LiveNation/Ticketmaster merger (petition to block)

[azaghal1981]

What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.

[hutch]

Yeah cause Seth hasn't been pushing up prices.

Its not just LN pushing up prices.. its the competition between LN and IMP..its the artists who don't sell records anymore and need to make their money on concerts...

Last time I checked both IMP and LN book concerts at the substandard DAR... both screw over patrons on ticket charges..both suck as much out of you on beer prices...

In fact, IMP arguably charges more for beer than LN.

But I mean what is really the argument here? That because LN merges with TM they will limit artists from playing the 930? How exactly?

And how would LN drive out IMP??? Right now IMP seems to me to be doing far better... LN in this area is limited to the Warner (rare concert here and there/high costs due to unions), the ocasional rental at DAR or Patriot and the shitshow at Nissan now Jiffy Lube..

IMP has it pretty good with the 930, Merriweather and their rentals at DAR plus bookings at Ramshead Live etc...I'd say IMP is actually handily taking it to LN and I don't see that changing because LN owns a ticket service provider or what have you...

If IMP really wants to defeat LN or protect his position he should build a bigger venue..a state of the art 930 style place but for 2500-3000.. and stop worrying so much about LN. He could then forget about DAR/preempt the LN Fillmore in Silver Spring and book bands like Wilco guaranteening them more money per performance.. They would not have to play the Strathmore....

[Ardamus]

from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?

none?  seriously?  how about having good artists perform at the club?  ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return?  providing a safe environment?  these are some of my best interests...

None of those things have anything to do with his comments on the LN/TM merger, and any claim otherwise is simply fearmongering.

you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club?  one might answer "not any more than LN already does", but i don't buy that.  they're consolidating to take over the industry and squeeze as much as they can out of it.  they'll be in that much better position to do so after the merger.

thats part of my whole point with posting this article/petition. if you honestly think prices will stay the same with the merger going thru, you've had one too many drinks and do not understand basic supply and demand in economics when it comes to the business world. ever been thru a merger at a company? they lay-off/rearrange staff, make budget cuts, and try to hit their new financial goals within the fiscal with what the two merging companies have planned. which means, prices that people are used to paying as concert goers in this instance will get higher.

if they don't drive up prices, its a damn miracle......

just something to think on......

[sweetcell]

If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript.  concert venues are not undifferentiated products.  

you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930?  i definitely have a preference.  

[hutch]

If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript.  concert venues are not undifferentiated products.  

you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930?  i definitely have a preference.  

Thats right and DAR BLOWS and IMP has no problem booking shows there.. Whats your point?

Honestly the IMP groupies need to get real.

[James Ford]

If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript.  concert venues are not undifferentiated products.  

you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930?  i definitely have a preference.  

Well RNR Hotel IS a much smaller venue, so given the choice, I'd rather see a band play there.

[Jaguar]

James Ford is a veg?  Is that the secret to his beauty?

And you thought that he was just a tool. 

Rhett, I do agree with you that we need to keep the apples in one basket and the oranges in another as one can't compare one venue to another when their size capacity is much different. Stick to similiars and then we've got fair ground to argue.

[Jaguar]

you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club? 

I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out?because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me?and there was no one left to speak out.

Odd that you posted this; and very accurate and appropriate. Earlier I almost posted this quote by Mohandas Gandhi, as it's been very important and true for me lately:

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

[sweetcell]

Thats right and DAR BLOWS and IMP has no problem booking shows there.. Whats your point?

DAR doesn't suck.  you might believe so, i and many others don't.  i've been to plenty of shows that sounded great there.  i'd like arcade fire to play in my living room too, but that ain't gonna happen.  so what was your point?

Well RNR Hotel IS a much smaller venue, so given the choice, I'd rather see a band play there.

seeing a band in a smaller venue is great, but not the RnR - it's cramped, sight lines are horrible, gets way to hot, and the PA sounds like shit.   i'd rather have better sound in a nicer club, at the expense of having to share the space with more people. 

also, i wonder how much our tastes in bands explain this difference: you generally prefer smaller acts that actually play the RnR.  when those bands "move up" to the 930, you've typically lost interest, prefer their earlier work, etc.

[Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface]

What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.

I think this because I'm a firm believer in the Gospel Doctorine of Hurwitz Economy. When we were talking about a Silver Spring venue, all we heard from Seth was that competition is bad! Why, if you have only one venue wanting Band X to come play, Band X pretty much has to take their offer or leave it, but if you have two, well, then you have a bidding war, and the higher cost eventually paid to the band gets passed along in ticket prices.

Seems only reasonable that if the Hurwitz DC monopoly has kept prices relatively low (because, hey, Seth doesn't price gouge, right?), just imagine the same principle applied nationally. Bands have to take it or leave it when it comes to initial offers to play because there's nowhere else for them to go. Cost to venue = low, ergo, prices past along to consumers don't have to respond to competition. Bad for bands, good for me as a consumer.

[Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface]

That is where the other pieces of meat come into play. Many of us don't want the Grade B cuts when we can have Grade A. Besides, historically, once a monopoly; or duopoly in some cases; gets in and takes over, that's when they then ratchet up the prices even further and offer less to the paying public while pushing all the locals out of the game plan.

I'm going to ignore the fact that you seem unable to understand that your OPINION that the 930 Club is fundamentally better then every "corporate" venue out there is a small, minority opinion not shared by the majority of consumers, first of all.

For the sake of argument, let's say you're right on that. The 9:30 Club and the experience with attending it is better then attending a similar LiveNation owned venue. It is Grade A meat, as opposed to Grade B. Do you want filet mignon instead of Taco Bell ground beef? OK, that's your prerogative. Are you willing to pay slightly more to have it? Again, super. If this legislation passes, it is not as though the police are going to come the next day and put yellow tape over the 930 Club's doors. They will still be open, and if you want to go, great! And if average ticket costs at 930 club are, I dunno, $30, and at a LiveNation venue, $25, then you and everyone else will have the absolute right to pay the $5 more to see a show there. And if enough people want filet mignon, then both can co-exist. And if too many are willing to settle for Taco Bell ground beef, then that's the unseen hand of free market economy at work. But fighting to not letting people have options and make their own choice just because you fear your choice will be so massively unpopular that it won't remain financially viable is just selfish.

[Ardamus]

seeing a band in a smaller venue is great, but not the RnR - it's cramped, sight lines are horrible, gets way to hot, and the PA sounds like shit.   i'd rather have better sound in a nicer club, at the expense of having to share the space with more people. 

also, i wonder how much our tastes in bands explain this difference: you generally prefer smaller acts that actually play the RnR.  when those bands "move up" to the 930, you've typically lost interest, prefer their earlier work, etc.

I've had the complete opposite experience at RnR. Except for the "gets way too hot" comment. That I have experienced. But the sound, IMO, has been pretty on point.

And by smaller acts playing at RnR, I don't think there's as many as you say there are. From what I've seen, much more smaller acts played at places more like The Red & Black, Velvet Lounge, Asylum, and DC9. Occasionally, that back space at The Black Cat, too. I get your point about when they "move up" though......

[Driveway]

I bought some tickets through ticketmaster the other day.  The service fee was actually lower than ticketfly/930 Club.  I just post this because I know Julian would want to know.

[azaghal1981]

The sound at RNRH reminds me of a poorly ripped mp3. Exact same tinniness that makes me want to turn a bad mp3 off.

[kosmo vinyl]

What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.

I think this because I'm a firm believer in the Gospel Doctorine of Hurwitz Economy. When we were talking about a Silver Spring venue, all we heard from Seth was that competition is bad! Why, if you have only one venue wanting Band X to come play, Band X pretty much has to take their offer or leave it, but if you have two, well, then you have a bidding war, and the higher cost eventually paid to the band gets passed along in ticket prices.

Seems only reasonable that if the Hurwitz DC monopoly has kept prices relatively low (because, hey, Seth doesn't price gouge, right?), just imagine the same principle applied nationally. Bands have to take it or leave it when it comes to initial offers to play because there's nowhere else for them to go. Cost to venue = low, ergo, prices past along to consumers don't have to respond to competition. Bad for bands, good for me as a consumer.

As usual you leave out key points in the timeline.

Originally the SS Venue was intended to be a cabaret style with seating and lower capacity, which the owners of Birchmere (aka local DC competition) were in negotiations  with the County for several years over.   

Those talks sudden broke down and within months the county reached a deal with Live Nation, with out offering IMP the opportunity to even submit a counter proposal.  When the county executive claims to know nothing about one of the largest independent promoters who happens to located in his own back yard and instead turned immediately to LiveNation, one begins to wonder. 

It's not the just the threat of competition that get people's attention, but when it's done with essentially what amounts to corporate welfare it's should come under fire.

So if LiveNation is this huge powerhouse, why didn't they build their own venue prior to the SS deal?