930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: hutch on April 24, 2014, 05:30:19 pm
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there you go streamers! dig it!
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2014/04/23/streamingshutdown
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This is a complete farce. Streaming and illegally downloading music doesn't hurt bands. And the fact that I might consider buying a T-shirt down the road does way more for the artist than a purchased CD ever could.
/CompletelyIdioticHipsterDenizenOf930StandardResponse
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This is a complete farce. Streaming and illegally downloading music doesn't hurt bands. And the fact that I might consider buying a T-shirt down the road does way more for the artist than a purchased CD ever could.
/CompletelyIdioticHipsterDenizenOf930StandardResponse
LOL really, stealing does not hurt the person you are stealing from? That is the best you can come up with? So I can come over and steal you car as long as I think about maybe giving you a ride every once in a while right? Now I really wish there was a block user option on these forums.
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ESL was one of the few local labels releasing stuff by local acts...
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This is a complete farce. Streaming and illegally downloading music doesn't hurt bands. And the fact that I might consider buying a T-shirt down the road does way more for the artist than a purchased CD ever could.
/CompletelyIdioticHipsterDenizenOf930StandardResponse
LOL really, stealing does not hurt the person you are stealing from? That is the best you can come up with? So I can come over and steal you car as long as I think about maybe giving you a ride every once in a while right? Now I really wish there was a block user option on these forums.
I don't think you understood I was mocking the majority opinion of this board who believes people downloading bands for free is BENEFICIAL to the bands, despite the fact it's an intellectually bankrupt position to take.
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julian . . . i want to lick you
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This is a complete farce. Streaming and illegally downloading music doesn't hurt bands. And the fact that I might consider buying a T-shirt down the road does way more for the artist than a purchased CD ever could.
/CompletelyIdioticHipsterDenizenOf930StandardResponse
LOL really, stealing does not hurt the person you are stealing from? That is the best you can come up with? So I can come over and steal you car as long as I think about maybe giving you a ride every once in a while right? Now I really wish there was a block user option on these forums.
I don't think you understood I was mocking the majority opinion of this board who believes people downloading bands for free is BENEFICIAL to the bands, despite the fact it's an intellectually bankrupt position to take.
well to be fair the hipsters who believe in some model where artists give their music away for free but somehow make wonderful livings have upgraded their model from downloading to streaming.... now its "let me stream your stuff for free", the streaming service will make buckets of money through an IPO or something and the artist gets 77 cents in the mail quaterly...
i don't mind if people say "hey i'm an asshole.. i screw over the musicians..i don't buy their music.. just stream /download whatever for free..fuck you"...its the ones who think and act as if they are actually a part of some newly invented "model" that benefits the artists that tick me off...the ones who spend their time putting down david lowery or something because you know he actually wants to benefit from the music he makes..
its very convenient to think you're helping a musician when you take what he produces for free and rationalize it away with "oh hey the money is in touring now! maybe i'll catch their show the next time" or "hey i used to spend so much on music so i'm good going forward" or "i don't want to know whats going on just give me the free music"..
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What is this majority you speak of? I get my music legally from emusic, bandcamp, Amazon and directly from artists/labels. I've even on occasion bought physical product a second time from an artist at a show if I had already legally downloaded.
And on the local music front, ESL only released TC, TC side projects, Thunderball and The Funk Ark. Not really a local label per say. (Sorry to easy of a shot)
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lot of unnecessary commas in that article. made me think it was written by walk on by.
one gripe i have with the article: it's not the fact that streaming services now exist... it's that they exist, and no one is streaming ESL artists. you can't blame streaming services for a low payout if no one is streaming your music in the first place.
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well to be fair the hipsters who believe in some model where artists give their music away for free but somehow make wonderful livings have upgraded their model from downloading to streaming.... now its "let me stream your stuff for free", the streaming service will make buckets of money through an IPO or something and the artist gets 77 cents in the mail quaterly...
i don't mind if people say "hey i'm an asshole.. i screw over the musicians..i don't buy their music.. just stream /download whatever for free..fuck you"...its the ones who think and act as if they are actually a part of some newly invented "model" that benefits the artists that tick me off...the ones who spend their time putting down david lowery or something because you know he actually wants to benefit from the music he makes..
its very convenient to think you're helping a musician when you take what he produces for free and rationalize it away with "oh hey the money is in touring now! maybe i'll catch their show the next time" or "hey i used to spend so much on music so i'm good going forward" or "i don't want to know whats going on just give me the free music"..
say what you will about these 'hipster' types, but at least they've thought about it. i think the bigger problem is the masses of people who don't invest a single bit of effort in thinking about what they are listening to, the effort and investment it requires to make music, and how they (the consumer!) fit into the whole picture. instead, they just download their spotify app, pay $10 a month, and listen to their favorite buzz band on their iphone and skull candy headphones. for every 1 hipster douche rationalizing his "buy some merch, support the band!" method, there's probably hundreds of people who fly under the radar as casual listeners, enjoying the convenience and never thinking about it for a second.
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say what you will about these 'hipster' types, but at least they've thought about it. i think the bigger problem is the masses of people who don't invest a single bit of effort in thinking about what they are listening to, the effort and investment it requires to make music, and how they (the consumer!) fit into the whole picture. instead, they just download their spotify app, pay $10 a month, and listen to their favorite buzz band on their iphone and skull candy headphones. for every 1 hipster douche rationalizing his "buy some merch, support the band!" method, there's probably hundreds of people who fly under the radar as casual listeners, enjoying the convenience and never thinking about it for a second.
that's a good point...although I think the hipsters have thought about it and determined they don't give a fuck.... is that better than somebody that just doesn't have a clue?.... I almost prefer ignorance
i don't know..its a tough call..
some will defensively chime in....i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool... fuck that.. you like dean wareham... buy his fuckin album....don't stream it and be like "i have to listen to it for free to know if its worth it"... so many of my favorite acts are strugglin' hard to pay the most basic bills with this new model.. and the music ends up sounding like shit because the budget ends up being so low....
so ESL didn't put out that much local music.. I have no idea how much.. but they were a local label...they'd put out like 200 releases ...not sure how much...they had an identity... i happen to think thievery has coasted for a long time and dont get me started but this is the MODEL folk..this is how it DOESN"T WORK.. .when people don't fucking pay for music the music don't get made or what gets made sounds like shit and is shit....its hard to imagine David Bowie in the 1970s under this model being able to produce much of anythhing.... I can just imagine himm going to Carlos Alomar or Belew "eh, hey dude I need you to work for free for me"...
sorry this is kind of rambly...
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lot of unnecessary commas in that article. made me think it was written by walk on by.
one gripe i have with the article: it's not the fact that streaming services now exist... it's that they exist, and no one is streaming ESL artists. you can't blame streaming services for a low payout if no one is streaming your music in the first place.
is this really true? i mean there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that unless you are a heavy hitter you really aren't going to make much money with streaming and I find it hard to believe that it doesn't act as a disincentive to purchase...
are all the artists posting their ridiculously low "royalty" statements or whatever you call them from streaming making it up?
you can argue record labels sucked but for many record labels they had an identity and they were run by people who somewhat knew and cared about music..even recent guys.. a guy like cosloy you are going to tell me he knew nothing or cared nothing about music? a lot of the a&r guys were shit but a lot were not..at least they listened to music... the guys who own the streaming services are businessmen who know nothing about music.... you're going to tell me ahmet ertegun screwed over some musicians? sure.. but ahmet understood and lived and breathed music.. and sure he screwed over stax-volt but you know what ahmet when he was a kid was running around SE DC trying to buy 78s cause that was his passion..and when he died many of the musicians who had been on atlantic got together and threw him a tribute concert... even led zep showed up so...
i'm sorry... the old record labels weren't that great..often they took advantage of artists but you know what they also actually you know listened to the music, promoted the music, tried to sell the music, tried to hook up with the artists- sometimes- with the right studio and producer... they were a part of the music business... spotifiy and all these other outfits are not a part of the music business they are a part of the internet business.... do you really want your music controlled by people who don't know anything about music? who don't chip in a penny to its making...is spotify going to pay for the next phil ramone to produce a record..who the fuck is going to pay for it? you tell me the kid will make it on his computer and it will sound great? who's going to pay for the best ears in the business, robert ludwig, to master their music? you don't think robert ludwig made a difference to how great those classic records sounded???? people like that are still around.. guys like steve hoffman too..... they are reduced to working on reissues of old classics when they should be working on the new stuff
there were plenty of great labels and they didn't always screw the artist no matter what they tell you... alfred lion at blue note took care of his peeps..... jak holzman at elektra knew his music and i could go on all day.....
so the "record labels are just evil" cause steve albini wrote about it....well its nice but its a bit simpllistic... and i don't see how having non-music people involved in the music business is going to help much...
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This is a complete farce. Streaming and illegally downloading music doesn't hurt bands. And the fact that I might consider buying a T-shirt down the road does way more for the artist than a purchased CD ever could.
/CompletelyIdioticHipsterDenizenOf930StandardResponse
I didn't.
LOL really, stealing does not hurt the person you are stealing from? That is the best you can come up with? So I can come over and steal you car as long as I think about maybe giving you a ride every once in a while right? Now I really wish there was a block user option on these forums.
I don't think you understood I was mocking the majority opinion of this board who believes people downloading bands for free is BENEFICIAL to the bands, despite the fact it's an intellectually bankrupt position to take.
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Maybe their label is closing because they signed shitty bands. You don't have to allow your releases on streaming services. No one buys cd's anymore. It is either vinyl or digital.
Amanda Palmer does well with her model. I don't buy any of these failures people want to blame on others. Sign good bands and market them. If you think you can sign a shitty band and not promote them and make money you won't.
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lot of unnecessary commas in that article. made me think it was written by walk on by.
one gripe i have with the article: it's not the fact that streaming services now exist... it's that they exist, and no one is streaming ESL artists. you can't blame streaming services for a low payout if no one is streaming your music in the first place.
is this really true? i mean there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that unless you are a heavy hitter you really aren't going to make much money with streaming and I find it hard to believe that it doesn't act as a disincentive to purchase...
are all the artists posting their ridiculously low "royalty" statements or whatever you call them from streaming making it up?
you can argue record labels sucked but for many record labels they had an identity and they were run by people who somewhat knew and cared about music..even recent guys.. a guy like cosloy you are going to tell me he knew nothing or cared nothing about music? a lot of the a&r guys were shit but a lot were not..at least they listened to music... the guys who own the streaming services are businessmen who know nothing about music.... you're going to tell me ahmet ertegun screwed over some musicians? sure.. but ahmet understood and lived and breathed music.. and sure he screwed over stax-volt but you know what ahmet when he was a kid was running around SE DC trying to buy 78s cause that was his passion..and when he died many of the musicians who had been on atlantic got together and threw him a tribute concert... even led zep showed up so...
i'm sorry... the old record labels weren't that great..often they took advantage of artists but you know what they also actually you know listened to the music, promoted the music, tried to sell the music, tried to hook up with the artists- sometimes- with the right studio and producer... they were a part of the music business... spotifiy and all these other outfits are not a part of the music business they are a part of the internet business.... do you really want your music controlled by people who don't know anything about music? who don't chip in a penny to its making...is spotify going to pay for the next phil ramone to produce a record..who the fuck is going to pay for it? you tell me the kid will make it on his computer and it will sound great? who's going to pay for the best ears in the business, robert ludwig, to master their music? you don't think robert ludwig made a difference to how great those classic records sounded???? people like that are still around.. guys like steve hoffman too..... they are reduced to working on reissues of old classics when they should be working on the new stuff
there were plenty of great labels and they didn't always screw the artist no matter what they tell you... alfred lion at blue note took care of his peeps..... jak holzman at elektra knew his music and i could go on all day.....
so the "record labels are just evil" cause steve albini wrote about it....well its nice but its a bit simpllistic... and i don't see how having non-music people involved in the music business is going to help much...
I was talking to members of Romeo void when they were in their prime and they said they didn't get a dime from their label. They actually owed money to the label for recording costs and their label didn't support them. Recording artist were ripped off in the past. They can actually make money off their recordings now by doing kick starter.
Small labels usually fail... Go back to the 80's in DC. Fountain of youth had put out some great albums but they didn't make it.
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I love spotify
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I love spotify
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I use Rhapsody. Great service for 9.99 a month. Most every album I have ever tried to listen to is there.
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(http://hugelolcdn.com/i/28441.gif)
i enjoy using streaming services like spotify, pandora, etc. life changes, business models change, deal with it
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(http://hugelolcdn.com/i/28441.gif)
i enjoy using streaming services like spotify, pandora, etc. life changes, business models change, deal with it
Deal with what? You streaming? Why should I care?
Many people now drive and use their smartphones while they drive endangering everyone around them? Should I do that too? Or should I stand like a zombie at metro platform punching into my smartphone like most people? I need to do that because times change? Umm....sorry.. .no.
I don't have to deal with that but you do.
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Who are all of these supposed hipsters? What makes one a hipster? Also can you list out the names of all of these supposed pirates so they can be publicly shamed?
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(http://hugelolcdn.com/i/28441.gif)
i enjoy using streaming services like spotify, pandora, etc. life changes, business models change, deal with it
Deal with what? You streaming? Why should I care?
Many people now drive and use their smartphones while they drive endangering everyone around them? Should I do that too? Or should I stand like a zombie at metro platform punching into my smartphone like most people? I need to do that because times change? Umm....sorry.. .no.
I don't have to deal with that but you do.
It is against the law to drive and use a hand held cellphone. I don't know why you are comparing that to something that is legal and supported by the record labels. Wait because you don't use streaming it is wrong? It is nice to be at work and be able to basically listen to any album in the world instantly.
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(http://hugelolcdn.com/i/28441.gif)
i enjoy using streaming services like spotify, pandora, etc. life changes, business models change, deal with it
Deal with what? You streaming? Why should I care?
Many people now drive and use their smartphones while they drive endangering everyone around them? Should I do that too? Or should I stand like a zombie at metro platform punching into my smartphone like most people? I need to do that because times change? Umm....sorry.. .no.
I don't have to deal with that but you do.
bwah!
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i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
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i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
Also, when I am at work I can't have thousand dollar speakers blaring music. Hutch what is your set-up at work?
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People. Just understand. Hutch just loves music more than you and is more deserving of its pleasures.
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If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
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If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
(http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/YoX52GkTUD8/mqdefault.jpg)
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I'm sorry, I was sounding a bit like my wife there for a minute.
How would work be bearable for anyone without music and message boards?
If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
(http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/YoX52GkTUD8/mqdefault.jpg)
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i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
definitely I retract any assumption about people on this board if it was made! certainly i was not making it about everyone...i remember being at sidehatch's house though, a guy who used to have a stereo system I used to rock out to nicely, and him and his wife were playing me some new "hot" song out of their crappy laptop speaker (the laptop looked nice i will admit)....
just a general societal trend that is visible to anyone with a set of eyes....
just like I saw a lady driving and internetting on her smart phone 30 minutes ago..
its what people are doing.. and the fact people are doing things doesn't mean anything
I'm a salmon baby.
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People. Just understand. Hutch just loves music more than you and is more deserving of its pleasures.
that doesn't seem entirely fair chaz....
but it is noted that the fact that ESL, one of the few local record labels of any note, has closed down has been met with a general yawn.. who gives a shit....
really ESL and Dischord are all I can think of... .any others of any substance at all?
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I'm a salmon baby.
Those fish all die after fighting against all those rocks and currents.
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They might not be substantial to you, but I personally dig the music that a few local record labels release.
Friends Records
Fan Death Records
I Had an Accident Records
Accidental Guest Records
Ehse Records
(only covering Baltimore and Annapolis, I cant think of any DC ones right now...)
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People. Just understand. Hutch just loves music more than you and is more deserving of its pleasures.
that doesn't seem entirely fair chaz....
Probably not. But live and let live my man! Life is short!
I feel ya about the crappy sound part.
I used to have the sweetest system. But life got crazy, I sold it off piece by piece. One day i'll do it again. One day.
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This conversation again? Or should I say still?
The music industry had everybody on board with Napster and rather than embracing new technologies and delivery models, they fought it. The movie industry did the same thing initially, but decided to embrace alternative pay models sooner and are benefiting.
When are all other content producers going to realize the porn industry model? They continue to make money hand over fist by embracing new technologies and delivery models and being early adopters. How is it working for them an no one else despite being (semi) limited to an 18 and over restriction?
Because they're not assholes, adjust to their audience quickly and embrace new technologies. Hell they drive some of them!
It's time to stop blaming the consumers on this one and look long and hard at the resistance from the industry while the consumers needs and desires passed them by.
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They might not be substantial to you, but I personally dig the music that a few local record labels release.
Friends Records
Fan Death Records
I Had an Accident Records
Accidental Guest Records
Ehse Records
(only covering Baltimore and Annapolis, I cant think of any DC ones right now...)
I was thinking of Friends record as being the best local label. I have a bunch of their releases. Never heard of the label Hutch is going on and on about.
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I am with you on Friends... I have a ton of their cassettes and vinyl, and go to a lot of the Friends heavy bands shows in town... Plus Jimmy is the nicest dude in the Baltimore music scene.
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Also I guess Accidental Guest is a DC based label, since it is ran by one guy who lives in NW DC...
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If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
100 years from now no one is going to care what you did at work. I don't know about you but I prefer not being at work. When I am there I do prefer to make it somewhat bearable. Music helps.
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It's time to stop blaming the consumers on this one and look long and hard at the resistance from the industry while the consumers needs and desires passed them by.
Huh? Like what? Consumers are largely perfectly happy streaming music for free or at most paying 9.99 for accesss to a bazillion records..
WHat else can the music industry do? They've handed over almost their entire catalogs- with notable exceptions- to non-music businesses who don't give a rats butt about music ...
The artist is the one getting ripped off.. not the consumer....I don't see the consumers on this thread feeling jacked or clamoring for better sound or more free music... the message is "hey mac its the way it is.. get with the program"
As I wrote earlier in this thread- completely ignored I note- record companies and a&r men provided a music industry service...they specialized in music....spotify does not specialize in music...they specialize in music delivery... they are the equivalent of the guys who used to take the cds from the warehouse to the Tower Records and the Tower Records itself... music provision is not music creation.....the music industry service has been replaced by what people keep referring to as a "business model" without actually defining it which seems to consist of music should be free baby cause thats just the way it is..
I can't speak to the porn industry I'm afraid... ;D
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I'm with you there. Shouldn't you be headed out the door my now? I worked 9+ hours from home today. TV, music, and beer while on the clock and on the couch. Can't beat that.
If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
100 years from now no one is going to care what you did at work. I don't know about you but I prefer not being at work. When I am there I do prefer to make it somewhat bearable. Music helps.
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It's time to stop blaming the consumers on this one and look long and hard at the resistance from the industry while the consumers needs and desires passed them by.
Huh? Like what? Consumers are largely perfectly happy streaming music for free or at most paying 9.99 for accesss to a bazillion records..
WHat else can the music industry do? They've handed over almost their entire catalogs- with notable exceptions- to non-music businesses who don't give a rats butt about music ...
The artist is the one getting ripped off.. not the consumer....I don't see the consumers on this thread feeling jacked or clamoring for better sound or more free music... the message is "hey mac its the way it is.. get with the program"
As I wrote earlier in this thread- completely ignored I note- record companies and a&r men provided a music industry service...they specialized in music....spotify does not specialize in music...they specialize in music delivery... they are the equivalent of the guys who used to take the cds from the warehouse to the Tower Records and the Tower Records itself... music provision is not music creation.....the music industry service has been replaced by what people keep referring to as a "business model" without actually defining it which seems to consist of music should be free baby cause thats just the way it is..
I can't speak to the porn industry I'm afraid... ;D
The artist doesn't have to have a record label they don't have to allow their music to be streamed. The artists get money when their music is streamed. They don't get money when their music is downloaded from pirate bay. Streaming is long term revenue for bands. Most people buy albums when they are first released and listen to the album over their life time. The artist gets a very small portion of this revenue. And they only get it once.
I think you are anti technology. Streaming music is great. If the artist is not getting enough money they need to negotiate better deals. Celebration were on a major label and they weren't getting squat so they quit the game. Amanda Palmer quit her label as we'll and went on her own. You seem to think artists we're getting a ton of money from album sales in the past and that is only true from the huge bands and performers most got nothing.
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I'm with you there. Shouldn't you be headed out the door my now? I worked 9+ hours from home today. TV, music, and beer while on the clock and on the couch. Can't beat that.
If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
100 years from now no one is going to care what you did at work. I don't know about you but I prefer not being at work. When I am there I do prefer to make it somewhat bearable. Music helps.
I am not working now. I have to work later tonight so I am enjoying some relaxation time. Seems like you have a pretty swell job.
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I'm with you there. Shouldn't you be headed out the door my now? I worked 9+ hours from home today. TV, music, and beer while on the clock and on the couch. Can't beat that.
If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
100 years from now no one is going to care what you did at work. I don't know about you but I prefer not being at work. When I am there I do prefer to make it somewhat bearable. Music helps.
I am not working now. I have to work later tonight so I am enjoying some relaxation time. Seems like you have a pretty swell job.
not only that, you're paying his salary!
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I think you are anti technology.
anti- technology? of all the horrible insults I have had to endure this is the worse...
sir, have you no decency?
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Well I did sign in at 6:59am. So seems like it was quitting time.
Was only working from home due to medical reasons...
I'm with you there. Shouldn't you be headed out the door my now? I worked 9+ hours from home today. TV, music, and beer while on the clock and on the couch. Can't beat that.
If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
100 years from now no one is going to care what you did at work. I don't know about you but I prefer not being at work. When I am there I do prefer to make it somewhat bearable. Music helps.
I am not working now. I have to work later tonight so I am enjoying some relaxation time. Seems like you have a pretty swell job.
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I'm with you there. Shouldn't you be headed out the door my now? I worked 9+ hours from home today. TV, music, and beer while on the clock and on the couch. Can't beat that.
If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
100 years from now no one is going to care what you did at work. I don't know about you but I prefer not being at work. When I am there I do prefer to make it somewhat bearable. Music helps.
I am not working now. I have to work later tonight so I am enjoying some relaxation time. Seems like you have a pretty swell job.
not only that, you're paying his salary!
I only pay around 30k in federal taxes a year I am sure he makes more than that.
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Well I did sign in at 6:59am. So seems like it was quitting time.
Was only working from home due to medical reasons...
I'm with you there. Shouldn't you be headed out the door my now? I worked 9+ hours from home today. TV, music, and beer while on the clock and on the couch. Can't beat that.
If you had a job of any importance you probably wouldn't be listening to music at work. Or posting on music message boards.
i just can't deal with people who listen to music streamed on shitpie laptop speakers or their phones and think they're doing the world a favor and are cool...
How do you know what setups people have for music consumption? You are making assumptions on people's consumptions and presenting it as fact.
100 years from now no one is going to care what you did at work. I don't know about you but I prefer not being at work. When I am there I do prefer to make it somewhat bearable. Music helps.
I am not working now. I have to work later tonight so I am enjoying some relaxation time. Seems like you have a pretty swell job.
Beer is for the back pain I assume.
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Celebration were on a major label and they weren't getting squat so they quit the game.
Celebration dropping 4AD wasn't just about them not getting squat, as you put it. There were several factors, including that they were not willing to tour as much as the label wanted them to, and they wanted to spend time with their families. Here is a link (I will actually just quote the whole thing) to an article about them dropping their label. The article features a quote from the band at the bottom (which actually fits into this discussion nicely).
http://exclaim.ca/News/celebration_quit_4ad_release_music_on_their_own
By Brock Thiessen
Despite most bands doing damn near anything to get on 4AD, TV on the Radio affiliates Celebration are parting ways with the celebrated London imprint. Today, the Baltimore outfit announced via their website that they are going the sans-label route, saying they have felt a need for a "barrier-free exchange" and that "the traditional methods of releasing music have put too much distance between us."
From now on, all Celebration releases will be released through the band's website, the band say, with all their new music being posted as free digital downloads and, in the future, vinyl. Two new tracks have already been posted on the website ("I Will Not Fall" and "What's This Magical") and you can download those here either free of charge or by adding some funds to the band's new donation box.
Here's Celebration's statement in full on their newly found independence:
Greetings, Dear Ones,
We, as Celebration, have felt the continual growth of web culture's need for barrier-free exchange. We also feel that the traditional methods of releasing music have put too much distance between us. As we see it, the current music business model is crumbling. We believe their methods waste resources and time in a "print for market world" that no longer makes sense. The birth of the MP3 has dreamt the death of the CD format, and so all across the board, CD sales have dropped. What has given way is something so magical and evolutionary, music has grown, that we have only begun to understand the cultural impact of this sharing. So, past the piles of broken CD cases and badly scratched polycarbonate rainbow discs, there lies a fantastic world of freedom - freedom to share instantly with little or no impact on the environment, in a seemingly infinite, eternal and virtually cost free universe of the world wide web. This is our emancipation. Without the need for manufacturing CDs and the danse macabre of the promotional corporate machine, we can be free to release our music when and how we want - no waiting. We know nothing of the marketing world and don't care about the vampires any more.
Our plan and experiment is to post new songs monthly, as we create and record them. Under the creative commons attribution non-commercial share alike license, all of our new music will be free to download on our website for non-commercial use. When we have enough music for an album, we will release it on vinyl for those who want to have something to hold. As artists we can only stand for our music, our art, our creation. So here it is laid bare. Some may say we are fools. If we be fools, then let us be the Fool of the tarot. The Fool card of the tarot represents a leap of faith, a leap into the unknown, a trust in the adventure of chance. It is in this spirit that we are unvailing a multidimensional, interactive musical Tarot deck, on our new website. We are constructing an experimental place to experience and share our musical vision with you. We strongly encourage you to blog, podcast, email and share links to our music and our site with others. We will post stems in the near future for remixing. If we like your remix, we will post it on our site. This experiment is funded solely by us and those of you who choose to be a part of making the music available. We've added a donation box to the site in hopes that you, our audience, can help support the artist's right to autonomy. Thank you!
So with a leap of faith and fortune, we turn the fate of our future to you. We look forward to the time and moment when we share our music with you - it is our greatest joy.
Love,
Celebration
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They probably just quit to focus on opening more stuffy douchemagnet bars that charge $15 for a cocktail.
The last thing of interest they released as far as I know is that Federico Aubele album.
Currently active DC area labels of note:
Sister Polygon
VHF (Fairfax)
Fire Records just opened a US division based out of DC.
Cricket Cemetery
Ian Svenonius just started a label on which he is releasing the new Chain and the Gang LP. Not sure if that's a one-off or not.
Cuneiform (going strong for 30-ish years)
Future Times
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these labels being mentioned are a joke.. have they sold more than 100 copies of any one item?
Local labels of note I can remember are
Teenbeat
Dischord
ESL
in the early 80s there were some go go labels that also made a dent
I want to say JAMTU which put out the Trouble Funk singles and TTED which put out the Chuck Brown stuff.. those 12"s sold
that's about it...
doesn't mean there isn't some home shop label somebody runs out of their basement as a side project that puts out great music... and that the "owner" isn't a nice guy...
DIY is great . ..all for it..
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You are a joke.
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Actually The Funk Ark and Ocote Soul Sounds records were really good. The were a one point a leading downtempo label. Think I have about 2O of their releases with Ursula 1000, Chris Joss, the above to funk albums and their early compilations.
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Don't forget Windian records.
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I think that died with its head, sadly.
Every one of those labels (except for maybe Cricket Cemetery) that I mentioned above has gotten some sort of national/international attention. Just because you (Hutch) haven't heard of them, it doesn't mean they're nobodies.
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I looked at the artists on Esl and I never heard of any of them. I have seen almost every band on friends records. Times are changing and no one needs anyone to make CDs for them. Does this esl label even do vinyl releases? Hutch you sort of are not the most up to date person on the local scene. The artists that are bigger don't stay on the local labels. Wye Oak is on Merge, Beach House on sub pop, future islands on 4ad, animal collective on domino.
You can't just sit on your ass and think your label is going to succeed. The smaller local labels fill a gap and they are useful for the artists and their fans. I doubt anyone thinks they are going to make a living off of them. If thieverary corporation was in it for the money they need to sign better artists and promote them. Once a band signs to a label like sub pop they get a ton of exposure, reviews in the press, articles in music magazines, they get better reviews, tv appearances.
Running a profitable label is not a part time vanity thing. I think the streaming sites lose money. What is your next attack? Fm radio and how they screw the artists.
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You're never heard of Federico Aubele? Really? Where have you been?
Maybe the whole pseudo-world chill music scene isn't your thing. Maybe you're too caught up in pseudo-arty crap like the Decemberists.
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You're never heard of Federico Aubele? Really? Where have you been?
Maybe the whole pseudo-world chill music scene isn't your thing. Maybe you're too caught up in pseudo-arty crap like the Decemberists.
The Decembrists actually sell albums and I doubt Capital records are about to shut down. I do like some artists that don't have many fans like Rasputina and Holly Golightly. But they do things to get by and aren't blaming their lot on streaming.
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I looked at the artists on Esl and I never heard of any of them. Does this esl label even do vinyl releases?
ESL has been producing vinyl for years. The founders were/are DJs and classic vinyl-especially Latin American and lounge music from the 50's and 60's were their, and continue to be their inspiration.
Like Kosmo, I have many, many of their albums from a variety of artists they promoted and released.
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You are a joke.
Well i think this is uncalled for...
I mean you have nothing to add to the conversation other than a personal attack?
weak
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I stick by my words.
If you cant handle being called a joke, then don't call labels you know nothing about, a joke.
And personal attack?
Says the guy who uses HIPSTER like its a slur...
LOL
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killsally, angriest board member?
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hipster is a slur. a meaningless, defineless, slur. but a slur, nonetheless.
case in point: when have you ever heard someone use it as a positive?
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I am probably the nicest person on this board.
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I'm not saying they do say it about me...but I'd consider it a positive if my Miller Lite drinking, minivan driving, Dave Matthews listening, military loving, churchgoing suburban neighbors referred to me as a "hipster".
hipster is a slur. a meaningless, defineless, slur. but a slur, nonetheless.
case in point: when have you ever heard someone use it as a positive?
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I am probably the nicest person on this board.
As long as no one disagrees with you on anything whatsoever, sure.
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would you rather be called . . . a hipster, a hippie, or hopeless
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hipster is a slur. a meaningless, defineless, slur. but a slur, nonetheless.
case in point: when have you ever heard someone use it as a positive?
Hipster isn't a slur. Bro isn't a slur. You just use them negatively.
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It's the preps versus the skaters, all over again.
Being a "skater" should not have been a slur when I was in high school, but it was.
Atomic, I am with you, but when has Bro or Hipster been used positively on here, and not just as negative identifiers?
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hipster is a slur. a meaningless, defineless, slur. but a slur, nonetheless.
case in point: when have you ever heard someone use it as a positive?
Hipster isn't a slur. Bro isn't a slur. You just use them negatively.
i don't do anything. but without question every time i hear the word "hipster" as a descriptor, it's negative. which makes it a slur.
but discourse about what does and does not constitute a slur is frivolous so i'll just end it here. think what ever you want, i consider it a slur.
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The Hipster in the Mirror
By MARK GREIF
A year ago, my colleagues and I started to investigate the contemporary hipster. What was the ?hipster,? and what did it mean to be one? It was a puzzle. No one, it seemed, thought of himself as a hipster, and when someone called you a hipster, the term was an insult. Paradoxically, those who used the insult were themselves often said to resemble hipsters ? they wore the skinny jeans and big eyeglasses, gathered in tiny enclaves in big cities, and looked down on mainstream fashions and ?tourists.? Most puzzling was how rattled sensible, down-to-earth people became when we posed hipster-themed questions. When we announced a public debate on hipsterism, I received e-mail messages both furious and plaintive. Normally inquisitive people protested that there could be no answer and no definition. Maybe hipsters didn?t exist! The responses were more impassioned than those we?d had in our discussions on health care, young conservatives and feminism. And perfectly blameless individuals began flagellating themselves: ?Am I a hipster??
I wondered if I could guess the root of their pain. It?s a superficial topic, yet it seemed that so much was at stake. Why? Because struggles over taste (and ?taste? is the hipster?s primary currency) are never only about taste. I began to wish that everyone I talked to had read just one book to give these fraught debates a frame: ?Distinction: A Social Critique of the Judgement of Taste,? by Pierre Bourdieu.
A French sociologist who died in 2002 at age 71, Bourdieu is sometimes wrongly associated with postmodern philosophers. But he did share with other post-1968 French thinkers a wish to show that lofty philosophical ideals couldn?t be separated from the conflicts of everyday life. Subculture had not been his area, precisely, but neither would hipsters have been beneath his notice.
He came from a family of peasants in the foothills of the Pyrenees. His father was elevated by a job in the village post office ? although he always emphasized that he had attained his position by being neither better nor different. Pierre, as a child, was elevated yet more drastically by the school system. He so distinguished himself in the classroom that he was carried to studies at the École Normale Supérieure in Paris. This was the pinnacle of French intellect, the path of Sartre and Maurice Merleau-Ponty.
Yet Bourdieu chose to make it his life?s work to debunk the powerful classes? pretensions that they were more deserving of authority or wealth than those below. He aimed his critiques first at his own class of elites ? professors and intellectuals ? then at the media, the political class and the propertied class.
?Distinction,? published in 1979, was an undisputed masterwork. In it, Bourdieu set out to show the social logic of taste: how admiration for art, appreciation of music, even taste in food, came about for different groups, and how ?superior? taste was not the result of an enchanted superiority in scattered individuals.
This may seem a long way from Wellington-booted and trucker-hatted American youth in gentrifying neighborhoods. But Bourdieu?s innovation, applicable here, was to look beyond the traditional trappings of rich or poor to see battles of symbols (like those boots and hats) traversing all society, reinforcing the class structure just as money did.
Over several years in the 1960s, Bourdieu and his researchers surveyed 1,200 people of all classes and mined government data on aspects of French domestic life. They asked, for instance, Which of the following subjects would be most likely to make a beautiful photograph? and offered such choices as a sunset, a girl with a cat or a car crash. From government dietary research, they took data on the classic question: Do you think French people eat too much? The statistical results were striking. The things you prefer ? tastes that you like to think of as personal, unique, justified only by sensibility ? correspond tightly to defining measures of social class: your profession, your highest degree and your father?s profession.
The power of Bourdieu?s statistics was to show how rigid and arbitrary the local conformities were. In American terms, he was like an updater of Thorstein Veblen, who gave us the idea of ?conspicuous consumption.? College teachers and artists, unusual in believing that a beautiful photo could be made from a car crash, began to look conditioned to that taste, rather than sophisticated or deep. White-collar workers who defined themselves by their proclivity to eat only light foods ? as opposed to farmworkers, who weren?t ashamed to treat themselves to ?both cheese and a dessert? ? seemed not more refined, but merely more conventional.
Taste is not stable and peaceful, but a means of strategy and competition. Those superior in wealth use it to pretend they are superior in spirit. Groups closer in social class who yet draw their status from different sources use taste and its attainments to disdain one another and get a leg up. These conflicts for social dominance through culture are exactly what drive the dynamics within communities whose members are regarded as hipsters.
Once you take the Bourdieuian view, you can see how hipster neighborhoods are crossroads where young people from different origins, all crammed together, jockey for social gain. One hipster subgroup?s strategy is to disparage others as ?liberal arts college grads with too much time on their hands?; the attack is leveled at the children of the upper middle class who move to cities after college with hopes of working in the ?creative professions.? These hipsters are instantly declassed, reservoired in abject internships and ignored in the urban hierarchy ? but able to use college-taught skills of classification, collection and appreciation to generate a superior body of cultural ?cool.?
They, in turn, may malign the ?trust fund hipsters.? This challenges the philistine wealthy who, possessed of money but not the nose for culture, convert real capital into ?cultural capital? (Bourdieu?s most famous coinage), acquiring subculture as if it were ready-to-wear. (Think of Paris Hilton in her trucker hat.)
Both groups, meanwhile, look down on the couch-surfing, old-clothes-wearing hipsters who seem most authentic but are also often the most socially precarious ? the lower-middle-class young, moving up through style, but with no backstop of parental culture or family capital. They are the bartenders and boutique clerks who wait on their well-to-do peers and wealthy tourists. Only on the basis of their cool clothes can they be ?superior?: hipster knowledge compensates for economic immobility.
All hipsters play at being the inventors or first adopters of novelties: pride comes from knowing, and deciding, what?s cool in advance of the rest of the world. Yet the habits of hatred and accusation are endemic to hipsters because they feel the weakness of everyone?s position ? including their own. Proving that someone is trying desperately to boost himself instantly undoes him as an opponent. He?s a fake, while you are a natural aristocrat of taste. That?s why ?He?s not for real, he?s just a hipster? is a potent insult among all the people identifiable as hipsters themselves.
The attempt to analyze the hipster provokes such universal anxiety because it calls everyone?s bluff. And hipsters aren?t the only ones unnerved. Many of us try to justify our privileges by pretending that our superb tastes and intellect prove we deserve them, reflecting our inner superiority. Those below us economically, the reasoning goes, don?t appreciate what we do; similarly, they couldn?t fill our jobs, handle our wealth or survive our difficulties. Of course this is a terrible lie. And Bourdieu devoted his life to exposing it. Those who read him in effect become responsible to him ? forced to admit a failure to examine our own lives, down to the seeming trivialities of clothes and distinction that, as Bourdieu revealed, also structure our world.
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would you rather be called . . . a hipster, a hippie, or hopeless
hopeless. the other two are trying to categorize you, and hopeless can be a personal opinion. i'm sure ratbastard thinks i'm hopeless, and vice versa, but truth is both of us are probably doing just fine. okay, he might be a little bit hopeless.
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i prefer, hapless
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I prefer haberdasher to the stars.
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how hard you have me
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I stick by my words.
If you cant handle being called a joke, then don't call labels you know nothing about, a joke.
And personal attack?
Says the guy who uses HIPSTER like its a slur...
LOL
Using the word hipster to refer to other people is now a "slur"?
My gosh the word slur just don't mean what it used to..
As far as the labels being a joke: I'm all for DIY... what I obviously meant was a joke in the commercial sense... and that is true... they don't sell any records are are largely unknown except by a few hipsters on this board.... I admire anyone who sets up a label but I'm not going to compare them to Dischord or Merge or Matador or something... they're just not in the same league.. in fact they are not in any league.. in terms of sales I'm guessing they are completely insignificant which is why I asked for an example of one record released on those labels that had sold more than 100 copies.
Doesn't make these micro-labels or mini-labels bad... actually they're good.... I ocassionally give thought to starting my own label to promote and release- on vinyl- one of my favorite local bands but then decide against it.. its definitely a tough thing to do...a labor of love
but ESL didn't just put out stuff that sold insignificantly..whether you like them or not many people around the world interested in modern-ish music when they think of a DC band its going to be Thievery Corporation and if they visit DC taking a look at 18th St Lounge etc... Thievery has a lot of action with different musicians from around the world...participated in some important remix projects (Verve Remix series for example, etc.)
Having said all this its obvious to anyone that the downtempo chillout scene is pretty dead.
As for calling someone a "joke" because you disagree with them on something on an internet board.. I would say that qualifies you as a first rate asshole... how do you like them apples? And its hard for me to write that because you seemed like a nice guy Killsally.. I remember when you left the board being bummed out and saying as much but I'm not sure if you're going through something in your life that is leading you to be angry or something... maybe you are.... just be aware that insulting people on a board isn't exactly copacetic...and I'm hoping you have better things to do with your time..
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Lol
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Lol
insults and LOL's ....you got zilcho and are starting to evince a serious case of trollitis... ;D
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Ha ha
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I will type a proper response to you when I get home.
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I'm not saying they do say it about me...but I'd consider it a positive if my Miller Lite drinking, minivan driving, Dave Matthews listening, military loving, churchgoing suburban neighbors referred to me as a "hipster".
hipster is a slur. a meaningless, defineless, slur. but a slur, nonetheless.
case in point: when have you ever heard someone use it as a positive?
with a list of credentials like that, they full on believe you to be one of them terrorists.
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sorry but not every term with a negative connotation rises to the level of slur...
and I would argue that many hipsters would have no problem being called one.... they'd be like "well, yeah, i'm pretty hip.. i'm plugged in..connected.. i know what the new albums that are "in" are....I value my craft beers... and I prefer being called a hipster to being that guy going on about his old Willie Nelson records drinking his shit beer.. now that dude is way unhip... "
;D
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how about this: some people use it as if it was a slur.
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I stick by my words.
If you cant handle being called a joke, then don't call labels you know nothing about, a joke.
And personal attack?
Says the guy who uses HIPSTER like its a slur...
LOL
Using the word hipster to refer to other people is now a "slur"?
My gosh the word slur just don't mean what it used to..
As far as the labels being a joke: I'm all for DIY... what I obviously meant was a joke in the commercial sense... and that is true... they don't sell any records are are largely unknown except by a few hipsters on this board.... I admire anyone who sets up a label but I'm not going to compare them to Dischord or Merge or Matador or something... they're just not in the same league.. in fact they are not in any league.. in terms of sales I'm guessing they are completely insignificant which is why I asked for an example of one record released on those labels that had sold more than 100 copies.
Doesn't make these micro-labels or mini-labels bad... actually they're good.... I ocassionally give thought to starting my own label to promote and release- on vinyl- one of my favorite local bands but then decide against it.. its definitely a tough thing to do...a labor of love
but ESL didn't just put out stuff that sold insignificantly..whether you like them or not many people around the world interested in modern-ish music when they think of a DC band its going to be Thievery Corporation and if they visit DC taking a look at 18th St Lounge etc... Thievery has a lot of action with different musicians from around the world...participated in some important remix projects (Verve Remix series for example, etc.)
Having said all this its obvious to anyone that the downtempo chillout scene is pretty dead.
As for calling someone a "joke" because you disagree with them on something on an internet board.. I would say that qualifies you as a first rate asshole... how do you like them apples? And its hard for me to write that because you seemed like a nice guy Killsally.. I remember when you left the board being bummed out and saying as much but I'm not sure if you're going through something in your life that is leading you to be angry or something... maybe you are.... just be aware that insulting people on a board isn't exactly copacetic...and I'm hoping you have better things to do with your time..
I would state that Friends Record is on a higher level than Dischord. I guess Dischord had some good releases back in the day Minor Threat, Grey Matter, Rites of Spring but I have no idead what they do now. And I would say even back in the day I liked Fountain of Youth better: Crippled Pilgrims, Velvet Monkeys, 9353, Government Issue, and Madhouse is as good as it gets.
But yes Friends Records have had releases of 1000 Vinyl Copies. Future Islands, Celebration and Art Lord. I don't know how many vinyl copies ESL sells as they say between CD, Vinyl, and MP3 they aren't selling 5000 copies. I know this because this is why they are whinning and shutting down. Besides Celebration I have Height with Friends album which is amazing. Also Violet Hour and the chick from Wye Oak's solo album.
Celebration used to be on 4AD and Future Islands is now on 4AD which is a major independent label.
Geez Hutch get a life. I know you are in pain and stuff but not everyone stopped listening to new bands in 1992.
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how about this: some people use it as if it was a slur.
That tells you more about them than the person they are thinking they are slurring. .
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how about this: some people use it as if it was a slur.
That tells you more about them than the person they are thinking they are slurring. .
i agree with that.
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Hipsters are passe. It's all about normcore (http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/02/normcore-fashion-trend.html) now. Or rustic artisanal twee (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/27/fashion/kinfolk-magazine-the-martha-stewart-living-of-the-portland-set.html).
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Ok here is a better response than LOL.
Nothing happened in my personal life to change how I post. Not that my personal life is ANY of your business. How I post is my concern. It keeps me entertained enough to keep coming here.
Do you think of yourself as a nice guy on here? With a friendly posting style? Or do you have a "better than you" attitude in regards to everything, and you are QUITE dismissive for things you do not know about?
Which is what you did the other day, were completely dismissive (and really came off like an asshole to be honest) of something you didn't know about. You asked if any local labels were SUBSTANTIAL. You didnt specify any kind of monetary value, you said substantial. So I listed some of my favorites that are doing substantial things artistically, and for the local area/art community.
But did you do ANY research into these? No, you just called them a joke.
You also say:
Local labels of note I can remember are
and listed a few labels. If you knew anything about Friends Records, or Fan Death, you could say they are "of note". Like atomic said, Friends releases music by some of the biggest bands in the Baltimore area. They usually do 500 to 100 runs on vinyl (not sure about cassettes). They also do ok in the digital realm. They also throw shows in the area. They also do a music festival in Baltimore every year. Noteworthy to me. But not to you. Because you dont know anything about them.
You asked for local labels, and I listed them. I did preface my post with "They might not be substantial to you, but I personally dig the music that a few local record labels release." Accidental Guest releases get Pitchfork and Rolling Stone write ups. Fan Death has put out everything from Purling Hiss to Roomrunner. Who knows if they are the next Sub Pop? These are NEWER labels. They didnt exist in the 1980s, or 90s, to have time to get to be on the level or Merge, or 4AD.
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When are all other content producers going to realize the porn industry model? They continue to make money hand over fist by embracing new technologies and delivery models and being early adopters.
that was true up until 2008 or 2009. since then, the porn industry has been in steady decline. very little money is being made thanks to piracy.
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When are all other content producers going to realize the porn industry model? They continue to make money hand over fist by embracing new technologies and delivery models and being early adopters.
that was true up until 2008 or 2009. since then, the porn industry has been in steady decline. very little money is being made thanks to piracy.
i always wondered what you did for a living.
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I stick by my words.
If you cant handle being called a joke, then don't call labels you know nothing about, a joke.
And personal attack?
Says the guy who uses HIPSTER like its a slur...
LOL
Using the word hipster to refer to other people is now a "slur"?
My gosh the word slur just don't mean what it used to..
As far as the labels being a joke: I'm all for DIY... what I obviously meant was a joke in the commercial sense... and that is true... they don't sell any records are are largely unknown except by a few hipsters on this board.... I admire anyone who sets up a label but I'm not going to compare them to Dischord or Merge or Matador or something... they're just not in the same league.. in fact they are not in any league.. in terms of sales I'm guessing they are completely insignificant which is why I asked for an example of one record released on those labels that had sold more than 100 copies.
Doesn't make these micro-labels or mini-labels bad... actually they're good.... I ocassionally give thought to starting my own label to promote and release- on vinyl- one of my favorite local bands but then decide against it.. its definitely a tough thing to do...a labor of love
but ESL didn't just put out stuff that sold insignificantly..whether you like them or not many people around the world interested in modern-ish music when they think of a DC band its going to be Thievery Corporation and if they visit DC taking a look at 18th St Lounge etc... Thievery has a lot of action with different musicians from around the world...participated in some important remix projects (Verve Remix series for example, etc.)
Having said all this its obvious to anyone that the downtempo chillout scene is pretty dead.
As for calling someone a "joke" because you disagree with them on something on an internet board.. I would say that qualifies you as a first rate asshole... how do you like them apples? And its hard for me to write that because you seemed like a nice guy Killsally.. I remember when you left the board being bummed out and saying as much but I'm not sure if you're going through something in your life that is leading you to be angry or something... maybe you are.... just be aware that insulting people on a board isn't exactly copacetic...and I'm hoping you have better things to do with your time..
I would state that Friends Record is on a higher level than Dischord. I guess Dischord had some good releases back in the day Minor Threat, Grey Matter, Rites of Spring but I have no idead what they do now. And I would say even back in the day I liked Fountain of Youth better: Crippled Pilgrims, Velvet Monkeys, 9353, Government Issue, and Madhouse is as good as it gets.
But yes Friends Records have had releases of 1000 Vinyl Copies. Future Islands, Celebration and Art Lord. I don't know how many vinyl copies ESL sells as they say between CD, Vinyl, and MP3 they aren't selling 5000 copies. I know this because this is why they are whinning and shutting down. Besides Celebration I have Height with Friends album which is amazing. Also Violet Hour and the chick from Wye Oak's solo album.
Celebration used to be on 4AD and Future Islands is now on 4AD which is a major independent label.
Geez Hutch get a life. I know you are in pain and stuff but not everyone stopped listening to new bands in 1992.
Dischord may do a release or two a year but they are mostly a distributor now.
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I stick by my words.
If you cant handle being called a joke, then don't call labels you know nothing about, a joke.
And personal attack?
Says the guy who uses HIPSTER like its a slur...
LOL
Using the word hipster to refer to other people is now a "slur"?
My gosh the word slur just don't mean what it used to..
As far as the labels being a joke: I'm all for DIY... what I obviously meant was a joke in the commercial sense... and that is true... they don't sell any records are are largely unknown except by a few hipsters on this board.... I admire anyone who sets up a label but I'm not going to compare them to Dischord or Merge or Matador or something... they're just not in the same league.. in fact they are not in any league.. in terms of sales I'm guessing they are completely insignificant which is why I asked for an example of one record released on those labels that had sold more than 100 copies.
Doesn't make these micro-labels or mini-labels bad... actually they're good.... I ocassionally give thought to starting my own label to promote and release- on vinyl- one of my favorite local bands but then decide against it.. its definitely a tough thing to do...a labor of love
but ESL didn't just put out stuff that sold insignificantly..whether you like them or not many people around the world interested in modern-ish music when they think of a DC band its going to be Thievery Corporation and if they visit DC taking a look at 18th St Lounge etc... Thievery has a lot of action with different musicians from around the world...participated in some important remix projects (Verve Remix series for example, etc.)
Having said all this its obvious to anyone that the downtempo chillout scene is pretty dead.
As for calling someone a "joke" because you disagree with them on something on an internet board.. I would say that qualifies you as a first rate asshole... how do you like them apples? And its hard for me to write that because you seemed like a nice guy Killsally.. I remember when you left the board being bummed out and saying as much but I'm not sure if you're going through something in your life that is leading you to be angry or something... maybe you are.... just be aware that insulting people on a board isn't exactly copacetic...and I'm hoping you have better things to do with your time..
Umm Cuneiform are kind of huge in the contemporary jazz/prog/experimental worlds. http://cuneiformrecords.bandcamp.com/ Not into the prog stuff all that much but the other stuff speaks for itself. And again, if you haven't heard of any of it, that's your problem. They are doing fine.
I'll let VHF's discography speak for itself, too. (http://www.vhfrecords.com/catalog/)
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the generational differences are fascinating here.
i also wonder if anyone even took notice of ESL closing up shop outside this forum. did anyone else know they closed? because hutch posted this article, and hutch is currently getting crucified for asking a few questions.
i'd have a beer with any of you and listen to your opinions on music. sure, there are rifts here between what people believe in and what they think matters and what's relevant, but at the heart of it people still really give a shit about the quality of music and the business involved. i haven't been around long enough to know what the hell it was like 20 years ago, but from everything i've ever read, the music industry has always been a cutthroat, go fuck yourself business that's all about being the best. whether it's acquiring millions of dollars, selling out MSG, getting one million streams, or just saying fuck the man, that hasn't changed. ESL closing wont change that. a record shop closing wont change that. nostalgia might be lost, maybe some scenes might become more saturated and local scenes might die, but in a universal sense nothing has changed.
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And here's a comment that will rile up the lemmings... No one is forcing you to be an artist. Don't release albums if you don't want people to stream/steal your music.
Put on a helluva live show and become good musicians and people will pay to hear your art.
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Also A389... Being a DIY, one man in a basement deal, is still pretty prolific... 140 releases in the last decade plus a festival every year. I have no idea if it sells tons of albums, but it is famous in the metal community..
http://www.a389records.com/site/releases/
https://a389recordings.bandcamp.com/
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And here's a comment that will rile up the lemmings... No one is forcing you to be an artist. Don't release albums if you don't want people to stream/steal your music.
Put on a helluva live show and become good musicians and people will pay to hear your art.
Were The Lemmings on ESL?
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Geez Hutch get a life. I know you are in pain and stuff but not everyone stopped listening to new bands in 1992.
1992???
That would mean I'd never heard my favorite year, 1994? Impossible..
oh I still buy a few new albums a year... I've been listening a lot to Andres Calamaro's Bohemio from last year and have had to reassess..its a stellar record..
My philosophy is I don't care when an album is released... it has no bearing on its value to me....
Your comment is akin to saying "Bob Dylan get a life" cause he still likes to listen to the Mississippi Sheikhs....
good music is good music..doesn't matter when it comes out... there is nothing better about music cause its newer... some people think newer music is somehow better cause it builds on the past... in some cases that may be true but in general terms not...
Right now I'm listening to Allen Tousssaint's "Songbook" album released last year... Allen Toussaint is a national treasure and one of our greater songwriters....
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Geez Hutch get a life. I know you are in pain and stuff but not everyone stopped listening to new bands in 1992.
1992???
That would mean I'd never heard my favorite year, 1994? Impossible..
oh I still buy a few new albums a year... I've been listening a lot to Andres Calamaro's Bohemio from last year and have had to reassess..its a stellar record..
My philosophy is I don't care when an album is released... it has no bearing on its value to me....
Your comment is akin to saying "Bob Dylan get a life" cause he still likes to listen to the Mississippi Sheikhs....
good music is good music..doesn't matter when it comes out... there is nothing better about music cause its newer... some people think newer music is somehow better cause it builds on the past... in some cases that may be true but in general terms not...
Right now I'm listening to Allen Tousssaint's "Songbook" album released last year... Allen Toussaint is a national treasure and one of our greater songwriters....
I bet Allen T received 12 cents from your purchase of his album...
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Geez Hutch get a life. I know you are in pain and stuff but not everyone stopped listening to new bands in 1992.
1992???
That would mean I'd never heard my favorite year, 1994? Impossible..
oh I still buy a few new albums a year... I've been listening a lot to Andres Calamaro's Bohemio from last year and have had to reassess..its a stellar record..
My philosophy is I don't care when an album is released... it has no bearing on its value to me....
Your comment is akin to saying "Bob Dylan get a life" cause he still likes to listen to the Mississippi Sheikhs....
good music is good music..doesn't matter when it comes out... there is nothing better about music cause its newer... some people think newer music is somehow better cause it builds on the past... in some cases that may be true but in general terms not...
Right now I'm listening to Allen Tousssaint's "Songbook" album released last year... Allen Toussaint is a national treasure and one of our greater songwriters....
I bet Allen T received 12 cents from your purchase of his album...
et tu yada.... ::)
oh I don't know..its a deluxe issue with a DVD! on a small label, rounder, that tends to do right by their artists...
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its nice having the toussaint because its a live record and really reminds me of the show we saw at ramshead annapolis.....its very similar...same spoken word portion to southern nights
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Hey look who it is right on cue. (http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has-been-solved-by-the-internet/)
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Hey look who it is right on cue. (http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has-been-solved-by-the-internet/)
ah bueno.... el dios albino (sic) ha hablado! paren la discusion.
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Hey look who it is right on cue. (http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has-been-solved-by-the-internet/)
ah bueno.... el dios albino (sic) ha hablado! paren la discusion.
Toteso. What he diced.
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guacamole, burrito, taco bell. thats all I know.
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Hey look who it is right on cue. (http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has-been-solved-by-the-internet/)
you know i knew exactly what this was a link to before I clicked it and i hadn't even read alibini's latest rant yet...
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Hey look who it is right on cue. (http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has-been-solved-by-the-internet/)
I'm glad to read that my Spotify subscription is helping to change the world for the better.
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Hutch's dirty little secret...he buys A LOT of used vinyl/CD/wax cylinders ...who is really getting paid there...certainly not the artist
and yes in the last few years back in DC I really have had an inferior music set up...I have only myself to blame for that.\
Oh it was mentioned, but Ursula 1000 was awesome, their vinyl was in heavy rotation on my tables about a decade ago
Hipster is objectively a slur...not sure why that is even a question
Seriously, show me one example of it used in a positive light?
I can't speak for Baltimore, but DC's local music scene really has been lacking for almost 30 years
and ESL was one of the few examples of a DC label/Act that was doing anything substantial on a national/international level.
I think there is a level of an artist that plays at a venue like 930 or Black Cat in other cites and I can't imagine many acts from DC that could go to SF and sell out the Fillmore
I agree there are probably hundreds of small acts that you could probably list that might fill the red room
But can't think of one act in the last 30 years that could sell out a medium sized label in a city 500 miles from here
ESL was past it's prime, but they certainly had a prime. People were listening and buying their stuff
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Hutch's dirty little secret...he buys A LOT of used vinyl/CD/wax cylinders ...who is really getting paid there...certainly not the artist
This is not a dirty secret as its been mentioned by me on this board.
I buy my fair share of new vinyl too though... just in the last week I bought the Lydia Loveless new one and the Amigos Invisibles Arepa 3000 reissue on vinyl... I'm pretty sure both Lost Highway and Luaka Bop (David Byrne) pay their artists.
Moreover, I've never subscribed to the theory that buying used product has no impact on the sale of new product. If people buy up all the used stock then others will have to buy the new stock... or looking at it on Amazon if enough people buy the old stock it will make the new stock much more affordable in relation to the old stock. Some bands you find the used copies cost about as much as the new copies in the end (particularly if you have prime) so you are more likely to buy it new.
There is no way "hipster" is a slur... it may not be a nice term..it may have a negative connotation but that still don't make it no slur... a slur is a word I can't even post here without getting banned.
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Hutch's dirty little secret...he buys A LOT of used vinyl/CD/wax cylinders ...who is really getting paid there...certainly not the artist
This is not a dirty secret as its been mentioned by me on this board.
I buy my fair share of new vinyl too though... just in the last week I bought the Lydia Loveless new one and the Amigos Invisibles Arepa 3000 reissue on vinyl... I'm pretty sure both Lost Highway and Luaka Bop (David Byrne) pay their artists.
Moreover, I've never subscribed to the theory that buying used product has no impact on the sale of new product. If people buy up all the used stock then others will have to buy the new stock... or looking at it on Amazon if enough people buy the old stock it will make the new stock much more affordable in relation to the old stock. Some bands you find the used copies cost about as much as the new copies in the end (particularly if you have prime) so you are more likely to buy it new.
There is no way "hipster" is a slur... it may not be a nice term..it may have a negative connotation but that still don't make it no slur... a slur is a word I can't even post here without getting banned.
Sure you can post slurs. You can post about the Landover football team. You can post about being gyped. Post about someone driving a ricer. Call someone a beaner. I think most slurs are fine on here.
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Moreover, I've never subscribed to the theory that buying used product has no impact on the sale of new product. If people buy up all the used stock then others will have to buy the new stock... or looking at it on Amazon if enough people buy the old stock it will make the new stock much more affordable in relation to the old stock. Some bands you find the used copies cost about as much as the new copies in the end (particularly if you have prime) so you are more likely to buy it new.
Oh please. Stop deluding yourself with convoluted arguments about how you purchase used product to reduce supply thus pushing the marginal buyer into new product that will directly benefit the artist.
I buy plenty of used myself. I have no guilt over it. The artist got his compensation the first time it sold.
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Moreover, I've never subscribed to the theory that buying used product has no impact on the sale of new product. If people buy up all the used stock then others will have to buy the new stock... or looking at it on Amazon if enough people buy the old stock it will make the new stock much more affordable in relation to the old stock. Some bands you find the used copies cost about as much as the new copies in the end (particularly if you have prime) so you are more likely to buy it new.
Oh please. Stop deluding yourself with convoluted arguments about how you purchase used product to reduce supply thus pushing the marginal buyer into new product that will directly benefit the artist.
I buy plenty of used myself. I have no guilt over it. The artist got his compensation the first time it sold.
well I didn't say that now did I? I didn't say I purchase used product to directly benefit the artist...
I said it happens to do so (but thats not why I do it).. here I'm talking about new music..
When I really want to support an artist.... say a Dean Wareham or whatever....I just buy direct from their website...
Now when you're collecting old Nat King Cole or Frank Sinatra or Billie records.. .music made long ago.. who cares if I buy a used record? Because often time the vinyl I buy used is stuff that came out at least 40 years ago...
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Moreover, I've never subscribed to the theory that buying used product has no impact on the sale of new product. If people buy up all the used stock then others will have to buy the new stock... or looking at it on Amazon if enough people buy the old stock it will make the new stock much more affordable in relation to the old stock. Some bands you find the used copies cost about as much as the new copies in the end (particularly if you have prime) so you are more likely to buy it new.
Oh please. Stop deluding yourself with convoluted arguments about how you purchase used product to reduce supply thus pushing the marginal buyer into new product that will directly benefit the artist.
I buy plenty of used myself. I have no guilt over it. The artist got his compensation the first time it sold.
Hutch just doesn't know how to stream music. Once he learns how he will be all in. I stream from my phone at work. Stream from my Ipad Air at home. I was listening to BJ Thomas the other day. Do you think I would ever buy BJ Thomas's music? No way. But I felt like listening to his songs so opened up Rhapsody and there it was. He gets money that he would have never gotten before. Its a win/win.
Hutch you need to replace your flip phone and get a real phone and sign up to Rhapsody and listen to anything you want. You might even find some new artists you like. Then if you like them enough go buy their music on vinyl.
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There is no way "hipster" is a slur... it may not be a nice term..it may have a negative connotation but that still don't make it no slur... a slur is a word I can't even post here without getting banned.
I am not sure that you understand the word "slur."
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/slur
A slur is an insulting remark. In a political campaign, it?s not unheard of for a candidate to launch a slur at her opponent, though doing so is usually frowned upon.
Slur can also be used as a verb meaning ?to insult,? and it has a number of additional meanings as well. To slur one?s speech is to pronounce words in a clumsy, lazy way. In the context of music, to slur is to slide smoothly from one note to another. The word history of slur is hazy, but some scholars have suggested a relationship with a Dutch word meaning "to drag."
You use hipster as an insult, so therefore, it is a slur. It doesn't have to be an ethnic slur, which is what you are probably thinking about.