Author Topic: Roll Call:Wilco  (Read 25020 times)

snailhook

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #135 on: June 11, 2004, 05:25:00 pm »
well said, joz. sorry for falling into the dreaded gender trap -- it's too easy to say "he" instead of "he/she".

joz

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #136 on: June 11, 2004, 05:29:00 pm »
ah, the tantrum! i had actually forgotten about that.  was it someone trying to take a picture in the front row that was yanking his chain?  i guess that constitution hall had the same effect on him as it did me.  i was ready to punch something by the time i escaped from that place.  
 
 i'm actually pretty sad that show was my first chance to see SY live.  i've been told by others that i should really make a point to see them in another, more intimate setting (or at least one where you can stand up and move around a bit). i'm anxious to hear sonic nurse too...maybe i'll buy it this weekend.

ratioci nation

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #137 on: June 11, 2004, 05:29:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by joz:
  don't forget about 'the lonely 1'...that was a pretty amazing live version of one of my fave BT tracks.
whoops, yeah I forgot that, but there are so many on that album they could have played, I would rather they skip summer teeth altogether and play several off of BT

joz

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #138 on: June 11, 2004, 05:35:00 pm »
my personal favorite is red-eyed blue but i've seen him do it a few times now.  i think i would have rather heard far, far away or say you miss me...or...i could go on and on.  btw, BT is my favorite album as well.  we may actually agree on something after all pollard!

grotty

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #139 on: June 11, 2004, 05:39:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by pollard:
   I would rather they skip summer teeth altogether and play several off of BT
Amen to that.
 
 I'd rank the records:
 
 1 Being There
 2 Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
 3 A.M.
 4 Summer Teeth (even though it contains some of my fav songs, like Via Chicago)
 5 A Ghost is Born (Probably too new to rate - but I'm SO digging "At Least That's What You Said" since seeing it live - Even though the recorded version only rocks about 1/2 as hard. I'm very thankful for free streaming.

snailhook

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #140 on: June 11, 2004, 05:44:00 pm »
Quote
I can see how you may have taken it as an insult though since your tone has generally been pretty combative. See:
 "it's too bad those of you stuck in 1999 can't take a time machine back to the summerteeth tour."
if my tone has been pretty combative, then you're pretty sensitive. i have a fairly warped, black sense of humor, and my statement wasn't trying to be combative but rather nonchalantly snippy. did i not make it clear that i would do the same thing with pavement? maybe my chronology is off, but i can't be bothered right now to go back and check the order of posts. shit gets miscontrued on the 'net anyway, so apologies if i came off as a dick.
 
   
Quote
What you're not getting is that no one on this thread (other than Rhett - who is generally pretty contrary) said that the new stuff is not good. It's been more a question of balance.
ok, cool. again, most of the vitriol is aimed at rhett and not you or people like you. although i should learn to take rhett with a grain of salt, since he often seems to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.
 
   
Quote
I'll stick by theory though until I see some proof of an A.M. purchase in 1995. There's no way you remember when you bought that unless you looked up that record's release date! So, to paraphrase..."snailhook, man, chill out"  
actually, grotty, if you know me, you'd know that i have an insane knack -- or disease -- for remembering dates of when i bought albums and when i saw shows (this includes first kisses and such so that my girlfriends don't get pissed off at my obsessive music nerddom). i remember hearing "box full of letters" and digging it enough that i went out and got the album; i was already a fan of the jayhawks and uncle tupelo. i got son volt's  trace in early 1996. and i saw wilco for the first time in february 1997 with september 67 opening, and i even have the ticket stub to prove it. how's that?
 
 EDIT: and i agree with your ranking of wilco's records, though i would switch around  a.m. and  summerteeth.

npetting

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #141 on: June 11, 2004, 09:29:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  Wasn't Jay Farrar on vox for Acuff-Rose?
 
 I wanted Casino Queen and Kingpin. But maybe those songs are all long gone.
 
 The five 6'+ guys who brought the height average up to 5'6" (except for ggw) were all standing about 6 feet in front of me, blocking my view of Tweedy's bad hair and silly suit.
 
 I did figure out the best way to avoid standing next to a smoker...find the nerdiest looking people you can, and stand next to them. And there sure were a lot of nerds at the show.
 
 The guy behind me with the gay looking gelled hair with the flip-up circa 1999 hairstyle who looked like he just dropped in from a Blink 182 concert? I knew he was going to light up.
 
   
Quote
Originally posted by nkotbie:
  Wait a minute, buddy.  You got that all wrong.   WE'RE supposed to make fun of YOU for only liking their newer, more-mainstream, more-press-attention songs.  You can be elitist for the new sound.  That's ass-backwards.
 
 Anyway, the show was a HUGE improvement over the show with Sonic Youth.  Tweedy didn't feel the need to compete, I guess.  And I don't really think the new songs were bad...at least they sounded better live than on record, I thought.  Still, why couldn't they have played Box Full of Letters or Acuff Rose?
 
   
Quote
Originally posted by joz:
 from what i've read of this morning's posts, it sounds like most of you pseudo wilco fans should have sold your tix outside or on ebay to true fans who really would have appreciated the show.
[/b]
[/b]
nice.  I was one of those 6'+ guys in front of you

npetting

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #142 on: June 11, 2004, 09:31:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by MET:
  Last night's show was ridiculously oversold.  9:30 is just as shady as any other concert promoter.
that's what you get at a SOLD OUT show. that's how it is always

Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #143 on: June 12, 2004, 08:47:00 am »
This is definitely one of the more interesting threads i have read on this board, wish they were all like this.
 
    I haven't had time to post, but thought I would sneak one in now. I find myself most in agreement with Pollard and Grotty.
 
    My Wilco fave album list goes like this:
 
    1. Being There
    2. AM
    3. Summerteeth
    4 Mermaid Ave 2
    5. Mermaid Ave 1
    6. YHF
    7. AGIB
 
    If I were to list my four Uncle Tupeolo cd's in that list, they would all be near the top, and Anodyne would be #1.
 
    While y'all may say that my comments are willfully contrary or lacking in understanding of certain genres , let me say that Sonic Youth was one of my favorite bands from 1987 through 1992.  I still have my cassette copies of Sister, Daydream Nation, Goo, and Dirty, as well as my Goo concert-shirt to prove it. Any of y'all remember SY's alter ego, Ciccone Youth?  By contrast, my alt-country collection from the late 80's consisted  entirely of a couple of Steve Earle albums.
 
    But see, my tastes have changed and evolved. I'm not listening to the same dissonant music that i was 15 years ago. Now I'm much more inclined to listen to melodious  alt-country, power pop, or indie pop. On the rare occasion that I would want to hear some dissonant music, Id be much more inclined to nostalgically listen to Sonic Youth than to Wilco's pale version. So I think it's more a function of current taste than  willful contrariness or lack of understanding of genre or lack of desire to grow with a band.
 
    And as far as seeing Wilco, I think I have y'all beat. I saw them on the AM tour at the old 9:30 Club in 1995. And again on Halloween Night in 1996, two days after the release of Being There, when they shared headlining duties with the Squirrel Nut Zippers in Raleigh, NC. That show, my favorite, was made even more memorable by the fact that all band members other than Tweedy did the entire show dressed in drag. Wasn't the prettiest sight, but was the funniest...

Darth Ed

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #144 on: June 13, 2004, 11:22:00 pm »
I'm disappointed to hear that the Cardigans are trying to make a comeback. I was really hoping to never hear from them again. I suffered through a set by the Cardigans to see Beck in 1997 at the Patriot Center. That was painful.

brennser

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #145 on: June 16, 2004, 10:15:00 am »
1st of two stories on Wilco, Billy Bragg and the making of Mermaid Avenue
 
 Creating a Woody Guthrie soundtrack
 
 By Greg Kot
 Tribune music critic
 Published June 15, 2004
 
 This week, Broadway Books is publishing Tribune music critic Greg Kot's "Wilco: Learning How To Die," which traces the Chicago-based rock band's history, including its record-company battles over the CD "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot."
 
 This is the first of two excerpts from the book, examining the period when the band collaborated with Billy Bragg on two CDs using the lyrics of folk music legend Woody Guthrie.
 
 - - -
 
 Billy Bragg first approached Jeff Tweedy and Jay Bennett about having Wilco collaborate with him on an album of Woody Guthrie's lyrics the fall of '96. Tweedy was noncommittal, but Bennett was eager. He idolized the Brit folkie, to the point of naming his old band Titanic Love Affair after a Bragg lyric. "I thought we would've been idiots not to do it," Bennett says.
 
 Tweedy shrugged. "I didn't go into it a huge Billy Bragg fan. I didn't think Wilco in a million years would've backed up Billy Bragg on a record, shared a record with him even. I felt like our approaches to music wouldn't work together."
 
 Bragg was used to having things his way, as well. But he loved Wilco's 1996 album, "Being There," for its varied musical attack. In his mind, elevated Wilco above the rest of the more one-dimensional alternative-country bands emerging in America. "With a lot of American 'roots' bands, it doesn't go back much beyond the 1950s," he says, "but Wilco gives you the feeling that they go back to the '30s and even into the last century."
 
 He figured he could entice them by proposing Dublin as a neutral site between London and Chicago to record the album. But for Tweedy, the issue was less about geography and more about content: What lyrics would be molded into songs and who would choose them?
 
 "It wasn't that appealing until it was made clear to me that we could go through the archives ourselves and pick out songs. I never would dismiss Woody Guthrie, because he's such a huge part of my musical life, but I definitely went into with the idea that the stereotype that had been projected on him was not that appealing to me anymore. The Left-leaning hobo stereotype of Woody stood in contrast to what I hoped would be true: that Woody never would have marginalized himself like that. He would have preferred reach a broad section of society than be pack-aged and sold to a tightly knit group of initiated people. I suspected there was this other Guthrie there, from stuff I'd read about him, but I didn't know for sure until I saw the archive."
 
 There Tweedy and Bennett surprised even Guthrie's daughter Nora with some of the lyrics to which they gravitated. " 'California Stars' didn't strike me as one of my father's great songs," she says. "It's not a song I would have picked out. It didn't strike me until I heard the music with it, and that was a good lesson for me. Jeff has an incredible musical way of bringing out the meaning of a lyric. He went way beyond what I thought was possible."
 
 "After seeing some of those songs, my take on him was that he's more alive than ever," Tweedy says. "And that it would be a disservice to him to keep hammering home certain aspects of his social concerns, or whatever politics he had, as opposed to affirming the idiosyncrasies that made him a major American artist. I'm not into Woody the icon. I'm into Woody the freak weirdo."
 
 In contrast, Bragg embraced Guthrie's politics. He insisted that the pro-union "I Guess I Planted" and the Mussolini-bashing "All You Fascists" be recorded, while Tweedy rolled his eyes.
 
 Despite the head-butting, the music flowed when Wilco and Bragg first convened Dec. 12-18, 1997, at King Size studio in Chicago, as a warm-up for the Dublin session in mid-January. These two sessions would yield most of the songs that would appear on "Mermaid Avenue" I and II, released in 1998 and 2000, respectively. The musicians huddled around copies of Guthrie's handwritten lyrics spread on the floor, instruments in their laps. "It was a bit like going to the dressing-up trunk as kids and seeing who we wanted to be that day," Bragg says.
 
 Bennett banged out the three chords for "California Stars" in his girlfriend's kitchen so quickly he was sure he'd lifted them off Springsteen's "Nebraska" or some other cherished album. When Tweedy heard the demo, he did some tweaking; he accelerated the tempo and took the melody up an octave. In the studio, Wilco knocked out the finished version in two takes.
 
 "Hoodoo Voodoo" -- a nonsensical children's song that sounds like it could've been a precursor for both Dr. Seuss' "The Cat in the Hat" and Dylan's "Subterranean Homesick Blues" -- was transformed when bassist John Stirratt and drummer Ken Coomer began exaggerating the groove, goofing on its herky-jerky possibilities. Tweedy jumped on the microphone while Bennett rocked the organ and Bragg joined in on electric guitar, and a song that had been dead in the water suddenly sailed.
 
 The crowning moment -- not just of the Guthrie sessions at King Size, but of this incarnation of Wilco -- arrived on the final day, after Bragg had already flown back to London for the holidays. "One by One" emerged like a mirage, Bob Egan's pedal-steel purring alongside Bennett's piano, while Stirratt's bass danced slowly with Coomer's mesmerizing drums. Subdued and jazzy, Coomer evoked the great Tennessee session drummer Kenney Buttrey, who played with Bob Dylan on "Nashville Skyline." Tweedy sounded like he was singing with his chin on Guthrie's stooped shoulder, his tone unhurried and confiding as night closed in. The song didn't build. Instead it receded like a wave retreating from the shore, until two-thirds of the way in, it was just barely a whisper of foam: "One by one the days are slipping up behind you." Guthrie's lyric is from the perspective of a man much older than his 27 years at the time. Tweedy was only a few months past his 30th birthday when he stepped to the microphone on that December evening.
 
 "I tried to match Jeff's vocal, to really listen to it as I was playing," Bob Egan says. "I thought it was an original, that it was autobiographical, because Jeff sang it with such conviction. Afterward, I'm saying, `Dude, I'm sorry, I didn't know that was going on in your life.' And he says, `That was written by Woody Guthrie in 1939.'"
 
 It was to be the final Wilco song Egan would play on. He had dropped into the Chicago sessions on the last day, invited as an afterthought, not even aware that the band was working on an album of Guthrie songs. On tour, his over-amplified pedal-steel playing had become an irritant to the other band members; it got so bad that roadie Jonathan Parker was instructed to sabotage Egan's volume knob, so that he couldn't crank it up. Tweedy would occasionally introduce him on stage with zingers that were less than good-natured: "This is Bob Egan. He used to be in Wilco." The other band members were rankled that Egan was making $1,350 a week to their $800; he'd negotiated a higher salary because he had left his Chicago music store behind. When the tour ended, hints were dropped that his services were no longer required, but no one bothered to come out and say it directly. Then Wilco manager Tony Margherita bought him a plane ticket to Dublin in January. There he was greeted by Wilco's leader at the door of the condo where the band was staying.
 
 Egan was crestfallen by his greeting, such as it was. "The first thing he says to me is, `I don't know why you're here. There is nothing for you to play on. The record's done.' I was like, `Oh, thanks. How are ya?' So I hung out in the studio with my game face on, and I think Billy felt sorry for me and asked me to play on a couple of his things. The whole experience was one of the harder things I've ever had to do musically."
 
 Ironically, Egan ended up in Bragg's touring band that summer, playing many of the "Mermaid Avenue" songs that Wilco had performed in the studio. He also served at least one other role in Dublin: as a drinking buddy for Wilco's bass player. Stirratt and Bennett had been inseparable during the "Being There" tour, egging each other on to greater heights of inebriation and onstage frivolity. But Bennett had three root-canal procedures and had his wisdom teeth pulled while in Chicago, and was forced to swear off the booze. He didn't pick up another drink for four years. "I'm so glad Bob came over because I had someone to drink with," Stirratt says with a laugh. "Everyone else was into prescription drugs." As Bennett adjusted to alcohol-free life, Tweedy's migraines were becoming a daily impediment to emotional clarity. A daily diet of pain killers, anti-depressants and homesickness clouded Dublin.
 
 "I look back on that now and I'm really surprised I hung with it all," Stirratt says. "Jeff looked exhausted and Jay wasn't much better off; they had their arms around each other on the plane over to Dublin. They were bonding over their misery. That was the start of the real weirdness in the band, a breaking point."
 
 ----------
 
 Wednesday: A sublime collaboration ends in trans-Atlantic screaming matches.

brennser

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #146 on: June 16, 2004, 10:16:00 am »
second excerpt from Wilco book
 
 Who's the boss?
 When Tweedy, Bragg fought to control Guthrie soundtrack
 
 Greg Kot, Tribune music critic
 Published June 16, 2004
 
 The arrival of Woody Guthrie's daughter Nora during the third week of the "Mermaid Avenue" sessions brightened Dublin for everyone, and was the catalyst for one last moment of spontaneous beauty. She had brought additional songs from her late father's archive, including one called "Another Man's Done Gone." It consists of 11 lines, every one precious. They're the words of a dying man clinging to his last hope for immortality: "I don't know, I may go down or up or anywhere/But I feel like this scribbling might stay."
 
 Billy Bragg shaped three chords on guitar, and showed them to Jay Bennett, who was tinkering on a grand piano. When Bennett went to work in earnest on the 88's, the chords expanded, and the skeleton of a song emerged. Jeff Tweedy was napping on a couch behind a drawn curtain, and arose bleary eyed but curious. Standing at the piano, he briefly studied the lyrics and began singing. Out of his lips came a sound as forlorn as Richard Manuel's ghost, a distant echo of the Band's "Unfaithful Servant." In 90 seconds the song drifted into the room and then vanished, with only silence and tears to mark its passage. Nora Guthrie's eyes glimmered as Jeff Tweedy sang her father's words through her headphones. Engineer Jerry Boys, a veteran of recording sessions since the Beatles, dropped his head. Bragg felt the hairs on the back of his neck rise.
 
 "Tweedy sang it," Jonathan Parker says, "and brought grown men to tears."
 
 Billy Bragg felt it too. "It was a moment, and then it was done. A true collaboration. Nora found the lyrics, I had written the music, Jay played it, and Jeff sang it in a way that was beyond personal. It's a song of despair, a man facing death wondering if anyone will remember him if he's gone. And that performance was the four of us sending a clear message out to Woody that his scribbling was immortal."
 
 But for Bennett, the performance brings back sour memories. "Billy had the chords to James Taylor's `Fire and Rain.' Real simple chords. I said, `Hey, Bill, this might be cooler with something other than D, G, C. So I threw some Burt Bacharach five-note, compound chords in there, B-minor 7 with F-sharp on the bottom. Made it prettier, basically. The song was getting too high for him to sing comfortably. So Jeff came out and sang it. Billy got us about one-third of the way there, I wrote the chords, and Jeff came up with the vocal melody. But when the album came out, it was credited only to Billy."
 
 Even more significant differences developed over how Bragg and Wilco wanted the album mixed.
 
 "I enjoyed working with Billy," Tweedy insists. "He had a good sense of humor, the ability to laugh at himself. And at the same time, I was always suspect of him, as being somewhat full of [expletive]. I never did understand why we were recording songs about brown-shirted fascists clobbering people in the streets of Italy during the '30s. He could get really angry if we pushed the wrong buttons, and Wilco as a whole was pretty adept at pushing those buttons. For Jay, it was an atrocity that some of Billy's mixes would make the record. Instead of balancing instruments and allowing it to be an environment where it sounds like a singer and a band, his was very much a vocal solo mix, with a very far way, easily palatable band. So squishy and soft and perfect. To me, the recordings we did for Volume 1 were very raw, almost crappy sounding. Whereas his didn't sound crappy, they sounded chintzy. This faux glitz was on them, and to us that was antithetical to the idea behind the record."
 
 Bennett insisted that Wilco have a crack at mixing Bragg's songs. Tweedy placed a trans-Atlantic call to London. Bragg heard Tweedy out, and then offered a succinct response: "You make your record, and I'll make mine, [expletive]."
 
 "That's the point, Billy. It's not your record," Tweedy said. "It's not our record. It's Woody Guthrie's record. All I'm saying is if we had a different set of ears on the record it would sound more coherent."
 
 Bragg backed down, and sent copies of his masters to Chicago. Bennett remixed them, but Bragg decided to stick with his mixes instead.
 
 "I like to be there for the mixing and everything else," Bragg says. "I don't want to hand it off to someone else. I hate that. I think neither one of us were used to working in a situation where we surrendered any control. So it did lead to a bit of sulking, trans-Atlantic sulking on everyone's part, but not to the extent where we fell out completely. They could have easily said, `Let's just leave it at that, because we can't start working with you anymore you big-nose bastard, you're so rotten to us.' They would have been quite within their rights to say something along those lines, but instead they agreed to do another album."
 
 "Mermaid Avenue" would go on to sell 277,000 copies -- outselling all of Bragg's previous albums combined in North America, and nearly equaling Wilco's sales for its acclaimed 1996 album, "Being There." It also earned a Grammy nomination for best contemporary folk album, losing out to Lucinda Williams' "Car Wheels on a Gravel Road." (The band was quickly reminded it didn't belong at the glitzy Los Angeles ceremony for the Grammys when Tweedy stood in the aisle with a handful of programs while he waited for his bandmates, and Sean "Puffy" Combs mistook him for an usher.) The reviews were the best of either artist's career. Even longtime Uncle Tupelo and Wilco skeptics were won over: "This time you got it right," Greil Marcus raved in a four-star Rolling Stone review. "While the words are wonderful and unexpected ... it's the music, especially Wilco's music, that transfigures the enterprise," Robert Christgau declared in the Village Voice, where the self-appointed dean of American rock critics handed out a rare "A."
 
 But Wilco and Bragg could never agree on a tour, and their joint success was short-lived. Quarrels ensued over everything from paying union fees for guest musicians to festival concert commitments, or the lack thereof. Because the two camps couldn't agree on doing anything together to support the album, conflicts cropped up over tour and promotional expenses, since these would count against future royalties that Bragg and Wilco were to share. Bragg's manager, Peter Jenner, and Wilco's, Tony Margherita, tussled daily in trans-Atlantic screaming matches.
 
 "There were three or four months there that every day Tony was throwing his phone," Wilco roadie Jonathan Parker says, "and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. I thought he was going to lose it."
 
 Jeff Tweedy has no regrets about the "Mermaid Avenue" tour that wasn't. "We don't have a killer instinct as a band. We never felt like we had to capitalize on something, to really push it home. The response `Mermaid Avenue' generated was gratifying. It was the most attention Billy had gotten in the press in a long time, especially in the United States, and he was gung-ho, booking mutual shows for us without telling us about it. Then he threatened to sue us when we wouldn't come and play with him, and he had to hire a band. I felt like I was watching a guy shoot himself in the foot. They had it in their heads all along that it was their record, and rightfully so, because Billy was asked to do it first, but they wanted to believe that the success of it had nothing to do with us, that the relationship hadn't evolved at all during the making of it, that we were Billy's backup band. We were in the midst of recording `Summerteeth,' but we were willing to set aside a few weeks to tour with him. It ended up completely backfiring."
 
 Billy Bragg got over it. The artistic accomplishment of the two "Mermaid Avenue" albums, rather than the acrimony that arose in their wake, is how the singer-songwriter prefers to remember the occasion. "That would be my only regret in the entire project. It wasn't really anyone's fault, it's just that I was between albums and they were in the middle of making one, and they were also at the beginning of their career. It was crucial for them to keep focused on what they were doing. So I put a band together with [ex-Wilco pedal steel player] Bob Egan, put `California Stars' in my set, and just got on with it."
 
 ----------
 
 Copyright (copyright) 2004 by Greg Kot, From the book "Wilco: Learning How to Die" by Greg Kot, published by Broadway Books, a division of Random House Inc. Reprinted with permission. Read more at www.wilcobook.com.

kosmo vinyl

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Re: Roll Call:Wilco
« Reply #147 on: June 16, 2004, 10:21:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by brennser:
 
 
 Bragg was used to having things his way, as well. But he loved Wilco's 1996 album, "Being There," for its varied musical attack. In his mind, elevated Wilco above the rest of the more one-dimensional alternative-country bands emerging in America. "With a lot of American 'roots' bands, it doesn't go back much beyond the 1950s," he says, "but Wilco gives you the feeling that they go back to the '30s and even into the last century."
 
 
i suspect there is once less computer monitor in the world right now   :D
T.Rex