Author Topic: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.  (Read 2502 times)


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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2004, 04:02:00 pm »
Not to play devil's advocate, but Pedillo is at the very least gulity of treason.  He's a total scumbucket.  
 
   <img src="http://www.electriciti.com/nm8shun/hm127.gif" alt=" - " />
  Hangin's too good for 'im. Burnin's too good for 'im. He should be torn into little bisty pieces and buried alive!

markie

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2004, 04:10:00 pm »
Well why dont they just charge him?
 
 You know, innocent till proven guilty, oh wait, they can lock you up just because they want to now. There is progress for ya.

markie

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2004, 04:13:00 pm »
They guy didnt know what he was doing, you cannot make a dirty bomb with uranium....

vansmack

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2004, 04:13:00 pm »
Who wrote that?  
 
 That's a terribly short sighted mis-reading of what the court did today.
 
 Try this one.
 
 In 3 Rulings, Supreme Court Affirms Detainees' Right to Use Courts
 By DAVID STOUT
 Published: June 28, 2004
 
 WASHINGTON, June 28 â?? The Supreme Court ruled today that people being held by the United States as enemy combatants can challenge their detention in American courts â?? the court's most important statement in decades on the balance between personal liberties and national security.
 
 The justices declared their findings in three rulings, two of them involving American citizens and the other addressing the status of foreigners being held at the Guantánamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba. Taken together, they were a significant setback for the Bush administration's approach to the campaign against terrorism that began on Sept. 11, 2001.
 
 "Due process demands that a citizen held in the United States as an enemy combatant be given a meaningful opportunity to contest the factual basis for that detention before a neutral decisionmaker," an 8-to-1 majority held in the case of Yaser Esam Hamdi, a Saudi-born United States citizen seized in Afghanistan in 2001. Only Justice Clarence Thomas dissented from the basic outlines of the decision.
 
 Justice Sandra Day O'Connor wrote that the campaign against terrorism notwithstanding, "a state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the nation's citizens."
 
 In the Guantánamo case, the court ruled, 6 to 3, that federal courts have the jurisdiction to consider challenges to the custody of foreigners. The finding repudiated a central argument of the administration.
 
 "Aliens at the base, like American citizens, are entitled to invoke the federal courts' authority," Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for the majority. "United States courts have traditionally been open to nonresident aliens."
 
 The dissenters were Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Thomas and Antonin Scalia.
 
 And in the other case involving an American citizen, José Padilla, the court ruled on what at first glance was a technical issue: that Mr. Padilla filed his habeas corpus petition in the wrong court. A 5-to-4 majority said he should have filed in federal court in South Carolina, since he has been held in a brig in Charleston, rather than in the Southern District of New York.
 
 The majority said, too, that the proper target for his case is not Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld but, rather, Cmdr. Melanie Marr, who is in charge of the brig. "This rule serves the important purpose of prevent forum shopping by habeas petitioners," the majority held.
 
 Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote the opinion, joined by Justices O'Connor, Scalia, Thomas and Anthony M. Kennedy. Justices John Paul Stevens wrote an emotional dissent that was joined by Justices David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer.
 
 Justice Stevens wrote that there was ample precedent for finding that the Southern District of New York, where a material-witness warrant was first issued for Mr. Padilla, was the proper court to take up the case, and he lamented that the majority seemed to sidestep the main issues.
 
 "At stake in this case is nothing less than the essence of a free society," Justice Stevens wrote. "For if this nation is to remain true to the ideals symbolized by its flag, it must not wield the tools of tyrants even to resist an assault by the forces of tyranny."
 
 The American Civil Liberties Union called the rulings historic and said they embodied "a strong repudiation of the administration's arguments that its actions in the war on terrorism are beyond the rule of law and unreviewable by American courts."
 
 Representative Jerrold Nadler of New York, ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee on the Constitution, "reaffirms that even in a time of war, the president does not have the authority to act as a tyrant."
 
 Although the cases of Mr. Hamdi, Mr. Padilla and the Guantánamo detainees all arose from the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and weighed national security against personal liberty, they were considerably different from one another in circumstances.
 
 The Guantánamo case involved foreigners: about 600 men of various nationalities seized in Afghanistan and Pakistan during operations against the Taliban; 16 of the detainees, all maintaining their innocence, filed suit. Their case, Rasul v. Bush, No. 03-334, named for the detainee Shafiq Rasul, was argued before the justices on April 20.
 
 Besides the basic issue in their case, there was a secondary but still vital question involving the status of Guantánamo Bay itself.
 
 Since a 1950 Supreme Court case has been interpreted to mean that enemy combatants held outside the United States have no right to habeas corpus, the detainees had to show through their lawyers that Guantánamo Bay is functionally, if not formally, part of the United States.
 
 On the one hand, a long-ago treaty with Cuba said that it retained sovereignty over the base. On the other hand, the treaty also said that the United States exercised jurisdiction and control.
 
 In any event, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled last year that the federal courts lacked jurisdiction to hear habeas corpus petitions from the detainees â?? a position that the Supreme Court rejected today.
 
 The majority noted that the 1950 case cited by the administration involved German citizens captured by United States forces in China, then tried and convicted of war crimes by an American military commission in Nanking, and finally imprisoned in occupied Germany.
 
 In contrast, the Supreme Court majority noted today, the Guantánamo detainees are not only held in territory arguably under United States control but they also have not had their guilt or innocence determined, unlike the Germans of a half-century ago, and have been held without formal charges.
 
 Justice Scalia's dissent, joined by Chief Justice Rehnquist and Justice Thomas, was as emotional in tone as was Justice Stevens's dissent in the other direction in the Padilla case. The majority's holding in the Guantánamo case was so reckless as to be "breathtaking," Justice Scalia asserted.
 
 Justice Scalia went on to declare that the majority's position needlessly upset settled law, and was particularly harmful in a time of war. "The commander in chief and his subordinates had every reason to expect that the internment of combatants at Guantánamo Bay would not have the consequence of bringing the cumbersome machinery of our domestic courts into military affairs," he wrote.
 
 As for the Hamdi and Padilla cases, although they both involve American citizens, the similarities largely end there. For one, Mr. Hamdi was captured in Afghanistan, where the Bush administration contends he was fighting for the Taliban. (His father asserted that he had gone to Afghanistan to do relief work.) Mr. Padilla was arrested at O'Hare Airport in Chicago.
 
 Their cases, Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, No. 03-6696, and Rumsfeld v. Padilla, No. 03-1027, were argued together on April 28, having reached the Supreme Court by opposite paths.
 
 Mr. Hamdi's lawyers were appealing a ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, in Richmond. That court held last year that Mr. Hamdi was entitled to challenge his detention by petitioning for a writ of habeas corpus. But the Fourth Circuit dismissed his petition after holding that the government had provided ample justification for classifying him an enemy combatant.
 
 In the Padilla case, the government brought the appeal to the Supreme Court in hope of overturning a ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, in New York City. Citing a law passed by Congress in 1971 to prohibit the detention of citizens without explicit authorization by Congress, the Second Circuit found that the president was without authority to detain Mr. Padilla, despite the Congressional resolution authorizing military force after the Sept. 11 attacks.
27>34

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2004, 04:18:00 pm »
Dirty bomb or not, he's an Al Qaeda Afghan training camp graduate.  How much more treasonous can you get than that?

markie

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2004, 04:22:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
  Who wrote that?  
 
 That's a terribly short sighted mis-reading of what the court did today.
 
Umm, thanks Vansmack. I will cancel my flights back to the UK immediately. I understand how the first writer may have got confused. But unless my comprehension is shot, he got the wrong end of the stick, completely.

markie

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2004, 04:24:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
  Dirty bomb or not, he's an Al Qaeda Afghan training camp graduate.  How much more treasonous can you get than that?
There could be plenty if you use your immagination. Still graduating camp isnt a crime, is it? Plotting a terrorist attack is though.

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2004, 04:25:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mark e smith:
  Still graduating {AL QAEDA} camp isnt a crime, is it? .
Isn't it roughly equivilent to graduating SS camp.  How can you have a war without enemies?
 ---------------
 
 
 Justice Scalia?
 
 What a good name for the court.  Sounds very judicial.  Justice...Scales...Scaly

markie

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2004, 04:33:00 pm »
I could imagine him in V
 
 
   <img src="http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/scalia.jpg" alt=" - " />

vansmack

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2004, 04:44:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mark e smith:
  Umm, thanks Vansmack. I will cancel my flights back to the UK immediately. I understand how the first writer may have got confused. But unless my comprehension is shot, he got the wrong end of the stick, completely.
Well you clearly don't get it either.  This was not the case to decide whether or not the President had the right to hold the detainees - that's a completely different issue in a separate case that has not yet been ruled on.
 
 What was at stake here, was three issues:
 
  </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Does a citizen detainee have a right to contest his detainment in court?  The answer was overwhelmingly yes (8-1).</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
 </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Do federal courts have the jurisdiction to consider challenges to the custody of foreigners?  Again, yes.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
 </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Did José Padilla file his habeas corpus petition in the wrong court?  The answer was yes, it should have been filed in the state where he was detained (just a technical issue)</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
 So if you think that Padilla got the wrong end of the stick, then great.  But these court decisions have little to do with that issue - these are victories for human rights and I think it should be looked at in a positive light, not the negative slant put on it by the author of your post.
27>34

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2004, 05:03:00 pm »
<img src="http://www.hybridchill.com/misc/iLegal.png" alt=" - " />

poorlulu

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2004, 06:36:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
  [
 What was at stake here, was three issues:
 
  </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Does a citizen detainee have a right to contest his detainment in court?  The answer was overwhelmingly yes (8-1).</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
 </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Do federal courts have the jurisdiction to consider challenges to the custody of foreigners?  Again, yes.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
 </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Did José Padilla file his habeas corpus petition in the wrong court?  The answer was yes, it should have been filed in the state where he was detained (just a technical issue)</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
 I think it should be looked at in a positive light, not the negative slant put on it by the author of your post. [/b]
Yes, I think Markie got it from the article you posted. The list confirms it in a more direct fashion. The first two on your list are very good pieces of news for citizens and non-citizens alike. The third, well who cares? It just keeps him looked up longer without trial.

Guiny

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2004, 08:33:00 am »
F$%k it, let's let them all free so they can plan a bigger attack, maybe at the Supreme Court who want to let the bastards free.

kosmo vinyl

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Re: Ha Ha, Now we are all as fucked as each other.
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2004, 09:17:00 am »
yeah it sucks when the supreme court does it job upholding the constitution...
T.Rex