930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Ardamus on January 21, 2010, 08:29:58 pm
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http://www.change.org/actions/view/tell_the_department_of_justice_to_block_the_ticketmaster-live_nation_merger (http://www.change.org/actions/view/tell_the_department_of_justice_to_block_the_ticketmaster-live_nation_merger)
Targeting: Christine A. Varney (Assistant Attorney General for Antitrust, U.S. Department of Justice)
Started by: John Breyault
There's a train wreck about to happen and consumer groups say YOU will be the victim if the two most powerful corporate interests in the live concert business get their way. But you can help stop the merger of Ticketmaster and Live Nation. The government needs to hear from live event fans now. Tell the Department of Justice that you're against these monopolies amassing illegal power over consumers - before it's too late.
As a concertgoer you have already felt the pain of high "convenience" fees, paired with inconvenient ticketing practices and poor service. If Ticketmaster and Live Nation get their way, it will get worse. History bears this fear out. From 1996 to 2003, ticket prices shot up by 82% while the consumer price index increased by just 17% -- at the same time that Ticketmaster and Live Nation (then known as SFX Entertainment and later, Clear Channel Entertainment) were busy buying up rivals in the live event industry. If these two live event industry behemoths are permitted to merge, the variety and quality of artists coming to local venues will be negatively affected, while the costs to consumers would shoot through the roof.
If you agree with the consumer groups and lawmakers, make a difference and LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD NOW.
Send a message to the Antitrust Division of the Department of Justice telling them you support President Obama's campaign promise to protect the American public from abusive monopolies.
You don't have to sign. I just want to get some thoughts on this issue.
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Although I agree with the sentiment the petition as written is amateurish...
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^^^^^^^
(http://www.stat.pitt.edu/stoffer/index_files/char_natch.gif)
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The writing's not good....I agree. But if this blocks indie artists from being able to book certain venues....we have another issue on our hands.
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Actually Ardamus, I'm completely with you as I don't have a problem with it. After all, it is the message that counts. Not the fluffy stuff. I just couldn't help but to take the piss on Mr. Natural above.
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I'd be shocked if the merger is not approved
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I'd be shocked if the merger is not approved
Same here. After all, it's all part of the Nue-Fascism.
The bastards just passed a bill today (or yesterday, by my clock) that lifts limits on corporations for campaign donations but keeps them for individuals. If you truly know what Fascism is, than you understand how this gives them more power while repressing the common man.
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The bastards just passed a bill today (or yesterday, by my clock) that lifts limits on corporations for campaign donations but keeps them for individuals. If you truly know what Fascism is, than you understand how this gives them more power while repressing the common man.
I usually get my political commentary from someone who understands the difference between the Supreme Court ruling someway and "a bill [getting] passed."
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People may already know this, but Seth gave his Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony about a year ago. Read it if you haven't already, it provides a pretty interesting perspective:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3674&wit_id=7625 (http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3674&wit_id=7625)
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People may already know this, but Seth gave his Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony about a year ago. Read it if you haven't already, it provides a pretty interesting perspective:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3674&wit_id=7625 (http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3674&wit_id=7625)
No, it provides a biased perspective from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. We've been over this a thousand times.
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Are you sure? Seth PM's me pretty regularly, reminding me that everything he does is solely for my enjoyment. Except booking Cage the Elephant and State Radio on three consecutive nights...he did that just to piss me off.
People may already know this, but Seth gave his Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony about a year ago. Read it if you haven't already, it provides a pretty interesting perspective:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3674&wit_id=7625 (http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3674&wit_id=7625)
No, it provides a biased perspective from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. We've been over this a thousand times.
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They should sell 3-day passes to that and call it Poopfest.
I'd buy a ticket and won't go just so that I can have a real ticket with "Poopfest" written on it.
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Are you sure? Seth PM's me pretty regularly, reminding me that everything he does is solely for my enjoyment.
Clearly you're better in bed then the rest of us.
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from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?
none? seriously? how about having good artists perform at the club? ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return? providing a safe environment? these are some of my best interests...
admittedly the price/revenue thing puts us in conflict, but the above ensures there is middle ground.
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The bastards just passed a bill today (or yesterday, by my clock) that lifts limits on corporations for campaign donations but keeps them for individuals. If you truly know what Fascism is, than you understand how this gives them more power while repressing the common man.
I usually get my political commentary from someone who understands the difference between the Supreme Court ruling someway and "a bill [getting] passed."
Yet another one who misses the point and chooses to waste time on fluff rather than real issues that truly affect us all. ::)
While Seth does watch out for his bottom line, at least he obviously cares about offering something of quality in return. Won't defend him in the least on the drink prices but I don't know all the particulars involved with his business so will remain a fan and respect what all he does for us. Besides, if he doesn't make some kind of profit, the club and IMP go out of business and we end up with nothing but the Clear Craps/Dead Nations/Ticketbastards and RNR Blowtels of the world.
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Regardless of whose interest Seth has in mind, I think the result he is pulling for is beneficial to all of us.
People may already know this, but Seth gave his Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony about a year ago. Read it if you haven't already, it provides a pretty interesting perspective:
http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3674&wit_id=7625 (http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3674&wit_id=7625)
No, it provides a biased perspective from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. We've been over this a thousand times.
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from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?
none? seriously? how about having good artists perform at the club? ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return? providing a safe environment? these are some of my best interests...
None of those things have anything to do with his comments on the LN/TM merger, and any claim otherwise is simply fearmongering. Seth's 100% motivation (as it should be) is his bottom line and how the merger will affect him; any attempts to frame the issue otherwise or add window dressing or play to an audience is simply farce.
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Just because a weatherman owns a snow plowing company, doesn't mean you shouldn't believe him if he says it's going to snow and has the data to prove it
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Just because a weatherman owns a snow plowing company, doesn't mean you shouldn't believe him if he says it's going to snow and has the data to prove it
Just because a KKK member writes a discertation about how bringing back slavery would create a cheap workforce and boost the economy, doesn't mean we should make him the Chariman of the Federal Reserve.
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Personally, I always try to consider a point someone is making, regardless of their agenda
even when it's you
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Just because a weatherman owns a snow plowing company, doesn't mean you shouldn't believe him if he says it's going to snow and has the data to prove it
Just because a KKK member writes a discertation about how bringing back slavery would create a cheap workforce and boost the economy, doesn't mean we should make him the Chariman of the Federal Reserve.
Quite true but I think you've lost sight of the difference between a snow job and a blow job.
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Personally, I always try to consider a point someone is making, regardless of their agenda
even when it's you
wow :o haha ;D
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from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?
none? seriously? how about having good artists perform at the club? ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return? providing a safe environment? these are some of my best interests...
None of those things have anything to do with his comments on the LN/TM merger, and any claim otherwise is simply fearmongering.
you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club? one might answer "not any more than LN already does", but i don't buy that. they're consolidating to take over the industry and squeeze as much as they can out of it. they'll be in that much better position to do so after the merger.
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from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?
none? seriously? how about having good artists perform at the club? ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return? providing a safe environment? these are some of my best interests...
None of those things have anything to do with his comments on the LN/TM merger, and any claim otherwise is simply fearmongering.
you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club? one might answer "not any more than LN already does", but i don't buy that. they're consolidating to take over the industry and squeeze as much as they can out of it. they'll be in that much better position to do so after the merger.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
And that is one of the major chunks of meat of the issue.
Thank you Sweets, for serving it up.
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you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club?
I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.
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Just because a weatherman owns a snow plowing company, doesn't mean you shouldn't believe him if he says it's going to snow and has the data to prove it
Just because a KKK member writes a discertation about how bringing back slavery would create a cheap workforce and boost the economy, doesn't mean we should make him the Chariman of the Federal Reserve.
"discertation"
Is that the Richmond spelling?
I once went to Richmond with a girlfriend back in the late 90's. Upon coming back to her car, we found a leaflet promoting a local KKK meeting on our windshield.
True story.
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you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club?
I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.
That is where the other pieces of meat come into play. Many of us don't want the Grade B cuts when we can have Grade A. Besides, historically, once a monopoly; or duopoly in some cases; gets in and takes over, that's when they then ratchet up the prices even further and offer less to the paying public while pushing all the locals out of the game plan. You think Jiffy Lube Live is laughable? Just wait till you get pure Wal-Martizing of the bigger concert scene. It effects much more than just seeing Brand X at Club A or Club B. Much, much more.
And Rhett, screw it with the spelling nit picking! You're worrying about whether you're putting butter or margarine on your broccoli (I know you're a veg.) instead of whether or not it's a nice stalk of organic instead of over-cooked and processed frozen crap.
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James Ford is a veg? Is that the secret to his beauty?
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you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club?
I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out?because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me?and there was no one left to speak out.
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Personally, I always try to consider a point someone is making, regardless of their agenda
even when it's you
wow :o haha ;D
LOL, I knew something better than I expected would come out of this thread. :D Hahaha, that just made my day......
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What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.
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Yeah cause Seth hasn't been pushing up prices.
Its not just LN pushing up prices.. its the competition between LN and IMP..its the artists who don't sell records anymore and need to make their money on concerts...
Last time I checked both IMP and LN book concerts at the substandard DAR... both screw over patrons on ticket charges..both suck as much out of you on beer prices...
In fact, IMP arguably charges more for beer than LN.
But I mean what is really the argument here? That because LN merges with TM they will limit artists from playing the 930? How exactly?
And how would LN drive out IMP??? Right now IMP seems to me to be doing far better... LN in this area is limited to the Warner (rare concert here and there/high costs due to unions), the ocasional rental at DAR or Patriot and the shitshow at Nissan now Jiffy Lube..
IMP has it pretty good with the 930, Merriweather and their rentals at DAR plus bookings at Ramshead Live etc...I'd say IMP is actually handily taking it to LN and I don't see that changing because LN owns a ticket service provider or what have you...
If IMP really wants to defeat LN or protect his position he should build a bigger venue..a state of the art 930 style place but for 2500-3000.. and stop worrying so much about LN. He could then forget about DAR/preempt the LN Fillmore in Silver Spring and book bands like Wilco guaranteening them more money per performance.. They would not have to play the Strathmore....
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from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?
none? seriously? how about having good artists perform at the club? ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return? providing a safe environment? these are some of my best interests...
None of those things have anything to do with his comments on the LN/TM merger, and any claim otherwise is simply fearmongering.
you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club? one might answer "not any more than LN already does", but i don't buy that. they're consolidating to take over the industry and squeeze as much as they can out of it. they'll be in that much better position to do so after the merger.
thats part of my whole point with posting this article/petition. if you honestly think prices will stay the same with the merger going thru, you've had one too many drinks and do not understand basic supply and demand in economics when it comes to the business world. ever been thru a merger at a company? they lay-off/rearrange staff, make budget cuts, and try to hit their new financial goals within the fiscal with what the two merging companies have planned. which means, prices that people are used to paying as concert goers in this instance will get higher.
if they don't drive up prices, its a damn miracle......
just something to think on......
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If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.
now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript. concert venues are not undifferentiated products.
you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930? i definitely have a preference.
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If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.
now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript. concert venues are not undifferentiated products.
you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930? i definitely have a preference.
Thats right and DAR BLOWS and IMP has no problem booking shows there.. Whats your point?
Honestly the IMP groupies need to get real.
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If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.
now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript. concert venues are not undifferentiated products.
you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930? i definitely have a preference.
Well RNR Hotel IS a much smaller venue, so given the choice, I'd rather see a band play there.
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James Ford is a veg? Is that the secret to his beauty?
And you thought that he was just a tool. :D
Rhett, I do agree with you that we need to keep the apples in one basket and the oranges in another as one can't compare one venue to another when their size capacity is much different. Stick to similiars and then we've got fair ground to argue.
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you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club?
I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out?because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me?and there was no one left to speak out.
Odd that you posted this; and very accurate and appropriate. Earlier I almost posted this quote by Mohandas Gandhi, as it's been very important and true for me lately:
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
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Thats right and DAR BLOWS and IMP has no problem booking shows there.. Whats your point?
DAR doesn't suck. you might believe so, i and many others don't. i've been to plenty of shows that sounded great there. i'd like arcade fire to play in my living room too, but that ain't gonna happen. so what was your point?
Well RNR Hotel IS a much smaller venue, so given the choice, I'd rather see a band play there.
seeing a band in a smaller venue is great, but not the RnR - it's cramped, sight lines are horrible, gets way to hot, and the PA sounds like shit. i'd rather have better sound in a nicer club, at the expense of having to share the space with more people.
also, i wonder how much our tastes in bands explain this difference: you generally prefer smaller acts that actually play the RnR. when those bands "move up" to the 930, you've typically lost interest, prefer their earlier work, etc.
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What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.
I think this because I'm a firm believer in the Gospel Doctorine of Hurwitz Economy. When we were talking about a Silver Spring venue, all we heard from Seth was that competition is bad! Why, if you have only one venue wanting Band X to come play, Band X pretty much has to take their offer or leave it, but if you have two, well, then you have a bidding war, and the higher cost eventually paid to the band gets passed along in ticket prices.
Seems only reasonable that if the Hurwitz DC monopoly has kept prices relatively low (because, hey, Seth doesn't price gouge, right?), just imagine the same principle applied nationally. Bands have to take it or leave it when it comes to initial offers to play because there's nowhere else for them to go. Cost to venue = low, ergo, prices past along to consumers don't have to respond to competition. Bad for bands, good for me as a consumer.
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That is where the other pieces of meat come into play. Many of us don't want the Grade B cuts when we can have Grade A. Besides, historically, once a monopoly; or duopoly in some cases; gets in and takes over, that's when they then ratchet up the prices even further and offer less to the paying public while pushing all the locals out of the game plan.
I'm going to ignore the fact that you seem unable to understand that your OPINION that the 930 Club is fundamentally better then every "corporate" venue out there is a small, minority opinion not shared by the majority of consumers, first of all.
For the sake of argument, let's say you're right on that. The 9:30 Club and the experience with attending it is better then attending a similar LiveNation owned venue. It is Grade A meat, as opposed to Grade B. Do you want filet mignon instead of Taco Bell ground beef? OK, that's your prerogative. Are you willing to pay slightly more to have it? Again, super. If this legislation passes, it is not as though the police are going to come the next day and put yellow tape over the 930 Club's doors. They will still be open, and if you want to go, great! And if average ticket costs at 930 club are, I dunno, $30, and at a LiveNation venue, $25, then you and everyone else will have the absolute right to pay the $5 more to see a show there. And if enough people want filet mignon, then both can co-exist. And if too many are willing to settle for Taco Bell ground beef, then that's the unseen hand of free market economy at work. But fighting to not letting people have options and make their own choice just because you fear your choice will be so massively unpopular that it won't remain financially viable is just selfish.
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seeing a band in a smaller venue is great, but not the RnR - it's cramped, sight lines are horrible, gets way to hot, and the PA sounds like shit. i'd rather have better sound in a nicer club, at the expense of having to share the space with more people.
also, i wonder how much our tastes in bands explain this difference: you generally prefer smaller acts that actually play the RnR. when those bands "move up" to the 930, you've typically lost interest, prefer their earlier work, etc.
I've had the complete opposite experience at RnR. Except for the "gets way too hot" comment. That I have experienced. But the sound, IMO, has been pretty on point.
And by smaller acts playing at RnR, I don't think there's as many as you say there are. From what I've seen, much more smaller acts played at places more like The Red & Black, Velvet Lounge, Asylum, and DC9. Occasionally, that back space at The Black Cat, too. I get your point about when they "move up" though......
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I bought some tickets through ticketmaster the other day. The service fee was actually lower than ticketfly/930 Club. I just post this because I know Julian would want to know.
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The sound at RNRH reminds me of a poorly ripped mp3. Exact same tinniness that makes me want to turn a bad mp3 off.
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What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.
I think this because I'm a firm believer in the Gospel Doctorine of Hurwitz Economy. When we were talking about a Silver Spring venue, all we heard from Seth was that competition is bad! Why, if you have only one venue wanting Band X to come play, Band X pretty much has to take their offer or leave it, but if you have two, well, then you have a bidding war, and the higher cost eventually paid to the band gets passed along in ticket prices.
Seems only reasonable that if the Hurwitz DC monopoly has kept prices relatively low (because, hey, Seth doesn't price gouge, right?), just imagine the same principle applied nationally. Bands have to take it or leave it when it comes to initial offers to play because there's nowhere else for them to go. Cost to venue = low, ergo, prices past along to consumers don't have to respond to competition. Bad for bands, good for me as a consumer.
As usual you leave out key points in the timeline.
Originally the SS Venue was intended to be a cabaret style with seating and lower capacity, which the owners of Birchmere (aka local DC competition) were in negotiations with the County for several years over.
Those talks sudden broke down and within months the county reached a deal with Live Nation, with out offering IMP the opportunity to even submit a counter proposal. When the county executive claims to know nothing about one of the largest independent promoters who happens to located in his own back yard and instead turned immediately to LiveNation, one begins to wonder.
It's not the just the threat of competition that get people's attention, but when it's done with essentially what amounts to corporate welfare it's should come under fire.
So if LiveNation is this huge powerhouse, why didn't they build their own venue prior to the SS deal?
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Not to mention the fact that the LN venue is being partially subsidized by our (us citizens of Montgomery County of which Seth is one) tax dollars. I would be kind of bitter too if I had a business and was forced to pay for the development of a competing business that will lie a few miles from my business.
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In slides Kosmo with the winning punch!!!
Such an important point that cannot be brushed aside so easily as though it's some minor and unimportant detail. Even if you don't like Seth and/or IMP, one must recognize what a dirty and lowdown backroom deal this was against the citizens' best interests.
Julian, what I've been saying is not just my 'opinion' as you'd prefer to believe. These things do happen all the time and more and more often lately.
You really need to see the bigger picture and not just some smaller detail that can be twisted around to suit your grudge against Seth's business. Yes, you've made some good points but they lose value when examined in relation to the bigger picture.
Another angle that has not been addressed within this thread is how this all affects the various bands. The exclusivity contracts and takes on ticket sales and such. Would love to read about some of those points since most of us only know very little, if nothing at all, regarding how this affects them. On the positive side, it provides a powerful backer to get them out and about the country. On the downside, from what I've heard, they take bigger advantage of the bands, ticket takes and limits their choice of specific venues they would love to play. Mind Cage should jump in here. ;)
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monopolies are bad no matter how you look at it and they should not allow it to happen.
so far, i've seen two petitions and neither have many signatures.
i'm surprised there isnt a facebook page against the merger. also surprised more people arent complaining about it
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Julian - do ever get tired of being so negative and accusatory? You bring me down.
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merger approved with conditions
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100125/ap_on_hi_te/us_live_nation_ticketmaster_merger
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merger approved with conditions
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100125/ap_on_hi_te/us_live_nation_ticketmaster_merger
Of course! Again, it's all part of the nue-Fascism.
Seth, thanks for trying. :-\
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What a joke those "conditions" are.
Get ready for more 360 deals. And with smaller artists.
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Ugggg! This is not going to be pretty. I cant wait to see the effects of this one, as Im already sacrificing going to shows due to costs. I can only hope smaller venues either continue to operate as is or at least avoid ticketmaster/livenation if they end up doing advance sales. Im beginning to like Cakeshop quite a bit as well as Mercury shows that dont sell tix in advance.
What a joke those "conditions" are.
Get ready for more 360 deals. And with smaller artists.
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Out of curiosity, what's the general feeling on the board about an auction based ticketing system for shows with reserved seating?
I personally would guess that's the model Live Nation/Ticketmaster is going to aim toward, to provide greater flexibility for less desirable seats and opportunities to maximize profits on premium seating. This would also effectively kill StubHub and other secondary ticketing marketplaces for assigned seats...
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Out of curiosity, what's the general feeling on the board about an auction based ticketing system for shows with reserved seating?
there has been talk of this for some time, and i believe it's inevitable for high-demand shows. i'm not opposed to it. if there is additional income to be captured, it should go to those who are involved with the show (ideally, the artists). i wonder how artists feel about this - just because you're able and willing to pay big bucks to sit/stand up front doesn't mean it's the kind of audience the band wants to play for and look at.
why limit auctions to reserved seats? as yesterday's radiohead show proved, you can auction off GA tickets as well. it's all about how much demand there is.
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I believe bands are going to utilize a web-based social network-like essay system whereby those who desire tickets will have 100 characters in which to explain why they deserve tickets and better seats than others. These will not actually be read by the band but will be processed via an algorithm that scores entries based on the occurrence of key words, phrases, and punctuation marks such as "OMG" "!!" and "your first EP on red vinyl." These will be cross-referenced with a credit check and tickets will be priced on a means-tested sliding scale.
Really, it's the only fair way to do it.
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^This would give DFA1979 all the best tickets. ;D
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and it is born.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100125/ap_on_hi_te/us_live_nation_ticketmaster_merger_6
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Walkies, you've been scooped.
Look above.
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Those defending DAR are either high on crack or simply looking at it from the vantage point of the few who have the choice seats (or are on the IMP payroll).. The "venue" largely has shitty sightlines, shitty acoustics and you can't even have a beer while watching a show (though they'[ll gladly sell it to you!).. Basically it blows.. It was never meant to be a music venue.. its a place to hear a speech by Al Gore. I've seen numerous shows there from Nina Simone to the Pixies to the Experience Hendrix to the Pet Shop Boys and yes if you are within twenty rows of the stage on the floor the sound can be ok (Pixies) but otherwise forget about it (Nina, PSB) .. Its embarassing that Seth - like Live Nation- continue to rent this venue. At least LN is looking to build a decent venue.
Of course we know why they rent it to put on shows...MONEY. NOT because they give a shit about my concert experience.
Doesn't mean one can't have a good time but MOST people at a DAR show will get a substandard product and to keep arguing otherwise is asinine.
I no longer go see shows at Dar cause it blows and FYI I am not the only one.
The TM-LN merger getting approved is about as surprising as the fact the sun is currently shining somewhere. And you know whats funny: the same reasons why Seth rents Dar are why the merger got approved, money.
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LN put on many shows at DAR, too. Just sayin'...
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I wonder what the world's smallest violin sounds like in DAR....
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Well auctioned based seating would truly ensure about the only arena band I see is Pearl Jam and I re-upped for another year in the fanclub...
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Those defending DAR are either high on crack or simply looking at it from the vantage point of the few who have the choice seats (or are on the IMP payroll).. The "venue" largely has shitty sightlines, shitty acoustics and you can't even have a beer while watching a show (though they'[ll gladly sell it to you!).. Basically it blows.. It was never meant to be a music venue.. its a place to hear a speech by Al Gore. I've seen numerous shows there from Nina Simone to the Pixies to the Experience Hendrix to the Pet Shop Boys and yes if you are within twenty rows of the stage on the floor the sound can be ok (Pixies) but otherwise forget about it (Nina, PSB) .. Its embarassing that Seth - like Live Nation- continue to rent this venue. At least LN is looking to build a decent venue.
Of course we know why they rent it to put on shows...MONEY. NOT because they give a shit about my concert experience.
Doesn't mean one can't have a good time but MOST people at a DAR show will get a substandard product and to keep arguing otherwise is asinine.
I no longer go see shows at Dar cause it blows and FYI I am not the only one.
The TM-LN merger getting approved is about as surprising as the fact the sun is currently shining somewhere. And you know whats funny: the same reasons why Seth rents Dar are why the merger got approved, money.
Most of us will agree it's really hard to miss out on seeing Owl City on this tour, but seriously enough is enough
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(http://download.lardlad.com/framegrabs/3F21/171.jpg)
"And to think, Smithers, you laughed when I bought Ticketmaster. Nobody's going to pay a 100% 'service charge.'"
"It's a policy that ensures a healthy mix of the rich and the ignorant, sir."
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"They're not sayin' boooo, they're saying booooouuuurrrrnsss." :)
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Eagles Pinch Scalpers With Live Nation Price Hikes on Seats (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aYvY0SPQbd50#)
By Adam Satariano
Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) -- The Eagles were the first band to charge $100 for a concert ticket 16 years ago. Now the group with the all-time best-selling album is raising prices on prime seats, making the cheap ones cheaper and squeezing scalpers.
The band?s April 27 show in Sacramento, California, uses Live Nation Entertainment Inc.?s ?dynamic? ticketing service that mimics airlines? approach -- a first for a major group. By setting 10 prices based on anticipated demand, instead of the usual two to four, the Eagles are selling seats closer to what they fetch on resale sites such as EBay Inc.?s StubHub.
The aim is to make tickets affordable for more fans and to fill seats, according to Marc Robbins, who helped design the system for the Eagles? manager, Live Nation?s Front Line. The result lifts food and merchandise sales while slicing into the markup of scalpers who profit from tickets initially priced too low in the $4.4 billion worldwide concert market.
?The idea is to shift the economic value from the brokers, who get the difference between the face value and the resale value, to the primary market where it can go to the artists, promoters and venue operators,? said Brett Harriss, an analyst with Gabelli & Co. in Rye, New York, which owns the shares.
Concerts are increasingly important for the music industry. Worldwide ticket sales more than doubled in 2009 from $1.7 billion in 2000, while compact disc sales fell 65 percent, according to Billboard magazine. The average ticket price rose 54 percent to $62.57 from 2000 to 2009, according to Pollstar, which tracks the concert business.
More Clout
The Eagles test highlights ticketing changes made possible by Live Nation?s merger last month with Ticketmaster Entertainment, a deal opposed by consumer groups. As the world?s largest concert promoter, venue operator, ticket seller and manager of artists, the Beverly Hills, California-based company has more leverage to make changes that drive revenue and profit.
Dynamic pricing has been tried by professional baseball teams including the San Francisco Giants. It uses technology to continually adjust ticket prices for some seats based on demand.
At the 17,000-seat Arco Arena, the Eagles are testing a limited version that set prices in advance. Aisle seats are worth more than those in the middle of a row, for example. In some systems, changes can be made in real time.
The band and show organizers are keeping total ticket revenue comparable to other stops on the tour, said Robbins. Eagles tickets priced as high as $250 are being used to reduce others to as little as $32, the lowest for the band since 1980.
Industry?s ?Gain?
Tickets went on sale Feb. 8 and more than half sold for less than $52, the lowest price on other stops, according to Robbins. He declined to say how many seats were involved in the public sale and said the system needs additional testing.
The $32 seats in Sacramento use a paperless system that limits ticket transfers and further shuts out resellers.
?We?re pricing the tickets, not just at what the market will bear, but according to people?s budgets,? Robbins said. Demand will determine the revenue at future concerts using dynamic pricing, according to Robbins.
Getting more people in the door addresses a longstanding problem in the live concert business: empty seats. Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino told Congress last year 40 percent of seats go unsold. Ancillary sales average $12 to $14 per concertgoer, Rapino said then. More ticket sales also add to commissions.
?If you can put somebody in there for $20 where it would have been empty, it?s a gain for the industry,? said Harriss.
?Maximum? Prices
As with other shows, some seats are separately sold to fans paying as much as $995 for a VIP package that includes a ticket in the first four rows, a pre-show party and other perks, according to Live Nation?s I Love All Access, which organizes the packages.
The band and concert organizers also experimented by auctioning 50 seats, with $360 the highest winning bid, according to Robbins.
?The ultimate goal is to price the tickets at the maximum amount of what the consumers will pay,? said Don Vaccaro, chief executive officer of TicketNetwork, a Vernon, Connecticut-based resale Web site with 240 employees and sales above $120 million.
Forty percent of concert tickets sell for less than face value on resale sites, Vaccaro said.
Glenn Lehrman, a spokesman for San Francisco-based StubHub, said ticket sales are ?extremely volatile? and the secondary market is necessary to capture fluctuations after the original sale. On the company?s Web site, two tickets for the Sacramento show are being sold for $1,500 each.
Stubhub provides a Web-based platform, collecting fees from transactions, and doesn?t own the tickets. A 2008 study by Forrester Research Inc. said the U.S. resale market will reach $4.5 billion by 2012.
First to $100
Live Nation fell 7 cents to $12.54 yesterday in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares gained 48 percent in 2009. This month, Live Nation announced an agreement to sell tickets in 500 Wal-Mart Stores Inc. outlets.
In 1994, the Eagles became the first rock band to charge more than $100 for a concert ticket, according to Gary Bongiovanni, editor-in-chief of Pollstar. ?Their Greatest Hits (1971-1975)? has sold more than 29 million copies and is tied with Michael Jackson?s ?Thriller? as all-time best-seller, according to the Recording Industry Association of America.
Eagles shows over the past decade have averaged $1.8 million in ticket revenue, according to Pollstar. The 14-date tour runs from April 16 to May 18.
Live Nation also owns TicketsNow, a resale Web site used by brokers. The company last week settled a complaint brought by U.S. regulators, agreeing to pay refunds to Ticketmaster customers who sought seats to Bruce Springsteen shows and were routed to the TicketsNow site, where prices were higher.
The Eagles event may presage future changes. Technical advances allow prices for live entertainment to be adjusted in real-time, said Barry Kahn, CEO of Qcue Inc., an Austin, Texas- based ticketing company that works with baseball?s Giants.
?Tickets in the concert industry have been very poorly priced, and there is no better evidence than seeing what tickets get sold for on the secondary market,? said Kahn.
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Eagles Pinch Scalpers With Live Nation Price Hikes on Seats (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aYvY0SPQbd50#)
?Tickets in the concert industry have been very poorly priced, and there is no better evidence than seeing what tickets get sold for on the secondary market,? said Kahn.
This is inarguable. Why should the scalper/ticket reseller take home this difference and not the artist/promoter/venue?
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Yep. This explains why my Caps season tickets are going from $12 a game to $29. I won't be renewing, but I understand from the Caps perspective.
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Eagles Pinch Scalpers With Live Nation Price Hikes on Seats (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aYvY0SPQbd50#)
The Eagles test highlights ticketing changes made possible by Live Nation?s merger last month with Ticketmaster Entertainment, a deal opposed by consumer groups. As the world?s largest concert promoter, venue operator, ticket seller and manager of artists, the Beverly Hills, California-based company has more leverage to make changes that drive revenue and profit.
Dynamic pricing has been tried by professional baseball teams including the San Francisco Giants. It uses technology to continually adjust ticket prices for some seats based on demand.
Were the Giants not using Ticketmaster during their "dynamic pricing" experiment? How was this accomplished before the merger?
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The Eagles of course are managed by Irving Azoff, the architect of the Live Nation/Ticketmaster merger. This story about the 'industry' gains and dynamic possibilities of the merger is clearly a political orchestratration. F*ck the Eagles and f*ck Irving Azoff.
'I hate the f*cking Eagles, man'
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Did you see Billy Corgan's pathetic letter to the DoJ (I think that's who it was to) trying to plead Azoff's case? "This is for the consumers," "saviors of the industry," blah blah blah.
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Eagles Pinch Scalpers With Live Nation Price Hikes on Seats (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aYvY0SPQbd50#)
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as little as $32, the lowest for the band since 1980.
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Well, that's a little misleading. Eagles tickets were about $15 in 1980. The only reason $32 is the lowest since then is because they broke up for 15 years and started charging $100 when they returned. There was no time when their tickets cost approximately $32.
However - I'd pay $32 to see them again. Probably not much more than that though.