Let's get this guy on the board!

[vansmack]

I assure you things would never be boring.
 
 -----------------
 
 Thursday, April 29, 2004
 UMass grad student: Tillman's not a hero
 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ESPN.com news services
 
 AMHERST, Mass. -- A University of Massachusetts student has openly criticized Pat Tillman, calling the former NFL player a Rambo-like idiot in the school paper.
 
 The column in question was submitted by graduate student Rene Gonzalez and published Wednesday in the Daily Collegian. It was titled "Pat Tillman is not a hero: he got what was coming to him."
 
 Gonzalez writes that Tillman was a "Rambo" who probably acted out of "nationalist patriotic fantasies." In his own neighborhood in Puerto Rico, according to Gonzalez, Tillman would not have been considered a hero, but a "pendejo," or idiot.
 
 The column drew harsh criticism from many on campus. University president Jack Wilson says the op-ed piece was "disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature."
 
 Tillman, who gave up his NFL career to join the Army Rangers in 2002, was killed in combat one week ago in Afghanistan. The military announced on Wednesday that he has been posthumously promoted to the rank of corporal and awarded the Purple Heart and Meritorious Service Medal.
 
 "You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the 'real' thick of things," Gonzalez writes in his column, which is posted on the collegiate paper's Web site. "I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life 'Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed.'"
 
 Gonzalez also says that Tillman's service was not "necessary."
 
 "It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable," Gonzalez writes. "What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his 'service' was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in."
 
 In a letter to its readers Thursday, the Daily Collegian says Gonzalez' opinion in no way reflects that of the newspaper's editorial board. A column by one of the editors praising Tillman's sacrifice ran in the paper next to the one by Gonzalez.
 
 "We do not hold back from printing news stories, columns or editorials that may upset our readership -- instead, we seek to both inform and stir debate through our publication," the letter, also posted on the Web site, reads. "Our decision to publish Gonzalez's column -- an opinion piece written by a member of our campus community -- is the only way for us to live up to this ideal."
 
 Tillman will be eulogized at a public memorial service in his hometown of San Jose, Calif., early next week, and funeral arrangements are pending.
 
 The body of Tillman arrived at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware on Monday. His brother, Spc. Kevin Tillman, also a Ranger with the 2nd Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment, was expected to accompany the body to the funeral home, Lawrence said.
 
 Tillman was killed in a firefight on a road near Sperah, about 25 miles southwest of a U.S. base at Khost.
 
 After coming under fire, Tillman's patrol got out of their vehicles and gave chase, moving toward the spot of the ambush. Beevers said the fighting was "sustained" and lasted 15-20 minutes.
 
 The Cardinals said they will retire Tillman's No. 40 and name the plaza surrounding the new stadium under construction in suburban Glendale the "Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza."
 
 Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[markie]

I am already here:
 
 "Member
 Member # 469
 
 Rate Member
  posted 23-04-2004 03:47 PM  Â Â Â   Â Â   Â   Â Â   Â     Â Â   Â Â 
 Grotty,
 
 I think along with the 3 things you noticed that stood out, I think there is a fourth.
 
 You cannot fight a war in foreign land in the hopes of making things safe at home.
 
 
 I think the guy was a nut for going but I am hugely impressed that he did."
 
 
 Its just like saying that the world trade center pilots were obviously not cowardly. Its obvious but the collective ears and mindset of the populace is closed.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by mark e smith:
  I am already here:

Writing it in a chat board is one thing.  Putting it in a school paper is another story.
 
 However, I didn't read that post so I apologize.  You do make things ineresting around here nearly everytime you post.  But only nearly.

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

probably depends on which school newspaper you put it in

[mankie]

Originally posted by mark e smith:
  You cannot fight a war in foreign land in the hopes of making things safe at home.
 
 
 

Not sure I agree with that statement.
 
 He probably was a bit of a Rambo, but it was his choice so it's his conseqences. I'm disgusted  in the way they make Tillmans death a bigger loss than all the other 'unfamous' people who died in Bush's little wars.

[markie]

Originally posted by Bollocks:
 

Originally posted by mark e smith:
 [qb] You cannot fight a war in foreign land in the hopes of making things safe at home.
 
 
  [/b]

Actually in some instance you are right (2nd WW), but it's a paraphrase, ripped off of Billy Bragg. I do believe in this:
 
 "You can fight for democracy at home, but not in some foreign land."
 
 Still Iraq was no threat at all to the US. The war on Iraq has nothing whatsoever to do with the war against terror, its just sloganering and taking advantage.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by My Balls Can DJ:
  probably depends on which school newspaper you put it in

You're probably right, but it seemed to peak the interest of many people.  I've tried to read the entire article the guy wrote for the past hour and all I get is:
 
 "This site is experiencing high traffic. Please try back later today."

[es9450a]

Originally posted by My Balls Can DJ:
  probably depends on which school newspaper you put it in

I haven't read the entire piece yet, just excerpts from various news stories.  But if that was submitted to us (I may or may not be Op/Ed Page editor for a school paper in DC :ninja: ), I think journalistic integrity would require us to run it, but with a significant-sized Editor's Note flanking it.  
 
 On a personal level, I think most of the author's arguments are predicated on his/her strong position against the war, and thus are somewhat flimsy.  That's to say, no matter who the soldier in question was, as long as it was a US soldier he/she would have felt the exact same way.  He/she just used Pat Tillman as an in, to gather attention to the rant.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by es9450a:
 I haven't read the entire piece yet, just excerpts from various news stories.  But if that was submitted to us (I may or may not be Op/Ed Page editor for a school paper in DC :ninja: ), I think journalistic integrity would require us to run it, but with a significant-sized Editor's Note flanking it.  

I too, thought it was odd that the Editor's note came a day later.

[markie]

I think it odd that this is old news:
 
 The old lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by mark e smith:
  I think it odd that this is old news:
 
 The old lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

That's Latin Darling.  It Appears Mr. Smith is an educated man.....Now I really hate him!

[mankie]

Originally posted by mark e smith:
   

 
  [/b]

"You can fight for democracy at home, but not in some foreign land."
 
 Still Iraq was no threat at all to the US. The war on Iraq has nothing whatsoever to do with the war against terror,  [/QB]

Now those two statements, I completely agree with.
 
 Shall we say...."oil agree with you"  

[Bags]

Originally posted by Bollocks:
  I'm disgusted  in the way they make Tillmans death a bigger loss than all the other 'unfamous' people who died....

I agree, Mank...I'm not sure you can describe me as disgusted, but I've certainly been dismayed at the huge amount of "special sorrow".  It's not dissimilar to my reaction to the intense, unbalanced reaction to the death of a child, as if it's so much worse than the death of adults (on news reports, often, they'll report "there were 4 casualties, INCLUDING 2 CHILDREN" -- said with particular concern and dismay).  Let me tell you from experience, the adults very well may have been parents, leaving kids behind, which is pretty damn awful as well.  
 
 Not to disparage Tillman.  it's all bad.

[Shadrach]

To make the comparison between Pat Tillman and "Rambo" is just plain stupid.
 
 Pat Tillman - A real life college and pro-football star who when overcome by a sense of patriotism after 9-11 walked away from a multi-million dollar contract to serve his country in the armed forces.
 
 Rambo - A fictional character who returns home after serving his country only to find that he's looked down on by society and ultimately brutalized by some backwoods sheriffs deputyâ??s.
 
 What's the connection?

[markie]

Boneheadedness, stupidity? The thought that one man could make a difference, perhaps even the love of head-bands?
 
 Sorry to be facetious Shadrach, I think it is always possible to perceive soldiers as being a bit single-minded, just wanting to get out there and kill. I think that would be a rambo mentality.
 
 Is it really that difficult to see the viewpoint of the writer for you?