If there were ever two companies that shouldn't be bailed out, these would be them. Let them implode.
i don't understand: what are you talking about bail-out? no one is being bailed out here. it's a merger.
If there were ever two companies that shouldn't be bailed out, these would be them. Let them implode.
i don't understand: what are you talking about bail-out? no one is being bailed out here. it's a merger.
If there were ever two companies that shouldn't be bailed out, these would be them. Let them implode.
i don't understand: what are you talking about bail-out? no one is being bailed out here. it's a merger.
If the feds allowed this merger to happen, it'd be the rough equivalent of a bail-out.
If there were ever two companies that shouldn't be bailed out, these would be them. Let them implode.
i don't understand: what are you talking about bail-out? no one is being bailed out here. it's a merger.
If the feds allowed this merger to happen, it'd be the rough equivalent of a bail-out.
you have a very unique understanding of economics and public policy.
always has the first three rows for sale even before tickets go on sale
always has the first three rows for sale even before tickets go on sale
if you repeat it often enough, will it become real?
the boss man speaks:
(Ticketmaster) promises that they would not present an option to go to TicketsNow from Ticketmaster without the consent of the artist and the venue.
They will also refund the difference between the actual purchase price and the face price of the ticket for those unintentionally purchased their tickets in the resale site. However, they asked that the "good faith gesture" should not be abused.
(source) (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7013970620)
U.S. congressman voices concern about Ticketmaster
Rep. Bill Pascrell, D-N.J., asked the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice Antitrust Division on Tuesday to investigate Ticketmaster?s relationship with its subsidiary company, TicketsNow. The probe follows Ticketmaster?s handling of ticket sales for the Springsteen tour. Tickets went on sale Monday for his show at New Jersey?s IZOD center in suburban New York. The tour kicks off in April in San Jose.
In his letter to the FTC chairman, Pascrell stated he sees abuse potential when one company is able to monopolize the market for a product and also directly manipulate and profit from the secondary market.
He also stated that the speed with which tickets were made available on Ticketmaster?s official resale affiliate site raises questions about whether TicketsNow brokers were given preferential treatment instead of competing on a level playing field with average consumers who want to buy tickets.
In a letter to fans, Springsteen stated that Ticketmaster has stopped redirecting ticket-buyers to the TicketsNow site per his tour team?s request.
Springsteen also stated his team does not participate in Ticketmaster charges.
Obama administration may play role if merger isn't a rumor
According to The National Law Journal, companies that merge and create a certain size-threshold or deal-size will be under more scrutiny from the FTC and the DOJ thanks to the new presidential administration.
The new administration?s new goal will be preventing deals that harm consumers and overall create a more competitive marketplace. It also will create much more paperwork that must be reviewed by the government agencies.
The NLJ cites comments Obama made last year at the American Antitrust Institute in which he said he plans to reinvigorate antitrust enforcement and set up a review of merger activity.
(source) (http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/stories/2009/02/02/daily34.html)
Analysis: Live Nation / Ticketmaster (http://www.pollstar.com/blogs/news/archive/2009/02/06/647411.aspx)
Soon after the Wall Street Journal reported that Live Nation and Ticketmaster Entertainment were in merger talks, everyone from bloggers to the New York Times speculated on what it ultimately meant for the music industry. But could it all be just sound and fury, ultimately signifying nothing?
Neither company has issued a statement confirming or denying the talks, which can be interpreted as a form of confirmation they are talking. A Live Nation spokesman told Pollstar the company does not comment on ?market speculation? and a Ticketmaster spokesman had a similar response. But if a merger deal does come to fruition, it would signify the next step in the continuing transformation of the entire music industry.
But let?s take a different tack and dumb it down. Which of the following raises stock prices and which lowers them: Talks of merger ? or, instead, Live Nation announcing it is abandoning its ticketing system and becoming, once again, a Ticketmaster client?
The timing of the announcement comes so soon after Live Nation?s new ticketing system melted down during its first major on-sale, it begs the question of what?s driving the talks.
The Phish tour went on sale January 30 with a system Live Nation thought could handle high demand levels. Instead, the on-sale created incredible ill will as fans grew increasingly frustrated with their inability to complete transactions without error messages. The tickets reportedly all got sold but, because of the number of times the system crashed, many are wondering if anything got lost or duplicated along the way and if an accurate audit trail exists.
The Live Nation ticketing system failure may not have been as bad as the rumors made it out to be ? but even a minor glitch would have been enough to make agents and managers very nervous about how it might impact their clients.
Live Nation has more high profile ticket launches on the horizon for Jonas Brothers and U2, along with their shed season inventory. Yet, less than a week after the Phish crash, word floated around that Live Nation was asking (or being told to ask) for Ticketmaster?s help on Jimmy Buffett?s ticket sales. By that same evening, a source told the WSJ of the merger talks.
For the two companies it could be a win-win. Live Nation and Ticketmaster could form a massive new company that just might get a better reception from the stock market. Or, if the Department of Justice nixes the merger, Ticketmaster could end up as ?just? Live Nation?s ticketing portal. Live Nation can return to TM while saving face, and TM has an important client back. All this while the rest of the industry was busy chattering about the ?big merger.?
That?s the simplest scenario. Here are the some of the more complicated ones.
The merger is real. And the carrot is simply access to Ticketmaster?s customer database, which was reportedly a prime reason for the split in the first place. (There was also a rumor that the final straw was when Live Nation insisted TM tack on $20 surcharges and take the heat ? a rumor that doesn?t seem so farfetched now that LN has followed a similar model on its own.)
Here?s another: Ticketmaster Entertainment was said to be in talks to purchase 50 percent of AEG Live, but the TM board balked, likely because of the asking price. AEG is not going to be sold for fire sale prices if at all. Then came the Live Nation ticketing snafu and the light of leverage and opportunity illuminated the offices of Mr. Azoff. By threatening to merge with Live Nation, Ticketmaster could make AEG fidgety enough to reconsider the purchase. What if both happened? Could TM wind up with a stake in both companies? If so, anyone want to guess who?d call the shots?
Now here?s the rub: If Live Nation and Ticketmaster merge, how can any other promoter feel secure using TM as a neutral ticket seller? With Live Nation and Ticketmaster as one, Live Nation could have access to competitors? ticket counts. If that doesn?t frighten every other promoter, what would?
There are certainly several other theories. The whole thing could just be smoke and no deal ever emerges. The Department of Justice may grow teeth and nix a deal, although the sinking economy could divert the Obama administration?s attention.
But any way you look at it, things will never be the same as they ever was.
I think the thing people are missing is that this merger isnt really all that bad for everyone.You mean the denizens of 930.com aren't the center of the universe and arbiters of the cultural zeitgeist? Pretty radical thinking, there, sonick.
now i haven't seen this friend since he got married last summer,
seriously walkies, you're dragging obama into this? i think ALL of the articles i've recently linked in this thread had a paragraph about how the new obama rules make this merger less likely.
the merger all talk for the moment, and announcement does not a merger make. let's not jump the gun here, m'kay?
It's official - announced this morning.
http://www.pollstar.com/blogs/news/archive/2009/02/10/647940.aspx
I still don't see how it gets past the FTC and antitrust laws...hopefully it won't
Michael Rapino, CEO of Live Nation, said, "This combination will drive measurable benefits to consumers and accelerate the execution of our strategy to build a better artist-to-fan direct distribution platform."
What are the benefits to consumers. I'm curious. How do soulless companies that rely on monopoly power benefit consumers?
Both stocks are down 17% or so today!
I'm not sure this is what they had in mind....
someone should send in jay z and his crew. that will settle this mess. ticketmaster and livenation would be walking dead ticket companies.
"One possibility, short of derailing the merger: The government could require that the combined company spin off Live Nation's fledgling ticketing division, which it developed in anticipation of its contract with Ticketmaster expiring at the end of 2008. With another big ticketing company out there signing up venues, attracting fans and working with promoters, Washington could be satisfied that the live-music market is competitive enough." (from Live Nation, Ticketmaster Merger Risks Antitrust Scrutiny (http://blog.wired.com/business/2009/02/live-nation-tic.html))
someone should send in jay z and his crew. that will settle this mess. ticketmaster and livenation would be walking dead ticket companies.
why? i don't get it... please explain.
The Live Nation/Ticketmaster merger is just ONE more step in a long-term LN/Clear Channel strategy: You might remember about three years ago, when LN/CC ?acquired? the Charlottesville, VA based companies, Red Light Management and MusicToday. The latter provided merch/music distribution for small bands, Red Light, artist development and talent management. Thru similar acquisions, LN also presently provides tour management (booking, logistics, buses, drivers, roadies, road managers), owns and/or manages venues (already noted elsewhere on this thread); talent development and representation services, and now possibly ticketing for ALL TicketMaster venues ? even those not owned/operated or managed by Live Nation. So, in essence here?s the dealeo: They will own EVERY freekin aspect of the music industry we love. Only bands ?managed? by them will get gigs, tour support, merch distribution, ticketing services; only venues owned/operated or managed by them will get their bands. It?s really sickening. I know some of the lesser ?management? from their C?ville days. They all have personalities similar to the LN chairman: They are king-makers; it?s all about them, their vision/egos and their ?extraordinary? business acumen. This is NOT good for small club owners, music lovers or musicians
Live Nation and Ticketmaster face skeptical lawmakers (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090225/media_nm/us_livenation_ticketmaster)
But Azoff and Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino argued that music piracy had changed the economics of the industry -- artists no longer toured to sell albums -- and the faltering U.S. economy worsened matters.
"I can hope that the economy gets better or I can seek a more proactive approach to protect our employees, reward our shareholders and better service artists and fans," said Rapino.
That proactive approach is a merger of the world's largest concert promoting company with the top U.S. ticket seller, each of which has made tentative but well-funded forays into the others' business.
David Balto, a fellow at the Center for American Progress, disagreed that the merger would create cost-saving efficiencies because of the two companies' market power.
"I think it's extremely unlikely that these convenience and service charges are going to go down," he said. "This is a competitively unhealthy market."
Ticketmaster slammed again over early sale of Leonard Cohen tickets (http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/02/25/ticketmaster-cohen.html)
Ticketmaster's website says tickets don't go on sale until Wednesday for most Canadian dates, but the company's affiliated website, TicketsNow, began selling tickets to the shows for hundreds of dollars more than their face value before that.
Tickets to Cohen's concerts were withdrawn from sale by TicketsNow sometime Tuesday night or Wednesday morning.
Senator presses Ticketmaster to sell TicketsNow (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j7y7o_57IM3Bww1zoLwMait0Dk-QD96IISLO1)
Irving Azoff, Ticketmaster's chief executive, replied that he never would have bought TicketsNow, the No. 2 reselling site behind eBay Inc.'s StubHub, if he had been in charge when the deal closed in February 2008.
"The whole secondary area is a mess," Azoff said. "I would never have bought it."
"I don't believe there should be a secondary market at all."
On Monday, Ticketmaster agreed with New Jersey's attorney general, Anne Milgram, to not link to the TicketsNow site from Ticketmaster for a year and to only do so after that in a way that received her office's approval. The changes apply to all Ticketmaster sales nationwide.
(...)
The companies hope their all-stock merger of equals, valuing the combined entity around $2.2 billion, will close in the second half of 2009. They said the deal would help them save about $40 million annually.
(...)
Seth Hurwitz, a promoter and co-owner of the 9:30 live music club in Washington, said the merger would allow Live Nation to access its confidential sales information because its tickets are sold through Ticketmaster.
"My biggest competitor will have access to all of my sales records, customer information," he said. "This will put all independent promoters at an irreparable competitive disadvantage. This would be like Pepsi forcing Coke to use its services as a distributor."
In response, Live Nation Chief Executive Michael Rapino said he understood the concern and would forbid sharing information between the divisions.
The subcommittee's chairman, Sen. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., asked if Rapino would support an information firewall between the businesses. Rapino replied: "In theory, yes."
Live Nation and Ticketmaster: ?Don?t stop Believing? (http://blogs.reuters.com/mediafile/2009/02/24/live-nation-and-ticketmaster-dont-stop-believing/)wow.
Live Nation and Ticketmaster might have plenty of people out there who are not pleased with the idea of the two companies coming together but they have received support from several superstars in the run-up to a U.S. anti-trust hearing in Washington DC on Tuesday.
Names like Seal, Shakira, Journey, Van Halen and Billy Corgan (The Smashing Pumpkins) have all offered support to a merger some legislators, smaller rivals and fan groups worry will put too much power over the U.S. and global live music industry in the hands of just one company.
Just more confirmation that Billy Corgan is nuts:
http://stereogum.com/archives/mr-corgan-goes-to-washington_057782.html
The most ridiculous part of his testimony is this sentence: "This is a new model that puts power into the hands of the artist, creating a dynamic synergy that will inspire great works and attract healthy competition."
power in the hands of the artist? Just because that's what his manager told him doesn't mean it's true. booooooo
The most ridiculous part of his testimony is this sentence:
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/c/ce/Lindsey_Naegle.png) (http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Lindsey_Naegle)
It's official...LN now own Jay-Z. (http://pitchfork.com/news/35401-jay-z-leaves-def-jam/)
That claim/statement is an absolute riot. It was the same bullshit they were attempting to convince the judiciary committee of during that hearing back in february.
during the course of all this, they have never put forth a single sentence explaining just how this merger will create their own efficiencies, let alone save the industryHey, this strategy won Obama a Nobel Peace Prize.
they just keep saying that it will
IMP has their own interests in this, not ours.NO!!!! REALLY?!?!?!?!?!
Seth has already said he won't care about high ticket prices until people stop coming.
Seth has already said he won't care about high ticket prices until people stop coming.
when did I say that
Seth has already said he won't care about high ticket prices until people stop coming.
when did I say that
i'm not sure if it was about prices . . . but i remember seth said something awhile ago on the lines of "if you don't like it then stay the fuck home." i fell in love with him after that. but i can't remember what it was in reference to.
Seth has already said he won't care about high ticket prices until people stop coming.
when did I say that
the problem with this merger is that neither of those entities have had any concern with supply & demand...they force their vision of economics on the world, and don't read the signs how it's working
I hate ticketmaster and livenation... but, practice what you preach.
In the last 12 years, since Live Nation and its predecessor started its widespread takeover of the concert industry, concert ticket prices have shot up 82% while the consumer price index has gone up just 17%*.Oh, so a monopoly drives up prices. Unless we're discussing you having a competing venue in your backyard, in which case competition drives up prices, right? So... which is it Seth?
Just out of curiosity, How do you feel about Wolf Trap?
Seth has already said he won't care about high ticket prices until people stop coming.when did I say that
OK let me revise that
this would be like someone buying the remaining guiness
anyway, point is, I am a capitalist and will charge you as much for a beer as I think I can get away with, before too many people get pissed off...same with tickets
but I would like to be the one setting those prices in my businesses, not someone else
and I have zero concern for people that categorically whine about prices going up, because those people have zero concern about my financial picture
capitalism as achieved by fair market competition
my recollection of antitrust law is admittedly rather vague, but i don't understand how this isn't textbook monopoly. creating dominating market share/control and using the power that allows to artifically destroy competitive environment, using contol of one part of the chain to control other parts of the chain . . .bundling.
if the DOJ lets it slide its a f*cking travesty
Anywho, props to Seth for coming to the forum for this discussion. I don't see anyone from Live Nation or Ticketmaster out here talking to us...LOL, are you 12?
Anywho, props to Seth for coming to the forum for this discussion. I don't see anyone from Live Nation or Ticketmaster out here talking to us...LOL, are you 12?
I know this guy is telling us his completely biased, self-serving side of the story here in HIS sandbox... but PROPS FOR DOING IT!!