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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: bearman🐻 on April 30, 2009, 09:32:18 am
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Is a douche.
http://www.nme.com/news/the-killers/44359
Not that I don't think that someone can be as big as Nirvana or Zep, but it just AIN'T gonna be his band.
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yes, brandon is a douch but i do see his point:
"But over here [in America], people are still so obsessed with Led Zeppelin and Nirvana, those sorts of bands, that nobody else is allowed [to grow]."
He added: "It?s not just us; there are a lot of great bands that have been held down or confined by the influence of these people that we?ve put up on pedestals. I?m tired of it, you know? I just want to knock them all off! And people don?t like that attitude. It?s almost like they don?t believe that it?s possible that anybody else can be the real deal.
the eagles sell out stadiums with $300 floor tickets. the most popular radio format these days is classic rock (other than urban/top 40, i suppose). there are more reunion tours than new bands on tour. the public doesn't want new and great, we want old and comfortable (omg, it is just me or am i sounding a bit like dupek?!? :D)
if the killers has kept up the momentum they built on Hot Fuss, they might have been The Next Big Thing. but between mediocre follow-ups and general douchiness...
he definitely is getting flak for publicly saying what a lot of people are thinking. but at this point there isn't anything that can come out of the mouth of brandon that won't sound egomaniacal.
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If Brandon had any balls he'd be going after similar lame artists who are his contemporary along the lines of Fall Out Boy, Panic At The Disco(!), Kanye West, Nickleback, Three Days Grace, etc, barf bag, etc... These are ones "keeping" him down in terms of "popularity" I really don't see who legacy artists who aren't touring or only re-releasing material make much impact on his bands popularity.
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His band's popularity is "kept down" by the two bat-shit terrible follow-ups they put up after their one great LP. I cannot possibly take the guy-who-wrote-"are we human, or are we dancer"'s complaints seriously.
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I cannot possibly take the guy-who-wrote-"are we human, or are we dancer"'s complaints seriously.
i completely agree.
But it is astonishing that when thinking of bands that will be remembered forever, Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, even U2, Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Pumpkins.....what band that has come out in the last even 10 years will ever gain that status?
Is it really cause of shitty music, or has the internet really killed the chance for one band to gain so much market share. or maybe rock n roll really is dead!
but the Killers do suck it hard.
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but the Killers do suck it hard.
i think this is what's really keeping his band down.
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I cannot possibly take the guy-who-wrote-"are we human, or are we dancer"'s complaints seriously.
But it is astonishing that when thinking of bands that will be remembered forever, Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, even U2, Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Pumpkins.....what band that has come out in the last even 10 years will ever gain that status?
Bands that already have a shot at it:
Coldplay | Kings of Leon | The Killers | The White Stripes
Bands that may yet have a shot at it:
My Morning Jacket | The Arcade Fire | LCD Soundsystem | Death Cab for Cutie | Muse
I also think Silversun Pickups, The Raconteurs, Yeah Yeah Yeahs and some others have potential to go down that road, but it is too early to tell.
All of them are bands with great live shows and big followings that don't show any sign of letting up at the present. I'm not necessarily saying they're as good or as relevant or what have you - but they're on the rise, and have big catalogs (excepting LCD and Arcade Fire) that would seem to indicate that they have some staying power and ability to keep churning out good (or, marketable) material.
And, like it or not, there are plenty of budding stars in non-rock realms that are going to be stars as big as the folks you mentioned (see: Taylor Swift, et al)
UPDATE: Oh, and Daft Punk's last tour ensured they'll be remembered forever as having one of the best live shows of all time.
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I cannot possibly take the guy-who-wrote-"are we human, or are we dancer"'s complaints seriously.
i completely agree.
But it is astonishing that when thinking of bands that will be remembered forever, Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, even U2, Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Pumpkins.....what band that has come out in the last even 10 years will ever gain that status?
Is it really cause of shitty music, or has the internet really killed the chance for one band to gain so much market share. or maybe rock n roll really is dead!
but the Killers do suck it hard.
Most of the bands mentioned didn't have instant success, they all had some tours and couple albums into their careers before they became big. Pearl Jam had a success debut, but there was the Green River connection and they worked that album with extensive touring.
These days the Internet, American Idol, TV Show soundtracks all allow mediocrity to rise to the top very quickly. Major labels don't care about developing artists anymore, they much prefer to only go for instant blockbuster success. Mid level "indie" bands have realized it's more economical to remain well known verses famous as they are able to make a decent living on their own terms verses being crushed by a major label most likely not interest in their success after all.
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don't you think wearing guyliner ruined it?
(http://www.arjanwrites.com/photos/uncategorized/newxboxrevealed0505050685cs.jpg)
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I think Flowers' comment about Nirvana taking the fun out of music goes to show how little he understands the business. I like some metal but really now, it had gotten so overdone and Nirvana truly was the breath of fresh air, but of course they sold like mad and then after that record labels just saw $$$$$$, so that was it. I don't disagree that rock'n'roll as a genre is pretty much mutating into something so watered down that the days of bands like the Who or even the Clash are kinda done. And I see Flowers' point about how it would be nice to see someone take over, but his band blew it, lost momentum here in the States, and I cannot fathom that they'll ever seriously be in the running. I'm not saying music today sucks, it's just VERY different. But really now...we are kind of not the norm when it comes to music fans. Some of us still will buy every single LP put out by our favorite bands, or fill in our collections with Australian-only releases because of the 3 bonus live tracks that we can't get anywhere else. Or the double-CD third reissue of "OK Computer" because there's a hidden track of Thom Yorke burping out "Fake Plastic Trees" in a porta-potty at Glastonbury 96 or whatever. Music geeks like most of us boardies are still buying records, and those numbers are dropping off. The Killers (or anyone else for that matter) has to put out THE album that people who only buy 2 CDs a year will buy. Only then will you be the next Nirvana or Shania Twat.
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Bands that already have a shot at it:
Coldplay | Kings of Leon | The Killers | The White Stripes
good list. killers are at the bottom of it, tho, and KoL aren't a lot higher. and to get really nit-picky, muse's first album came out over 10 years ago (although most folks only heard of them in the last 10...)
Bands that may yet have a shot at it:
My Morning Jacket | The Arcade Fire | LCD Soundsystem | Death Cab for Cutie | Muse
I also think Silversun Pickups, The Raconteurs, Yeah Yeah Yeahs and some others have potential to go down that road, but it is too early to tell.
another excellent list. don't think the raconteurs will make it - had the potential but didn't take it far enough. maybe the dead weather will pick up where they left off. QOTSA are just over the 10-year cut-off we've given ourselves. LCD soundsystem need to do something big to stay in the running.
And, like it or not, there are plenty of budding stars in non-rock realms that are going to be stars as big as the folks you mentioned (see: Taylor Swift, et al)
and i'm thinking of hip hop/urban stars.
UPDATE: Oh, and Daft Punk's last tour ensured they'll be remembered forever as having one of the best live shows of all time.
this bears repeating.
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My guess is that Brandon's swipe at Nirvana has more to do with the fact that the anniversary of Curt's death recently occurred and he probably hear or read a story about it prior to sitting down to the interview. And he's probably annoyed with the fact that kidz buy more Led Zep than Killers T-shirts at Hot Topic.
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Well in the second division legacy league I see...
The Decemberists / Belle & Sebastian / Phoenix / Elliot Smith
You can also add R.E.M. and possibly the Stone Roses
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Bands that already have a shot at it:
Coldplay | Kings of Leon | The Killers | The White Stripes
Bands that may yet have a shot at it:
My Morning Jacket | The Arcade Fire | LCD Soundsystem | Death Cab for Cutie | Muse
i agree with Coldplay and had thought that already, but i like to pretend they dont exist. The White Stripes are the best band on that list, but somehow, i think Jack will get bored and just stop too soon, and go on to something else (has he already?)
Death Cab and MMJ are good ones too, i guess. but i just can't see anyone uttering "Stones, Beatles, Death Cab"
and LCD Soundsystem.....i dont know where you pulled that one. completely random.
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Bands that already have a shot at it:
Coldplay | Kings of Leon | The Killers | The White Stripes
Bands that may yet have a shot at it:
My Morning Jacket | The Arcade Fire | LCD Soundsystem | Death Cab for Cutie | Muse
Death Cab and MMJ are good ones too, i guess. but i just can't see anyone uttering "Stones, Beatles, Death Cab"
That's just because you're not 16 :)
and LCD Soundsystem.....i dont know where you pulled that one. completely random.
Selling out clubs, playing big festival appearances, and largely holding it down in a big way in a live setting - no matter how big the audience. They also have two hugely acclaimed records - very similar to the Arcade Fire in this respect.
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Stones, Beatles, Wilco.
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Well in the second division legacy league I see...
The Decemberists / Belle & Sebastian / Phoenix / Elliot Smith
elliot smith? srsly? the decemberists aren't there yet (but have potential). B&S are too niche.
You can also add R.E.M. and possibly the Stone Roses
don't make our 10-year cut-off.
Wilco.
don't make our 10-year cut-off.
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Selling out clubs, playing big festival appearances, and largely holding it down in a big way in a live setting - no matter how big the audience. They also have two hugely acclaimed records - very similar to the Arcade Fire in this respect.
we'll have to agree to disagree then. Arcade Fire? as big as the Rolling Stones? not even in Canada.
lets not diminish was Flowers was saying here, we're talking biggest bands in the world, ever.
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People are going to remember the Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam, and Radiohead? Really?
I'm more than a casual music fan, and I couldn't name a Smashing Pumpkins song other than Rat in a Cage, a Pearl Jam song that wasn't on their debut, or a Radiohead song other than Creep or a few songs from The Bends.
I don't think the three of those bands will ever approach anything near Stones/Beatles status in the psyche of the general public, most likely because they didn't come out in the early years of rock and roll, when classic rock tastes were first being cultivated.
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People are going to remember the Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam, and Radiohead? Really?
I'm more than a casual music fan, and I couldn't name a Smashing Pumpkins song other than Rat in a Cage, a Pearl Jam song that wasn't on their debut, or a Radiohead song other than Creep or a few songs from The Bends.
i think this says more about you than it does about them!
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Well in the second division legacy league I see...
The Decemberists / Belle & Sebastian / Phoenix / Elliot Smith
elliot smith? srsly? the decemberists aren't there yet (but have potential). B&S are too niche.
You can also add R.E.M. and possibly the Stone Roses
don't make our 10-year cut-off.
Wilco.
don't make our 10-year cut-off.
Note: I said second division.... For every Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys, Led Zep, The Who there are artists whose legacy is going to last for a smaller subset of people. i.e. The Kinks, The Creation, The Hollies, Big Star, The Zombies, Love, Roky Erickson, etc. There are also going to be cult legacy artists which Elliot Smith embodies.
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Selling out clubs, playing big festival appearances, and largely holding it down in a big way in a live setting - no matter how big the audience. They also have two hugely acclaimed records - very similar to the Arcade Fire in this respect.
we'll have to agree to disagree then. Arcade Fire? as big as the Rolling Stones? not even in Canada.
lets not diminish was Flowers was saying here, we're talking biggest bands in the world, ever.
Well, I think we're saying roughly the same thing. I didn't say they were going to be that big - I said they have the potential to do so, given the level of excitement and interest surrounding them. In all likelihood, they won't get there - but this is the crop of bands that are at least on the right pathway.
Personally, I think its more likely that Arcade Fire ends up running a course like that of the Talking Heads, and LCD Soundsystem mirrors Kraftwerk - of course, this is assuming that they continue to put out albums.
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The Zombies, Love, Roky Erickson
'Nuff said!
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The Strokes
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The Strokes
You could interchange the Strokes/ The Killers/ Franz Ferdinand and each of their debuts into Sweetcell's comment.
if the killers has kept up the momentum they built on Hot Fuss, they might have been The Next Big Thing. but between mediocre follow-ups and general douchiness...
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thinking about it, franz ferdinand almost had a shot at it.
People are going to remember the Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam, and Radiohead? Really?
I'm more than a casual music fan, and I couldn't name a Smashing Pumpkins song other than Rat in a Cage, a Pearl Jam song that wasn't on their debut, or a Radiohead song other than Creep or a few songs from The Bends.
I don't think the three of those bands will ever approach anything near Stones/Beatles status in the psyche of the general public, most likely because they didn't come out in the early years of rock and roll, when classic rock tastes were first being cultivated.
agreed that you really needed to be active in the 60's through 80's to attain god-like status, but PJ and radiohead will be remembered. SP won't.
Note: I said second division.... For every Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys, Led Zep, The Who there are artists whose legacy is going to last for a smaller subset of people. i.e. The Kinks, The Creation, The Hollies, Big Star, The Zombies, Love, Roky Erickson, etc. There are also going to be cult legacy artists which Elliot Smith embodies.
oh, ok, in which case you strayed off-topic:
But it is astonishing that when thinking of bands that will be remembered forever, Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, even U2, Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Pumpkins.....what band that has come out in the last even 10 years will ever gain that status?
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You could interchange the Strokes/ The Killers/ Franz Ferdinand and each of their debuts into Sweetcell's comment.
agreed, although FF had two solid albums before shatting the bed. killers only had one, and i don't have a proper appreciation of "room on fire".
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if the killers has kept up the momentum they built on Hot Fuss, they might have been The Next Big Thing. but between mediocre follow-ups and general douchiness...
To an extent, I think you can argue they have kept that momentum - they're still headlining big festivals around the world, they're playing small arenas; they just haven't made a jump to the full indoor arena level (Verizon Center, etc). They're basically on the same level that Kings of Leon is now on. I will give you that it definitely seems like Kings has more momentum than the Killers at the moment, however.
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You could interchange the Strokes/ The Killers/ Franz Ferdinand and each of their debuts into Sweetcell's comment.
agreed, although FF had two solid albums before shatting the bed. killers only had one, and i don't have a proper appreciation of "room on fire".
I think the biggest difference, however, is how the mainstream media has reacted to these bands. The Killers has been generally embraced (singles from all of their albums have ended up on the radio), while the Strokes and Franz Ferdinand didn't have legs beyond their first albums.
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I think another band worth mentioning as having a spot in the future is Animal Collective. It should be noted that they have an incredibly rabid fanbase (almost comparable to Radiohead's) and are currently selling out their shows at an impressive pace. Their most recent album had a TON of hype surrounding it. You want an example of a band that is really gaining momentum, then AC is definitely one to mention.
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I think another band worth mentioning as having a spot in the future is Animal Collective. It should be noted that they have an incredibly rabid fanbase (almost comparable to Radiohead's) and are currently selling out their shows at an impressive pace. Their most recent album had a TON of hype surrounding it. You want an example of a band that is really gaining momentum, then AC is definitely one to mention.
Valid point, but I don't see there being a prayer of Animal Collective playing anywhere larger than D.A.R. Constitution Hall.
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To an extent, I think you can argue they have kept that momentum - they're still headlining big festivals around the world, they're playing small arenas; they just haven't made a jump to the full indoor arena level (Verizon Center, etc). They're basically on the same level that Kings of Leon is now on. I will give you that it definitely seems like Kings has more momentum than the Killers at the moment, however.
interesting that both bands are bigger in europe than in north america.
I think another band worth mentioning as having a spot in the future is Animal Collective. It should be noted that they have an incredibly rabid fanbase (almost comparable to Radiohead's) and are currently selling out their shows at an impressive pace. Their most recent album had a TON of hype surrounding it. You want an example of a band that is really gaining momentum, then AC is definitely one to mention.
disagreed. AC was mostly blog-hype with some (unsustained) interest in the mainstream. how many AC songs do you hear on popular radio? none. what size venues are they playing? theaters and halls, not arenas and stadiums. they aren't headlining big-name festivals. their fans are indeed rabid... but there are too few of them, at the moment, to warrant consideration IMO.
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I'll give you that, but just give them some time. I'm curious to see how much hype there is for their next album, as well as venue sizes for their next tour. They sold out the club within 2 days of going sale - and this was before the show was actually advertised. I'm curious to see how high they'll be billed on festival lineups around the release of their next album.
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i think you might underestimate AC just a bit. granted, they're much more likely to settle into the sonic youth/flaming lips career path/popularity. but if they hit their 95% PECOTA projection they could get to ... well, not radiohead level, but something approaching that. in any case, 20 years from now there's no question they'll be far more relevant than kings of leon or the killers. but that won't really be a select group.
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i think you might underestimate AC just a bit. granted, they're much more likely to settle into the sonic youth/flaming lips career path/popularity. but if they hit their 95% PECOTA projection they could get to ... well, not radiohead level, but something approaching that. in any case, 20 years from now there's no question they'll be far more relevant than kings of leon or the killers. but that won't really be a select group.
I might be underestimating - sure. But I also don't see Animal Collective's music or stage show translating in a space much bigger than Constitution Hall. Can you imagine seeing Animal Collective at the Verizon Center? Or even the Patriot Center for that matter? I'm better able to accept the idea that they could become a group playing sheds, but even then - that's a lot of people for a band whose music is designed to be avant garde.
I also think it is debatable how relevant they'll be 20 years from now. Relevance is an interesting question in general, as it depends on how you define it.
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Yeah Yeah Yeahs are getting there...they are definitely headliner material now.
Muse are not that big in the US. They don't have a platinum record here and definitely not a household name.
Arcade Fire has the potential.
Silversun Pickups, nope. I don't see them having a big future. And the 5.3 review of the new album by Pitchfork doesn't help...
Bands that may yet have a shot at it:
My Morning Jacket | The Arcade Fire | LCD Soundsystem | Death Cab for Cutie | Muse
I also think Silversun Pickups, The Raconteurs, Yeah Yeah Yeahs and some others have potential to go down that road, but it is too early to tell.
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Silversun Pickups, nope. I don't see them having a big future. And the 5.3 review of the new album by Pitchfork doesn't help...
Apart from the Arcade Fire (and maybe LCD Soundsystem, of the bands I listed), I don't think Pitchfork propels bands to potential stardom on the level we're talking about. I can't think of an example of a band that Pitchfork broke that has gotten that big - am I missing somebody?
As for Silversun Pickups - as I said, I think it is too early to tell, but modern rock radio is all over them, and they're licensing their stuff everywhere.
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Fleet Foxes and Animal Collective...but we shall see in next couple albums...
Apart from the Arcade Fire (and maybe LCD Soundsystem, of the bands I listed), I don't think Pitchfork propels bands to potential stardom on the level we're talking about. I can't think of an example of a band that Pitchfork broke that has gotten that big - am I missing somebody?
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I think Green Day had the momentum, they are playing Verizon Center and seem to have a rabid fanbase. But I don't think they fit the 10 year rule.
Matchbox 20 could have had a little thing going for them. But not within the 10 years.
I see no way Silversun and AC get to this level. I can hardly imagine a DAR headline show by them, much less an arena tour. Even though I loathe them, Coldplay seems the only one that really has made it big recently.
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i think you might underestimate AC just a bit. granted, they're much more likely to settle into the sonic youth/flaming lips career path/popularity. but if they hit their 95% PECOTA projection they could get to ... well, not radiohead level, but something approaching that. in any case, 20 years from now there's no question they'll be far more relevant than kings of leon or the killers. but that won't really be a select group.
I might be underestimating - sure. But I also don't see Animal Collective's music or stage show translating in a space much bigger than Constitution Hall. Can you imagine seeing Animal Collective at the Verizon Center? Or even the Patriot Center for that matter? I'm better able to accept the idea that they could become a group playing sheds, but even then - that's a lot of people for a band whose music is designed to be avant garde.
I also think it is debatable how relevant they'll be 20 years from now. Relevance is an interesting question in general, as it depends on how you define it.
sure, i can imagine seeing animal collective at verizon center. i'm imagining it right now. there it is. i see it. damn, it's fucking empty in there! who booked this show?!?!
seriously though, say there are 1,500 people at an AC show right now and say there are 8,000 people at a KOL show. i bet if you asked everyone at their respective show if the band they were seeing was one of their very favorite bands you'd end up with roughly the same number of "yes" responses. i don't see AC losing any fans in the near future. i think they'll only gain fans, even if they don't make a record as good as "MPP" again. KOL/killers don't have that loyalty, or the overwhelming popularity of pearl jam back in the day. like, i know KOL pretty much sold out the patriot center, but back in like 94 PJ sold out the patriot center in a matter of minutes, and that was before internet shenanigans.
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sure, i can imagine seeing animal collective at verizon center. i'm imagining it right now. there it is. i see it. damn, it's fucking empty in there! who booked this show?!?!
seriously though, say there are 1,500 people at an AC show right now and say there are 8,000 people at a KOL show. i bet if you asked everyone at their respective show if the band they were seeing was one of their very favorite bands you'd end up with roughly the same number of "yes" responses. i don't see AC losing any fans in the near future. i think they'll only gain fans, even if they don't make a record as good as "MPP" again. KOL/killers don't have that loyalty, or the overwhelming popularity of pearl jam back in the day. like, i know KOL pretty much sold out the patriot center, but back in like 94 PJ sold out the patriot center in a matter of minutes, and that was before internet shenanigans.
It is an interesting question. I personally think indie rock fans are much more finicky than more mainstream fans. I think you'd probably have a larger percentage of people at an 8,000 person KOL or Killers show who would profess that ZOMG THIS IS MY FAVORITE BAND EVER than you would at an Animal Collective show, where you'd probably get a lot more qualification on any opinion.
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"Where Are They Now?"
Matchbox 20 could have had a little thing going for them. But not within the 10 years.
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"Where Are They Now?"
Matchbox 20 could have had a little thing going for them. But not within the 10 years.
Talk about a wet box of matches!
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I think the state of the music industry and people's shorter attention spans means that we won't see another band achieve the status of Beatles or Rolling Stones or even U2 for quite some time. Something needs to happen where the idea of an LP or CD or record or whatever returns to the masses and lots of people will actually make the time to sit and listen to an entire LP a la "Dark Side of the Moon". Maybe pot needs to be legalized in order for that to happen? I dunno.
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I agree with him, I'm not saying HE deserves the credit but he's fucking right. It's mostly attributed to people NOT needing the radio to get new music all the time, it seems like a shitload of people stopped listening to the radio at the begining of the decade. Which is why 'Let The Bodies Hit The Floor' and a bunch of other shitty rock songs are still on rotation for 'modern rock' stations. Mastodon will never get played on the radio, maybe 10 or 15 years ago they would have but now bands don't need the radio to expand. Kings of Leon tried for 3 albums to re-create their success in the UK here in the US and it took 1 song on the radio to blow them up from 930 club shows to damn near selling out the Patriot Center. People who listen to the radio will listen to just about 80% of what's played on the radio and it's fucking sickening.
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I have no idea what you're ranting on about, but you really shouldn't let it make you sick.
I agree with him, I'm not saying HE deserves the credit but he's fucking right. It's mostly attributed to people NOT needing the radio to get new music all the time, it seems like a shitload of people stopped listening to the radio at the begining of the decade. Which is why 'Let The Bodies Hit The Floor' and a bunch of other shitty rock songs are still on rotation for 'modern rock' stations. Mastodon will never get played on the radio, maybe 10 or 15 years ago they would have but now bands don't need the radio to expand. Kings of Leon tried for 3 albums to re-create their success in the UK here in the US and it took 1 song on the radio to blow them up from 930 club shows to damn near selling out the Patriot Center. People who listen to the radio will listen to just about 80% of what's played on the radio and it's fucking sickening.
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Joe 6 pack has shit taste in music.
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justin timberlake falls with the 10 yr guideline
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So a few friends were discussing this topic last night, of bands seemingly never being able to live up to the old bands before them.
We thought this to be the same with electronic DJs and producers. And I think its just beacuse they were doing something someone had never done before. DJs like Carl Cox, Saunderson and even Frankie Bones (to name a tiny few) made this stuff up almost out of nowhere. Sure, the foundation was laid but this music from them, was just as fresh as Zeppelin or the Beatles when they came out. Sure, every dude with a laptop can be a DJ now and technology is much better, but the foundation for this sort of music has been laid and no DJ from now or ever will be able to top what the pioneers did.
anyway, thought i'd share.