeners or CD buyers the way their predecessors did.
 
 This sudden exit of so many marquee stations has not only renewed the perennial debate about the relative health of rock as a musical genre, but it also indicates that the alternative format, once the darling of radio a decade ago, is now taking perhaps the heaviest fire in the radio industry's battle to retain listeners in the face of Internet and satellite radio competition. Many rock stations may be in for another blow when the shock jock Howard Stern departs for Sirius Satellite Radio next year.
 
 There are still signs that a fervent alternative scene survives. This weekend, for instance, 50,000 people a day are expected to visit Indio, Calif., for the sixth-annual Coachella Valley Music Festival, the biggest rock event of its kind in the United States, to cheer bands like the Arcade Fire and the Secret Machines. Moreover, while alternative programmers are searching for a solution, for the moment they have the benefit of new music by a clutch of reliable stars from the genre's heyday: Nine Inch Nails, Weezer and Beck are releasing their first albums in two years or more, and songs by each rocketed to the top of Billboard magazine's modern-rock airplay chart.
 
 But many musicians in the newer bands on the alternative playlists "could be your waiter tomorrow night and you wouldn't know the difference," griped a radio promotion executive at one major label, who requested anonymity for fear of offending bands on his label.
 
 Ratings for rock radio stations have been languishing for years. The share of the 18-to-34 age group that is tuning in to alternative stations has shrunk by more than 20 percent in the last five years, according to Arbitron, while stations playing rap and R&B or Spanish-language formats have enjoyed an expanding audience.
 
 As a result, many rock programmers aren't sure what to play.
 
 "The format in the last couple of years has gone through an identity crisis," said Kevin Weatherly, program director of KROQ, a closely watched alternative powerhouse in Los Angeles. "You have stations that are too cool, that move too quickly and are only playing the coolest music, which doesn't at the end of the day attract enough of the audience. Or you have the other extreme, dumb rock, red-state rock that the cool kids just flat out aren't into."
 
 Such scrambling to strike a balance has cost many alternative programmers large chunks of audience. Some radio executives said that they made a fateful choice in the last few years to jettison the pop-rock side of their genre to concentrate on heavier-sounding bands, and now are afraid to turn back. As part of that shift, many stations also decided to eliminate women from their audience research. These stations decided to aim at men almost exclusively because of the heavier sound. "You got yourself into a corner that you can't get out of," said Tom Calderone, senior vice president for music and talent at MTV, and a former radio programmer and consultant. "When you listen to alternative stations do their 90's flashback weekends, you can hear something as meaningful as Stone Temple Pilots and Soundgarden to something as silly and quirky as Harvey Danger and Presidents of the United States of America. When you become 65-75 percent guys, you're leaving a huge audience on the table."
 
 At WZTA in Miami, the decision in 2003 to remove women from the equation "was definitely when we started to see Zeta's attrition," Mr. Hanson said. Days after Clear Channel took Zeta off the air, a rival company, Cox Radio, flipped the format of one of its Miami-area stations to rock.
 
 Mr. Hanson also suggested that land-based radio had been too slow to respond to satellite radio, which offers access to dozens of commercial-free music channels for a monthly subscription fee and to digital music players, like Apple Computer's iPod. He said that he balked when a supervisor suggested running an on-air contest to give away an iPod loaded with 949 songs. (Zeta's frequency was 94.9-FM.) "I was like, 'Then they don't need to listen to Zeta anymore.' " Mr. Hanson wound up forgoing the contest.
 
 "The people that are leading-edge technology consumers are not being embraced by terrestrial radio," said Jim McGuinn, who was program director of WPLY in Philadelphia, known as Y100, before its corporate parent, Radio One, flipped the station to rap and R&B in February. "The outsider image disappeared," Mr. McGuinn said.
 
 Mr. McGuinn and a handful of other former WPLY employees have started an Internet radio station, y100rocks.com, to play music they say the terrestrial version had been missing, including songs by Interpol, Moby and Queens of the Stone Age.
 
 But for now, Philadelphia has no terrestrial alternative-rock station.
 
 Some analysts fear that, when radio stations switch from alternative rock to programming aimed at older listeners, they may be making a sacrifice. "Radio has ceded the younger demographic to other media," said Fred Jacobs, president of Jacobs Media, a radio consulting company in Southfield, Mich., specializing in rock. "I just don't know how we're going to get back people who didn't get into the radio habit in their teens," he said, adding, "It really becomes problematic down the road."

Justin Tonation

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2005, 10:49:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/28/arts/music/28rock.html?
 
 Fade-Out: New Rock Is Passé on Radio
 
 By JEFF LEEDS
 
  ...you can hear something as meaningful as Stone Temple Pilots...
???
😐 🎶

HoyaSaxa03

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2005, 10:50:00 am »
great article, thanks for posting it ... i think this is the real crux of the issue:
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  "The format in the last couple of years has gone through an identity crisis," said Kevin Weatherly, program director of KROQ, a closely watched alternative powerhouse in Los Angeles. "You have stations that are too cool, that move too quickly and are only playing the coolest music, which doesn't at the end of the day attract enough of the audience. Or you have the other extreme, dumb rock, red-state rock that the cool kids just flat out aren't into."
 
rhett is completely wrong with his whole "indie is the new mainstream" mantra ... listening to and following non-corporate music is a commitment and a time hog ... i'm not saying this is a bad thing at all, but most people don't have the time or inclination to discover and listen to non-corporate music
 
 music is a nice background noise for most people, it's something to have on while they drive or party or whatever ... most people aren't like myself and other people on this board who buy a new album, run home and put on headphones and digest it ... they have other interests: books, pop culture, tv shows, hobbies, whatever ... so they take the path of easiest convenience (i.e., whatever they're exposed to on the radio or other commercial outlets) when it comes to "choosing" what music they're exposed to
 
 back in the 90s, corporate "alternative" rock was diverse and interesting, it had something for every casual listener ... now it's devolved into two clone-like hydra heads: derivative punk-pop/emo and nickelback butt-rock ... if you don't like either of these rock movements, and from this and other articles it's clear that many casual listeners don't, then you're SOL and you might as well listen to pop stations or hip-hop stations
(o|o)

Arthwys

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2005, 11:04:00 am »
When I was fourteen Stone Temple Pilot's Purple played a huge part in my life.  Go back and listen to that album now, and then compare it to just about anything that's on the modern rock charts these days and you'll see why it's meaningful.  The grand majority of mainstream rock these days is full of bands who can hardly play and write even moderately innovatively.  It's the same three chords, the same vocal delivery, and the same tired subject matter over and over and over.
Emrys

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2005, 11:21:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
 music is a nice background noise for most people, it's something to have on while they drive or party or whatever ... most people aren't like myself and other people on this board who buy a new album, run home and put on headphones and digest it ...
It's so true.  By far the majority of my friends have 20-30 CDs at most (just enough for the Sharper Image CD holder in the living room) which are largely from 5-15 years ago when they were single, out and about more, and radio played things kind of middle of the road.  I'm always aghast.  How can you listen to Hootie, Counting Crows, Peter Gabriel and Madonna over and over again, for years and years?  But, it's much more 'back-groundy' for them.  And they listen to the radio, they don't care so much if they only kind of like what they're listening to.
 
 Of course they think I'm out of my mind.  Which could be true, but I'm happily so...

sonickteam2

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2005, 11:43:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
 
 back in the 90s, corporate "alternative" rock was diverse and interesting,
or you were just 16!  I have found two things as i get older..
 
   1. the music i loved when i was a teen, is really not as great as i thought it once was.
 
   2. the popular music of today may be much better than i think , since i dont spend time knowing all the bands, i just know the REALLY popular ones and so therefore i may say "pop music sucks" but really, i never listen to it, and only know like 5 bands that play it.
 
    its funny how easy it is to forget we arent "the target market" anymore....

green door

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2005, 12:46:00 pm »
Exactly.  Everyone thinks the music they listened to when coming of age was best and everything since has been garbage.

HoyaSaxa03

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2005, 12:56:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by green door:
  Exactly.  Everyone thinks the music they listened to when coming of age was best and everything since has been garbage.
i dunno, i'd take most of the stuff i listen to now over the crap i listened to when i was 12
 
 i think one of the points of the article is that while "alternative rock" flourished in the 90s, casual listeners are now eschewing new "modern rock" groups for pop and hip-hop, and entire stations are going under because of it
(o|o)

bellenseb

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2005, 12:59:00 pm »
I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old, but I feel like most music on modern/alt stations today is far heavier and less melodic than the most dissonant music from 1995.

bearman🐻

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2005, 01:05:00 pm »
I'm one of those rare people who thinks that the music that came before me is some of the best. Sure, I love 90's and 80's stuff. I'd give my left nut to bring Elliott Smith back. But I would wet myself to have been able to see stuff like the Stooges, the Ramones, the Damned, Black Flag, Husker Du and Joy Division back in the day. The spirit and energy in that music has made it timeless. I never get tired of putting on "It's Alive" or "Raw Power". To me, that stuff is so vital that it makes today's music seem so fluffy. Not that I don't give today's music a chance...I try to listen to as much as I can. But I think in order to appreciate music, you have to do your homework and understand the reasons why Franz Ferdinand is really just Gang of Four, Wire and the Smiths all over again. I know a lot of people may boo and hiss over that, but it's true. That doesn't mean they're not worth listening to (I have the record and have seen them live), but I just appreciate them for what they are: derivative.

sonickteam2

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2005, 01:05:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
  i dunno, i'd take most of the stuff i listen to now over the crap i listened to when i was 12
 
 i think one of the points of the article is that while "alternative rock" flourished in the 90s, casual listeners are now eschewing new "modern rock" groups for pop and hip-hop, and entire stations are going under because of it
missed the point again.

HoyaSaxa03

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2005, 01:10:00 pm »
Billboard's 2004 Year End Chart for Modern Rock Tracks
 
 1     MEGALOMANIAC     Incubus     Immortal/Epic
 2    NUMB    Linkin Park    Warner Bros.
 3    JUST LIKE YOU    Three Days Grace    Jive/Zomba
 4    (I HATE) EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU    Three Days Grace    Jive/Zomba
 5    THE REASON    Hoobastank    Island/IDJMG
 6    LAST TRAIN HOME    Lostprophets    Columbia
 7    COLD HARD BITCH    Jet    Elektra/Atlantic
 8    BREAKING THE HABIT    Linkin Park    Warner Bros.
 9    LYING FROM YOU    Linkin Park    Warner Bros.
 10    SLITHER    Velvet Revolver    RCA/RMG
 11    I MISS YOU    Blink-182    Geffen
 12    FLOAT ON    Modest Mouse    Epic
 13    LOVE SONG    311    Maverick/Volcano/Zomba
 14    HIT THAT    The Offspring    Columbia
 15    TAKE ME OUT    Franz Ferdinand    Domino/Epic
 16    SOMEBODY TOLD ME    The Killers    Island/IDJMG
 17    SO COLD    Breaking Benjamin    Hollywood
 18    FIGURED YOU OUT    Nickelback    Roadrunner/IDJMG
 19    TALK SHOWS ON MUTE    Incubus    Immortal/Epic
 20    ARE YOU GONNA BE MY GIRL    Jet    Elektra/Atlantic
 21    THE OUTSIDER    A Perfect Circle    Virgin
 22    I AM THE HIGHWAY    Audioslave    Interscope/Epic
 23    DUALITY    Slipknot    Roadrunner/IDJMG
 24    AMERICAN IDIOT    Green Day    Reprise
 25    BROKEN    Seether Featuring Amy Lee    Wind-up
 26    ONE THING    Finger Eleven    Wind-up
 27    VINDICATED    Dashboard Confessional    Vagrant/Interscope
 28    SILVER AND COLD    AFI    Nitro/DreamWorks/Interscope
 29    MEANT TO LIVE    Switchfoot    Red Ink/Columbia
 30    FEELING THIS    Blink-182    Geffen
 31    GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER    Papa Roach    El Tonal/Geffen
 32    VITAMIN R (LEADING US ALONG)    Chevelle    Epic
 33    WAKE UP (MAKE A MOVE)    Lostprophets    Columbia
 34    FALL TO PIECES    Velvet Revolver    RCA/RMG
 35    CH-CHECK IT OUT    Beastie Boys    Brooklyn Dust/Capitol
 36    UNTIL THE DAY I DIE    Story Of The Year    Maverick/Reprise
 37    (CAN'T GET MY) HEAD AROUND YOU    The Offspring    Columbia
 38    I BELIEVE IN A THING CALLED LOVE    The Darkness    Atlantic
 39    45    Shinedown    Atlantic
 40    COLD    Crossfade    FG/Columbia
 
 all i could find was the top 5 from 1995, but i'm not much of an internet search wizard:
 
 1 - "December" - Collective Soul
 2 - "Lighting Crashes" - Live
 3 - "Better Man" - Pearl Jam
 4 - "When I Come Around" - Green Day
 5 - "And Fools Shine On" - Brother Cane
(o|o)

sonickteam2

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2005, 01:15:00 pm »
whats your point?  that music was good back in the days of Collective Soul and Live????

sonickteam2

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2005, 01:21:00 pm »
how about this, gee how music has changed!!!!
 
 WHFS Top 99.1 of 2004
 
 1. Green Day - American Idiot
 2. Velvet Revolver - Slither
 3. Modest Mouse - Float On
 4. Linkin Park - Breaking the Habit
 5. 311 - Love Song
 6. Incubus - Megalomaniac
 7. Franz Ferdinand - Take Me Out
 8. Linkin Park - Lying From You
 9. Three Days Grace - Just Like You
 10. The Killers - Somebody Told Me
 11. Hoobastank - The Reason
 12. Slipknot - Duality
 13. Blink-182 - I Miss You
 14. Jet - Cold Hard Bitch
 15. Linkin Park - Numb
 16. Beastie Boys - Ch-Check It Out
 17. Incubus - Talk Show on Mute
 18. Green Day - Boulevard of Broken Dreams
 19. U2 - Vertigo
 20. Three Days Grace - I Hate Everything About You
 
 
 or
 
 
  WHFS Top 99.1 of 1994
 
 1. Green Day - Basket Case
 2. R.E.M. - What's The Frequency, Kenneth?
 3. Live - Selling The Drama
 4. Toad The Wet Sprocket - Fall Down
 5. The Offspring - Come Out And Play
 6. Pearl Jam - Yellow Ledbetter
 7. Meat Puppets - Backwater
 8. Soundgarden - Black Hole Sun
 9. The Cranberries - Zombie
 10. Stone Temple Pilots - Big Empty
 11. Soundgarden - Fell On Black Days
 12. Counting Crows - Rain King
 13. Nirvana - About A Girl (Unplugged)
 14. Nine Inch Nails - Closer
 15. Pearl Jam - Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town
 16. Live - I Alone
 17. Green Day - Longview
 18. Dinosaur Jr. - Feel The Pain
 19. Sheryl Crow - All I Wanna Do
 20. Stone Temple Pilots - Vasoline

ggw

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Re: New Rock is Passe
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2005, 01:23:00 pm »
All that shows is that WHFS didn't change.
 
 Now they're defunct.
 
 Coincidence??
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam3:
  how about this, gee how music has changed!!!!
 
 WHFS Top 99.1 of 2004
 
 1. Green Day - American Idiot
 2. Velvet Revolver - Slither
 3. Modest Mouse - Float On
 4. Linkin Park - Breaking the Habit
 5. 311 - Love Song
 6. Incubus - Megalomaniac
 7. Franz Ferdinand - Take Me Out
 8. Linkin Park - Lying From You
 9. Three Days Grace - Just Like You
 10. The Killers - Somebody Told Me
 11. Hoobastank - The Reason
 12. Slipknot - Duality
 13. Blink-182 - I Miss You
 14. Jet - Cold Hard Bitch
 15. Linkin Park - Numb
 16. Beastie Boys - Ch-Check It Out
 17. Incubus - Talk Show on Mute
 18. Green Day - Boulevard of Broken Dreams
 19. U2 - Vertigo
 20. Three Days Grace - I Hate Everything About You
 
 
 or
 
 
  WHFS Top 99.1 of 1994
 
 1. Green Day - Basket Case
 2. R.E.M. - What's The Frequency, Kenneth?
 3. Live - Selling The Drama
 4. Toad The Wet Sprocket - Fall Down
 5. The Offspring - Come Out And Play
 6. Pearl Jam - Yellow Ledbetter
 7. Meat Puppets - Backwater
 8. Soundgarden - Black Hole Sun
 9. The Cranberries - Zombie
 10. Stone Temple Pilots - Big Empty
 11. Soundgarden - Fell On Black Days
 12. Counting Crows - Rain King
 13. Nirvana - About A Girl (Unplugged)
 14. Nine Inch Nails - Closer
 15. Pearl Jam - Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town
 16. Live - I Alone
 17. Green Day - Longview
 18. Dinosaur Jr. - Feel The Pain
 19. Sheryl Crow - All I Wanna Do
 20. Stone Temple Pilots - Vasoline