930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: dave24 on January 17, 2009, 08:01:44 pm
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Ok - so, Live Nation has launched their own ticketing site. They wanted to leave Ticketmaster, as they claimed Ticketmaster was charging absurd service charges and per-order fees.
Do you think they'd charge less if this is the case? I'd have thought so. NOPE! It's worse than ever.
Live Nation somehow thinks charging even higher service charges is better for their customers because they're not charging the per order fees. At least that's how they try to spin it. They're just making even more money than Ticketmaster or Tickets.com per order.
I've broken it all down here...
http://soundoffwithdave.com/2009/01/17/live-nation-meet-the-new-boss-same-as-the-old-boss/
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for the upcoming eagles tour, and i believe more (selected) after that, ticketmaster will have no fees. none. just the face charge and the shipping. this is their first move against livenation. it does not matter, though.
gas could be ten dollars a gallon. you'd buy it.
cigarettes could be ten dollars a pack. smokers will buy them.
downloadable songs can finally be taxed, leading to even larger taxes later. you will still listen and pay.
and so on and so forth.
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I don't know. I've refused to buy certain concert tickets because of their price. I've also not bought a ticket because the service charges and fees made a $20 ticket into a $33 ticket. Particularly for a GA show, I'll go to the venue in a lot of cases to save the service charge.
I have friends who absolutely refuse to buy a ticket online anymore. They just won't support companies that charge fees now upwards of 50% of the original cost of the ticket. If they miss a show because of it, so be it.
There are just way too many options. I can spend my money on entertainment in a lot of ways. I certainly don't feel the need to line the pockets of the executives at Live Nation.
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This really shouldn't come as a surprise. I mean LN aren't known for ethical business practices to begin with.
The whole strong-arming bands into playing their venues in cities where they have competition thing is one of the most disgusting things to ever happen to live music.
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Nah - it's not truly a surprise. I just would have thought they would roll this out and pull some extra cash from someplace less visible.
All of these companies have been guilty of some pretty poor business practices for years... Personally, I don't care too much for all of the exclusive rights contracts Ticketmaster has with professional sports organizations. You used to be able to find various teams through Tickets.com, and other outlets. Now Ticketmaster monopolizes the NFL, and others...
It will be interesting to see what happens with major summer tours... if Live Nation has enough venues to be able to force artists to tour through them exclusively.
Ticketmaster has more options for buying a ticket in person - in person charges are less whether it's at Macy's or the venue, where it's absolutely cheapest. Live Nation has no such network in place. So, consumers are kind of stuck...
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"It will be interesting to see what happens with major summer tours... if Live Nation has enough venues to be able to force artists to tour through them exclusively."
I think they already do. Sometimes it feels like Merriweather is the only shed in the country that they don't control.
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Last I saw, they owned 39 amphitheatres... but I've never seen a list of which ones... I'm sure it's a lot of the major ones - but I would think there's be some pretty major markets left out of that mix.
There's got to be some backlash at some point, especially in this economy...
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livenation:
Andrew Bird
Thursday 02/19/09
Show: 8:00 p.m.
The Fillmore - S.F.
SAN FRANCISCO
Gen Admission Open Dance Flr
Section GA, Row G04, Seat # 96
Adult $32.50
Ticket Fee $13.50
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yes, well, hooray for the Fillmore SIlver Spring!
that'll help crush this 930/I.M.P. monopoly!
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livenation:
Andrew Bird
Thursday 02/19/09
Show: 8:00 p.m.
The Fillmore - S.F.
SAN FRANCISCO
Gen Admission Open Dance Flr
Section GA, Row G04, Seat # 96
Adult $32.50
Ticket Fee $13.50
Nice... $32.50 + $13.50... at least Live Nation is "Transparent" That's their goal after all...
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Dave...I finally clicked over to your blog. I have one piece of advice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkO87mkgcNo
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does it apply to the sports section also?
Dave...I finally clicked over to your blog. I have one piece of advice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkO87mkgcNo
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yes, well, hooray for the Fillmore SIlver Spring!
that'll help crush this 930/I.M.P. monopoly!
Seriously! I just can't believe how Hurwitz Enterprises has gone unnoticed under the SEC's radar ;)
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does it apply to the sports section also?
There's a sports section? I clicked the link the link below. I read the first sentence. I read the next couple of sentences. I read the first three paragraphs. I stopped reading. I had a thought. I posted it here. That's all.
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http://soundoffwithdave.com/2009/01/13/what-happened-to-the-nfls-rooney-rule/
http://soundoffwithdave.com/2009/01/13/ravens-over-cardinals-in-super-bowl-43/
does it apply to the sports section also?
There's a sports section? I clicked the link the link below. I read the first sentence. I read the next couple of sentences. I read the first three paragraphs. I stopped reading. I had a thought. I posted it here. That's all.
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for the upcoming eagles tour, and i believe more (selected) after that, ticketmaster will have no fees. none. just the face charge and the shipping. this is their first move against livenation. it does not matter, though.
gas could be ten dollars a gallon. you'd buy it.
cigarettes could be ten dollars a pack. smokers will buy them.
downloadable songs can finally be taxed, leading to even larger taxes later. you will still listen and pay.
and so on and so forth.
I wish this could be true. I've missed out on so much because ticket prices were just too high. With the exception of a few bands whom I'd see at any price, the monetary cost is what decides whether or not I go to a show these days. There's got to be a ceiling eventually, not all of us have bottomless coffers to see any show that may or may not be decent.
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i do like the fact that ticketmaster now offers insurance on your tickets, in case you can't make the show, and will get your money back. livenation laughs at such a move. i have a funny feeling the eagles move was because . . . no offense to the fans, but who in the hell is still seeing the eagles? next thing you know, they'll give out free frisbees on all feelies tickets sold. ;D to bearman.
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i do like the fact that ticketmaster now offers insurance on your tickets, in case you can't make the show, and will get your money back.
Has anyone ever used this? There's a ton of legalese in the description of what it does/doesn't cover. "Change of personal plans" doesn't cut it. They reserve the right to request documentation to prove your claims - including the right to ask for an autopsy, if your claim is "death". Is it really that hard to get a refund?
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i do like the fact that ticketmaster now offers insurance on your tickets, in case you can't make the show, and will get your money back.
Has anyone ever used this? There's a ton of legalese in the description of what it does/doesn't cover. "Change of personal plans" doesn't cut it. They reserve the right to request documentation to prove your claims - including the right to ask for an autopsy, if your claim is "death". Is it really that hard to get a refund?
wha, wha, wha, whatttt??? now that is the last straw.
(http://inversehiphop.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/358766067_da00b3656e.jpg)
that's to tm, not you bc.
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somebody explain this one to me.
the dead at verizon goes on sale tom. at 10 . . . both through ticketmaster and livenation? does one company get better seats than another? how is that possible? interesting.
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just got off the phone with a ticketmaster customer person. they are so nice (no matter what anybody says) and after i told him that livenation is attempting to sell tickets to the same show that ticketmaster is, he told me he had to speak with his sup. and put me on hold. he came back flabbergasted and could not believe they were doing this, and had no information about whether their tickets would be any different than theirs. shitty.
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I think most of this sort of overlay is just to drive traffic to Live Nation's site. If you poke around at other events they list that aren't at their venues, they just link you back to Ticketmaster.com eventually.
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oh yeah, i have seen that before. you are probably right.
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on the other hand, they may have separate inventory ("you sell half, i'll sell half" - like the radiohead tour this summer), or they might have some complex agreement that allows them to pull from the same inventory.
to add more fuel to the fire: i looked in to buying tickets for Tricky in NYC. face: $32.50. "Ticket Fee": $12.25. yup, that's a 38% mark-up. $45... not sure its worth it to me.
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livenation:
Andrew Bird
Thursday 02/19/09
Show: 8:00 p.m.
The Fillmore - S.F.
SAN FRANCISCO
Gen Admission Open Dance Flr
Section GA, Row G04, Seat # 96
Adult $32.50
Ticket Fee $13.50
if you go to the fillmore on a sunday between 10 and 4 to buy your tickets you don't pay a service charge. . .otherwise it's $2.
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just talked to a person at livenation, who was even nicer than the person at ticketmaster. they said that it will be a common practice now that both companies will be selling tickets for same shows. each will have their own seperate allotment of tickets. for the dead at verizon, ticketmaster has the higher price, better seat tickets, and live nation is getting the cheaper seats. but that is not how it will be for every act. very interesting indeed.
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oh, great, one more thing to worry about when buying tickets for an in-demand show: which retailer will have the better seats? on high-demand shows, you get one pull... no time to hit up both TM and LN, so now it'll involve calling them up and hoping you can shake down this info.
if/when people do come across this info, feel free to share with the board.
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eh, I'm still hung up on the $4 'will call' fee thru tickets.com.
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eh, I'm still hung up on the $4 'will call' fee thru tickets.com.
i think that the fee is high given the level of service that one gets, but there has to be SOME charge for will-call. the ticket window at the club needs to be hooked in to the tickets.com network, needs a special printer, staff needs to be trained, etc.
but again, why will-call costs as much as it does to have them mailed is beyond me.
and since we're bitching about tickets.com - what a f*ck-up of a website. looks like it was designed in 1997. front page continuously asks me what country i'm in - ever heard of cookies? - and the asks me if i'm interested in buying tickets or finding a ticketing solution. when 98% of your traffic is choosing one option, you don't add an extra step by making them choose - you make it the default, and let the 2% click the "for ticketing solutions info" link.
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i do like the fact that ticketmaster now offers insurance on your tickets, in case you can't make the show, and will get your money back.
Has anyone ever used this? There's a ton of legalese in the description of what it does/doesn't cover. "Change of personal plans" doesn't cut it. They reserve the right to request documentation to prove your claims - including the right to ask for an autopsy, if your claim is "death". Is it really that hard to get a refund?
i've just noticed that tickets.com also offers ticket insurance (https://images.tickets.com/images/privatelabel/TermsConditions_TI.html). the tickets.come plan isn't very restrictive (i.e. acceptable reasons for refunds include illness, car break-down and flight delay)... not that i can be bothered to investigate TM's conditions.
i strongly suspect that ticket insurance is the concert industry equivalent of extended warranties: rarely worth the money and just another way for the retailer to squeeze extra cash out of the consumer.
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My tickets.com is cookied.
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don't you just love to be the first post of a fresh new page within a thread?
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I so do.
It's like being the first person to hit base in a game of hide & seek.
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Ben Kweller at 930 Club
Ticket - $20
Service - $4.75
Mail/Will Call - $4
Total - $28.75
Service fee is 43.75% of face value. I guess there's no point in complaining though.
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Dave, your blog posting fascinated me -- just sent a link to a bunch of my concert-going buddies. Geez oh pete.
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Ben Kweller at 930 Club
Ticket - $20
Service - $4.75
Mail/Will Call - $4
Total - $28.75
Service fee is 43.75% of face value. I guess there's no point in complaining though.
Well, the service charge is less than 25% - Tickets.com is usually better than LN or TM... but yeah, $4.00 for will call is pretty absurd.
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Dave, your blog posting fascinated me -- just sent a link to a bunch of my concert-going buddies. Geez oh pete.
That story did see a bit of a spike in traffic - glad you liked it... ;D
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(http://static4.livenation.com/akamai/V2051/images/7/265.jpg)
info: http://www.livenation.com/clubpassport/
Live Nation's New Passport: http://pollstar.com/blogs/news/archive/2009/09/16/689599.aspx
might make sense if you live in LA or NYC or any of the other markets listed. somehow, i don't mind being left off the list :D
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might make sense if you live in LA or NYC or any of the other markets listed. somehow, i don't mind being left off the list :D
Current Passport Participating shows in SF (Fillmore):
Wed, 09/23/09: 08:00 p.m. Revolting Cocks
Thu, 09/24/09: 08:00 p.m. Manic Street Preachers
Sun, 09/27/09: 08:00 p.m. 7-Eleven Slurpee presents Honor Society, flavored by Coke
Tue, 09/29/09: 8:00 p.m. Kailash Kher
Wed, 09/30/09: 8:00 p.m. Perez Hilton Presents IDA MARIA with LADYHAWKE
Mmmm, no. But a 9:30 Fourm Pass...that might work.
Anaheim on the other hand would get you the Psych furs, Citizen Cope and Motorhead. That would be enough for me. (http://www.livenation.com/promotions/10516.html?venueId=10516&ticketTypeIds=138&promoId=7)
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i wouldn't mind revolting cocks & MSP - those two shows alone would pay for the pass. anything after that would be gravy.
mmmmmmmm, graaaaaaaaavy.
(http://coveritwithgravy.com/images/brown-gravy.jpg)
i would buy a 930 pass in a heartbeat. hey seth... (although the possibility of one is nil. LN has the advantage of being both the venue operator & the promoter/tour organizer... seth isn't)
edit: actually, maybe it isn't impossible: the 930 could sell a pass that only allows day-of reservations, i.e. shows that are unlikely to sell out - might as well get some revenue from that otherwise empty space, no?
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Just got my email about the club passport last night. Butthole Surfers are also on the list of available shows. Depending on the venues included I would buy one of those in a heartbeat.
The list also includes a band called LMFAO. Great name. ::)
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Maybe they're just waiting to get The Fillmore finished. :(
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edit: actually, maybe it isn't impossible: the 930 could sell a pass that only allows day-of reservations, i.e. shows that are unlikely to sell out - might as well get some revenue from that otherwise empty space, no?
That was exactly my thought. Kind of like the airline industry where if you take the chance of waiting until the last minute, you can buy a ridiculously cheap flight that cuts into what would otherwise be a loss for the airlines, that really doesn't cost anything more to the company. And as you pointed out, it might mean more in revenue if they buy food/beer/merch.
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i wouldn't mind revolting cocks & MSP - those two shows alone would pay for the pass. anything after that would be gravy.
There's a sucker born everyday....
This is exactly what they want with this promotion. They want to talk you into buying it under the guise of "well, I wasn't going to see those two shows, but for $50 with the possibility of seeing more shows, what the hell?" And that's how they get you.
I looked at the list of future shows and asked my friends what the chances were that the show I wanted to go see would be on the Passport - unless I was fairly convinced it was going to be on there, I'm passing.
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The other problem I see with this is that it looks like they bump you when a show sells out.
So you buy it thinking "I'll just use it to see these 3 bands...it's worth the $". Then 2 of those shows sell out a week before the show date. You're screwed.
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i wouldn't mind revolting cocks & MSP - those two shows alone would pay for the pass. anything after that would be gravy.
There's a sucker born everyday....
This is exactly what they want with this promotion. They want to talk you into buying it under the guise of "well, I wasn't going to see those two shows, but for $50 with the possibility of seeing more shows, what the hell?" And that's how they get you.
i don't see how that makes anyone a sucker. i wouldn't pay $30 for a ticket to see those acts, but would consider it for $10 or less. with a passport, i'd probably see more than 5 shows between now and the end of the year thus driving down my cost-per-show even more. i would only see certain bands under the condition that they're cheaper. this passport would meet that condition.
i go to a lot of shows. some i will attend no matter what, while for others, the price plays in to my decision. the passport would remove that obstacle.
the alternative - that i keep my $50, and not see 5-10 additional shows - isn't my preference. luckily, this is all academic :D
The other problem I see with this is that it looks like they bump you when a show sells out.
So you buy it thinking "I'll just use it to see these 3 bands...it's worth the $". Then 2 of those shows sell out a week before the show date. You're screwed.
nope, no bumping. once a show is available for passport holders and you reserve a spot, you're guaranteed entry.
the popular shows are going to sell out before any spots are made available for passport holders, but most of shows that i see at the club aren't sold out so a passport like this would work for me.
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i would buy a 930 pass in a heartbeat. hey seth... (although the possibility of one is nil. LN has the advantage of being both the venue operator & the promoter/tour organizer... seth isn't)
edit: actually, maybe it isn't impossible: the 930 could sell a pass that only allows day-of reservations, i.e. shows that are unlikely to sell out - might as well get some revenue from that otherwise empty space, no?
There are different options though. For instance, instead of a pass similar to LN, try this: go to 10 shows get the 11th free. I'm not exactly sure how it would all work...Maybe they have 10 shows to pick from or within a certain period..Or, swipe a card and after so many points you get a free shirt. Have food points, get a tshirt. Hell, I dunno...I'm probably coming up w/ ideas that are beyond the music and making it more like Subway.
Sure, even something as simple as a pass has potential difficulty. But the club always manages things pretty well. I would love some sort of frequent patron benefits.
(Does NorVa still have their VIP club membership?)
(Apologies if I'm moving off topic. Feel free to move 930 card / club / pass discussion to hey seth or new thread)
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(Does NorVa still have their VIP club membership?)
Yes, both The Norva and The National have $5,000/year VIP memberships.