Let's get this guy on the board!

[mankie]

Originally posted by mark e smith:
   I think that would be a rambo mentality.
 
 

That's the point I was making, the chest beating, huge fuck-off machine gun in each hand carrying, draped in ammunition belts with scars all over his chest type of character...basically, the hollywood hero....when the reality is, armed conflict couldn't be further from that depiction.

[mankie]

Originally posted by Macktastic Bag O' Flash:
   

Originally posted by Bollocks:
  I'm disgusted  in the way they make Tillmans death a bigger loss than all the other 'unfamous' people who died....

I agree, Mank...I'm not sure you can describe me as disgusted, but I've certainly been dismayed at the huge amount of "special sorrow".  It's not dissimilar to my reaction to the intense, unbalanced reaction to the death of a child, as if it's so much worse than the death of adults (on news reports, often, they'll report "there were 4 casualties, INCLUDING 2 CHILDREN" -- said with particular concern and dismay).  Let me tell you from experience, the adults very well may have been parents, leaving kids behind, which is pretty damn awful as well.  
 
 Not to disparage Tillman.  it's all bad. [/b]

On the same subject...what annoys me as a 'foriegner' is when the media reports a plane crash or something, they always say something like, "no Americans were onboard" WELL THANK GOD FOR THAT! IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER THEN DOES IT? NO BIGGIE!

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

I don't have a problem with that. We do live in America. Why would they not make the comment about how many Americans were on board?
 
    And I think it emphasizes the pain of something to mention if children were killed. Often to some extent, adults make decisions that might put them in harms way. Children are the most innocent and lacking in choice and responsibility, and unfulfilled in life optential therefore it's an especially tough blow when one is killed.
 
 

Originally posted by Bollocks:
   

Originally posted by Macktastic Bag O' Flash:
   

Originally posted by Bollocks:
  I'm disgusted  in the way they make Tillmans death a bigger loss than all the other 'unfamous' people who died....

I agree, Mank...I'm not sure you can describe me as disgusted, but I've certainly been dismayed at the huge amount of "special sorrow".  It's not dissimilar to my reaction to the intense, unbalanced reaction to the death of a child, as if it's so much worse than the death of adults (on news reports, often, they'll report "there were 4 casualties, INCLUDING 2 CHILDREN" -- said with particular concern and dismay).  Let me tell you from experience, the adults very well may have been parents, leaving kids behind, which is pretty damn awful as well.  
 
 Not to disparage Tillman.  it's all bad. [/b]

On the same subject...what annoys me as a 'foriegner' is when the media reports a plane crash or something, they always say something like, "no Americans were onboard" WELL THANK GOD FOR THAT! IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER THEN DOES IT? NO BIGGIE! [/b]

[mankie]

Originally posted by My Balls Can DJ:
  I don't have a problem with that. We do live in America. Why would they not make the comment about how many Americans were on board?
 
   

I understand what you're saying...but maybe I didn't expand enough....they just brush over the story if no doodles died. Like,
 
  "a plane went down today in the mountains of Peru, no Americans were onboard. Chris Webber was today arrested for the second time for DWI. He was driving a Yellow H2 Hummer SUV with the wheat leather interior and brush guards. He also had the 6 disc CD changer installed and the 200watt subwoofer. The Hummer was fitted with chromed 24" spinner type wheel rims. The arresting officer was wearing a Seiko watch with chronograph alarm. Webber's passenger who iss a dancer at Good Guys bar in Georgetown had just finished her shift and was allegedly getting a ride to her house as she had lost her car keys. She had recently got her hair dyed at haircuttery for $45 in an "american redwood" color. Her shoes and handbag were Prada and were a gift from Mr. Webber as a token of their  friendship."

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by mark e smith:
  Still Iraq was no threat at all to the US. The war on Iraq has nothing whatsoever to do with the war against terror, its just sloganering and taking advantage.

red herring!!!
 
 tillman was killed in afganistan. . .i believe people on this board have supported action there since the former government of that country actively supported, maintained and harboured said terrorists.  
 
 on another note. . why is patriotism such a bad thing?  using tillman again as an example, he wanted to do something for his country after 9/11, and decided that getting out on the front line was the best option. . .instead of standing in front of microphones and saying it, he went and joined the rangers. . .something like 10% of those that apply to join the rangers make it.  i doubt that any of them harbour any rambo fantasy.

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

I can see your point. So whose fault is it, the media or the audience? Is the general public more interested in Chris Webber's details, or does the media just incorrectly THINK that people are?
 
 

Originally posted by Bollocks:
   

Originally posted by My Balls Can DJ:
  I don't have a problem with that. We do live in America. Why would they not make the comment about how many Americans were on board?
 
   

I understand what you're saying...but maybe I didn't expand enough....they just brush over the story if no doodles died. Like,
 
  "a plane went down today in the mountains of Peru, no Americans were onboard. Chris Webber was today arrested for the second time for DWI. He was driving a Yellow H2 Hummer SUV with the wheat leather interior and brush guards. He also had the 6 disc CD changer installed and the 200watt subwoofer. The Hummer was fitted with chromed 24" spinner type wheel rims. The arresting officer was wearing a Seiko watch with chronograph alarm. Webber's passenger who iss a dancer at Good Guys bar in Georgetown had just finished her shift and was allegedly getting a ride to her house as she had lost her car keys. She had recently got her hair dyed at haircuttery for $45 in an "american redwood" color. Her shoes and handbag were Prada and were a gift from Mr. Webber as a token of their  friendship." [/b]

[mankie]

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
 

. why is patriotism such a bad thing?   [/b]

I think it's long been established that markie is afraid of patriotism.
 
 Markie thinks he's billy bragg, I think it has something to do with matching noses and chins.

[Celeste]

who is Chris Webber?

[Bags]

Originally posted by vansmack:
  Thursday, April 29, 2004
 UMass grad student: Tillman's not a hero
 
 ------------------------------------
 "I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures."

The kid who wrote the initiating editorial is obviously a prick.  This line is just so inane....
 
 But, he has a right to say what he does.  Though I disagree with his arguments specifically, I too have been wearied by the media attention to one person among a ream of casualties all over the world.  
 
 This morning the CBS morning news show had an amazing piece, which is to me how we should be getting news of the casualties -- I missed the beginning, so I can't tell you what group of soldiers it was, but they posted pictures of each soldiered who'd been killed, one after the other with their age, rank and hometown.  It was awful and moving -- all those lives are worth the same.
 
 Balls, I understand your point on the children, but it still is pet peeve of mine that there's such inordinate attention given.  The loss of a parent can WAY fuck up the children left behind, and vice versa of course.  But any unexpected death leaves a ripple effect of hurt and damage.

What I want answered is:  When the Taliban come across the border from Pakistan into Afghanistan to strike...why can't we chase them once they flee across the Pakistani border?
 
 It's exactly the same enemy strategy used with great success by the NVA infiltrating from Laos & Cambodia.   And we know who won that one, don't we..?
 
 What about our Pakistani allies, eh?  I guess they are in the same league as our 'Good Friends' from Saudi Arabia.  The Saudis have apparently taken a lesson from the Pennsylvania tourist board recently?  What, with their bombarding the airwaves with the new ad slogan, "You've Got A Friend In Saudi Arabia"?

[mankie]

""Quote""I missed the beginning, so I can't tell you what group of soldiers it was, but they posted pictures of each soldiered who'd been killed, one after the other with their age, rank and hometown. It was awful and moving -- all those lives are worth the same.""Unquote""
 
 
 That's how I feel about the hate crimes law bullshit.....why does some maggot get a tougher punishment for killing a gay, black, asian, white etc. than for killing their ex, g/f, b/f, co-worker etc? Is the life of a gay or black etc, more valued than the rest so the punishment is greater? Can someone please explain that logic to me?

[ratioci nation]

Originally posted by Bollocks:
  That's how I feel about the hate crimes law bullshit.....why does some maggot get a tougher punishment for killing a gay, black, asian, white etc. than for killing their ex, g/f, b/f, co-worker etc? Is the life of a gay or black etc, more valued than the rest so the punishment is greater? Can someone please explain that logic to me?

that is about the motive, not who was killed, punishment for murders is often based on motive

[markie]

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  tillman was killed in afganistan. . .
 
 
 on another note. . why is patriotism such a bad thing?

I keep forgetting that.... I guess my get off is, they should have tidied up in Afganistan, focussed solely on sorting that country and its neighbours (Pakistan, thanks Dupek) out, before starting another war somewhere else under the red herring of The War Against Terrorism.
 
 
 As for patriotism, I did say I was hugely impressed by what Tillman did. I think he was remarkably brave. But patriotism to me is football hooligans and the NF draped in a Union Jack. But I find patriotism very inward looking and an insular point of view.

[Bags]

Mank, I think the hate crimes issues is about the crimes being more incendiary and instigating further violence.  Just a supposition on my part, and I'm not sure where I stand on it.  But, I think that's the reasoning -- a lynching is intended not just to kill a particular person, but to incite further violence and killing against an entire group regardless of any personal particulars.  And for some reason, folks are always more scared by random killing (as I think it shakes up their world view and comfort levels).

[mankie]

Originally posted by mark e smith:
 

But patriotism to me is football hooligans and the NF draped in a Union Jack. But I find patriotism very inward looking and an insular point of view. [/b]

You'll probably know better than I, being college edumacated and all...but aren't those knobheads nationalists, not patriots?