930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: hutch on November 10, 2014, 11:44:44 pm
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RANT: If we didn't have any more wars- most of which are made up and fought for no good reason- we wouldn't need to worry too much about our veterans and whether they are ok... Of course I honor our veterans but I cant help but feel that most of them are being sent to fight for no good reason.......How about we honor our troops by not putting them in harms way, thousands of miles from home, for no good reason? In his memoir Gore Vidal, who also served, said he didn't think World War II was worth the death of his friend and it makes you think about how lightly the people who put life in harm's way hold life... they always convince you the fate of humanity and "freedom" hang in the balance but...is that really true?. To me it sounds like bullshit when I hear people yapping on and on about our veterans and how we honor their service... how about we honor their service by not putting them in harm's way for no reason? by not supporting putting them in harm's way for no reason?.. I mean, is there any other country in the world that has fought more wars than the United States? Moreover, we honor our troops and we talk all this bullshit as a society but we know they don't get the care they deserve when they come back so what are we really talking about here? War does terrible things to people..I remember my parents telling me about neighbours who came back from Vietnam really messed up... and yet we can't wait to get into the next war and when our veterans come back we don't have money to help them out...something really messed up about this "honor our vets" charade we play out on veterans day. I learned a few years ago that someone in my family died in World War II in Europe...of course I honor him on Veterans day and I often think of him but lets stop the baloney..we wouldn't need to stand up and clap at every baseball game for our veterans coming back....when we shouldn't be sending them far from home for no good reason anyways...all the "our thoughts and prayers" rings very hollow to me I'm afraid...
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I thought it would be good to get Julian's thoughts on Veterans Day, but then I found that he already posted them:
http://forum.930.com/index.php?topic=1644.msg26085#msg26085
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As a veteran I am proud to have served. Your entire post makes one rather fallacious premise, that being that every armed conflict ever fought was for 'no good reason'. (Not to mention the 'we can't wait to get into the next war' comment.) You are fully entitled to hold that belief. Protecting your right to do so is one of the reasons that I served. You are very welcome.
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Julian should go into fortune telling business.
Not to pedantic about it, ok, I will, England and France fought each other for 100 years, and that was only one of their wars, so, yeah, lots of other countries have fought way more wars than us.
Boy, that American Revolution sure was no good, and I bet those European Jews are pretty satisfied with Hitler having murdered millions of them...but, then, those were made up wars fought for no reason.
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Julian should go into fortune telling business.
Not to pedantic about it, ok, I will, England and France fought each other for 100 years, and that was only one of their wars, so, yeah, lots of other countries have fought way more wars than us.
Boy, that American Revolution sure was no good, and I bet those European Jews are pretty satisfied with Hitler having murdered millions of them...but, then, those were made up wars fought for no reason.
We did not fight World War II to help European Jews.... in fact we knew where the rail lines that took the jews to the concentration camps were and intentionally did not bomb them.. this is all documented... FDR had a Jewish Secretary of the Treasury (Morgenthau I believe) who implored him to do just that to no avail...
Its convenient for us to think we fought World War II to help Jewish people but its not substantiated by the facts..
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Julian should go into fortune telling business.
Not to pedantic about it, ok, I will, England and France fought each other for 100 years, and that was only one of their wars, so, yeah, lots of other countries have fought way more wars than us.
Boy, that American Revolution sure was no good, and I bet those European Jews are pretty satisfied with Hitler having murdered millions of them...but, then, those were made up wars fought for no reason.
Some great made up wars: Spanish-American War (set up by Hearst), all our invasions of Latin American countries for no good reason (Do we want to get specific about all the places we sent the marines to make sure our "interests" were defended? United Fruit Company anyone? We did a particularly bang up job in Guatemala), Vietnam (Gulf of Tonkin lies), Persian Gulf War (what was the point? I forget), Irak War (made up)
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As a veteran I am proud to have served. Your entire post makes one rather fallacious premise, that being that every armed conflict ever fought was for 'no good reason'. (Not to mention the 'we can't wait to get into the next war' comment.) You are fully entitled to hold that belief. Protecting your right to do so is one of the reasons that I served. You are very welcome.
and I thank you of course.. but I would argue that not putting you in harms way for no good reason is the ultimate thank you or did you miss that point?... one can still be a veteran without being sent to die or lose a leg for no reason...
the usual "we honor your service clap clap" is a cheap platitude compared to say paying for your health care needs when you return from war....
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Julian should go into fortune telling business.
Not to pedantic about it, ok, I will, England and France fought each other for 100 years, and that was only one of their wars, so, yeah, lots of other countries have fought way more wars than us.
in the last 200 years or since our founding? I don't think so... I visited an exhibit at the American Museum of National History and it was notable how we have pretty much been fighting this war or that war constantly...
Another great useless war was the Civil War... a war to tell the southern states "you can't leave the union that you joined voluntarily and we are going to fight a scorched earth war to make sure you don't..."
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its the ole, do i post said rant in the thread with my name on it, or start a new thread, because thats really neat o to do every once in a while. i know . . . i ponder such things too.
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As a veteran I am proud to have served. Your entire post makes one rather fallacious premise, that being that every armed conflict ever fought was for 'no good reason'. (Not to mention the 'we can't wait to get into the next war' comment.) You are fully entitled to hold that belief. Protecting your right to do so is one of the reasons that I served. You are very welcome.
and I thank you of course.. but I would argue that not putting you in harms way for no good reason is the ultimate thank you or did you miss that point?... one can still be a veteran without being sent to die or lose a leg for no reason...
the usual "we honor your service clap clap" is a cheap platitude compared to say paying for your health care needs when you return from war....
Again you are making false assumptions, many of them.
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As a veteran I am proud to have served. Your entire post makes one rather fallacious premise, that being that every armed conflict ever fought was for 'no good reason'. (Not to mention the 'we can't wait to get into the next war' comment.) You are fully entitled to hold that belief. Protecting your right to do so is one of the reasons that I served. You are very welcome.
and I thank you of course.. but I would argue that not putting you in harms way for no good reason is the ultimate thank you or did you miss that point?... one can still be a veteran without being sent to die or lose a leg for no reason...
the usual "we honor your service clap clap" is a cheap platitude compared to say paying for your health care needs when you return from war....
Again you are making false assumptions, many of them.
I would like to know what are these false assumptions... please tell me...cause, trust me, I want to be wrong!
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sadly even if today US stopped with the war'ing today....we'll have vets for at least another 70-80 years
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I've always preferred Arlo Guthrie this time of year. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5_8U4j51lI)
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sadly even if today US stopped with the war'ing today....we'll have vets for at least another 70-80 years
I think part of this constant "we honor them for their service and sacrifice" is just part of the pernanent war drum.....it becomes a normal cycle to have constant wars and honoring etc..surely helps people feel like the want to join the military...
Because pretty much all veterans for the past few decades have made the conscious choice to be a veteran...its a job.... this sort of seems to be forgotten..something unmentionable even...
There is a difference between someone who got drafted to fight and had no choice and someone who chooses it as a job... in so many cases the people who choose to join the military and fight in our wars are essentially people without prospects.....
But to me it seems natural to think that if the veterans, as I think we all agree, doing these terrible things for us... that cause them so many problems.... if they 're having to put their lives on the line for us... well it seems natural to ask "what can we do so less people have to do this???" And the obvious answer is "Have less wars!" Gee, you think? And yet when the war drum starts beating, as it did before the Iraq war you were branded unpatriotic for protesting the war even before it started.. I can remember the conversations on CNN of the sort "well the President has made the decision to go to war so these protesters are undermining the war and the lives of the soldiers..." In other words: "You better shut up and support the war...".... A completely fictitious useless war... the Sunnis and Shiites are going to tear themselves apart and our effort if anything was largely detrimental to our interests anyways (ISIS -regardless of what our media wishes us to think- is nothing more than the embittered Sunnis who feeling they weren't getting anything close to a fair shake in post Saddam Iraq decided to take up arms)
These are complex issues.... but personally I don't think clapping at a baseball game and taking my hat off is really doing much for veterans....
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What's with all the ellipses...?
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I know
and are the ones with 4 dots more important than the ones with 3 dots?
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What's with all the ellipses...?
He forgot to log in as Walkonby.
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I know
and are the ones with 4 dots more important than the ones with 3 dots?
A four dot "ellipsis" indicates that the omitted material included at least one full sentence.
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As a veteran I am proud to have served. Your entire post makes one rather fallacious premise, that being that every armed conflict ever fought was for 'no good reason'. (Not to mention the 'we can't wait to get into the next war' comment.) You are fully entitled to hold that belief. Protecting your right to do so is one of the reasons that I served. You are very welcome.
and I thank you of course.. but I would argue that not putting you in harms way for no good reason is the ultimate thank you or did you miss that point?... one can still be a veteran without being sent to die or lose a leg for no reason...
the usual "we honor your service clap clap" is a cheap platitude compared to say paying for your health care needs when you return from war....
Again you are making false assumptions, many of them.
I would like to know what are these false assumptions... please tell me...cause, trust me, I want to be wrong!
#1 putting military in harms way is (always) for no good reason.
#2 (implied) that the only thing the military is for is fighting wars.
#3 'we' can't wait to get into another war.
That's more than enough.
On a side note, I always thought the ultimate thank you would be for people in this country to go out and make the most of their lives. To bust their asses to the best of their ability and make something of themselves. Not saying that the USA is perfect and not at all saying 'love it or leave it' but the gift (for lack of better term) that those in the service give to the civilian world is the ability to live as you want and to do/say what you please. Yeah I know some people have it rougher than others and some people get born into a better situation and all, but we all have the opportunity to make what we want of ourselves.
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I know
and are the ones with 4 dots more important than the ones with 3 dots?
A four dot "ellipsis" indicates that the omitted material included at least one full sentence.
The ellipses is made up of three SPACED ellipses points. When used at the end of a sentence, a fourth ellipses point is used to indicate the period at the end of the sentence and there is no space between the last word of the sentence and the first ellipses point. That is what I recall anyway!
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#1 putting military in harms way is (always) for no good reason.
I will go over them step by step but they are big questions..and thank you for raising them..
Name the last time we put the military in a war for a good reason?.... limited UN or NATO missions such as Kosovo I could argue get a pass so please don't bring these up but where are all these good examples of worthwhile wars?
Would you argue that World War I was a good use of American lives? How about World War II? Ever imagine what would have happened to the Soviet Union if we had not interfered on their side? How about Iraq? How is that going?
The last worthwhile war I can think of was the US-Mexican War because at least we stole most of the western United States out of it and hey we all like California.. Certainly the War of 1812 was worthwhile and maybe the one clearcut example since independence of fighting for our "freedom"... but other than those notable exceptions not sure there are that many examples.....Fighting a war over the Phillipines???? Once we won we had no earthly idea what to do.. I'm sure we'll agree that Grenada was not a war...Korea? Did we actually accomplish anything there? I think its pretty much agreed nothing ended up changing there...other than the bodies we left on the ground that is...
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?We must openly acknowledge past mistakes, and learn from them, because that is how we avoid repeating them...We must always question our policies that send our citizens to war, because our nation?s policies must always be worthy of the sacrifices we ask of the men and women who defend our country." -- Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, November 11, 2014.
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I know
and are the ones with 4 dots more important than the ones with 3 dots?
A four dot "ellipsis" indicates that the omitted material included at least one full sentence.
The ellipses is made up of three SPACED ellipses points. When used at the end of a sentence, a fourth ellipses point is used to indicate the period at the end of the sentence and there is no space between the last word of the sentence and the first ellipses point. That is what I recall anyway!
That's correct.
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hey one in four or one in three homeless men are veterans but what the fuck we honor their service and clap for them at ballgames... and post nice things about them on facebook..
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/jan/01/texas-veterans-commission/veterans-commission-representative-says-one-three-/
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Are you implying that the homeless can't have facebook? Because that's just ignorant.
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I'll just leave this here. (http://www.salon.com/2013/08/25/no_thanks_i_wont_support_the_troops/)
And yeah, everything Hutch said.
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When Dave Grohl took the stage with Zac Brown I was hoping it was for this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv5ekzTubwU), but that probably wouldn't have been appropriate for the occasion.
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I find it remarkably odd that the US wars you cite as somewhat justifiable are the War of 1812 and the Mexican-American War. WWII was about lots of things, the least of which was to stop a holocaust- our sitting idly by while Hitler murdered undesirables, while Rwanda happened, while Serbs massacred Bosnians, if stepping in to stop these from happening is wrong, then I am truly sorry for you.
"the good man should be both a strong and a brave man; that is, he should be able to fight, he should be able to serve his country as a soldier, if the need arises. There are well-meaning philosophers who declaim against the unrighteousness of war. They are right only if they lay all their emphasis upon the unrighteousness. War is a dreadful thing, and unjust war is a crime against humanity. But it is such a crime because it is unjust, not because it is a war. The choice must ever be in favor of righteousness, and this is whether the alternative be peace or whether the alternative be war. The question must not be merely, Is there to be peace or war? The question must be, Is it right to prevail? Are the great laws of righteousness once more to be fulfilled? And the answer from a strong and virile people must be "Yes," whatever the cost. Every honorable effort should always be made to avoid war, just as every honorable effort should always be made by the individual in private life to keep out of a brawl, to keep out of trouble; but no self-respecting individual, no self-respecting nation, can or ought to submit to wrong." Theodore Roosevelt
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When Dave Grohl took the stage with Zac Brown I was hoping it was for this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv5ekzTubwU), but that probably wouldn't have been appropriate for the occasion.
fortunate son is just as blatantly anti-war and anti-patriotism but it made the cut somehow
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When Dave Grohl took the stage with Zac Brown I was hoping it was for this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv5ekzTubwU), but that probably wouldn't have been appropriate for the occasion.
fortunate son is just as blatantly anti-war and anti-patriotism but it made the cut somehow
Nah, Fortunate Son is pro-soldier, so it can't be anti-patriotic.
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but its about how the people who promote war arent the ones who have to fight it. doesnt really jive with the whole rah rah patriotism thing at all.
its not anti soldier but its weird that it made the cut to play at that concert
i didnt watch so i have no clue how it was received in person
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I thought the event was supposed to be for the soldiers and veterans, and not rah rah patriotism.
And shouldn't you be complaining about Born in the USA, too?
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im not complaining. fortunate son's one of my all time favorite songs. i love that they played it, im just surprised they were allowed
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im not complaining. fortunate son's one of my all time favorite songs. i love that they played it, im just surprised they were allowed
Of course they were allowed. That's what makes America great.
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The only problem is there is absolutely nothing unpatriotic about ?Fortunate Son.? In fact, ?Fortunate Son? is extremely patriotic when you think about it. Here?s why ?
The song was an anti-war anthem in the late ?60s that took aim at the men behind the war (the politicians and the military and societal elite), but never those fighting it (the common men). And, this is the very reason why it should not be controversial for the song to be played at an event honoring veterans because the song in itself was honoring the men fighting and losing their lives in the war in Vietnam while those more fortunate pulled strings back at home to not have to fight and die for their country.
Unfortunately, some ignorant people like those going off on it on the internet, simply cannot understand the meaning of ?Fortunate Son.? They think they know what it?s about without ever truly listening to the lyrics or trying to understand what it really means. It?s kind of like how Springsteen?s ?Born in the U.S.A.? often gets misinterpreted by some as being ?rah-rah America? when if you actually listen to the song?s verses it?s about America turning its back on veterans once they returned home from fighting the war in Vietnam, a song The Boss also brought out for The Concert for Valor on Tuesday night.
?Fortunate Son? was effectively a voice for soldiers fighting for their country who may not have wanted to but didn?t have any other choice because of the draft at the time in this country. This is why it?s not anti-American and why it?s more than acceptable to play at events honoring vets.
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Their banning anti-war stickers and shirts and allowing "Fortunate Son" to be played doesn't make that much sense.
Also, Metallica didn't play "One?"
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Woody Guthrie was a big supporter of free speech, right?
Bravo to Hutch for stating opinions in this thread that many people in America would disagree with. The great thing in America is that you can express your opinion, even if it?s an unpopular one, right? And as long as you?re not threatening anyone, you?re allowed to state it.
That?s actually not true in some places. In Afghanistan, if you point out flaws in Islam, you face blasphemy charges.
http://www.rferl.org/content/afghan-blasphemy-case-an-early-test-for-new-government/26654627.html
In Saudi Arabia, if you point out the flaws in Islam, you get a 10 year jail sentence and 1,000 lashes.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27318400
In Pakistan, they kill you.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/11/26/pakistan-blasphemy/19019805/
In Indonesia, they jail you.
http://www.ecumenicalnews.com/article/report-shows-a-surge-in-indonesian-convictions-for-blasphemy-27380
Even in secular Turkey, they'll imprison you.
http://www.crossmap.com/news/noted-convert-from-islam-in-egypt-wins-partial-appeal-but-remains-in-jail-15293
In fact, blasphemy laws exist in every Muslim-majority country ( but only is the blasphemy is against Islam.)
On the 9:30 Forum, they call you a "bigot", then ban you from posting. (hopefully this public library IP address won't receive a ban).
I read this comment on another forum, and completely agree?
The ability to criticize religion is at the core of freedom of speech, and no religion is exempt, much to the chagrin of scientologists and muslims everywhere. They can practice whatever religion they want, that's freedom of religion, including things like salt water and fresh water cannot be mixed together or that meteors that fall from the sky are signs from God, but others (should, in America) have a right to criticize and even mock them for those beliefs. And when those beliefs become downright dangerous, like killing those who decide to leave the religion, or killing women who have been raped as well as killing women who protect themselves from rapists, criticizing such practices becomes not just tolerable, but necessary.
Some liberals are arguably no longer liberal. Some have become totalitarian in their mindset. They want to control others and use censorship as a tool for control. Hopefully there are still true liberals out there who believe that protecting individual freedoms is more important than protecting the rights of groups whose beliefs seek to stifle those freedoms.
For a much more interesting take on this than I could possible write, please read this essay by Rizvi Ali.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/the-phobia-of-being-calle_b_5215218.html
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Bravo to Hutch for stating opinions
Three posts in and I'm already telling you to get the hell out of here.
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Ghost of James Ford? 8)
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I'm going to check the email used to sign up for the account thru common websites this afternoon if I have time.
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space freely . . . genius name.
(http://rubmint.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/3bddc_funny-pictures-dryer-cat-approves.jpg)
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Je suis Charlie.
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I'm going to check the email used to sign up for the account thru common websites this afternoon if I have time.
You don't need to go all Miss Marple to know that it's James Ford (Henry Dark, Charlie Nakatestes, Rhett Miller, The Black Nerd, etc...). He can never stay away longer than a few weeks. He's been home honing his hate and looking for an outlet for it. I give it ten days before he gets banned yet again.
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Great article.
Meet the honor brigade, an organized campaign to silence debate on Islam
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html
(Wish You Were Here is easily the best Pink Floyd album.)
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Great article.
Meet the honor brigade, an organized campaign to silence debate on Islam
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html
(Wish You Were Here is easily the best Pink Floyd album.)
You sir, are obsessed . . . with knowing too much, about pink floyd.
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This article pretty much nails it:
The left has Islam all wrong: Bill Maher, Pamela Geller and the reality progressives must face
Confusion over Islam and how to relate to it imperils free speech, without which no secular republic can survive
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/10/the_left_has_islam_all_wrong_bill_maher_pamela_geller_and_the_reality_progressives_must_face/
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This article pretty much nails it:
The left has Islam all wrong: Bill Maher, Pamela Geller and the reality progressives must face
Confusion over Islam and how to relate to it imperils free speech, without which no secular republic can survive
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/10/the_left_has_islam_all_wrong_bill_maher_pamela_geller_and_the_reality_progressives_must_face/
Hey, bearman, remember the other day when you were all "hey, lets hear what Space Freely has to say more often" and I posted a .gif of stink faces from The Hills?
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This article pretty much nails it:
The left has Islam all wrong: Bill Maher, Pamela Geller and the reality progressives must face
Confusion over Islam and how to relate to it imperils free speech, without which no secular republic can survive
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/10/the_left_has_islam_all_wrong_bill_maher_pamela_geller_and_the_reality_progressives_must_face/
Hey, bearman, remember the other day when you were all "hey, lets hear what Space Freely has to say more often" and I posted a .gif of stink faces from The Hills?
Did you read the article? My your quick reply, I suspect that you did not. If not, you really should just stick to being the asshole who mocks other board member's body odors. ;)
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Did you read the article?
No, I did not because PEOPLE'S RANTS ABOUT RELIGION SHOULD NOT BE BOARD FODDER, YOU FUCKING TOOL.
IT'S A GODDAMN MUSIC VENUE'S MESSAGEBOARD; HOW DON'T YOU GET THIS BY NOW? FUCK OFF AND DIE.
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Can we over react a little less please
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Can we over react a little less please
OK MAYBE
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Kosmo. Kick julian the fuck off this board. Enough is enough. Things are about to get real fucking ugly and real, if you don't. I'm fucking done. Real, fucking, ugly.
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Kosmo. Kick julian the fuck off this board. Enough is enough. Things are about to get real fucking ugly and real, if you don't. I'm fucking done. Real, fucking, ugly.
One person works his hatred of Islam into every conversation and another person tells him to stop doing it because the board has proven over time we do not want to debate the merits of religions and the second person is the problem? Get a clue, dude.
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You . . . Versus . . . Me. You,ll lose.
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The streets, bitch.
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You . . . Versus . . . Me. You,ll lose.
I don't have a problem with you. I am on record every time you bring a potential beef between the two of us up that I have a standing rule against fucking with crazy.
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Actually, I was just trying to make this thread more interesting. It was, boring me. I blame, hutch.
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I blame, hutch.
Now that's the first reasonable thing I've heard all day. Rhett, you want in on blaming Hutch for all this? Stupid Hutch.
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I blame, hutch.
Now that's the first reasonable thing I've heard all day. Rhett, you want in on blaming Hutch for all this? Stupid Hutch.
I'll get behind that!
Off with Hutch's head!
(http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1337640799/184/6964184.jpg)
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(http://33.media.tumblr.com/0f618177c9c54949275aa4762303a2a8/tumblr_inline_mls1o7zCiY1qz4rgp.gif)
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Blame EvilSanta
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(http://www.churchofhalloween.com/wp-content/gallery/evil-santa-claus/evil-santa-claus-augenpulver.png)
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I blame, hutch.
Now that's the first reasonable thing I've heard all day. Rhett, you want in on blaming Hutch for all this? Stupid Hutch.
I don't have a problem with people posting rants about any ideologies, be they pro or con. Be it Conservatism, Liberalism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Atheism, Julianism, Walkyism, Star Trekism or any other ideology, it should all be fair game for criticism (or applause) in a democratic free speech world. So like I said in this thread months ago, bravo to Hutch for starting it. :)
Then again, I don't run the board.
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but we, do run the board. with out us, it would just be kosmo jerking off seth, and who wants to see that? wait . . . a minute.
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Hmmmm
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Hmmmm
(http://www.startupcell.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/7414797138_65fab34920_z.jpg)
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It's too bad the Replacements aren't scheduled to play again in the area soon, because clearly they alone can bring "harmony" to the board. It was so cute watching everyone bond over parking..
Perhaps Ride and Luna can create board harmony again...
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Fuck, the replacements.
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4xgNidbGBwI/VBJUL3y9xTI/AAAAAAAAFAk/CjOWf882Peo/s1600/ReplacementsGreenway.JPG)
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Fuck, the replacements.
I always wondered who it is they are replacing and why! Are they replacing a band of Islams maybe?
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I don't have a problem with people posting rants about any ideologies, be they pro or con. Be it Conservatism, Liberalism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Atheism, Julianism, Walkyism, Star Trekism or any other ideology, it should all be fair game for criticism (or applause) in a democratic free speech world.
You don't get enough of that on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, conservative talk forums, Xbox live, Fox News comments, or the rest of the internet?
(http://img.pandawhale.com/post-24602-This-is-not-a-democracy-Its-a-j0lv.gif)
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(http://img.pandawhale.com/post-24602-This-is-not-a-democracy-Its-a-j0lv.gif)
(http://media.giphy.com/media/rKlXCL4UzsO5O/giphy.gif)